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Page Armory » M-16
Posted: 10/12/2017 4:31:29 PM EDT
I have a PAWS/Oly RR inbound, and am thinking of a sustained-fire upper for it.

I've read as many threads on this subject as I could on this forum, and as I see it, here are my impressions (please correct me if I have wrong information, or have missed other options):

1.  FightLite Industries MCR belt-fed upper:  Pros:  Beltfed, quick-change barrels.  Cons: Price (yes, I know MG accessories are expensive, but when it's 80% of the cost of a Sten...), finicky about links (?), oprod springs, and how durable are the barrels?

2.  Colt LMG upper (RO750) in closed-bolt mode:  Pros:  Very heavy barrel, retro-badass look, less expensive than the MCR.  Cons:  No ability to change barrels, and reliability of drum mags (Beta, Magpul, X-Products, etc)?  Hard-to-find spare parts and hydraulic buffer/green spring (can a rifle buffer be used instead?)  Old-style M16A2 fixed carry handle.

3.  Colt IAR prototype uppers, such as those at AIM Surplus or US Armament:  Pros:  Heavy barrel, heat sink, monolithic upper.  Cons: No barrel changes, drum mag reliability.

4.  Roll my own, from various combinations of upper receivers, heavy barrels, etc.

Expected use - mainly a range toy, possibly for the zombie apocalypse (although I would probably switch to a SOCOM 14.5" upper from Daniel Defense for that.)

Am I missing anything?
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 4:46:32 PM EDT
[#1]
I would get a Shrike upper or roll my own.  I would feel bad beating up one of the Colt IAR or LMG uppers.

If you roll your own you can afford a couple armatac 150rd drums, surefire 60's and replacement barrels when you burn the first couple out.

You can also swap in an aluminum or titanium carrier if you want to run 1400rpm or so.
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 4:46:45 PM EDT
[#2]
My suggestion is just to buy a bunch of cheap heavy barreled uppers and throw them away when you burn them out.
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 5:12:43 PM EDT
[#3]
If it were me and I wanted some sort of non-Ares heavy volume upper setup I would probably start with a heavy barrel upper that is chrome lined from a reputable vendor (Colt, FN, DD, etc.) with a nice free float highly vented/skeletonized rail.

If you were so inclined you could also beef up the gas tube similar to what the Colt LMG uses.  This will be a make your own type arrangement.

The other option would be to go water cooled for the ultimate high rate of fire setup.

Link Posted: 10/12/2017 5:23:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 5:25:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 8:57:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Many thanks for all the excellent and helpful info!

They all sound good to me - multiple cheap uppers, a quality HBAR upper with a rail, but I must admit I am mooning after a Colt LMG upper (I wish I could find the later-version Colt LSW flattop upper, but apparently those are extremely rare.)

No votes for the IAR?

I will have to meditate on all this

In the meantime, recommendations for drum mags?  I'm thinking that using 30-rd mags will at least give the barrel a quick rest during mag changes, but ya gotta have a drum mag to make people grin widely...
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 9:10:48 PM EDT
[#7]
The fightlite barrels last a long time... the amount of ammo or abuse to render them not servicable for most applications is many many times the cost of a new barrel.


There was a sale on the fightlite uppers not to long ago.. every few months there is a sale. If you have a RR waiting for a sale and buying a $3k-3500 is the way to go.

Anything used for sustained fire needs quick change barrels.
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 9:13:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My suggestion is just to buy a bunch of cheap heavy barreled uppers and throw them away when you burn them out.
View Quote
When i first got my m16 this is what i did, you wind up with a bunch of wall hangers or some unsatisfied GB buyers.
Link Posted: 10/12/2017 9:50:03 PM EDT
[#9]
I would go with the MCR upper if you have the cash. The quick change heavy barrel, belt and mag fed options, bipod, etc...all add up for a great LMG

The biggest con is the price, at $4k you are indeed getting close to the price of entry level MGs. I was actually saving for a MCR recently but ended up buying an M11 instead. As much as I wanted a belt fed M16 (still do) I just felt my money was better spend on a transferable MG that would increase in value.

I opted to buy a cheap PSA heavy barrel key mod upper. With a bipod and beta mag I get LMG fun at a fraction of the price. Con is I no quick change barrel but the upper is so cheap I could buy 10 for the price of the a MCR
Link Posted: 10/13/2017 11:51:47 AM EDT
[#10]
MGnoob, thanks for the info on the occasional MCR sales.

