User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 7:43:09 AM EDT
[#1]
The only advantages of a pin and weld are:
1. Save $200. 2. Get an SBR in states where they’re not legal or simplify traveling with one. If you live an SBR state, don’t bother with a pin and weld. It’s not worth locking in your suppressor to one upper and it requires a gunsmith to undo if you ever change your mind. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 9:51:46 AM EDT
[#2]
I agree that if you have the option of an SBR, then pinning a suppressor doesn't make much sense.
I have a recce 5 that I run on 16", 14.5" & 11.5" ARs. You will LOVE the difference in the handling of an 11.5 compared to your 16. It's not just shorter, but all that weight that was hanging out there is brought in closer to your body. It's just a great set up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 9:58:19 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only advantages of a pin and weld are: 1. Save $200. 2. Get an SBR in states where they're not legal or simplify traveling with one. Some advantages of a Form1 SBR for your $200:
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 10:33:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only advantages of a pin and weld are: 1. Save $200. 2. Get an SBR in states where they’re not legal or simplify traveling with one. If you live an SBR state, don’t bother with a pin and weld. It’s not worth locking in your suppressor to one upper and it requires a gunsmith to undo if you ever change your mind. More. The suppressor will never ever come loose. You will have an absolute 100% repeatable zero. You can custom design and tune your gas system once and for all. After thousands and thousands of rounds you may want to remove it. You can clean it in an ultrasonic machine if desired. I have many suppressors. I fell for the hype of being able to interchange uppers and suppressors and mixing and matching. Spent way more on muzzle devices and the reality for me is that I almost never move the suppressor. I’d recommend shooting the rifle without pin welding with the suppressor on, and see if you like it. That specific combination of suppressor and barrel may not be to your satisfaction. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 12:11:15 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm going to refrain from stating my personal opinions, and instead give you a decade of info coming from our clients.
Universally, they're going to tell you it's a bad idea and they wouldn't do it again. If they state otherwise, then they haven't had the gun long enough to realize it's a bad idea. (I mention that because a number have loved it, until something went sideways then explained they regret doing it.) Gas block issues, handguard issues, upper receiver issues, can RMA issues, bad weld issues. Unpin and repin issues, lots of them have come up when talking to folks about their own guns. Ultimately, "It would have been cheaper and easier to just get an SBR stamp" is the takeaway. Most of us have learned "buy once cry once" is true, and "just as good as { } " usually isn't. If you don't want it to come off, you can always torque it to max acceptable specs with a lot of rocksett. May as well be welded to the barrel at that point lol. (Functionally the same, but not going to count as length when dealing with ATF.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 1:19:45 PM EDT
[#6]
I’ve started accumulating cans and have a DT can that works well, but some of the more modern ones I have are just more convenient and efficient, so it doesn’t have a “home” at the moment
That said, I’d surely build a 10.3” or something and Pin the can to it to avoid issues when taking a short barrel out of state. The rifle would be set up similarly to my current HD gun yet would only get use when leaving the state for whatever reason. Which is more frequently than what I do with it currently |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 2:56:43 PM EDT
[#7]
In all honesty, I never travel, so not much of an issue there. Iowa does allow sbr’s, so also no problem. After playing musical muzzle devices with some of my rifles, DT has its merits. The need to repair things makes sense though. I’m also not seeing any of the p&w suppressors in stock.
So what direct thread 5.56 cans should I be considering? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 4:33:59 PM EDT
[#8]
I always contribute to these threads with my experience and I’ll say it again. It’s really only worth it if you have a can you’ll never use otherwise. I had a Tac16 garbage can that literally never moved for years. Thread on only, heavy, loud and would come loose after a mag or so. I paid $275 for it new (minus tax stamp). I decided it was a great option for a pin/weld can. I sent it to Nick at Ecco and he recored it and trimmed it to a much lighter/quieter config. I pinned it to an upper I had him chop and tune the gas. It’s such a cool rifle now!! I seriously love it! I still wouldn’t use the can on other rifles, it was cheap and now it has a home so it was worth it to me. I’m not sure I’d do it with a new purchase. Id just go the sbr route, but if you’ve got a can not being utilized, it’s a great way to get some use out of a tax stamp just sitting in your safe.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2023 8:34:37 PM EDT
[#9]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 10:20:28 AM EDT
[#10]
form 1.
