Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page Armory » M-16
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/15/2018 1:31:50 PM EDT
In this thread in GD about Nolo's FOIA requests for the Las Vegas shooting, @TheTaxMonkey noticed this slide about AR15 conversions:

Attachment Attached File


I've never heard of one, and Google has no meaningful results. WTF is it? How does it work? Are there any transferable "swift links"?
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 2:55:16 PM EDT
Looks like a more complex "Lightening Link" to me.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 3:06:09 PM EDT
No idea, but I'm curious too.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 4:13:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LDL7071:  In this thread in GD about Nolo's FOIA requests for the Las Vegas shooting, @TheTaxMonkey noticed this slide about AR15 conversions:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/224641/CaptureS-640575.JPG

I've never heard of one, and Google has no meaningful results. WTF is it? How does it work? Are there any transferable "swift links"?
View Quote
Edit:   On second thought I will wait for explicit approval before posting.

Edit #2ish:

Yeah that really caught my attention.

I don't know for certain, have not tried, and have no intention to try this out (or otherwise violate federal law) but this is my best guess (please feel free to pick it apart).

A LL requires a SP1 or a cut bolt carrier. According to the ATF, that works "somewhat like a LL" but requires an M16 bolt carrier.

So how does it work? My best guess:  The "U" shaped part resembles the back end of a DIAS so that tells me it fits under the rear take down pin. The nub near the top is what the bolt carrier trips when it travels forward.

So the bolt carrier travels home after you fire and the back end trips the nub pushing the "swift link" thus allowing "something" to release the hammer.

The device either holds the hammer (instead of the disconnector) or it somehow interacts with the disconnector (like a LL).
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 4:34:43 PM EDT
In.

Is that one or two pieces and maybe a part isn't shown?
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 4:52:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 4:54:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TheTaxMonkey, I sent you a message.
View Quote
Thanks.  I am really, really glad I asked.    
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 6:39:06 PM EDT
why did I click a link to a 21 page thread with even more links, damnit.

No idea how that would work
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 7:02:10 PM EDT
I thought this was a Taylor Swift thread

Link Posted: 8/17/2018 11:07:31 AM EDT
fits under the read take down lug,

bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A
Link Posted: 8/17/2018 11:49:37 AM EDT
Any installed pics? Doesn't seem like the lower part would reach the disco but I could be wrong, hard to tell the size with no reference
Link Posted: 8/17/2018 2:06:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2018 5:00:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Sorry, if anyone posts photos or plans, or links to them, they will be deleted. CofC violation. This is a discussion of how these might work -- NOT a how-to guide.
View Quote
so if a 02 post of pics of something they did it would get deleted?


how is that a CoC violation?
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 3:40:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
fits under the read take down lug,

bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A
View Quote
Google x-ray photos of AR's and the long leg looks like the perfect length to fit between the disco and BCG, looks like the two pictures on the left show a little nub sticking off the top of the longest leg possibly to catch the carrier?  It must have a loose fit around the lug so it can pivot as it doesn't look like there is a hinge of any kind.  I want to figure out how this thing works just for the fact that it was the ATF who showed us it exists if it wasn't one of their guys who invented it.  For someone with an SOT it functions safely like a lighnting link, but without the need for an oddball carrier and it looks about 100 times easier to make.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 6:13:51 AM EDT
So he didn’t use a bump stock?
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 10:19:13 AM EDT
I have an RLL, the link itself is much longer than the paddle. Hard to see how this would work with the shown dimensions but  ¯\_(?)_/¯   Ya who knows
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 1:40:22 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Any installed pics? Doesn't seem like the lower part would reach the disco but I could be wrong, hard to tell the size with no reference
View Quote
I think it does reach he disconnector because I can't see any other way for it to work.  The hammer isn't held in place by it.

So, my best guess, the nub on the top portion would be tripped by the BCG when it rides home pushing the "Swift link" which depresses the disconnector.

Do that and the hammer falls.

Anybody have a better idea?  
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 6:00:44 PM EDT
Can someone tell me what GD stands for?  I have seen this posted in forums a lot...
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 6:25:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can someone tell me what GD stands for?  I have seen this posted in forums a lot...
View Quote
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/General-Discussion/5/
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 6:48:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
fits under the read take down lug,

bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A
View Quote
I believe you are correct.
Link Posted: 8/18/2018 6:57:55 PM EDT
Any transferables out there, or is this post86 design?
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 9:45:06 AM EDT
still cool given I've never heard of this before
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 12:57:12 PM EDT
Were these devices actually used in the Vegas shooting?
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 1:40:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 1:48:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Why would you use both these AND bumpstocks, on the same gun?
View Quote
Shithead had multiple guns. 
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 1:53:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Edit:   On second thought I will wait for explicit approval before posting.

Edit #2ish:

Yeah that really caught my attention.

I don't know for certain, have not tried, and have no intention to try this out (or otherwise violate federal law) but this is my best guess (please feel free to pick it apart).

 A LL requires a SP1 or a cut bolt carrier. According to the ATF, that works "somewhat like a LL" but requires an M16 bolt carrier.

