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TNVC pvs-14 question. (Page 1 of 2)
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Posted: 5/22/2020 11:00:41 AM EDT
So I’ve spent the past week or so researching pvs-14’s and still feel a little lost and would appreciate some direction.

Initially I wrote off the model with the Photonis 4g echo tube due to being listed as gen 2+ and felt like I’d better just pony up the extra money for a gen 3 of any kind.

But after having watched a lot of YouTube videos, the Photonis’ performance seems to be within spitting distance of things like the Omni viii. And it even seemed to look better in certain lighting situations.

It’s very difficult to know exactly what I want having never used a night vision device of any kind. And it seems YouTube videos aren’t exactly a perfect interpretation of what I should actually expect. My primary use will just be screwing around with them in the yard and watching after my property from the roaming meth heads and pit bulls that wander through.

Plan is to mount it to a Crye Nightcap with Wilcox g11 Mount with just the single pvs-14. That’s about all my budget can manage for the foreseeable future. Dual tube systems seem amazing but I ain’t got the money for all that.

So to summarize... https://tnvc.com/shop/ngi-pvs-14-photonis-4g-echo-hybrid-photocathode-gen-2/

Am I gonna be happy with this in the long term? Or do I need to just buckle up and spend the extra $800-$1000 for one of the models with a gen 3 image intensifier? White does look more visually appealing from pictures but the product page says the green has better specs. Thoughts?

Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 11:11:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 11:16:47 AM EDT
If I were in your shoes I would get the gen 3.

Video is very hard to capture. From my usage behind gen 2 tubes, albeit limited, they do great for mixed light usage.

When things get actually dark, the gen 3 pulls way ahead.

A photonis tube in an urban environment with plenty of lights around is pretty great though.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 11:17:34 AM EDT
Ooooo thanks for the heads up! Can’t give any more details than that I assume?!
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 11:26:30 AM EDT
As was said. It depends on your use, if you urban and just playing in the dark or hunting near a city the photonis would probably be ok. If your going out under tress 30 miles from the closest town, gen 3.

If for SHTF, you could go both ways. There will not be light pollution from the cities, except from the fires ( hehe ), so gen 3 would be better. But because so few have night vision you could probably use IR light all night long and no one would know.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 12:00:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 12:57:43 PM EDT by will-1]
The Echo WP's are pretty good IMO. They work their best with more ambient light compared to gen 3 (city glow, lights, Moon overhead, extra IR, etc.) but it's not like it doesn't work when it gets real dark. It's darker/dimmer overall than good gen 3 so when it gets darker it looks darker. If that makes sense.  

If you never used night vision and were handed an Echo WP and an average gen 3 GP not knowing which is which with ambient lighting I would bet you would pick the Echo WP.  

With that said, they are not better (ETA: or as good) than good gen 3 in ALL lighting conditions but better then lower spec gen 3 IMO.

It's a similar analogy to white phosphor. Just because something is white phosphor doesn't automatically mean it will be awesome. Same goes for gen 3.

I would recommend basing it off of your budget. Factor in your total cost - the device, accessories such as helmet, mount, arm interface, infrared illuminator, etc.

If your budget is high enough to get a quality gen 3 then I would do that. If you need to be less then Echo WP with good specs is a good option. Get the lowest EBI you can find because many of them are high (as close to 0.1 or lower which works out to be 1.0 as measured by US tube mfgs).    

Link Posted: 5/22/2020 12:23:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By IAm4:
As was said. It depends on your use, if you urban and just playing in the dark or hunting near a city the photonis would probably be ok. If your going out under tress 30 miles from the closest town, gen 3.

