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Posted: 9/9/2020 8:23:58 PM EDT
I want to get a nice tube gun. I was originally looking at MK760s and Sten guns but am now thinking about stepping it up a bit. That has lead me to the Swedish K and Sterling. From what I've seen, it seems like they are close in terms of price. Unfortuanetly I have not been able to shoot either. I am gravitating more towards the K but have heard a lot of good things about the Sterling. Which should I get? Are there any significant differences or gotchas that I should be aware of?
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Do you know how expensive it is to get magazines for either one? I have no idea, but that would enter my thinking. All things being equal, it would be a tough choice between those two.
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M45B for the win.
I have both, the Sterling is certainly top shelf, but the M45B has the SF history of MACV-SOG, and I am an 18 Bravo at heart. 18Z50 |
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Sterling for me no doubt. The Sterling mag is the best mag I've ever seen with its rollers. Very reliable and smooth shooter. I think it's the most reliable SMG I've ever played with. Not to mention it's the Star Wars blaster weapon of choice for the Storm Troopers!!! Haha
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The original m/45 has a removable mag support and can use the 50-round "coffin" mags from the m/37-39, or the 70-round drum, with the support removed.
http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/kpist/swede_45.htm |
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Swedish K would be my pick.
More natural mag changes, weapon shouldering, and movement with over 40 years of my muscle memory of vertical placement. Better stock in my opinion. Plus 1 on the MacVSog history connection. |
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Quoted: The original m/45 has a removable mag support and can use the 50-round "coffin" mags from the m/37-39, or the 70-round drum, with the support removed. http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/kpist/swede_45.htm View Quote I really like the capability of being able to use Suomi drums. |
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Thanks for the input guys. Please keep it coming.
What do you think the going rate is for a transferable non C&R Sterling and Swede K? Does 12k to 13k sound right? How about a Port Said? I read somewhere that they typically sell for less than a K. |
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Sterling lets you get closer to the ground. Not insignificant if someone is shooting at you.
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Quoted: Sterling lets you get closer to the ground. Not insignificant if someone is shooting at you. View Quote Horizontal mags introduce balance issues because the CG shifts during firing. The Sterling is a smooth gun, and the mags are very easy to load. I've fired a Sterling and a Port Said, but not close enough together to compare the two. I'd probably go for the m/45. Yes, a Port Said should be less expensive than a Swedish K. |
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I have both and if I was forced to get rid of one, it would be the Sterling. It's a very nice subgun, but the "K" is the smoothest-shooting SMG I have ever fired and the availability of 72-round drums makes it even better. With the Sterling you can use Sten and Lanchester mags, but having them hang out to the side is just awkward.
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Wow this is tough choice. I have both and enjoy each one for different reasons. One thing you will find there are very few for sale ever! I had to wait quite a while to find both of mine as they just don't come on the market often.
Back to the difference, is this a fun toy or are you going to compete in Subgun competitions with it? (You may end up shooting prone in matches more then you realize). I personally favor the Sterling based on having a little higher rate of fire on the Subgun course over a K which is slower. Pulling doubles is more natural on the Sterling, singles are the natural pull with the K. Our normal course / section of steel target here in PA is run best in that setup. Otherwise K is more versatile with the mag options of having both the coffin and the drums. Plus a lot of folks like the vertical mag well. The K is also more iconic when you think SEAL in Vietnam, I think Stoners and Swedish k. I'm not a Star War person so the Sterling connection doesn't mean much to me. Ultimately I would highly finding a way to shoot both (Get to PA let me know). If not, you will not be disappointed with either one. Let us know what you find and go with! |
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Quoted: Wow this is tough choice. I have both and enjoy each one for different reasons. One thing you will find there are very few for sale ever! I had to wait quite a while to find both of mine as they just don't come on the market often. Back to the difference, is this a fun toy or are you going to compete in Subgun competitions with it? (You may end up shooting prone in matches more then you realize). I personally favor the Sterling based on having a little higher rate of fire on the Subgun course over a K which is slower. Pulling doubles is more natural on the Sterling, singles are the natural pull with the K. Our normal course / section of steel target here in PA is run best in that setup. Otherwise K is more versatile with the mag options of having both the coffin and the drums. Plus a lot of folks like the vertical mag well. The K is also more iconic when you think SEAL in Vietnam, I think Stoners and Swedish k. I'm not a Star War person so the Sterling connection doesn't mean much to me. Ultimately I would highly finding a way to shoot both(Get to PA let me know) . If not, you will not be disappointed with either one. Let us know what you find and go with! View Quote Now I can't decide which one I want after reading through all these replies, either. I'm in NEPA. Got square miles of land to take my Jeep out and shoot stuff, literally right across the street from my house.(NO. I don't have any shame.) Maybe trade some trigger time on my belt fed semi. (Yes. I have heard all the "neutered" jokes.) |
