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Posted: 8/15/2018 1:31:50 PM EDT
In this thread in GD about Nolo's FOIA requests for the Las Vegas shooting, @TheTaxMonkey noticed this slide about AR15 conversions:
 Attached FileI've never heard of one, and Google has no meaningful results. WTF is it? How does it work? Are there any transferable "swift links"? |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 2:55:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Looks like a more complex "Lightening Link" to me.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 3:06:09 PM EDT
[#2]
No idea, but I'm curious too.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 4:13:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By LDL7071: In this thread in GD about Nolo's FOIA requests for the Las Vegas shooting, @TheTaxMonkey noticed this slide about AR15 conversions: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/224641/CaptureS-640575.JPG I've never heard of one, and Google has no meaningful results. WTF is it? How does it work? Are there any transferable "swift links"? Edit #2ish: Yeah that really caught my attention. I don't know for certain, have not tried, and have no intention to try this out (or otherwise violate federal law) but this is my best guess (please feel free to pick it apart). A LL requires a SP1 or a cut bolt carrier. According to the ATF, that works "somewhat like a LL" but requires an M16 bolt carrier. So how does it work? My best guess: The "U" shaped part resembles the back end of a DIAS so that tells me it fits under the rear take down pin. The nub near the top is what the bolt carrier trips when it travels forward. So the bolt carrier travels home after you fire and the back end trips the nub pushing the "swift link" thus allowing "something" to release the hammer. The device either holds the hammer (instead of the disconnector) or it somehow interacts with the disconnector (like a LL). |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 4:34:43 PM EDT
[#4]
In.
Is that one or two pieces and maybe a part isn't shown? |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 4:52:08 PM EDT
[#5]
TheTaxMonkey, I sent you a message.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 4:54:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TheTaxMonkey, I sent you a message. 
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Posted: 8/15/2018 6:39:06 PM EDT
[#7]
why did I click a link to a 21 page thread with even more links, damnit.
No idea how that would work |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 7:02:10 PM EDT
[#8]
I thought this was a Taylor Swift thread
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Posted: 8/17/2018 11:07:31 AM EDT
[#9]
fits under the read take down lug,
bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 11:49:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Any installed pics? Doesn't seem like the lower part would reach the disco but I could be wrong, hard to tell the size with no reference
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Posted: 8/17/2018 2:06:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any installed pics? Doesn't seem like the lower part would reach the disco but I could be wrong, hard to tell the size with no reference |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 5:00:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, if anyone posts photos or plans, or links to them, they will be deleted. CofC violation. This is a discussion of how these might work -- NOT a how-to guide. 
how is that a CoC violation? |
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Posted: 8/18/2018 3:40:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
fits under the read take down lug, bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A |
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Posted: 8/18/2018 6:13:51 AM EDT
[#14]
So he didn’t use a bump stock?
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Posted: 8/18/2018 10:19:13 AM EDT
[#15]
I have an RLL, the link itself is much longer than the paddle. Hard to see how this would work with the shown dimensions but ¯\_(?)_/¯ Ya who knows
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Posted: 8/18/2018 1:40:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any installed pics? Doesn't seem like the lower part would reach the disco but I could be wrong, hard to tell the size with no reference So, my best guess, the nub on the top portion would be tripped by the BCG when it rides home pushing the "Swift link" which depresses the disconnector. Do that and the hammer falls. Anybody have a better idea?
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Posted: 8/18/2018 6:00:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Can someone tell me what GD stands for? I have seen this posted in forums a lot...
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Posted: 8/18/2018 6:25:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can someone tell me what GD stands for? I have seen this posted in forums a lot... |
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Posted: 8/18/2018 6:48:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
fits under the read take down lug, bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A |
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Posted: 8/18/2018 6:57:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Any transferables out there, or is this post86 design?
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Posted: 8/20/2018 9:45:06 AM EDT
[#21]
still cool given I've never heard of this before
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Posted: 8/20/2018 12:57:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Were these devices actually used in the Vegas shooting?