I had a can silver soldered for awhile. was a pain to remove. easier and less hassle to just do a SBR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 10:43:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: After shooting my Recce5 for a while on a 16" AR, I'm interested in something with a shorter overall length. I'm looking at an 11.5, either form 1 sbr or pin and weld can to make length. What are the advantages of either approach? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 7:38:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No pros to pin and weld since it defeats the modular aspect of the AR platform. SBR is the best option. Not even someone with lots of cans and lots of ARs? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#13]
I still like the idea of not having to fiddle with mounts. Looking at the Gemtech direct thread cans, and the Griffin GP5. I have enough guns to dedicate a suppressor to a new rifle. I also want to avoid buying tons of different mounts.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 10:05:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Why not direct thread with loctite?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 10:12:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Another thing to think about is what happens of you get a baffle or endcap strike with your P&W can?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 10:27:51 PM EDT
[#16]
I have some experience with this. I would ONLY do it if I couldn’t get/use an SBR and if I did it again I would use an MRP upper. You have to be able to replace the gas tube easily.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2023 11:54:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if I did it again I would use an MRP upper. You have to be able to replace the gas tube easily. Now there's a heck of an idea! An 11.5" MRP upper with a silencer P&W to an LMT 12.5" MRP barrel would be pretty damn hot. Although, using a 2-piece rail like a Centurion C4 would still allow you to change your gas tube but for less money. With a 2-piece gas block the only things that couldn't be removed would be the silencer and the barrel nut. Here's a 2-piece adjustable gas block, just need to make sure it fits under the rail. If there's no turning back, OP, please keep this thread alive and let us know what you decide on. Then post pics. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2023 9:53:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another thing to think about is what happens of you get a baffle or endcap strike with your P&W can? This is another solid point. I have decided against the p&w route. Edit: I am shopping for an 11.5. I need to do some research on the form 1 deal. It has historically been faster, but I’m fairly new to NFA stuff. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2023 12:55:43 PM EDT
[#19]
No mention in this thread about having to beg permission from ATF if you want to leave your state with said SBR. It usually takes about as much time to get permission to transport as it dose to get permission to make an SBR. If you own a camp in a neighboring state or regularly shoot in one, make sure you stay way ahead of them on your form 5320.20s
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/26/2023 4:20:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No mention in this thread about having to beg permission from ATF if you want to leave your state with said SBR. It usually takes about as much time to get permission to transport as it dose to get permission to make an SBR. If you own a camp in a neighboring state or regularly shoot in one, make sure you stay way ahead of them on your form 5320.20s I only mentioned it in passing. I never travel due to work and kids. I do agree that it’s ridiculous to ask for permission to travel with your own property. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/27/2023 11:42:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to refrain from stating my personal opinions, and instead give you a decade of info coming from our clients. Universally, they're going to tell you it's a bad idea and they wouldn't do it again. If they state otherwise, then they haven't had the gun long enough to realize it's a bad idea. (I mention that because a number have loved it, until something went sideways then explained they regret doing it.) Gas block issues, handguard issues, upper receiver issues, can RMA issues, bad weld issues. Unpin and repin issues, lots of them have come up when talking to folks about their own guns. Ultimately, "It would have been cheaper and easier to just get an SBR stamp" is the takeaway. Most of us have learned "buy once cry once" is true, and "just as good as { } " usually isn't. If you don't want it to come off, you can always torque it to max acceptable specs with a lot of rocksett. May as well be welded to the barrel at that point lol. (Functionally the same, but not going to count as length when dealing with ATF.) I do not agree with this. It’s a logic argument. If you do