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Quoted: Wow this is tough choice. I have both and enjoy each one for different reasons. One thing you will find there are very few for sale ever! I had to wait quite a while to find both of mine as they just don't come on the market often. Back to the difference, is this a fun toy or are you going to compete in Subgun competitions with it? (You may end up shooting prone in matches more then you realize). I personally favor the Sterling based on having a little higher rate of fire on the Subgun course over a K which is slower. Pulling doubles is more natural on the Sterling, singles are the natural pull with the K. Our normal course / section of steel target here in PA is run best in that setup. Otherwise K is more versatile with the mag options of having both the coffin and the drums. Plus a lot of folks like the vertical mag well. The K is also more iconic when you think SEAL in Vietnam, I think Stoners and Swedish k. I'm not a Star War person so the Sterling connection doesn't mean much to me. Ultimately I would highly finding a way to shoot both (Get to PA let me know). If not, you will not be disappointed with either one. Let us know what you find and go with! View Quote I figured asking this would get a lot of opinions. No doubt they are both excellent subguns. To answer your question, I don't be doing subgun comps with this. Although I would like to but the only competition is too far away to make it reasonable for me to do with any frequency. Thanks a lot for your input. I really appreciate it and will let you know if I get up to PA. Shooting both guns or even one would be the easiest way to figure this dilemma out! |
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Both are super smooth shooters. I prefer the Swedish K if choosing between the two. The ability to use stick mags, coffin mags, and drums is great. The drums are awesome.
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Both the Sterling and the Carl Gustav are top tier SMGs, so you won’t go wrong with either one of them. It will (should) come down to personal preference. This should involve firing both of them, hopefully in close enough proximity so that you can make an informed choice.
I personally prefer the Carl Gustav, due to its more conventional and familiar layout and handling characteristics, more magazine choices, including the quirky “coffin” and awesome drum, and hey, I just like the way they look better! The Sterling probably does have the best magazine of any SMG ever. The roller-follower is pure genius; I’m surprised it hasn’t been copied. |
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Quoted: Both the Sterling and the Carl Gustav are top tier SMGs, so you won’t go wrong with either one of them. It will (should) come down to personal preference. This should involve firing both of them, hopefully in close enough proximity so that you can make an informed choice. I personally prefer the Carl Gustav, due to its more conventional and familiar layout and handling characteristics, more magazine choices, including the quirky “coffin” and awesome drum, and hey, I just like the way they look better! The Sterling probably does have the best magazine of any SMG ever. The roller-follower is pure genius; I’m surprised it hasn’t been copied. View Quote Agreed on all points, especially re: Sterling mags. They are the best smg mag design to date. |
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Quoted: Now I can't decide which one I want after reading through all these replies, either. I'm in NEPA. Got square miles of land to take my Jeep out and shoot stuff, literally right across the street from my house.(NO. I don't have any shame.) Maybe trade some trigger time on my belt fed semi. (Yes. I have heard all the "neutered" jokes.) View Quote https://www.shootersgauntlet.com/2020-sept-mg-shoot |
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If parts availability is important to you, I seem to see a lot more sterling parts around than Carl Gustav.
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Quoted: Good option to try pretty much anything you could want to out. https://www.shootersgauntlet.com/2020-sept-mg-shoot View Quote Nice! I have seen things about their operation before. Never been there though. Rented a few things at Heritage Guild when I took a trip down to Easton. Sarco, Inc warehouse and store right next door was fortuitous surprise. Between there, my military, employment, and friends, I’ve had some good fun. I’m getting long winded and already feel like a thread stealer. So thanks for the lead. |
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I would vote the K.
Mainly because I like being able to add and remove a suppressor and that is easier to deal with on the K. Yeah, I know there is the integrally suppressed Sterling MK5 but I'm not too crazy about going with a dedicated suppressed SMG. OP, you should come out to the Port Malabar SMG match. There is one competitor that always brings his K and I'm sure he wouldn't mind you shooting it. There are also several guys that bring out their Sterlings. |
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I shot a fellows Port Said Swedish K at a shoot awhile back and loved how controllable it was.