If for SHTF, you could go both ways. There will not be light pollution from the cities, except from the fires ( hehe ), so gen 3 would be better. But because so few have night vision you could probably use IR light all night long and no one would know.
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I'm not so sure of that anymore.  There are lots of low end products out there in the sub $500 range, and people who don't know any better are buying them.  But as crappy as they are, they will still spot you if you fire up your infrared illuminator. In SHTF, I would rather not give them a target by lighting myself up.  Instead, I would rather spot them first because they are forced to use some kind of IR illuminator to get any use from theirs at all.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 12:51:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amannamedjed:


I'm not so sure of that anymore.  There are lots of low end products out there in the sub $500 range, and people who don't know any better are buying them.  But as crappy as they are, they will still spot you if you fire up your infrared illuminator. In SHTF, I would rather not give them a target by lighting myself up.  Instead, I would rather spot them first because they are forced to use some kind of IR illuminator to get any use from theirs at all.
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Good point.

Gen 3 vs Echo may not always have a huge increase in detection depending on the range and environment. Even with the best filmless tubes in some conditions you may only be able to passively recognize a human sized object within a very short distance. I agree, I'll take any advantage I can get, and that's why I'm filmless gen 3 all the way.

It depends on the buyer. Realistically, the odds of using your gear in SHTF is extremely low, and having an Echo vs nothing at all or cheap digital is still a good advantage. If the buyer is very serious about this type of thing and wants every advantage possible then they should skip right to high spec filmless tubes IMO.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 12:52:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:
The Echo WP's are pretty good IMO. They work best with more ambient light compared to gen 3 (city glow, lights, Moon overhead, extra IR, etc.) but it's not like it doesn't work when it gets real dark. It's darker/dimmer overall than good gen 3 so when it gets darker it looks darker. If that makes sense.  

If you never used night vision and were handed an Echo WP and an average gen 3 GP not knowing which is which with ambient lighting I would bet you would pick the Echo WP.  

With that said, they are not better (ETA: or as good) than good gen 3 in ALL lighting conditions but better then lower spec gen 3 IMO.

It's a similar analogy to white phosphor. Just because something is white phosphor doesn't automatically mean it will be awesome. Same goes for gen 3.

I would recommend basing it off of your budget. Factor in your total cost - the device, accessories such as helmet, mount, arm interface, infrared illuminator, etc.

If your budget is high enough to get a quality gen 3 then I would do that. If you need to be less then Echo WP with good specs is a good option. Get the lowest EBI you can find because many of them are high (as close to 0.1 or lower which works out to be 1.0 as measured by US tube mfgs).    

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Awesome info, thank you!

Really seems like the Photonis 4g echo with white phosphur is by far and away the best bang for the buck. 95% of the time I’d be using it there are street lamps, porch lights, etc within a few hundred feet at most so given I won’t ever really encounter anything close to total darkness it sounds like they may even perform better than some of the gen 3 options.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 12:52:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amannamedjed:


I'm not so sure of that anymore.  There are lots of low end products out there in the sub $500 range, and people who don't know any better are buying them.  But as crappy as they are, they will still spot you if you fire up your infrared illuminator. In SHTF, I would rather not give them a target by lighting myself up.  Instead, I would rather spot them first because they are forced to use some kind of IR illuminator to get any use from theirs at all.
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Yes and no. I have a cheap amazon 10 buck ir flashlight. It will light up a 100 yard square field like day light to my gen 3's. When I tried with my non echo gen 2, I could see 50 feet maybe. I used to have a gen 1, well the built in illumination on it worked to about 30 feet , but my gen 2 saw it at 100 yards. I would bet the built in ir in my goggles would not even be visible to my gen 2 unless looking directly at each other past 50 feet.

So yes they can all see ir. A gen 3 would see the amazon light lighting up the woods like a UFO, a gen 2 might see it under perfect situations, a gen 1 good luck.  

I may do a test with this.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 12:58:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 1:00:15 PM EDT by IAm4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


Good point.

Gen 3 vs Echo may not always have a huge increase in detection depending on the range and environment. Even with the best filmless tubes in some conditions you may only be able to passively recognize a human sized object within a very short distance. I agree, I'll take any advantage I can get, and that's why I'm filmless gen 3 all the way.

It depends on the buyer. Realistically, the odds of using your gear in SHTF is extremely low, and having an Echo vs nothing at all or cheap digital is still a good advantage. If the buyer is very serious about this type of thing and wants every advantage possible then they should skip right to high spec filmless tubes IMO.
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Hey TNVC sam your signed in on the wrong account... sorry sarcasm
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 1:01:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GradyMStack:



Awesome info, thank you!

