If I go black powder cartridge the single action army, or some other out of the box cartridge gun would be the way I go.  If for no other reason than cost.  I can understand why people paid to have their guns converted as the technology changed.  They already owned the guns, and could probably have it done cheaper than buying a new cartridge firearm.

But for us, I think it's an either or.  You either want to shoot a cap and ball gun, or you want to shoot a cartridge gun.  In my opinion, there are better out of the box options available than converting.   I do like the look of the old cap and ball guns, so I guess I can understand why someone might want to do a Kirst cartridge Konverter.

But the all in cost makes it fairly expensive compared to the price of these guns.

I agree - that's why I left my Remington 1858 cap-and-ball and bought a Uberti SAA for cartridge-shooting.

I will say that the cartridge-converted cap-and-ball guns are handy from the perspective that they can be both with a simple cylinder swap - which is very handy if you want to get both experiences (percussion cap and metallic cartridge) all in the same gun. Uberti's factory conversion 1858 would be a great choice for that.

I know Uberti offers a cartridge cylinder that has to be removed to load, but is interchangeable, meaning the owner can back and forth.  But with the Kirst Konverter, at least for the Walker, my impression is it's a one way trip.

From what I've read the gun has to be adjusted for the conversion, and you can't go back and forth without gunsmithing.  Is that correct?

Seems a bit bothersome to pre-pack for the range. I've trimmed things down some so loading is relaxing. I have one of these to load with for my 1858 Remington's: Cylinder loader It is made and works really well and works for Dragoons and Walkers plus others. There's a version 2 model out now if your interested.

Also, I use triple 7's powder from a powder flask. The powder flasks have a pre-measured spout were once filled by pushing a side button in, you have your charge. There are a number of various volume sizes. Triple sevens is also less corrosive then straight powder. Though mine are stainless, I take a large squeeze bottle of soapy water with me and give them a good soaking/wipe down/swab after a session. It makes clean up easier later.

Instead of using Christo or other chain fire grease, I use wonder wads. Less of a mess.

For ball, I use Hornady .451 lead Ball. Very consistent.

Theres a few other odds and ends for your "possibles bag". I may be preaching to the choir but you do not use oil in the barrel or any place where it may contact the powder so you may consider bore butter plus some spare nipples and a nipple tool. For many of the blackpowder pistols, you can purchase extra drop in cylinders if you prefer pre-loading.

I believe you are correct with the Kirst conversions - once done they're cartridge only.

The Uberti factory conversion 1858 can go back and forth.

I have a Uberti walker and Dragoon. Both are nice pieces.

Out of the box, the hammer on the Dragoon would drop from full cock to fire without touching the trigger. I discovered this feature before any live firing. Uberti fixed it but I had to pay postage. The Walker didn’t have this feature.

Wow, that's certainly not a "feature" you'd want in a firearm.  How long did it take for them to fix it?  I think I'd have been pissed.

If I recall, it took about a month to get it back in my hands. If the pistol was handled properly it wasn’t a true safety issue but I would have thought they would have been more interested. Their response was very casual and they acted more annoyed than concerned.

I’ve bought three more Uberti replicas since then so you can’t accuse me of being a fast learner. No issues with any of the others.

Would it do it from half cocked?  Like when your loading?

No—full cock only.

https://hoveysknivesofchina.com/2015/01/14/walker-revolver-colt-walker-hunting-with-percussion-revolvers-black-powder-revolvers-ossabaw-island-hunt-handgun-hunting-black-powder-hunting-pistol-hunting-deer-hog-hunting-hunting-georgia-i/

There's a link to a gunsmith that'll turn 'em into SuperWalkers.

Before you buy any more Black Powder Guns, check out Cimarrons Richards Mason conversion, and the 1872 Colt open top.

I actually watched his video regarding this build on YouTube.  I'm new to black powder, but I'm considering getting a Hawkins rifle and taking advantage of the earlier black powder deer hunting season in my state.   It might be nice to get a jump on the regular hunting season.  I don't know.

None of my friends or acquaintances are into black powder.  So, I'm kind of learning on my own with the help of YouTube, ARFcom, and few other websites and forums.