I have a full-size registered receiver Uzi and the K wins in my opinion. I would love to come across one. |
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Guys sorry for the late response but just want to say thanks to everyone for their input. Granted Id still want to shoot both guns but think my preference is with the K over the sterling. And Amphibian, its good to know about there being someone at Malabar with a K. I do intend on going to that shoot sometime.
So as an update, I found a few mk760's locally. I know they are not Swedish K's but im going to check them out. I'd still like a K instead but if the mk760 runs and the price is right i might spring for one. I still think I will get a K eventually. |
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Quoted: Guys sorry for the late response but just want to say thanks to everyone for their input. Granted Id still want to shoot both guns but think my preference is with the K over the sterling. And Amphibian, its good to know about there being someone at Malabar with a K. I do intend on going to that shoot sometime. So as an update, I found a few mk760's locally. I know they are not Swedish K's but im going to check them out. I'd still like a K instead but if the mk760 runs and the price is right i might spring for one. I still think I will get a K eventually. View Quote The MK760 can be a fine SMG. There's a lot of discussion about them over on Uzi Talk. I personally love them - even with the drawbacks as compared to the real-deal M45b "Swedish K"! |
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Swedish K. More natural than some limey side load gun. Killed many a communist that design. Can you say that about the sterling?
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Quoted: The MK760 can be a fine SMG. There's a lot of discussion about them over on Uzi Talk. I personally love them - even with the drawbacks as compared to the real-deal M45b "Swedish K"! View Quote Thanks for the feedback. I have seen some of those discussions on UziTalk. I know the MK760's have a spotty reputation. I'm not sure if you have one, but if you do, do you have any suggestions as to what I should look for in evaluating a prospective gun for purchase? |
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No doubt both are great guns but I'm surprised. I figured it would be roughly 50/50 Sterling/K. Instead it's more like 20%/80%. Just browsing the various gun forms on the net, I definitely hear more talk about the Sterling which led me to believe it would be the preferred gun.
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Quoted: Thanks for the feedback. I have seen some of those discussions on UziTalk. I know the MK760's have a spotty reputation. I'm not sure if you have one, but if you do, do you have any suggestions as to what I should look for in evaluating a prospective gun for purchase? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Thanks for the feedback. I have seen some of those discussions on UziTalk. I know the MK760's have a spotty reputation. I'm not sure if you have one, but if you do, do you have any suggestions as to what I should look for in evaluating a prospective gun for purchase? No problem. The MK760 SMGs can be hit or miss - depending on how hard they were used and how well that particular one was put together. Look at the welds first off. Cracking can be fixed but it's not ideal. Similarly you want to look at the bolt and sear - severe wear on either can be very spendy to replace. Last time I looked the bolts are over a thousand dollars to replace. The sear is under $200 I think. Quoted: No doubt both are great guns but I'm surprised. I figured it would be roughly 50/50 Sterling/K. Instead it's more like 20%/80%. Just browsing the various gun forms on the net, I definitely hear more talk about the Sterling which led me to believe it would be the preferred gun. Realistically they're both great - and the MK760 can be as well. If they were all free and in front of me and I could have only one - with the knowledge that spare parts and mags were my own problem forever - I would honestly go for the Sterling just based on the fact that you can still get parts kits for relatively low prices. Mags for any of these aren't all that bad these days but obviously the Sterling mags are the best in terms of loading and feeding. Both mag designs are fantastic overall. If I wasn't worried about spare parts or extra mags or anything like that I'd simply pick the one I like best. |
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I'm left handed, the Sterling likes to spit powder back into my face. The K is my favorite sub gun of all time, and I have fired quite a few different ones.
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Quoted: No problem. The MK760 SMGs can be hit or miss - depending on how hard they were used and how well that particular one was put together. Look at the welds first off. Cracking can be fixed but it's not ideal. Similarly you want to look at the bolt and sear - severe wear on either can be very spendy to replace. Last time I looked the bolts are over a thousand dollars to replace. The sear is under $200 I think. View Quote Thank you very much, especially for the info above. I am definitely going to check those things out! |
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I have a S+W 76 that is supposed to be a clone of the K but to my eye the K is near the very top of the Wish list.
I knew a fellow that me offered a spare one in minty mint condition but I was actually looking for a C+R original. Rotsa Ruck on that one. Should have grabbed his. Or buy a real Smith and Wesson 76 factory built "modern" K for about the same price. |
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I have a K and a Sterling. Much prefer the K. The S&W and clones can be fun, but to me they arent close enough. The K has a better trigger, sights, stock and is usually more accurate than the average S&W.