Really seems like the Photonis 4g echo with white phosphur is by far and away the best bang for the buck. 95% of the time I’d be using it there are street lamps, porch lights, etc within a few hundred feet at most so given I won’t ever really encounter anything close to total darkness it sounds like they may even perform better than some of the gen 3 options.
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I think so in your situation and especially using it around street lamps, porch lights, etc. it will work a little bit better than most gen 3. Another spec I would try to get is a low halo. As far below 1.0 as you can get. It will make a big difference with all of the lights.

Worse case, later on down the road you can always sell it, and move up to a good gen 3 device. It's inevitable, lol.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 1:16:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 1:17:13 PM EDT by will-1]
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Originally Posted By IAm4:


Hey TNVC sam your signed in on the wrong account... sorry sarcasm
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Lol. I only keep emphasizing filmless WP as the best because IMO it is. High spec that is. Believe me, my going on and on about high spec filmless WP has pissed off plenty of sellers and probably including TNVC.

I haven't used the higher spec thin filmed Elbit tubes but they are still filmed tubes. There is a difference in the technology and performance and I can spot it in most pics/videos. If someone wants to change my mind they can send me one to check out, lol. I'm not convinced enough to buy one to find out for myself especially after Synyster06Gates bought both, kept the filmless, and returned the thin filmed.

I'm not saying they are bad tubes and I'm sure they are awesome. Just like the Echos & thin filmed green phosphor are great tubes. But...IMO if what you want is the very best and you're willing to pay for it (and you will, lol) then that will be the highest spec filmless WP you can get.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 1:17:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By will-1:


I think so in your situation and especially using it around street lamps, porch lights, etc. it will work a little bit better than most gen 3. Another spec I would try to get is a low halo. As far below 1.0 as you can get. It will make a big difference with all of the lights.

Worse case, later on down the road you can always sell it, and move up to a good gen 3 device. It's inevitable, lol.
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True. In those situations, my anvis 9 tubes with low halo are fantastic vs my other gen 3.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 1:21:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 1:27:20 PM EDT by Caeser2001]
Originally Posted By GradyMStack:

Initially I wrote off the model with the Photonis 4g echo tube due to being listed as gen 2+ and felt like I’d better just pony up the extra money for a gen 3 of any kind.
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Really it’s just going to come down to what are the best specs you can get within your budget. My 2200 fom echos from night goggles blow the doors off my 1600 fom “any kind of gen 3” L3 Omni viii I bought 8 years ago. While the L3 has a brighter image in really dark conditions, there’s a lot of scintillation due to the low 25 snr that it produces a really fuzzy image.

Originally Posted By GradyMStack:



Awesome info, thank you!

Really seems like the Photonis 4g echo with white phosphur is by far and away the best bang for the buck. 95% of the time I’d be using it there are street lamps, porch lights, etc within a few hundred feet at most so given I won’t ever really encounter anything close to total darkness it sounds like they may even perform better than some of the gen 3 options.
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In this case the echos will be more than enough. As Will said, get lowest halo possible. Also shoot for an EBI under 1 (it will be 0.1 on the photonis spec sheet). Both of my echos have a 0.00 halo on spec sheets. You’ll definitely want want as low as halo as you can get. My L3 has a 1.0 halo. I’ll get some pictures after work of the difference, it’s a pretty big difference.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 1:33:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Caeser2001:

Both of my echos have a 0.00 halo on spec sheets. You’ll definitely want want as low as halo as you can get. My L3 has a 1.0 halo. I’ll get some pictures after work of the difference, it’s a pretty big difference.
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Wow, yes, pics plz!

I want to see what a 0.00 halo looks like. That's nuts.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 1:42:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By will-1:


Lol. I only keep emphasizing filmless WP as the best because IMO it is. High spec that is. Believe me, my going on and on about high spec filmless WP has pissed off plenty of sellers and probably including TNVC.
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Originally Posted By will-1:


Lol. I only keep emphasizing filmless WP as the best because IMO it is. High spec that is. Believe me, my going on and on about high spec filmless WP has pissed off plenty of sellers and probably including TNVC.


