I've always liked the looks of the Swedish K SMG.  It has a look that the SW76, or the Stens, or even the MP40's just don't have in my opinion.

There's a full auto one that Rubin is selling, that looks in good shape, and I'd assume runs fine as he's got a good reputation.

https://dealernfa.com/shop/swedish-k-wilson-excellent-l142/

Now this one is a called a Wilson - is that who made it from parts, as since the factory ones were made overseas, I assume they could not be imported, is that correct?

For those who have them, what's the history of them - made from parts kits imported over, with a USA made tube, then assembled and registered?

Are spare parts available?   Seems like Sarco and Gunparts USA have odds and ends available.  Have you ever had problems finding the parts you need for repair?

Did anyone ever make a semi version of this?

Thanks,

GarandThumbs brother did a recent video about.  Silly but informative.

Saw one at the SMG shoot at Knob Creek years ago and fell in love.

The Swedish K is "THE SMG" in the SF community....sure the MP5 is a much better platform..the M45B is what my forebears carried in MACV-SOG


Wilson is the USA made tube and the gun will run like a raped ape.  If you got the cash, buy it!


18Z50...but always an 18 Bravo at heart!

That particular gun is a US made "tube gun".  A parts kit assembled on a US receiver tube. Magazines are still somewhat available.  Parts kits have dried up.

They have a reputation of being very reliable, but heavy.

Wilson built slot of tube SMGs pre-1986.

I got to shoot the Swedish K when I was stationed at Ft Devens in 1991. It is definitely a nice SMG. I am also partial to the M3A1 Grease Gun too.

Ft Devens.  H/112th  1987-1990

The Swede K is a fantastic SMG. It’s easily my second favorite to shoot after the MP5. I need to buy one.

Apex has mags that will fit it for $180/10.

Suomi Stick Mags

Is 29 about the going rate for them now?  You don't see too many for sale, and Rubin, while not the cheapest, has a reputation I've seen for good service.

Ha, 29 grand for a gun someone could make now for about 700 bucks if they had demand for them, ahh the dubious, voice voted, Hughes Amendment.

Shot some friends Swedish K and S&W 76 back to back at Knob Creek and came away preferring the S&W. I think it was easier to hold on target due to slightly faster rate of fire.

Plus side of the Swede is that some can use the Suomi drums but the Smiths can’t. I personally think the Smith looks a little better to in that it looks like a more developed gun than the Sten-like appearance of the Swede.

The story on the S&W was that we were using the Swedish K in Vietnam and the Swedes didn’t like it do to their professed neutrality so Smith was called upon to make a US copy.

From NFA price tracker, for what it’s worth. Transferable anything seems to have gone crazy at auctions lately
Attached File

Swedish K's are nice reliable guns but that seems quite high for a tube gun.

If you are set on a tube gun, Ruben has the (IMO) Cadillac of tube guns for less money.  That would be the Sterling for 23,995.

If you are getting into a first machine gun, I would say that the Uzi is a much better choice.  They are absolutely reliable and parts are cheap and available.

Good info about Swed K price offsets, thanks.

29 does seem high, even now for it, though it's one of the few ones I've seen for sale.  Rubin's AR's are only a few thousand bucks more, with lots more versatility, and unlimited spare parts.

$29k is high for a tube gun Swedish K. But you don’t see them come available very frequently.

The Sterling is very nice, but the Swede K is better IMO due to the Suomi drum and coffin mags.

The Uzi is a better and less expensive option than both the Swede K and Sterling due to better parts availability, easier to mount an optic, easier to suppress, easy to change the ROF, and it also has drum mags.

If choosing between buying the Uzi and the Swede K or Sterling, not owning any of the three, I’d choose the Uzi every time for the reasons stated above. In my case, I already own a Vector full-size UZI SMG, so the Swede K would be to round out my collection.

As always ymmv, and want comes down to preference moreso than practicality.

I would agree that $29K for a tube "Swedish K" is pretty high.  However its Ruben and there are not a lot of transferable Ks out there so somebody will eventually pay him his asking price for it.

A couple things to note about most transferable Swedish K's.  Virtually all of the transferable guns are what are known as "tube" guns, where the actual machinegun receiver was made by a US based manufacturer like the Wilson gun above which was then assembled with an imported parts kit.  Wilson was one of the more prolific Swedish K receiver manufacturers and all of the Wilson receivers I have seen are not stamped like a real Swedish K receiver would have been made.