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Posted: 8/20/2018 1:40:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were these devices actually used in the Vegas shooting? |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 1:48:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you use both these AND bumpstocks, on the same gun? |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 1:53:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Edit: On second thought I will wait for explicit approval before posting. Edit #2ish: Yeah that really caught my attention. I don't know for certain, have not tried, and have no intention to try this out (or otherwise violate federal law) but this is my best guess (please feel free to pick it apart). A LL requires a SP1 or a cut bolt carrier. According to the ATF, that works "somewhat like a LL" but requires an M16 bolt carrier. So how does it work? My best guess: The "U" shaped part resembles the back end of a DIAS so that tells me it fits under the rear take down pin. The nub near the top is what the bolt carrier trips when it travels forward. So the bolt carrier travels home after you fire and the back end trips the nub pushing the "swift link" thus allowing "something" to release the hammer. The device either holds the hammer (instead of the disconnector) or it somehow interacts with the disconnector (like a LL). What is killing me is that I spent almost $400 each for a couple echo triggers when a $2 part would do what it seems to do, without stupid laws. 
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Posted: 8/20/2018 2:19:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you use both these AND bumpstocks, on the same gun? He seemed to have a collection of different firearms with different configs. The facts surrounding this shooting have been pretty much covered up. Other than the leaked photos, what do we really know..... |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 4:11:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who says he did? He seemed to have a collection of different firearms with different configs. He also had multiple bumpstocks from the photos I have seen. Given that the firing technique for those is the exact opposite from firing a true full-auto (including conversions such as this), IMHO it would be counterproductive to move back and forth, changing technique. But then again, the guy was crazy, so who knows? The facts surrounding this shooting have been pretty much covered up. Other than the leaked photos, what do we really know..... very true |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 4:12:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shithead had multiple guns. |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 11:39:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This makes sense. It is hard to judge scale, but it is a bit larger than I was first imagining, so this makes it more clear. The slight slot cut in the part probably helps clear the right wall. I keep going back to this cutaway to visualize it, so I will just post it here. If this wasn't spring steel, I would expect that it would just flatten out after a short amount of rounds. What is killing me is that I spent almost $400 each for a couple echo triggers when a $2 part would do what it seems to do, without stupid laws. https://i.imgur.com/7XxVGJa.jpg 
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Posted: 8/21/2018 2:44:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you use both these AND bumpstocks, on the same gun? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Were these devices actually used in the Vegas shooting? As for why he would use a conversion device AND a bumpstock? One guess would be legal cover if he shot them (at a range, whatever) and someone asked him about his ROF or if he was somehow discovered. "Oh yeah; it's a bump stock. Here, let me show you how it works..." Or maybe he just used bump stocks. All I know for certain is the federal and local governments involved have gone out of their way to obfuscate and muddy the waters of this investigation. Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room. Why? I wish I knew. |
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Posted: 8/21/2018 2:52:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
fits under the read take down lug, bcg hit the long side of the link, the short end pushes the disco down=F/A 18 USC 922 (o) can go straight to hell. 
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Posted: 8/21/2018 3:50:07 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, if anyone posts photos or plans, or links to them, they will be deleted. CofC violation. This is a discussion of how these might work -- NOT a how-to guide. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any installed pics? Doesn't seem like the lower part would reach the disco but I could be wrong, hard to tell the size with no reference How is a picture of a firearm part a COC violation? |
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Posted: 8/21/2018 9:27:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:.
Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room. Why? I wish I knew. |
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Posted: 8/21/2018 2:29:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your post is slightly as ridiculous as the ATF calling a shoestring an illlegal machinegun. How is a picture of a firearm part a COC violation? https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/THE-RULES-FOR-THIS-FORUM/23-199936/ |
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Posted: 8/21/2018 5:34:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were not allowed to examine them at the crime scene. Once the scene was secured and tagged, it was done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:.
Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room. Why? I wish I knew.  Attached FileHere is the slide I referenced although that could easily discuss, as you said, the actual crime scene and not the weapons later on. |
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Posted: 8/23/2018 9:08:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please read the following: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/THE-RULES-FOR-THIS-FORUM/23-199936/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your post is slightly as ridiculous as the ATF calling a shoestring an illlegal machinegun. How is a picture of a firearm part a COC violation? https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/THE-RULES-FOR-THIS-FORUM/23-199936/ "No questions about or discussion of anything illegal." "What is allowed: --Posting pictures of anything NFA" If you believe that pictures would be of an illegal device/configuration, than this entire thread is a CoC violation. (which it seems not to be) If you believe that this device/configuration can be produced by an SOT, than pictures are allowed under CoC rules. |
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Posted: 8/23/2018 3:00:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CoC states: "No questions about or discussion of anything illegal." "What is allowed: --Posting pictures of anything NFA" If you believe that pictures would be of an illegal device/configuration, than this entire thread is a CoC violation. (which it seems not to be) If you believe that this device/configuration can be produced by an SOT, than pictures are allowed under CoC rules. When I was brought on as moderator of the then-single NFA forum on ar15.com in 2002, it was a time when the Department of Justice was investigating web sites that posted specific instructions on how to, among other things, convert semi autos to full-auto. I was brought on by this site's ownership with the specific mission of keeping ar15.com safe from any such government investigation or oversight. Thus, the NFA-specific rules. In the 16 years since then, I've had to delete a few dozen posts. I even had to ban one person. But the vast majority have understood those rules. As far as 07/02s go, I am a former manufacturer. My family still holds 07/02 licenses. While we welcome and encourage their input here, specific technical questions do not belong here, because we are a web site open to the public, good or bad. So we request that those conversations be taken to a web site which welcomes that info, or communicated by IM or email. There are bad people out there. We do not want their browser history to show an ar15.com page where they learned how to build an illegal, unregistered NFA item. Everyone is welcome here if they abide by these rules. But they will remain in force as long as ar15.com site ownership and staff remain committed to them. Thank you for your cooperation. |
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Posted: 8/23/2018 3:07:46 PM EDT
[#38]
What Tony says. When he started moderating, the M16 forum was a joke, 90% of posts were asking for illegal things. In fact, I myself did not even join before he took over it was so bad. He (and later David) cleaned it up into the usable forum we have today. 15+ years of service, he should get a gold watch or something.
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Posted: 8/23/2018 4:07:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What Tony says. When he started moderating, the M16 forum was a joke, 90% of posts were asking for illegal things. In fact, I myself did not even join before he took over it was so bad. He (and later David) cleaned it up into the usable forum we have today. 15+ years of service, he should get a gold watch or something. And lets be honest, if you have a FFL/SOT that allows you to legally manufacturer MGs you probably don't need to go rooting around on forums asking how to covert a semi-auto to full-auto, I think you already know that. And if you are new and need help there are people here that can point you in the right direction on where to obtain that information. This forum is just way to public and a center of attention to host that kind of information. |
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Posted: 8/23/2018 8:28:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Tony, thanks for the great job you are doing here.
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge, compiling an M-16 S\N data base, -xxx,. I recall exchanging a few early ones with you. 
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Posted: 8/23/2018 9:08:59 PM EDT
[#41]
And thank you guys, for your appreciation. I've spent an hour or two here almost every single day for the last 16 years trying to keep things in the NFA forums on an even keel. No gold watch yet (hint, hint!), but while sometimes it is a PITA, it is also a subject I love.
user55645, I actually did spend some time when this thread was first posted considering axing it. But I find the subject matter fascinating -- I had never heard of this invention -- and I wanted to learn more, so I discussed it via IM with the posters and tried to make sure it would not turn into a "hey, this is easy, here's how you do it!" thread. I'm still learning, and I hope you are, too. But as much as we all value the freedom of information, we must recognize that in the reality of today's world, the open sharing of some information can lead to legal action. ar15.com has a huge following with many diverse interests; most of the participants have little interest in this subject, and we should not and will not jeopardize the entire web site by provoking expensive legal challenges. I am not an attorney, nor do I represent ar15.com as such. I'm just using my experience to attempt to divine that fine line between what I hope is safe to post, and what I know may be dangerous to ar15.com to post. |
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Posted: 8/23/2018 10:27:36 PM EDT
[#42]
IIRC I recall seeing an advert for that on a different forum, several years ago.