And I advocate that most people will be well served by a much cheaper say omni 7 green tube. Not everyone, but for the $1000 price difference of a used one most people I think would be very happy.

Originally Posted By will-1:
I'm not convinced enough to buy one to find out for myself especially after Synyster06Gates bought both, kept the filmless, and returned the thin filmed.


And I am temped to buy one of the filmless too, but no longer being able to ask for a higher spec from them is what has stopped me. I mean if I am buying a blem unit and I got a 52 line 25 snr when I know they have 72 line 33 snr I would be pissed. Halo does not bother me, I am in the woods so I dont have lots of lights to cause halo. Which is why I am fine with what the agm50 does. I have like 2200 bucks in my agm50 with omni 7 tubes, i wont complain.

Link Posted: 5/22/2020 2:27:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 2:37:55 PM EDT by will-1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By IAm4:


And I advocate that most people will be well served by a much cheaper say omni 7 green tube. Not everyone, but for the $1000 price difference of a used one most people I think would be very happy.

Ageeed


And I am temped to buy one of the filmless too, but no longer being able to ask for a higher spec from them is what has stopped me. I mean if I am buying a blem unit and I got a 52 line 25 snr when I know they have 72 line 33 snr I would be pissed. Halo does not bother me, I am in the woods so I dont have lots of lights to cause halo. Which is why I am fine with what the agm50 does. I have like 2200 bucks in my agm50 with omni 7 tubes, i wont complain.

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Either we (users/buyers) were becoming too much of a PITA or the good tubes are drying up or maybe both. Probably #1, lol. It sucks they changed it but I supposed it's the nature of the beast. Same reason why every other dealers does not do it either, letting people pick, etc. With higher demand there's no way it makes sense to do it. As the waiting list grows I can imagine trying to contact each person down the line gets to be a huge PITA especially if people can't make a decision saying "let me get back to you" etc. and you know that happens more often than not.

ETA: It'd be nice if they would list all of the minimums so people know what they might get. Since they are 1701 tubes it makes sense they don't because the minimums can suck which is what made the "pick your tube" such as good deal with these. As long as their return policy is good it shouldn't be a problem but that leads back to losing the ability to pick tubes. At some point there will be too many returns and that will end too.

Great example why you sometimes you have to snag good deals/offers while you can because nothing lasts forever.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 2:32:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 2:32:44 PM EDT by CDN_Datawraith]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:
Either we (users/buyers) were becoming too much of a PITA or the good tubes are drying up or maybe both. Probably #1, lol. It sucks they changed it but I supposed it's the nature of the beast. Same reason why every other dealers does not do it either, letting people pick, etc. With higher demand there's no way it makes sense to do it. As the waiting list grows I can imagine trying to contact each person down the line gets to be a huge PITA especially if people can't make a decision saying "let me get back to you" etc. and you know that happens more often than not.
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Isn't that how TNVC does things though where they'll allow a choice of hand-select? Maybe that's why they have a constant backlogged waiting list lol. Even with significantly extended wait times, I much prefer doing it that way; good things come to those who wait, and when we're paying that much money for something that varies in quality by that much, I'd like it to be as good as I can get.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 2:41:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 2:42:18 PM EDT by will-1]
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Originally Posted By CDN_Datawraith:


Isn't that how TNVC does things though where they'll allow a choice of hand-select? Maybe that's why they have a constant backlogged waiting list lol. Even with significantly extended wait times, I much prefer doing it that way; good things come to those who wait, and when we're paying that much money for something that varies in quality by that much, I'd like it to be as good as I can get.
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@TNVC_Augee went into a lot of detail explaining how they do it. I don't know if they just match the specs to the request or if they call the hand select guys to give them options if it's close when it's their turn.

The way I believe N-Vision did it was once the tubes come in, they start calling down the list. Each guy would get his choice of what is available. Obviously you want to be higher on the list, lol
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 2:43:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 2:44:47 PM EDT by CDN_Datawraith]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:
@TNVC_Augee went into a lot of detail explaining how they do it. I don't know if the always match the specs to the request or if they call the hand select guys to give them options if it's close when it's their turn.