not know about something (use it, have it, etc) you will never miss it. If you have it and only if something goes wrong (both have to be true), will you regret it. Let me ask you. How many people popped in and told you their pin and weld suppressor rifles are doing great and then they left? It’s a statistical bell curve. Some people are going to be ecstatic, some are going to have regret, the vast majority will be ok with it. What line of business are y’all in? Who do you think contacts y’all? The ones that had a bad experience. What were some of the issues that people had that they regretted doing this? The Griffin GPS series is cheap and comes pre drilled for a pin weld. When I bought mine, it was $400 and then the transfer. None of us get into NFA because it’s so CHEAP. I think suppressors should be cheap and relatively disposable, but that ain’t reality. As far as modularity goes. Once you have a rifle dialed in, do you really take it apart just to change out the parts? I may change a trigger or a stock, but once the upper is dialed in and running, I am not messing with the upper. That why I recommend running the combination you are considering without pin welding it on an SBR lower. If it works for you, then pin weld it and replicate the lower on a non SBR lower. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2023 9:58:55 AM EDT
[#22]
There are valid arguments on either side.
As always, the mission should determine the gear. The TBAC Take Down was a cool and inexpensive setup that allowed for easy recorring/cleaning of the can via removal from the front. As I understand it, this was their submission for the .mil contract that Sig ended up winning. https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/556-take-down   
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2023 10:43:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are valid arguments on either side. As always, the mission should determine the gear. The TBAC Take Down was a cool and inexpensive setup that allowed for easy recorring/cleaning of the can via removal from the front. As I understand it, this was their submission for the .mil contract that Sig ended up winning. https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/556-take-down https://thunderbeastarms.com/photo/556TD/tbacsm/D465_4566_img.jpg https://thunderbeastarms.com/photo/556TD/tbacsm/D465_4562_img.jpg https://thunderbeastarms.com/photo/556TD/tbacsm/D465_4585_img.jpg That can is pretty hawt. I’m looking at an OCM pulonium right now to go on an sbr. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 7:56:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not agree with this. It's a logic argument. If you do not know about something (use it, have it, etc) you will never miss it. If you have it and only if something goes wrong (both have to be true), will you regret it. Let me ask you. How many people popped in and told you their pin and weld suppressor rifles are doing great and then they left? It's a statistical bell curve. Some people are going to be ecstatic, some are going to have regret, the vast majority will be ok with it. What line of business are y'all in? Who do you think contacts y'all? The ones that had a bad experience. What were some of the issues that people had that they regretted doing this? The Griffin GPS series is cheap and comes pre drilled for a pin weld. When I bought mine, it was $400 and then the transfer. None of us get into NFA because it's so CHEAP. I think suppressors should be cheap and relatively disposable, but that ain't reality. As far as modularity goes. Once you have a rifle dialed in, do you really take it apart just to change out the parts? I may change a trigger or a stock, but once the upper is dialed in and running, I am not messing with the upper. That why I recommend running the combination you are considering without pin welding it on an SBR lower. If it works for you, then pin weld it and replicate the lower on a non SBR lower. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 8:03:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to refrain from stating my personal opinions, and instead give you a decade of info coming from our clients. Universally, they're going to tell you it's a bad idea and they wouldn't do it again. If they state otherwise, then they haven't had the gun long enough to realize it's a bad idea. (I mention that because a number have loved it, until something went sideways then explained they regret doing it.) Gas block issues, handguard issues, upper receiver issues, can RMA issues, bad weld issues. Unpin and repin issues, lots of them have come up when talking to folks about their own guns. Ultimately, "It would have been cheaper and easier to just get an SBR stamp" is the takeaway. Most of us have learned "buy once cry once" is true, and "just as good as { } " usually isn't. If you don't want it to come off, you can always torque it to max acceptable specs with a lot of rocksett. May as well be welded to the barrel at that point lol. (Functionally the same, but