Interesting facts on the Colt Walker

Only 1100 were ever made.  1000 for the Texas rangers, who were issued 2 each, and 100 for the civilian market.  I read where one sold at auction in 2008 for $920,000.   Making the originals some of the rarest and most expensive guns on the market.

They were used by the Texas Rangers in the Mexican-American war, and then in the Civil War.  They were in service until 1864.

This is part 1 of a three part article that you might enjoy

https://americanhandgunner.com/the-first-big-bore-sixguns/

Thank you for sharing that.

I'd like to get one, then get the conversion cylinder that uses .460 S&W brass.

.45 Brimstone/.45 Black Powder Magnum

It looks like the website is gone, do you have any information on who does the .460 conversion?  I'd like to read more about it.

If you search that site, you can find parts 2 and 3.

I found the guys facebook pages and his website.  But it doesn't list any performance or pricing information.  Of all the cartridge conversions, that's one of the most interesting.

http://www.cartridgeconversion.com/Home_Page.php

https://www.facebook.com/cartridgeconversion/

This is the guy...

@Warhawk thanks for posting that, however, while I found Part 3, I can't seem to find part 2.

Interesting fact.

Adjusted for inflation, the Uberti Walker in 2019 sells for about the same price that the original Colt Walker did in 1847.  I thought that was interesting.

Part II

The text is there, but the pics are all wrong.

That was a good series of articles.

I guess I'm hooked on these old guns.  They're kind of addictive, a combination of fun to shoot, and lots of stuff to fiddle with.  

I have one but have never shot it. I bought it to hang on the wall but might have to actually shoot it one day.

If I had an original Colt Walker, I'd put it in a case, inside a vault somewhere, and occasionally take it out and admire my million dollar gun.  But these Uberti Walkers were made to shoot and enjoy.  They're fun.

link and coupon codes please?

Sorry, they're all gone.  I think they sold out before Christmas.

I literally just made some paper cartridges for the first time yesterday for my Pietta 1860 Colt and 1858 Remington copies.  Who needs metallic cartridges when you can make caseless ammo?



I used YouTube videos from CapAndBall and this Scandinavian channel.  Basically I bought a 0.50 inch wooden dowel and put it in my drill press, then used files and sand paper to give it a taper using the suggested measurements.  Then I made up a template by wrapping some copy paper around the dowel and trimming it down.  Then use the template to cut out cartridge bodies from "end paper" they use at hair salons.  I also cut out 1 x 1 cm squares for the bottom of the cartridge.  Supposedly if you do it this way you don't have to nitrate the paper first in order to ignite the powder.  I used "water glass" (sodium silicate) as the glue and used the mandrel to form the case.  I can get about 28 or 30 grains in the case or downgrade the charge by trimming the top of the paper first.  They could be upgraded in power by cutting a longer case.  The projectile is a lead ball I casted a while ago (0.454" I think).

I haven't shot them yet to confirm if they ignite or not but I suspect they will based on how thin the paper is (basically tissue paper).  Also these will need lube placed on the front of the chambers after loading since there is none in the cartridge or bullet.

That's next on my list.

I've made black powder, and have all the stuff I need to make all the black powder I'd ever need
I have the equipment, molds, and ample lead supplies to make all the munitions I'd ever need

Next I plan to make flash paper cartridges making nitrocellulose paper.  Which is fairly easy actually.

I'd like to know that I could make everything I need to be lethal.

This is what attracts me to black powder.  I can hit a torso sized target with my Walker at over 100 yards, and groupings at 25 and 50 years are very respectable.  The world falls apart tomorrow, and I can hunt and defend.  Which is kind of comforting to know.

@AmericanPatriot1776

I just bought a tool from Dixie Gun Works, and noticed they had the Uberti Walker kit on sale, at $325.  As I understand this a pretty much assembled gun, with very little finishing work to be done, other than finish.

If you're set up to do your own bluing, or know someone who can do it for you, it might be an option.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8665/category_id/327/category_chain/325,327/product_name/RK0447+Uberti+Walker+Revolver+Kit

This guy did a short series on building one from a kit, he builds what he calls a super-Walker for hunting purposes.  Maybe it would give you some idea of what's involved.