The way I believe N-Vision did it was once the tubes come in, they start calling down the list. Each guy would get his choice of what is available. Obviously you want to be higher on the list, lol
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Huh, yea I can see how N-Vision's method would be a lot more time consuming and labour intensive and why they would stop doing that. I bet it was really nice for buyers when it was still an available service though!
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 2:52:32 PM EDT
I wonder what they would if you called and said, meet these specs I buy. if not I go somewhere else that will. And be ready to do it, no bluffing
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:12:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 5:19:24 PM EDT by GradyMStack]
So I found a pvs-14 gen 3 white phosphur unit for $3250 locally. Here is the spec sheet... I haven’t the slightest what all this means... Can someone help decipher this?

Removed image
They let me look around in the fully lit shop with some cover with a tiny pin hole on the front. For whatever that’s worth... gave me no idea what it would look like in darkness. But I was surprised how high resolution the image it produced appeared. And the blemish shown on the spec sheet wasn’t annoying at all.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:24:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 3:27:11 PM EDT by IAm4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GradyMStack:
So I found a pvs-14 gen 3 white phosphur unit for $3250 locally. Here is the spec sheet... I haven’t the slightest what all this means... Can someone help decipher this?

https://i.imgur.com/QY0V43s.jpg

They let me look around in the fully lit shop with some cover with a tiny pin hole on the front. For whatever that’s worth... gave me no idea what it would look like in darkness. But I was surprised how high resolution the image it produced appeared. And the blemish shown on the spec sheet wasn’t annoying at all.
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No, for that that price you can do better.

go read this thread and see what you can get for that price.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/2728-FOM-Filmless-L3-WP-vs-2698-FOM-Elbit-XLSH-w-pics-and-videos-updated-with-more-pics-/18-511103/


Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:32:35 PM EDT
Hard pass especially at that price which is

Take your time and I’d wait and see what’s going to pop up on Night Goggles like Sam was talking about.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:33:40 PM EDT
I believe posting images of gen 3 spec sheets violates ITAR so you may want to remove the image and just type the specs. Those specs don't look very good to me though.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:44:04 PM EDT
It’s also an AGM, which aren’t known for the greatest quality.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:48:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GradyMStack:
So I found a pvs-14 gen 3 white phosphur unit for $3250 locally. Here is the spec sheet... I haven’t the slightest what all this means... Can someone help decipher this?

https://i.imgur.com/QY0V43s.jpg

They let me look around in the fully lit shop with some cover with a tiny pin hole on the front. For whatever that’s worth... gave me no idea what it would look like in darkness. But I was surprised how high resolution the image it produced appeared. And the blemish shown on the spec sheet wasn’t annoying at all.
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HARD pass for that price.  Might be an export tube with those numbers.   Also, not sure if that is a factory data sheet so it might not apply to ITAR.  However, i could be entirely wrong in that department.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:49:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CDN_Datawraith:
I believe posting images of gen 3 spec sheets violates ITAR so you may want to remove the image and just type the specs. Those specs don't look very good to me though.
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Don't know if it applies to bogus AF data records like this. Checklists are different and the real data record (aka spec sheet) comes with it.

Hopefully they are sending the real data records along with this.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 3:56:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2020 3:59:34 PM EDT by will-1]
Sellers sending out devices with tubes that have no data records or custom data records is a NO GO for me.
ETA: "New" devices/tubes that is.

Especially at these kinds of prices that is downright predatory because they know only uneducated buyers will buy it at that $$.  