So how does it work? My best guess:  The "U" shaped part resembles the back end of a DIAS so that tells me it fits under the rear take down pin. The nub near the top is what the bolt carrier trips when it travels forward.

So the bolt carrier travels home after you fire and the back end trips the nub pushing the "swift link" thus allowing "something" to release the hammer.

The device either holds the hammer (instead of the disconnector) or it somehow interacts with the disconnector (like a LL).
View Quote
This makes sense.  It is hard to judge scale, but it is a bit larger than I was first imagining, so this makes it more clear.  The slight slot cut in the part probably helps clear the right wall.  I keep going back to this cutaway to visualize it, so I will just post it here.  If this wasn't spring steel, I would expect that it would just flatten out after a short amount of rounds. 

What is killing me is that I spent almost $400 each for a couple echo triggers when a $2 part would do what it seems to do, without stupid laws.

Link Posted: 8/20/2018 2:19:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Why would you use both these AND bumpstocks, on the same gun?
View Quote
Who says he did?

He seemed to have a collection of different firearms with different configs.

The facts surrounding this shooting have been pretty much covered up. Other than the leaked photos, what do we really know.....
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 4:11:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 4:12:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 11:39:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This makes sense.  It is hard to judge scale, but it is a bit larger than I was first imagining, so this makes it more clear.  The slight slot cut in the part probably helps clear the right wall.  I keep going back to this cutaway to visualize it, so I will just post it here.  If this wasn't spring steel, I would expect that it would just flatten out after a short amount of rounds. 

What is killing me is that I spent almost $400 each for a couple echo triggers when a $2 part would do what it seems to do, without stupid laws.

https://i.imgur.com/7XxVGJa.jpg
View Quote
You think $400 is bad? A lighting link, which is basically what this is runs $15,000 or more. Want to use M16 bcg and giessele trigger? Going to need a DIAS for that at $35,000+
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 2:44:56 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why would you use both these AND bumpstocks, on the same gun?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Were these devices actually used in the Vegas shooting?
Why would you use both these AND bumpstocks, on the same gun?
The LVPD in charge released a crap ton of witness statements and interviews (3,000+ pages) and at least one of those interviews covered the shooter's interest in DIAS and machine gun conversion devices in general.   From other information they released, he had the cash to buy legal machine guns (belt feds at that).

As for why he would use a conversion device AND a bumpstock?   One guess would be legal cover if he shot them (at a range, whatever) and someone asked him about his ROF or if he was somehow discovered.   "Oh yeah; it's a bump stock.   Here, let me show you how it works..."

Or maybe he just used bump stocks.    All I know for certain is the federal and local governments involved have gone out of their way to obfuscate and muddy the waters of this investigation.

Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room.   Why?  I wish I knew.
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 2:52:13 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
fits under the read take down lug,

bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A
View Quote
The more I think about it the more I am sure this is how it works.

18 USC 922 (o) can go straight to hell.  
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 3:50:07 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sorry, if anyone posts photos or plans, or links to them, they will be deleted. CofC violation. This is a discussion of how these might work -- NOT a how-to guide.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any installed pics? Doesn't seem like the lower part would reach the disco but I could be wrong, hard to tell the size with no reference
Sorry, if anyone posts photos or plans, or links to them, they will be deleted. CofC violation. This is a discussion of how these might work -- NOT a how-to guide.
Your post is slightly as ridiculous as the ATF calling a shoestring an illlegal machinegun.

How is a picture of a firearm part a COC violation?
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 9:27:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:.

Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room.   Why?  I wish I knew.
View Quote
They were not allowed to examine them at the crime scene. Once the scene was secured and tagged, it was done.
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 2:29:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 5:34:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They were not allowed to examine them at the crime scene. Once the scene was secured and tagged, it was done.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:.

Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room.   Why?  I wish I knew.
They were not allowed to examine them at the crime scene. Once the scene was secured and tagged, it was done.
The ATF was allowed to examine the weapons?    Do you have anything that supports this or any conclusions drawn from those examinations?

Attachment Attached File


Here is the slide I referenced although that could easily discuss, as you said, the actual crime scene and not the weapons later on.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 9:08:48 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your post is slightly as ridiculous as the ATF calling a shoestring an illlegal machinegun.  
How is a picture of a firearm part a COC violation?
Please read the following:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/THE-RULES-FOR-THIS-FORUM/23-199936/
CoC states:
"No questions about or discussion of anything illegal."
"What is allowed: --Posting pictures of anything NFA"

If you believe that pictures would be of an illegal device/configuration, than this entire thread is a CoC violation. (which it seems not to be)
If you believe that this device/configuration can be produced by an SOT, than pictures are allowed under CoC rules.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 3:00:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 3:07:46 PM EDT
What Tony says. When he started moderating, the M16 forum was a joke, 90% of posts were asking for illegal things. In fact, I myself did not even join before he took over it was so bad. He (and later David) cleaned it up into the usable forum we have today. 15+ years of service, he should get a gold watch or something.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 4:07:20 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What Tony says. When he started moderating, the M16 forum was a joke, 90% of posts were asking for illegal things. In fact, I myself did not even join before he took over it was so bad. He (and later David) cleaned it up into the usable forum we have today. 15+ years of service, he should get a gold watch or something.
View Quote
Same. I'm down with the rules. There are plenty of places you can go to find ways to illegally (legally if you have a FFL/SOT) convert semi-auto to full-autos, but this website is not one of them.