Dixie Gun Works also have the finished gun on sale.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8647/category_id/321/product_name/RH0450+Uberti+Walker+Revolver

I'm probably not going to mess with nitrocelluose paper especially if these thin tissue cartridges ignite.  The originals used nitrated paper (soaked in potassium nitrate/salt petre) but that also isn't necessary from what I've read.  Hopefully I can go to the range soon and test them out.

Buffalo arms actually sells pre-nitrated paper.  I think a lot of people expect it to combust like gun cotton but it burns slow, just more likely to ignite compared to regular paper.  If I was using newspaper or copy paper I would probably nitrate it.

I already reconsidered making my own flash paper to use for cartridges.  While it's easy to do, there are problems with it.

The reason making flash paper sounded like a good idea to me, is because I thought I might be able to use a heavier weight cotton paper, making a more sturdy combustible cartridge.  But after further research it appears using flash paper would be a bad idea.

Apparently, if flash paper isn't stored under refrigeration it'll turn into a goo.  A goo that was actually used for making explosives once upon a time.  Which would kind of defeat the purpose of making cartridges ahead of time.  You'd have to store them in your freezer.

It appears on YouTube most people just use cigarette rolling papers, my only problem with that is that it seems that the cartridges would be rather fragile.  But then again I've no idea, I've never made them.  That's next on my list.

@m14fun Have you tried them yet?  How'd they work out?

I'm getting the stuff together to try to make some larger cartridges for the Walker.  I'm going to go ahead and nitrate some heavier weight cotton paper to see if I can make some sturdier cartridges.

I just bought a Pietta 1851 Navy repro in .44 last week.
I got the brass framed model because it was super cheap and it'll be my first percussion revolver.

I wanted to get a Walker but 4 1/2 lbs seems way excessive

It is a beast.  But you get use to it.  Also because of all the weight the recoil is light, even with a 60 grain charge, at least shooting round balls.

I'm going to order a couple of different molds from Kaido Ojamaa for his famous bullet.  I'm also going to get the Dragoon Bullet and Johnston and Dow molds from Eras Gone By Bullet Molds.  From what I hear shooting those heavier bullets have some kick to them, even with lighter loads.

I'd like to know how the open top brass frame holds up on that .44.  Some people won't touch them, and others say it's not a problem.

From what I've read, I'm thinking using the loading lever to force oversized balls into the cylinder probably does just as much damage and stretching as actually firing the thing. I won't be using the lever at all, and bought a cylinder loading press to do the loading.

We have aluminum framed .38 Specials these days, albeit closed frame designs. I doubt black powder loads will stress the frame too much. I also bought FFG powder which burns at a slower rate.

I'm still tempted to get that Walker kit. Thanks for the heads up on it.

I never really had any interest at all in these types of old pistols until just recently. That is after I went on a Lonesome Dove kick. I hadn't seen the series since I was about 12 years old when it originally aired. Seeing it again as an adult, it made a far greater impact on me. I've just been watching it over and over again. What a great mini-series this is! Suddenly, I found these kind of pistols interesting and started researching them. I'm now to the point that I'm lusting for 1847 Walker and 1860 Army revolvers the way I would have previously lusted over a custom high end 1911. I also badly want a quality reproduction of the 1860 Henry and Winchester 1866 Yellowboy lever action rifles depicted in the series. I never in a million years would have dreamed I'd develop an interest in these types of guns, but dang it, I've been bitten hard. And all because I just had to go and watch that damn Lonesone Dove series again.

Common sense would dictate that I spend the next two years buying every semi-auto, standard capacity firearm I could ever hope to want, along with every magazine I can find room for. But I honestly already have more of those kinds of guns than I'll likely ever need. And these old classic designs are really appealing to me and have renewed my interest in shooting. So my AR and Glock side is just going to have to deal with and make room for my emerging cap and ball and lever action cowboy style interests. Even if they are only reproductions, how can you hold or look at one of these things of beauty and not be instantly transported far back in time to important historical events?