Link Posted: 5/22/2020 4:05:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GradyMStack:
So I found a pvs-14 gen 3 white phosphur unit for $3250 locally. Here is the spec sheet... I haven’t the slightest what all this means... Can someone help decipher this?

https://i.imgur.com/QY0V43s.jpg

They let me look around in the fully lit shop with some cover with a tiny pin hole on the front. For whatever that’s worth... gave me no idea what it would look like in darkness. But I was surprised how high resolution the image it produced appeared. And the blemish shown on the spec sheet wasn’t annoying at all.
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That’s cute how the AGM sheet looks like they just took a screenshot from excel for the blem chart... if you’re gonna roll your own sheets you might as well make it look half decent lol. Or just do the headers printed on top of the factory sheets like some guys do.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 4:06:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jwramp:

That’s cute how the AGM sheet looks like they just took a screenshot from excel for the blem chart... if you’re gonna roll your own sheets you might as well make it look half decent lol. Or just do the headers printed on top of the factory sheets like some guys do.
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And there's no tube serial# so WTF are you paying $3,200 for??!!
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 4:13:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 4:23:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Augee:


The tube S/N is on there, scrawled in with a ballpoint pen by someone different than whomever wrote the other values down.

Not that that helps you with no manufacturer information or any real information on what the tube is other than "MX11769" and a similarly scrawled "W," which I guess is supposed to indicate white phosphor?

Is there anything actually indicating that it's a Gen. 3? AGM/Apache sells a bunch of different PVS-14s in both Gen. 2 and Gen. 3 flavors...

~Augee
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I must be pretty agitated and going too fast, lol. I meant tube p/n  etc.

I am really curious what the invoice says it is. If it does that is.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 4:27:19 PM EDT
^ Below average S/N, doesnt show EBI or halo either. Its also a AGM build which is considered lower quality.

Pass, for that price you should be getting much better. Whats your budget?
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 5:23:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CDN_Datawraith:
I believe posting images of gen 3 spec sheets violates ITAR so you may want to remove the image and just type the specs. Those specs don't look very good to me though.
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I had no idea thank you for the heads up. Image removed.
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 5:27:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2020 7:13:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:


This applies to official data sheets, not numbers pulled from who knows where!
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Oh well it seemed like it was deemed a turd anyways. As of now I think the TNVC offering with the Photonis 4g echo is my best option. But I’m gonna hold out and see what it is that’s coming out in a few weeks.
Link Posted: 5/23/2020 12:55:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By will-1:


Wow, yes, pics plz!

I want to see what a 0.00 halo looks like. That's nuts.
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Originally Posted By will-1:
Originally Posted By Caeser2001:

Both of my echos have a 0.00 halo on spec sheets. You’ll definitely want want as low as halo as you can get. My L3 has a 1.0 halo. I’ll get some pictures after work of the difference, it’s a pretty big difference.


Wow, yes, pics plz!

I want to see what a 0.00 halo looks like. That's nuts.


I assumed it was a mistake when they were reading off specs. There’s still halo around lights but it’s more transparent for lack of a better word. Pics aren’t turning out that great with my new phone. I’ll have to try again another night with my old one. It seemed to take better pics.
Link Posted: 5/23/2020 8:23:00 AM EDT
Robert at JRH Enterprises has Gen 3 WP on sale this weekend for $3095. Mention arfcom and get free shipping too.
Link Posted: 5/23/2020 11:37:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2020 11:43:50 AM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 5/23/2020 12:22:38 PM EDT
TNVC.  we need to talk very soon, I need put on a list for a new white filmless
Link Posted: 5/23/2020 12:44:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2020 8:23:34 AM EDT
Waiting to hear what this new TNVC offering is. But in the mean time I have ordered a Team Wendy exfil ltp bump helmet and a Wilcox g11 mount.

So now if I understand correctly all I need is the pvs-14 and the j-arm. Still researching IR laser and illuminator options.

I was looking around on NV inc’s website and saw they offer two different Photonis options. One called
“Photonis gen 2+ white” and another called “Photonis hybrid white” the latter of which is about $400 more. I assume it’s just a higher spec tube... I’ve emailed them but haven’t heard back and when I tried calling I get sent to voicemail and haven’t heard back there either. Anyone know the difference?
Link Posted: 5/31/2020 8:53:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2020 9:29:28 AM EDT by PMB1086]
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Originally Posted By GradyMStack:
Waiting to hear what this new TNVC offering is. But in the mean time I have ordered a Team Wendy exfil ltp bump helmet and a Wilcox g11 mount.