A real Swedish K receivers is a die stamped and bent into shape very similar to how an HK MP5 receiver is made.   The round cylindrical "tube" portion that contains the bolt carrier group as well as the lower channel that contains the fire control group in a factory correct example should all be one piece of stamped steel.   All of the the Wilson receivers I have ever seen (including the one Ruben has for sale) are made from two parts.  Wilson took a standard round tube and then welded a square "U" shaped channel to the bottom of the tube.  If you look at the zoomed in pictures on Rubens site you can see the weld seam between these two parts.  

Some guns over time have had the weld cleaned up to hide the fact the receiver is made from two pieces of tube and square channel stock but this one its still pretty obvious as the weld area  has that "line of caulk" like join seam between the tube and channel components.

Real pre-sample picture on top with the crisp bent/stamped receiver seam vs  and the welded construction Wilson receiver on the bottom.

Attached File


Another aspect is that many of the transferable Swedish Ks were made with Egyptian Port Said parts kits.  So on top of the fact that the receiver is US made and not a proper stamped receiver construction, the internals, barrel, and/or furniture may not be Swedish but Egyptian.

I don't mention all of this to belittle the transferable Ks out there and I am glad that folks like Wilson had the forethought and ingenuity to come up with a solution to add to the transferable MG pool.   However, just  beware of exactly what you are buying for $29,000 and understand that the limitations of many transferable tube K builds.

Personally when I went through all of this decision on what type of tube K variant to pursue a couple years back and was looking at a tube based Swedish K, a factory Smith 76, or MK760 smith clone I ultimately came to the decision that I wanted a Smith & Wesson 76.

There are pros and cons to each variant.

Swedish K

Pros:
- Its the most iconic of the bunch
- Ability to accept unmodified  drums and coffin mags.
- Improved iron sights compared to the more rudimentary sights on the Smith
- More robust folding stock lockup arrangement
- Slower cyclic rate by about 100 rpm vs the Smith

Cons:
- Most transferable Swedish K may have limited to no actual Swedish Carl Gustaf parts in them.
- The receiver is going to be a US clone based build and most are a welded multi part arrangement with varying degrees of cosmetic success.
- No selector as they are full auto only
- While the K sights are better than the Smith sights the K sight placement is farther forward from the shooters eye.
- The K wooden block style grip isn't as ergonomic as the molded 76 grip.
- Slower cyclic rate (subjective depending upon the shooters ROF preference)

Smith 76

Pros:
- Complete US factory made C&R machinegun
- Selector is available for semi and full auto fire.
- Lower cost at about half that of a Swedish K tube gun

Cons
- Cant take unmodified drums or coffin mags.
- Sights are not a nice
- Stock latch lockup arrangement isn't as robust
- Slightly higher cyclic rate (again subjective user preference)

The MK760 the pros/cons are similar as the Smith 76 but add in a notorious heap of build quality and reliability issues that may need to be sorted out and a reputation to match in exchange for saving 1/3rd over a real Smith 76

Overall both the factory Smith 76 and well put together tube based Ks are very reliable subguns and are quite fun and enjoyable to shoot.  (I personally prefer my Smith over my Uzi)

Ultimately for me I found it hard to justify the almost 2X cost delta for what is essentially a clone Swedish K that might not have much of any real Swedish Carl Gustaf parts in it vs. a US factory made C&R Smith 76. I have shot both and to me the only real significant advantage of the K between the two is the removable magwell on the K which allow it to take unmodified drums and coffin mags. However,  if you really want drums there are Smith 76 Suomi based drums out there by C&S as well as  few others.  I am not a huge drum mag aficionado so its not a big selling point for me personally.  The stock locking latch is better but I have never had any issues with my Smith stock and the K sights while better are still just pretty basic iron sights.

That said if you understand the build limitation of the transferable Swedish Ks, have $29K burning a hole in your pocket, and gotta have the OG mean green SMG than by all means pick up that Wilson K from Ruben.

Good luck with whatever you decide and hopefully my ramblings here helped.

My dad obtained one to carry in his helicopter in VN. Don’t know if it was a real Gustav, a Smith or something else. He said he couldn’t get a rifle from the army. Just a .38 revolver. His first choice was an M1 carbine but he couldn't find anyone who would part with one. Then he wanted a shotgun but what he could find was much too long. Someone got him the K and he didn’t want the 9mm bit grew to love it.