I figure I'll start out with an 1860 Army first. Then I'll probably buy an 1847 Walker. These two I intend to leave as strictly percussion revolvers. But I also eventually plan to get an 1858 Remington too and buy a conversion cylinder for it, since it seems the Remington design is a bit better suited for swapping cylinders back and forth. And of course I'll also have to get something to scratch the 1873 SAA itch. It might be a Ruger new Vaquero (which I like for safety features), or I may just go with a Uberti Cattleman or one of those Smoke Wagons for a more classic look. Either way, I figure I'm starting down an entirely new rabbit hole that will lead me god knows where. I'm sure my credit card will feel the strain, as buying these new types of guns will mean I'll also have to buy new belts, holsters and a host of other goodies for them. I may even develop the urge to get into cowboy action shooting or something similar. Ah, damn you Lonesome Dove! Damn you to hell for being the spark that leads to the flame which will consume my wallet. LOL.

Go ahead and jump in, the obsession is warm.

That was me last month.  Except it was rewatching the Outlaw Josey Wales that led me to buy two Walkers.  Since then I've gone deep.

Casting equipment, molds, equipment and materials to make my own black powder.  I'm about to start making cartridges.  The 1960 Army is probably next on my list.  I like Uberti over Pietta, although Pietta is a little cheaper.  I don't like the graffiti warnings the engrave on the barrel, and from what reviewers have said they tend to be a little less fitted.  I'm a fan of the open top, but I'll probably end up with Remington at some point.  I was looking at Pedersoli Remington 1858 .44 Caliber, it looks pretty sharp.

I also want a percussion rifle and maybe a flintlock, or two.  So, yeah, I'm in deep.  

I'm leaning more toward buying a 3rd model Dragoon over the Walker.
But I already have an extra cylinder for the 1860 Army.

This is tough.

The Outlaw Josey Wales got me too, I had a Walker and 1860 on the way before it was over. A 1858 Remington showed up a little while later, they are pretty fun.

I think the Uberti Dragoons look like fine guns.  They are somewhat lighter, but we're only talking 4 ounces lighter.  They're still heavy guns.  Colt lightened the Dragoons by shortening the barrel by 1.5 inches and the cylinder.


Top to bottom-Colt 1847 Walker, 3rd Model Dragoon, 1851 Navy, and 1862 Police

The Walker was the most powerful handgun made until 1936.  The longer cylinder allows for higher loads, even with conicals.  This might or might not be important to you. It was to me.  I really like my Walker.  But with that said, the Dragoon is a nice gun as well.

You convinced me

I bought my nephew the game Red Dead Redemption 2, and now he's into cowboy stuff. He'd probably get a kick out of seeing the most powerful handgun of the Old West! I'll have to look this afternoon for the best deal.

I watched Lonesome Dove for the first time about three weeks ago. I'd also say I can blame that for my new obsession.

The 1847 Walker is the greatest battle implement ever devised...for whackin' surly bartenders who deliver dawdling service. At 4.5 pounds, those big hunks of iron really do have some serious "knock down" power.

Very true

Let's not forget, fully loaded it's just a hair shy of 5 lbs. so if for some reason, you didn't want to waste ammunition, it makes one hell of battle hammer.

The 1860 Army is my next gun.  I need to get a good western holster, and maybe a hat so I can LARP at the range.

Interesting side note--in the book Lonesome Dove Gus actually carries a Dragoon, not a Walker.

It specifically mentions that he keeps carrying it because he liked the heft when it came to whacking people.

For the record, the Walker is a Dragoon revolver.  It was designed for the Texas Rangers who were a mounted unit.  The Walker is just the biggest baddest Dragoon revolver ever made.

I didn't get the chance to shoot them yet.  I got distracted by a new Pietta 1873 with some blackpowder cartridges I loaded.  I also loaded some with smokeless but the blackpowder ones were more fun to shoot.  30gr of FFg, overshot card, felt wad with a bit of Balistol, and lubed bullet I cast the day before (RCBS cowboy double cavity mould).  I lubed the bullet grooves with a mixture of beeswax and vegetable oil.  This kept the fouling soft enough for me to shoot all 48 blackpowder cartridges I made plus a dozen smokeless.

Regarding paper cartridges you will want to cover the cylinder with lube after loading since you can't put any in the cartridge.  Otherwise you will gunk up the gun quick.

How did it shoot?