The Sterling has a good thumb safety. Handle both, at a minimum. Fire both if possible. As mentioned earlier, with a K you MAY be at a disadvantage in subgun matches due to the rate of fire. Much is made about the Sterling mag. Well, OK, but they cost twice as much as the K mags and in my experience don't load or function any better. I have seen no difference in parts made in Sweden vs Port Said. Get a Wilson tube built with either kit. |
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Quoted: And drums and cool slings. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/130625/fullsizeoutput_7fe_jpeg-1603042.JPG View Quote Wow, very nice! |
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Quoted: I have a K and a Sterling. Much prefer the K. The S&W and clones can be fun, but to me they arent close enough. The K has a better trigger, sights, stock and is usually more accurate than the average S&W. The Sterling has a good thumb safety. Handle both, at a minimum. Fire both if possible. As mentioned earlier, with a K you MAY be at a disadvantage in subgun matches due to the rate of fire. Much is made about the Sterling mag. Well, OK, but they cost twice as much as the K mags and in my experience don't load or function any better. I have seen no difference in parts made in Sweden vs Port Said. Get a Wilson tube built with either kit. View Quote Thank you for the information. I was wondering about the Port Said vs Swedish kits. Do you have any thoughts as to what a K built with Port Said parts is worth vs one built with Swedish parts? I've heard online that the ones built with Port Said parts tend to sell for less. Also does the finish of the gun (park vs the green) make a difference in selling price? It looks like I will be buying an MK760 that is local to me. However, I am still going to keep an eye out for a Swedish K, for the right one to pop up. |
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Quoted: Thank you for the information. I was wondering about the Port Said vs Swedish kits. Do you have any thoughts as to what a K built with Port Said parts is worth vs one built with Swedish parts? I've heard online that the ones built with Port Said parts tend to sell for less. Also does the finish of the gun (park vs the green) make a difference in selling price? It looks like I will be buying an MK760 that is local to me. However, I am still going to keep an eye out for a Swedish K, for the right one to pop up. View Quote There are two general categories of value for the M45b - C&R and not C&R. The details don't change the price overly much. Finish and K vs Port Said are only at most a couple thousand bucks or so different in price these days. Before you buy that MK760 - go read up on Uzi Talk. Ask questions - know what you're buying. Unless $8-10 thousand is pocket change for you it's worth putting in a couple of hours of researching. One of the prime pieces of advice found there - other than checking the sear and sear notch condition - are to look at the extractor. If the MK760 you're looking at has had any real amount of rounds through it then most likely the extractor is either worn past reliability or about to get to that point. Same deal with the spring and the pin that holds it. The trigger bar (and rivet) are usually the same. The design on that was strange and I'll never understand it. I would also suggest spending the $50 or so for Frank Iannamico's book on the 76/760. The images and details in that book are well worth the cost for anyone who has an interest in these firearms and is looking to buy one. |
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Quoted: Thank you for the information. I was wondering about the Port Said vs Swedish kits. Do you have any thoughts as to what a K built with Port Said parts is worth vs one built with Swedish parts? I've heard online that the ones built with Port Said parts tend to sell for less. Also does the finish of the gun (park vs the green) make a difference in selling price? It looks like I will be buying an MK760 that is local to me. However, I am still going to keep an eye out for a Swedish K, for the right one to pop up. View Quote So few change hands that it is hard to say for sure, but I see little to no difference between the kits. The motivation of the seller and the time of year have more influence on the price. Same goes for the finish. Personal taste and easy to change. A bigger difference is if you can see the welds on the receiver. Some guns show obvious seams on each side where the lower section was attached to the upper tube while others look like one piece of sheet metal formed into a receiver. But even then, minor practical difference and if you want a K, how long are you willing to wait? Welded tube below: Attached File No weld: Attached File |
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Quoted: Before you buy that MK760 - go read up on Uzi Talk. Ask questions - know what you're buying. Unless $8-10 thousand is pocket change for you it's worth putting in a couple of hours of researching. One of the prime pieces of advice found there - other than checking the sear and sear notch condition - are to look at the extractor. If the MK760 you're looking at has had any real amount of rounds through it then most likely the extractor is either worn past reliability or about to get to that point. Same deal with the spring and the pin that holds it. The trigger bar (and rivet) are usually the same. The design on that was strange and I'll never understand it. I would also suggest spending the $50 or so for Frank Iannamico's book on the 76/760. The images and details in that book are well worth the cost for anyone who has an interest in these firearms and is looking to buy one. View Quote This is excellent advice. The MK760 is a clone of the Smith and Wesson M76, but many of the MK760 have quality or functional issues. The Smith and Wesson M76 was produced by a major firearms manufacturer, and intended for military/law enforcement sales. The MK760 was made by a couple of small machine shops at different times, and they were produced for the civilian/recreational machine gun shooter. Not all of them are “problem-children”, and by now some of the ones which previously had issues have likely been fixed. Neither the Smith and Wesson M76, nor the MK Arms MK760 are in the same league as the Carl Gustav M45, or the Sterling L2A3 for that matter either. |