Not helpful to the OP, I just like that the thread reminded me of that story.

Knob Creek in the early 2000's someone was selling a Vietnam bring back Swedish K that was a pre-68 amnesty registered gun that a helicopter pilot brought back.  I know the guy that bought it but I don't think I've ever seen him bring it out to shoot.  Probably too rare for him to play with.

Great info, thanks.

I concur on the price guide being off especially as auction prices have been insane!

It gives a frame of reference though as it is supposedly based on actual completed sales. Take it with a grain, or chunk of salt but also I don’t look at auction prices as normal market value.

Here is a Wilson tube build that sold at Morphy’s in Nov ‘21 for $25K including buyers premium. So who knows?

One factor in comparing the Swedish K/Port Said to the S&W76 is the trigger. The Swedish K trigger is great. The S&W76 trigger really stinks.

The OEM Smith 76 trigger is not good even compared to open bolt subgun standards....which as a firearm category are pretty low to start with.

Unfortunately the way the selective Smith fire control group is designed with a both a coil sear spring and trigger leaf spring in combination, plus the lack of mechanical advantage of the trigger transfer bar arrangement it makes for a not so great stock trigger.  You know its not a good trigger when first time shooters say "how do I take it off safe" and you explain it is off safe and they just need to man up and pull the trigger harder.

My gun was no different in the trigger challenge department and I did some cursory searching and came across a post from somebody years ago who sent their Smith 76 trigger group to Bill Springfield who turned the  ~15lbs OEM Smith  trigger into a nice ~5lbs trigger pull.  One of the posters comments was that he knew Bill replaced the sear coil spring because Bill returned the owners OEM Smith sear spring to him in addition to the reworked trigger group.

That got me thinking and I went through my spare box-o-springs and found one that was very close to the same dimension (O.D./I.D./O.A.L.) as the OEM sear spring but the wire diameter was slightly smaller.  Its been a year or more so I don't recall the exact details, but this replacement spring was maybe 2/3rd to 3/4 the compression strength of the OEM sear spring.

I decided what the hell and swapped it out and the trigger pull weight on my gun dropped significantly.    Its certainly not the 5lbs and super smooth results like that reported Bill Springfield  tuned gun but its right on par now with many of my other open bolt subguns.  I don't doubt that it could be further improved polishing engagement surfaces or messing with the riveted in trigger leaf spring, etc.  However, I didn't want to monkey with any of the difficult to replace OEM fire control group parts and was really happy with a 5 minute free spring swap that was also completely reversible.   As an ancillary benefit there also isn't as much stress on the transfer bar now so hopefully it will reduce the commonly reported wear seen on the trigger bar engagement nose.

I have not had any issues like doubles on semi, slow sear engagement on trigger return, runaways on auto, usual sear wear, etc. over the past year or so.   However, I am also under no illusion that the gun is as military usage and/or drop "safe" as it was with that stronger OEM sear spring.  Given this is a 50 year old open bolt subgun and range toy only to me,  mags never go into the gun without it pointing downrange on a hot line.    I am not personally super concerned about the reduced power sear spring from a safety standpoint but it is something to consider if you go down this path and you use your Smith for activities outside of controlled range use like hog hunting, etc.  Just make sure your gun still is reliable and doesn't have sear to bolt engagement issues in the event you pick too weak of a replacement sear spring.

Smith 76 trigger work can apparently be professionally done by Bill Springfield with probably permanent mods to your FCG parts, or you can buy a couple reduced power spring of the roughly the correct size from McMaster, etc. and swap them around to find one that works for you.  

Just food for thought for Smith 76 owners if you want to quickly (and reversibly) improve the trigger pull via a spring swap assuming you are comfortable taking the gun apart. As always YMMV.

Personal preference certainly counts for a lot. Try to shoot various models before you buy.  
The Swedish K is one of my all time favorites to shoot. I sold my Uzi and MP 40.
I would not hesitate to buy one that was made with Port Said parts. In my experience they are interchangeable.

There is a LOT of Swedish K info and pictures in the S&W76 Book from Smallarmsreview.com
Their website seems to have been down but you can find them on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0996521844?tag=arfcom00-20

That looks EXACTLY like the one I passed on a few years ago.
I was waiting for an authentic one to show up.
What a moron !