"A simple piece of metal cut to the correct dimensions, simply bend following the enclosed properly sized template........." It may even have had part of the bends made to 80% construction, LOL! Probably ended up like SGN guy, we know all about him and his pre-81........ |
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Posted: 8/24/2018 7:43:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Whoa, let's take a step back here, guys. No one's dedication, hard work, or authority was being questioned. I simply posed a scenario based on the written rules, which were being waved overhead.
I, too, find the part interesting and would have liked to see a pic of installation. I understand there are individuals seeking information for the sole intent of nefarious activities. With as I didn't feel a second request was out of line, but it wasn't my call. Sorry to derail, carry on 
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Posted: 9/2/2018 12:11:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Curiosity got the better of me so I dropped the picture of the swift link into Fusion 360 and traced the outline.
At first I thought it must install in this orientation. 
Two things proved this to not be the case. An SP1 carrier would have been needed and the part that had been ground on the side for clearance would not have been in the right place. I then flipped it around and got this. 
The dimensions are way off but you get the idea. The M16 carrier hits the bend and pushes down on the disconnector. I can't imagine it would last long or be reliable. Others have already described the operation I just couldn't wrap my head around it till I drew it up. Hopefully this is not outside the bounds of discussion since it's just a drawing. |
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Posted: 9/2/2018 2:26:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Curiosity got the better of me so I dropped the picture of the swift link into Fusion 360 and traced the outline. At first I thought it must install in this orientation. http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Swift-Link-1-1.jpg Two things proved this to not be the case. An SP1 carrier would have been needed and the part that had been ground on the side for clearance would not have been in the right place. I then flipped it around and got this. http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Swift-Link-2.jpg The dimensions are way off but you get the idea. The M16 carrier hits the bend and pushes down on the disconnector. I can't imagine it would last long or be reliable. Others have already described the operation I just couldn't wrap my head around it till I drew it up. Hopefully this is not outside the bounds of discussion since it's just a drawing. I dont think this is outside the bounds, as it theoretical and awesome to boot |
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Posted: 9/2/2018 11:12:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Wow ya I was picturing the first way the entire time. I’d still be surprised to see that run reliably...someone needs to post sample it lol
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Posted: 9/2/2018 11:17:43 PM EDT
[#47]
I'd say reliability has a lot to do with the ability of the metal to retain its shape.
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Posted: 9/3/2018 2:37:39 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say reliability has a lot to do with the ability of the metal to retain its shape. |
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Posted: 9/3/2018 7:32:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say reliability has a lot to do with the ability of the metal to retain its shape. |
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Posted: 9/3/2018 8:05:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The LVPD in charge released a crap ton of witness statements and interviews (3,000+ pages) and at least one of those interviews covered the shooter's interest in DIAS and machine gun conversion devices in general. From other information they released, he had the cash to buy legal machine guns (belt feds at that). As for why he would use a conversion device AND a bumpstock? One guess would be legal cover if he shot them (at a range, whatever) and someone asked him about his ROF or if he was somehow discovered. "Oh yeah; it's a bump stock. Here, let me show you how it works..." Or maybe he just used bump stocks. All I know for certain is the federal and local governments involved have gone out of their way to obfuscate and muddy the waters of this investigation. Another slide in the pile where I found the Swift Link slide stated the ATF was NOT allowed to look at the internals of the weapons found in his room. Why? I wish I knew. |
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