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Quoted: So few change hands that it is hard to say for sure, but I see little to no difference between the kits. The motivation of the seller and the time of year have more influence on the price. Same goes for the finish. Personal taste and easy to change. A bigger difference is if you can see the welds on the receiver. Some guns show obvious seams on each side where the lower section was attached to the upper tube while others look like one piece of sheet metal formed into a receiver. But even then, minor practical difference and if you want a K, how long are you willing to wait? Welded tube below: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/130625/fullsizeoutput_58b_jpeg-1604295.JPG No weld: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/130625/fullsizeoutput_2cb_jpeg-1604302.JPG View Quote Thanks for the pics of the receivers and the info. That's very helpful! |
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Quoted: There are two general categories of value for the M45b - C&R and not C&R. The details don't change the price overly much. Finish and K vs Port Said are only at most a couple thousand bucks or so different in price these days. Before you buy that MK760 - go read up on Uzi Talk. Ask questions - know what you're buying. Unless $8-10 thousand is pocket change for you it's worth putting in a couple of hours of researching. One of the prime pieces of advice found there - other than checking the sear and sear notch condition - are to look at the extractor. If the MK760 you're looking at has had any real amount of rounds through it then most likely the extractor is either worn past reliability or about to get to that point. Same deal with the spring and the pin that holds it. The trigger bar (and rivet) are usually the same. The design on that was strange and I'll never understand it. I would also suggest spending the $50 or so for Frank Iannamico's book on the 76/760. The images and details in that book are well worth the cost for anyone who has an interest in these firearms and is looking to buy one. View Quote Thanks for the info. Very good info and well thought out. I do have the book. It is great! |
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Quoted: This is excellent advice. The MK760 is a clone of the Smith and Wesson M76, but many of the MK760 have quality or functional issues. The Smith and Wesson M76 was produced by a major firearms manufacturer, and intended for military/law enforcement sales. The MK760 was made by a couple of small machine shops at different times, and they were produced for the civilian/recreational machine gun shooter. Not all of them are “problem-children”, and by now some of the ones which previously had issues have likely been fixed. Neither the Smith and Wesson M76, nor the MK Arms MK760 are in the same league as the Carl Gustav M45, or the Sterling L2A3 for that matter either. View Quote Good info. Thanks for your input. I've done some research on the mk760's and know they can be real hit or miss. Hopefully the gun I am looking at runs and is solid. I need to verify that. |
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Never a 18B but a 18C for 12yrs. Everyone thinks I'm a Bravo however.
Attached File Sterlings Attached File CD Sterling SMG.AVI Port Said Attached File CD Port Said SMG.AVI Between the those two, I'll take the Sterling. Better mags and select fire. Item of interest is that the Iraq's love SMGs. Very few SMGs in Afghanistan. CD |
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They are both great guns OP, but I have to go with the "K." I love mine.
I don't know if the practice ammo is available anymore. The sub-caliber bbl is a hoot. I don't know about the Sterling, but the "K" has a lot of neat accessories. |
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Guys just want to followup on this. This is kind of a curveball here but I wound up with a mk760. It was local and a good deal. I still think I will jump on a Swedish k down the road. Anyways I want to thank everyone for their input. It will be put to good use at some point in the future.
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Congratulations. I suspect that will fuel your desire for a Swedish K down the road.
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Guys a very nice person at the Hernando machine gun shoot today let me shoot his a Swedish K. I was thoroughly impressed and really liked the gun. It is definitely on list of guns I will own one day. I'm still waiting on the transfer of the mk760. Hopefully I will get it in the next month or two. I know it won't measure up to the K but hopefully it isn't a huge letdown,
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Quoted: Guys a very nice person at the Hernando machine gun shoot today let me shoot his a Swedish K. I was thoroughly impressed and really liked the gun. It is definitely on list of guns I will own one day. I'm still waiting on the transfer of the mk760. Hopefully I will get it in the next month or two. I know it won't measure up to the K but hopefully it isn't a huge letdown, View Quote I am happy you got to shoot one, Did you try a Sterling? |
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