But for that kind of money you can get a UZI or stretch to the best value; M16 if its your only MG.

A few "real" original C&R Swedish K subguns were sold at an auction (RIA or Morphys I think) There was an early blued "A" model and a Green painted B model, one went for 65k the other one 67k.  Both were out of the same collection.
Original transferable examples are pretty rare and obviously expensive. There are a few Pre-May dealer samples. I bought one for 11k a few years ago.

In case anybody is interested in how the Wilson Swedish K receivers were made.   Here is a rare unbuilt receiver for sale and you can see how its made out of of two pieces of tubing (one round and one square) which are then welded together to form the receiver "shape" that on a traditional Swedish K or Port SAID would be a single stamping which is then bent/folded to make the receiver.

https://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27839-wts-e-form-wilson-arms-swedish-k-receiver/#comment-90208

Metal tube in the white, with numbers engraved on side.  $25,000 - Firm!

That’s a crazy number considering that there are no parts kits anywhere.

The open bolt design would allow water to quickly drain from the barrel when coming out of the water. Those silly Swedes didn’t like their gun being used in Vietnam. That lead to the SW76 being made.

I own a full auto UZI it’s a great sub gun and fun to shoot. and I had a chance to shoot the Swedish K and wow it was so smooth but guess what I wouldn’t trade for it call me crazy.

Swedish K and S&W 76 comparison article

http://archive.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1887

Interesting comments in that article about the ROF. I’ve never shot either. Is the S&W that much less controllable? I thought some folks liked the faster ROF.

I personally prefer the slightly faster ROF of the MP5 and Smith76 over the slower ROFs of the Uzi, MP40, and Swedish K.

At the end of the day both the Smith76 and Swedish K are both 8 to 9lbs 9mm subgun with ROF in the ~600 to ~700rpm range so both are honestly really easy to shoot.

The K has a ROF closer to a full size Uzi and the Smith76 has a ROF more like a full size Uzi with a thin 0.5" buffer in the back of the receiver to speed it up ~100rpm.

Here is a video of a guy shooting them at the same time so you can hear the cyclic rate difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfsDa2XnRus

He does a couple complete mag dumps and you hear the Smith run the mag dry a head of the K due to its slightly faster ROF but both are really pretty controllable.  Its not like one has significantly greater muzzle climb than the other when shooting them side by side at the same time. Not to mention trying to shoot them both with one hand / underhanded like that is clearly not the best option for controlling the muzzle climb so any differences are probably going to be exaggerated vs. using two hands and the stock properly.

Do that same test and replace one of the two with a M11 or Micro Uzi and there is a good chance the guy launches rounds into the sky (or his own head) by the end of the mag.

Great answer, thanks!

I've only used a factory gun (pre-sample). Fantastic trigger, fantastic rof, butter smooth, great mags, great history...I *love* the K, but not at that price. Yeesh.  You could get an Uzi and a sten, and a lifetime of spare parts.

I was so stupid to sell my 76 while waiting for a K to come along.
K's have become stupid priced. Had a chance at a minty US tube gun for $14K but wanted an original. Like that was going to happen.

A friend of mine has a MK760 he had Accurate Ordnance rework and integrally suppress. It actually ran really well, but no way I’d give what they go for these days…

know anyone that might be interested? They appear to be auctioning off seltect fire Uzi's, Swedish K's and a M-14s

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=2&acctid=23416
https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=2&acctid=23416
https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=9&acctid=23416

My "K" was built on a Wilson tube, but it was advertised as being the most accurately-marked guns outside of a factory "K." Mine has the Swedish coat of arms on the top of the receiver. Got it in the early 90's after seeing an ad in the old Shotgun News.

I have a mix of Swedish and Port Said mags along with drums and coffin mags. I also have a sub-caliber training barrel designed for use with the wood-tipped practice ammo and a factory mag loader.

Here it is being shot recently by my grandson.

Attached File

Very nice.  The K just has a classic 60's look in a way I don't find on the very similar but not quite the same SW76.

Someone on the General board was talking about making a run of semi K's with a 16" barrel that stuck out from the guard, so it would be an easy cut job for an SMG.  Sadly it didn't seem to happen, as I'd gladly plunk down 1500 or 2000 for one.