not going to count as length when dealing with ATF.) Nailed it... |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 11:25:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No mention in this thread about having to beg permission from ATF if you want to leave your state with said SBR. It usually takes about as much time to get permission to transport as it dose to get permission to make an SBR. If you own a camp in a neighboring state or regularly shoot in one, make sure you stay way ahead of them on your form 5320.20s In my case, I live in a state where several are within a couple hours drive and my wife plans weekend trips that I have little heads up and no way to request a travel form for a camp ground with 2-3 weeks notice. Having a Pinned 10.5” wouldn’t be terrible at all especially with a DT can I have sitting in the safe not being used |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 1:12:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me ask you this. Serious question. Would you still pin & weld a can if SBRs weren't in the NFA? (no $200 tax, no 5320.20) I’d Rocksett them for sure, as I have currently as well. Then again, you know that hypothetical answers for a hypothetical questions only exist in a hypothetical world. Not this world we live in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 1:37:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I'm going to refrain from stating my personal opinions, and instead give you a decade of info coming from our clients. Universally, they're going to tell you it's a bad idea and they wouldn't do it again. If they state otherwise, then they haven't had the gun long enough to realize it's a bad idea. (I mention that because a number have loved it, until something went sideways then explained they regret doing it.) Gas block issues, handguard issues, upper receiver issues, can RMA issues, bad weld issues. Unpin and repin issues, lots of them have come up when talking to folks about their own guns. Ultimately, "It would have been cheaper and easier to just get an SBR stamp" is the takeaway. Most of us have learned "buy once cry once" is true, and "just as good as { } " usually isn't. If you don't want it to come off, you can always torque it to max acceptable specs with a lot of rocksett. May as well be welded to the barrel at that point lol. (Functionally the same, but not going to count as length when dealing with ATF.) Quoted: Nailed it... I’ll ask it again. It seems that more than one person has expressed regret in pin welding a suppressor, what was the reason given? Or reasons. You are in a unique position to talk to a lot of people buying suppressors. If they wish they could take it off a put it on a different barrel, that is poor planning. Was there a mechanical issue? A baffle strike? Poor choice in hand guard? Bad gas block? This is a "permanent" fix, plan for it. I said it before. Spec out the upper, thread the can on and run it for a couple hundred rounds of the ammo you wish to use. If it’s ok to your standards then weld it on. If someone specs it all out and welds the can on without testing, that’s not entirely the fault of the weld. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 1:42:15 PM EDT
[#29]
i run my recce 5 on both 14.5 and a 11.5, both BCM. works great with both, i tend to sue the 11.5 more b/c of the type of training i do which tends to be CQB distance.
Cant go wrong with a 14.5 as long as you dont mind p/w a $90 muzzle device. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 2:49:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then again, you know that hypothetical answers for a hypothetical questions only exist in a hypothetical world. Not this world we live in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 3:21:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... simplify traveling with one... . This is the ONLY reason i would do it. Travel anywhere you can take a rifle without asking big daddy ATF 2+ months in advance each time, or annually. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 7:41:54 PM EDT
[#32]
I see no reason not to have a can for every rifle. In that case some being welded isn’t an issue. And no I would not consider it if the current restrictions were not in place. I have no issue with spending money to get what I want, but I generally spend time mulling it over before I pull the trigger on a purchase. I have decided to buy an sbr and wait forever for two stamps, deal with the mount game, and never take it out of state. For my purposes that is the best choice. I am grateful for the information.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2023 7:51:43 PM EDT
[#33]
I really want to try one of the Griffin GP5’s.. pinned and welded of course. I have family in Arkansas and travel there enough that my 10.5 pistol is begging for one, said firearm is the only reason I braced one in the first place. I already have an 11.5 SBR but I don’t want to play the paper trail game with ATF.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
