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Posted: 11/3/2019 8:08:39 PM EDT
Posted by IWI on facebook, the TS12 shotgun is finally shipping to dealers.
Link Posted: 11/3/2019 8:37:03 PM EDT
The iwi guy brought one buy this week.  Interesting to say the least.
Link Posted: 11/3/2019 11:29:56 PM EDT
I'm really hoping we get some buyers that will post, this thing just seems stupid in the most fun way possible.
Link Posted: 11/4/2019 12:12:53 PM EDT
Shotguns do nothing for me, but I still want this one. If it runs well, and I understand that’s tough with a semi-shoe 12ga, they’re going to have a huge hit.
Link Posted: 11/4/2019 3:35:39 PM EDT
It looks bad sci-fi prop absurdly huge to me. It will be interesting to hear end user feedback and see videos of it in use even though I have zero interest in owning it whatsoever.
Link Posted: 11/4/2019 7:22:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kali_Refugee:
It looks bad sci-fi prop absurdly huge to me. It will be interesting to hear end user feedback and see videos of it in use even though I have zero interest in owning it whatsoever.
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Hard to explain, but handling them at the NRA Show, They seem larger than they actually are.
Link Posted: 11/4/2019 10:25:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2019 10:31:03 PM EDT by trombarter]
I held one at the NRA convention in Dallas last year.

I was actually surprised that it wasn’t absurdly heavy.

Definitely want one if early reports are favorable.

Link Posted: 11/5/2019 4:49:22 PM EDT
Interesting Turkish shotgun?  Or IWI designed
Link Posted: 11/5/2019 6:53:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ar671:
Interesting Turkish shotgun?  Or IWI designed
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IWI designed and built.
Link Posted: 11/5/2019 8:06:44 PM EDT
Just put some money down at my local shop to hold one for me.  They say they are getting a half dozen of them in sometime next week.
Link Posted: 11/5/2019 9:44:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
Just put some money down at my local shop to hold one for me.  They say they are getting a half dozen of them in sometime next week.
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Tanners?  I think they have 20 coming in...
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 12:54:58 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:

IWI designed and built.
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Thanks, good to know.  Only reason asking is it looks almost exactly like the Armsan Bullpup shotgun


YouTube ....gunmart tv
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 1:27:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ar671:

Thanks, good to know.  Only reason asking is it looks almost exactly like the Armsan Bullpup shotgun
https://i.ibb.co/8swF9c6/image.png

YouTube ....gunmart tv
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I think the video's title is wrong/mislabeled.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 2:48:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Circle10:

I think the video's title is wrong/mislabeled.
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Hmmm,...not sure about video being wrong/mislabeled.  He mentioned he's "still in the Armsan Stand" or booth, and before that video he was talking about another Armasan shotgun.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 8:05:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2019 8:05:39 AM EDT by ShadowAngel]
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Originally Posted By ar671:

Hmmm,...not sure about video being wrong/mislabeled.  He mentioned he's "still in the Armsan Stand" or booth, and before that video he was talking about another Armasan shotgun.
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That website (gunmart) is literally the only one showing that. They were confused, possibly? I guarantee IWI didn't copy a firearm from a third world manufacturer.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 11:37:32 AM EDT
sure looks like this one

https://www.srmarms.com/shotguns
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 11:59:12 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By pjomalley:
sure looks like this one

https://www.srmarms.com/shotguns
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Are you saying that’s the same as the TS12?  How?  It has 4 tubes instead of 3, an exposed barrel, and most importantly is recoil delayed blowback while the TS12 is gas operated.  Other than being a bullpup shotgun fed from rotating tubes, it’s completely different.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 3:45:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SnaitN:

Tanners?  I think they have 20 coming in...
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Yes, Tanners.  Just spoke to Ray Jr. a few minutes ago and he said 20 of them should arrive tomorrow.  However this may not be good for us left handlers.  I spoke with customer service at IWI this afternoon and they said this first run of TS12’s are right hand only and not able to switch for left hand shooters.  It seems they are having reliability issues with the left hand ejectors and until they work the problem out the guns are strictly right hand eject.  He also said they expect to have the problem resolved in a month or two.  At that point they will make truly ambidextrous capable TS12’s.
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 6:24:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MadDogDan:

Yes, Tanners.  Just spoke to Ray Jr. a few minutes ago and he said 20 of them should arrive tomorrow.  However this may not be good for us left handlers.  I spoke with customer service at IWI this afternoon and they said this first run of TS12’s are right hand only and not able to switch for left hand shooters.  It seems they are having reliability issues with the left hand ejectors and until they work the problem out the guns are strictly right hand eject.  He also said they expect to have the problem resolved in a month or two.  At that point they will make truly ambidextrous capable TS12’s.
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What kind of price?
Link Posted: 11/6/2019 6:30:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:

What kind of price?
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$1,299.00
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 6:17:35 PM EDT
Local shop just called to say 20 TS12’s came in this afternoon.  Now I just have to make sure I can switch it to left hand eject despite what the IWI web site says.  If I can’t I will have to wait until they ship true ambidextrous TS12’s.
Link Posted: 11/7/2019 6:28:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
Local shop just called to say 20 TS12’s came in this afternoon.  Now I just have to make sure I can switch it to left hand eject despite what the IWI web site says.  If I can’t I will have to wait until they ship true ambidextrous TS12’s.
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I would put it on layaway, call IWI and ask if it can be converted with a trip back to the factory like the Tavors require, and see when they could change it over, unless its something that has to be built from the factory left handed.
Link Posted: 11/8/2019 1:56:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2019 5:36:46 PM EDT by MadDogDan]
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:

I would put it on layaway, call IWI and ask if it can be converted with a trip back to the factory like the Tavors require, and see when they could change it over, unless its something that has to be built from the factory left handed.
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Slimjim,  that was an excellent suggestion.  All 20 TS12’s that Tanners received yesterday are either spoken for or have been picked up already. I sent them an Email last night telling them to put me on the list, apparently a good move.  I went home with it 15 minutes later for $1,299.00

So I read the manual while in the shop and it says “must send back to IWI to be converted for left hand use”.  While in the shop I called IWI and asked about sending it to them and they said not yet.  They do not have the parts to convert to left hand.  They said they will probably have them by the end of the year.  I plan on using this for 3-Gun Matches (replacing my SRM 1216) but the next season doesn’t start until March so I have plenty of time to convert it.

I asked what was the likelihood they will never make conversion parts and he said “not likely, it’s not a matter of if they will make conversion parts, it’s a matter of when”.

Guess I will take it apart, get familiar with the internal workings, and shoot it as a right hander for a while until I can convert it.  The quality is top tier and it is much lighter than it looks.  It weighs about the same as a few of my AR’s with variable power optics installed.  I am used to a rotary mag shotgun as my SRM 1216 operates the same way but this seems more refined and well thought out.  It comes with 2 chokes (Improved Cylinder, and Modified) as well as a choke wrench.  All in all I think the cost was worth it.  Same price as my SRM 1216 rotary mag  and my SKO 12 box mag shotguns.  Would have preferred it to be in OD Green to go with my OD Green AUG that I am currently using for 3-gun but you “can’t have everything”. 🥴

ETA:  As a lefty this is really easy to manipulate as a right hander.  I have been cycling “Snap Caps” for the last hour and I think it will be a snap (pun intended) to shoot as a right hander until IWI comes out with left hand parts.  Glad I snagged the last one my local shop had.  I will be able to take it to the range on Monday and put it through it’s paces (with slugs and 00 Buck as the indoor range doesn’t allow birdshot).  Now to buy another Trijicon SRO to go back on my Standard SKO 12 that I robbed for this TS12.  🥴
Link Posted: 11/9/2019 12:59:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:
IWI designed and built.
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:
Originally Posted By ar671:
Interesting Turkish shotgun?  Or IWI designed
IWI designed and built.
Nah it's Turkish designed. Made by Armsan and licensed to IWI
Link Posted: 11/9/2019 3:32:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2019 3:43:29 AM EDT by ShadowAngel]
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Originally Posted By Reiko:

Nah it's Turkish designed. Made by Armsan and licensed to IWI
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Originally Posted By Reiko:

Nah it's Turkish designed. Made by Armsan and licensed to IWI
In this episode, for some reason, the unusual magazine-style shotguns are overwhelmed - and most of them, of course, are Turkish. Most exciting is probably the triple tube Armsan, also known as IWI Tavor TS12.
That doesn't say it's Turkish designed, or produced by Armsan and licensed to IWI. If anything, it was designed by IWI and licensed to Turkey.

It's not listed on Armsan's site. Googling it only provides a handful of results, which are only pictures from a trade show. I'm still not entirely sure it's not a mistranslation somewhere. Literally the only references are in a video of them showing it off a couple months ago, while IWI's been showing and talking about it for years. There's a press release from nearly two years ago where they announce it and refer to it as their design. So unless you can prove it's Armsan's design, i'm going to go ahead and say you're wrong.
Link Posted: 11/12/2019 2:51:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Reiko:

Nah it's Turkish designed. Made by Armsan and licensed to IWI
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Bingo
Link Posted: 11/12/2019 4:06:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2019 4:07:43 PM EDT by ShadowAngel]
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Originally Posted By ar671:
Bingo
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Originally Posted By ar671:
Originally Posted By Reiko:

Nah it's Turkish designed. Made by Armsan and licensed to IWI
Bingo


Again, prove it.

Some of you lack basic reading comprehension skills.
Link Posted: 11/12/2019 4:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2019 4:19:53 PM EDT by doty_soty]
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Originally Posted By ar671:
Bingo
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Originally Posted By ar671:
Originally Posted By Reiko:

Nah it's Turkish designed. Made by Armsan and licensed to IWI
Bingo
I would be interested in the evidence that is behind these claims.
Link Posted: 11/12/2019 4:49:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By doty_soty:

I would be interested in the evidence that is behind these claims.
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No problem, was gonna post earlier on these claims but I was busy.   emailed IWI about a week ago, got an email from IWI today, their response is....

The Armsan gun never really ran reliably, but we liked the idea of a bullpup shotgun. By working with Armsan and applying our engineering staff we were able to find areas that needed improvement and remedied any flaws we found, in order to bring the TS12 to the US. This is in fact, an IWI product.

Respectfully,

Owen W.
Customer Service

I personally don't see a problem with product being made somewhere else, and a great company like IWI taking it a bit further as stated on their response.
Link Posted: 11/12/2019 7:04:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2019 7:05:54 PM EDT by Manticore_Arms]
Link Posted: 11/12/2019 7:44:01 PM EDT
Just took mine out for the first time.  Ran 70 rounds through it in 20 minutes as I was on a lunch break.  Started with slugs moving at 1,350 fps with zero problems.  Next was some 00 Buck moving at 1,460 fps.  Wanted to see if it would cycle reliably with low recoil rounds so I ran 25 rounds of low recoil 1,200 fps 00 Buck.  Again it ran 100%  Next outing low recoil #7 Birdshot as I intend to run this in local 3-Gun Matches.