So now if I understand correctly all I need is the pvs-14 and the j-arm. Still researching IR laser and illuminator options.

I was looking around on NV inc’s website and saw they offer two different Photonis options. One called
“Photonis gen 2+ white” and another called “Photonis hybrid white” the latter of which is about $400 more. I assume it’s just a higher spec tube... I’ve emailed them but haven’t heard back and when I tried calling I get sent to voicemail and haven’t heard back there either. Anyone know the difference?
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It looks like that helmet comes with a shroud to attach the mount to the hemet so yes, all you need is the PVS-14 and the j-arm.


I'm in a similar you, just getting into night vision. I'm waiting on a PVS-14 I ordered from TNVC, I think all of their PVS-14s come with a j-arm. I already have the stuff to mount it to my head and I'm looking for an IR light/laser now.
Link Posted: 5/31/2020 9:31:27 AM EDT
The Steiner otal seems like a good IR laser only option for “cheap” comparatively... Not too sure how necessary an illuminator will be for me as I live downtown in a small city with lots of light pollution.

And indeed the helmet I got has an integrated Wilcox shroud. I was about to go with a rhino II mount off eBay for cheap but decided to go with the g11 because it has some feature of tightening the lock up of the bayonet horned interface deal from the j arm to the mount itself.

What tube did you end up going with for your pvs-14?

That decision is definitely my biggest hang up right now.
Link Posted: 5/31/2020 11:05:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2020 11:08:54 AM EDT by PMB1086]
I went with the Gen 3 Thin-Filmed White Phosphor. I figure it would be more than good enough for the casual use it will see.
Link Posted: 5/31/2020 11:22:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Caeser2001:


Really it’s just going to come down to what are the best specs you can get within your budget. My 2200 fom echos from night goggles blow the doors off my 1600 fom “any kind of gen 3” L3 Omni viii I bought 8 years ago. While the L3 has a brighter image in really dark conditions, there’s a lot of scintillation due to the low 25 snr that it produces a really fuzzy image.



In this case the echos will be more than enough. As Will said, get lowest halo possible. Also shoot for an EBI under 1 (it will be 0.1 on the photonis spec sheet). Both of my echos have a 0.00 halo on spec sheets. You’ll definitely want want as low as halo as you can get. My L3 has a 1.0 halo. I’ll get some pictures after work of the difference, it’s a pretty big difference.
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Are the halo Numbers on the photonis spec sheets off a decimal point as well? I know the EBI is. That .00 is still crazy....
Link Posted: 5/31/2020 11:22:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2020 7:56:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2020 8:01:47 PM EDT by MunnyShot]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Augee:


A good illuminator and low light performance is more important in areas urban/suburban areas and areas with a lot of mixed/artificial/ambient light if you're planning on doing anything serious.

I've been meaning to do a write up on this for a while but haven't gotten around to it...

Long story short, urban conditions means a lot of photonic barriers and a lot of dark darks, structures, etc., you need every ounce of performance you can get.

Poorer performing devices being "okay" for "high light conditions" is a false equivalency. If there's "high light" no NODs is often better than NODs, and the shadows can be deeper and darker, especially inside structures. In rural areas ambient lighting tends to be more uniform (at least with like overhead cover), you can either see or you can't, but if it's too dark for your Gen. 3 NOD to keep up then there's not many other things that will do better except for thermal for detection, but ID may still be difficult as will navigation. In an urban environment, you could be backlit against ambient light and not able to see deep enough into the shadows before a bad guy gets the drop on you.

Bounding down a dimly lit city street with NODs and crossing multiple linear danger areas and unknown structures in a non-permissive environment is pretty stressful--you want all the performance you can get.

~Augee
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This is excellent advice as usual, but you may want to put it in more civi terms, so non mil/leos don't have to Google how bounding down a street correlates to having a high output illuminator.
Link Posted: 6/1/2020 1:30:18 AM EDT
I'm torn on MAWL C1 and Atpial-C. Mawl seems better performing, but Atpial is smaller, cheaper, and so forth.
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