And lets be honest, if you have a FFL/SOT that allows you to legally manufacturer MGs you probably don't need to go rooting around on forums asking how to covert a semi-auto to full-auto, I think you already know that. And if you are new and need help there are people here that can point you in the right direction on where to obtain that information.

This forum is just way to public and a center of attention to host that kind of information.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 8:28:50 PM EDT
Tony, thanks for the great job you are doing here.
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge, compiling an M-16 S\N data base, -xxx,.
I recall exchanging a few early ones with you.
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 9:08:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2018 10:27:36 PM EDT
IIRC I recall seeing an advert for that on a different forum, several years ago.
"A simple piece of metal cut to the correct dimensions, simply bend following the enclosed properly sized template........."
It may even have had part of the bends made to 80% construction, LOL!
Probably ended up like SGN guy, we know all about him and his pre-81........
Link Posted: 8/24/2018 7:43:07 AM EDT
Whoa, let's take a step back here, guys. No one's dedication, hard work, or authority was being questioned. I simply posed a scenario based on the written rules, which were being waved overhead.

I, too, find the part interesting and would have liked to see a pic of installation. I understand there are individuals seeking information for the sole intent of nefarious activities. With as unclear the COC is written, the line wasn't drawn well enough to decipher. We have a forum where anyone can explain, in detail, as well as post pics of creating SBR's, SBS's, AOW's, DD's, and even homemade Silencers. A simple picture of the device installed didn't seem out of line. Of course, they're all legal (with permission), but so is something Mfr'd by a licensee. After all, the device was pictured and several descriptions of how it functioned were offered as well as its employment.

I didn't feel a second request was out of line, but it wasn't my call.

Sorry to derail, carry on
Link Posted: 9/2/2018 12:11:08 PM EDT
Curiosity got the better of me so I dropped the picture of the swift link into Fusion 360 and traced the outline.

At first I thought it must install in this orientation.



Two things proved this to not be the case. An SP1 carrier would have been needed and the part that had been ground on the side for clearance would not have been in the right place.

I then flipped it around and got this.



The dimensions are way off but you get the idea. The M16 carrier hits the bend and pushes down on the disconnector.

I can't imagine it would last long or be reliable.

Others have already described the operation I just couldn't wrap my head around it till I drew it up.

Hopefully this is not outside the bounds of discussion since it's just a drawing.
Link Posted: 9/2/2018 2:26:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Curiosity got the better of me so I dropped the picture of the swift link into Fusion 360 and traced the outline.

At first I thought it must install in this orientation.

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Swift-Link-1-1.jpg

Two things proved this to not be the case. An SP1 carrier would have been needed and the part that had been ground on the side for clearance would not have been in the right place.

I then flipped it around and got this.

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Swift-Link-2.jpg

The dimensions are way off but you get the idea. The M16 carrier hits the bend and pushes down on the disconnector.

I can't imagine it would last long or be reliable.

Others have already described the operation I just couldn't wrap my head around it till I drew it up.

Hopefully this is not outside the bounds of discussion since it's just a drawing.
View Quote
that second one looks like a winner.

I dont think this is outside the bounds, as it theoretical and awesome to boot
Link Posted: 9/2/2018 11:12:16 PM EDT
Wow ya I was picturing the first way the entire time. I’d still be surprised to see that run reliably...someone needs to post sample it lol
Link Posted: 9/2/2018 11:17:43 PM EDT
I'd say reliability has a lot to do with the ability of the metal to retain its shape.
Link Posted: 9/3/2018 2:37:39 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd say reliability has a lot to do with the ability of the metal to retain its shape.
View Quote
That's my thinking as well.
Link Posted: 9/3/2018 7:32:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'd say reliability has a lot to do with the ability of the metal to retain its shape.
View Quote
heat treated tool steel would probably work
Link Posted: 9/3/2018 8:05:22 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The LVPD in charge released a crap ton of witness statements and interviews (3,000+ pages) and at least one of those interviews covered the shooter's interest in DIAS and machine gun conversion devices in general.   From other information they released, he had the cash to buy legal machine guns (belt feds at that).

As for why he would use a conversion device AND a bumpstock?   One guess would be legal cover if he shot them (at a range, whatever) and someone asked him about his ROF or if he was somehow discovered.   "Oh yeah; it's a bump stock.   Here, let me show you how it works..."

Or maybe he just used bump stocks.    All I know for certain is the federal and local governments involved have gone out of their way to obfuscate and muddy the waters of this investigation.

Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room.   Why?  I wish I knew.
View Quote
In every video I've heard/watched...the rate of fire varied too much to be anything BUT a bump stock or some form of bumpfire....
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Page Armory » M-16
An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator.

If you are the system administrator please click here to find out more about this error.