So far I am very pleased with my purchase.
Link Posted: 12/26/2019 11:03:07 PM EDT
Have you had a chance to run with low brass birdshot?
Link Posted: 12/28/2019 2:03:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2019 12:56:07 PM EDT by realwar]
Any word on a lefty version? My FFL have the RH version in stock but doesn't have any info on the LH version yet.
Link Posted: 12/28/2019 7:53:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2019 7:54:06 PM EDT by MadDogDan]
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Originally Posted By realwar:
Any word on a lefty version? My FFL have the RH version in stock but doesn't have any info on the LH version yet.
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I spoke with IWI and was told you can send your right hand model back to them for left hand conversion.  It also states this in the user manual.  The only problem is IWI does not have left hand bolts in stock yet to do the conversions.  They were optimistic that they would have the parts in by the end of the year but that doesn’t look like they will any time soon.  My guess is conversions will be possible by the middle of 2020.  As far as left hand models being sold that way from the factory..........probably not any time soon
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 12:31:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2019 12:33:09 AM EDT by KP49]
Not 100% sure if any parts will be needed for the LH conversion.  The bolt is cut for the extractor on both sides and it is only installed on one side.  Unfortunately the pin is staked in place so most likely going back and forth will be limited.  That and the ejection port cover that has the ejector looks like it can be swapped to the other side.  I couldnt see how to remove the port cover but it has to be removed to eject from the LH side so I assume it can be installed on the RH side.  They may sell a bolt that already has the ejector on the other side instead of swapping the extractor to the other side, who knows.
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 8:41:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By KP49:
Not 100% sure if any parts will be needed for the LH conversion.  The bolt is cut for the extractor on both sides and it is only installed on one side.  Unfortunately the pin is staked in place so most likely going back and forth will be limited.  That and the ejection port cover that has the ejector looks like it can be swapped to the other side.  I couldnt see how to remove the port cover but it has to be removed to eject from the LH side so I assume it can be installed on the RH side.  They may sell a bolt that already has the ejector on the other side instead of swapping the extractor to the other side, who knows.
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I tore my TS12 down and examined it pretty carefully.  The biggest obstacle I can see for the left hand conversion, if tried by the user would be reversing the port cover.  The cover is held in place by two crescent shaped studs that protrude from the two horizontal surfaces of the cover.  Yes there are matching cutouts on the right hand port opening, however those studs are held in place by a steel insert that fits inside a dovetail groove milled into the port cover.  In order to slide that insert out you would need a puller with a very short shallow claw designed specifically for this task.  Once the cover is reversed you would need a press designed to fit in that tight space to slide the steel insert back into the cover.

Then there is the matter of restaking the extractor claw.  I am sure this is a service that IWI will offer in the near future.  Until they do I am just practicing shooting my TS12 as a right handed.
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 12:05:34 PM EDT
Thanks guys for the info, it looks like I will just wait till they offer a LH version.
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 3:55:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MadDogDan:

I tore my TS12 down and examined it pretty carefully.  The biggest obstacle I can see for the left hand conversion, if tried by the user would be reversing the port cover.  The cover is held in place by two crescent shaped studs that protrude from the two horizontal surfaces of the cover.  Yes there are matching cutouts on the right hand port opening, however those studs are held in place by a steel insert that fits inside a dovetail groove milled into the port cover.  In order to slide that insert out you would need a puller with a very short shallow claw designed specifically for this task.  Once the cover is reversed you would need a press designed to fit in that tight space to slide the steel insert back into the cover.

Then there is the matter of restaking the extractor claw.  I am sure this is a service that IWI will offer in the near future.  Until they do I am just practicing shooting my TS12 as a right handed.
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I tried to figure out the port cover but like you said there is probably a special tool/puller to remove/install the steel insert, there may be an easier way but it isnt obvious.  I would have no issue staking the extractor pin, but most likely they will just sell you a bolt with the claw on the other side.  I was a little disappointed the firing pin retention pin was staked as well, but the way the carrier is designed they had no choice I guess.
Link Posted: 1/14/2020 11:40:46 AM EDT
Just spoke with IWI a few minutes ago to find out “when” the Left Hand Conversions will be available.  He could not give me a projected date but did say they were “diligently working on the conversions” and hoped to have that option available in a few months.
Link Posted: 1/14/2020 1:59:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2020 2:07:49 AM EDT by realwar]
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Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
Just spoke with IWI a few minutes ago to find out “when” the Left Hand Conversions will be available.  He could not give me a projected date but did say they were “diligently working on the conversions” and hoped to have that option available in a few months.
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Yep, got this message back from IWI today.

Hi Realwar,

Not currently. We have been working diligently to produce one, but I cannot say for sure when we might see it. Sorry.

Respectfully,

Owen W.
Customer Service
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