Tony_k, what would be a decent price these days for a Colt LMG upper (without the open bolt FCG, with or without the hydraulic buffer and green spring)?  Any sources other than GunBroker?

Spartikis, is this PSA upper the one you bought?
Link Posted: 10/13/2017 12:13:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
MGnoob, thanks for the info on the occasional MCR sales.

Tony_k, what would be a decent price these days for a Colt LMG upper (without the open bolt FCG, with or without the hydraulic buffer and green spring)?  Any sources other than GunBroker?

Spartikis, is this PSA upper the one you bought?
View Quote
Looked just like this, only it was a keymod not m-lok, don't see it listed ont heir site. Paid $209 with free shipping. I had an extra BCG, charging handle, and BUIS laying around and I borrow the quick detach atlas bipod off my DMR.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-5-56-nitride-9-m-lok-freedom-upper-without-bcg-or-ch-516446319.html

Got a KCI drum mag here, used a coupon code to bring the price down to $80.
https://www.classicfirearms.com/ar15-m16-100rd-dual-drum-mag#product_tabs_reviews

So for $289 I was able to put together a cheap-o LMG style upper that chews through ammo and will put a smile on everyones face. Sure its not as bada$$ as a MCR, no drum will ever compare to the awesomeness of a true belt fed MG, but you cant beat the price. Plus it still looks pretty cool with a drum mag and its super loud with the 10.5" barrel, I might put a brake on it to make it even louder, just to get the shock and awe effect.
Link Posted: 10/13/2017 12:52:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 10/13/2017 1:51:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Anything used for sustained fire needs quick change barrels.
View Quote
this

swapping uppers witth drum mags gets old quick
Link Posted: 10/13/2017 2:56:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Spartakis and tony_k, thanks for the additional information.

TaylorWSO, agreed, that would be ideal, I may have to make some $$$ adjustments for the MCR to happen (as long as the RR fits).
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 11:29:35 AM EDT
[#15]
I would go MCR or build hour own IAR upper. MCR has both belt and mag feed and quick change barrels. IAR has more parts commonality with other AR15s and Magpul D60s are reliable from what I've seen.

This is my DIY IAR upper. PSA FN CHF "heavy" barrel (I would prefer a 1" diameter barrel but couldn't find one), V7 Inconel gas tube. There will be a forward mounted bipod eventually.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 12:30:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Dennis Todd or SAW might have one, but otherwise the auctions sites are it.

Colt only brought in one batch of these from the Diemaco facility in Canada, at least 20 years ago, for a potential military contract. When it did not happen, they added semi BCGs and sold them though their usual distributors for, IIRC, $799. Today, of course, they are unimportable (unless you want a sliced-and-diced barrel).

The going rate seems to be around $2.5k. There are two on GB right now around that price.

Also, I just checked your original post and see you have an Oly/PAWS. FWIW, I bought one of those from a local friend shortly before I got my ARES Shrike, with the idea of making it the primary host for my incoming beltfed upper. Even though the Oly/PAWS ran perfectly with every other upper I own (including the LMG), it simply would not fit the Shrike. It was a stacked tolerances issue. The Oly/PAWS had already been professionally brought into spec once, and I did not want to redo it; and I really did not want to start filing on a $4k upper.

After trying the Shrike on other hosts, I decided I could live without it, and separately sold both the Shrike and the Oly/PAWS (the RR for $4k more than I had paid it less than a year earlier).

Anyway, I do not know if the manufacturer has addressed that issue, so if you do decide to go for an MCR, see if you can find one to test-fit to your RR before you plunk down the cash.

Your Mileage May Vary.
View Quote
That sucks having a lower so far out of spec even after it had been worked on..
I did file down the area between the front pin on my lower (mgi, not RR)
Im curious what was the actual issue? If it was years ago i would wonder if the upper was crap, but idk if you tried multiple units.
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 12:38:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Colt FBI 11.5 Heavy Barrel
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 12:59:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 10:48:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for the additional info!

When the PAWS/Oly gets to my FFL/SOT, I'll have to take several uppers to his shop and hope they fit properly...
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 1:36:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Thanks for the info. It sounds to me while youre lower may have been off. Its the same experience ive had with various lowers... you could easily hack a pin to work or work the lug on the upper, while not ideal it sounds better to me than having at it with a RR....since its not a colt or a true collectable.. id hack it to fit... it probable isn't much but you would have to be mindfully if you were to pivot and upper on the lower, which since your not putting in a dias every time isnt a big deal.

I would adive the op the problem may still exist.. fightlites can be a snug fit to a lower.. but not to the extent that you shouldn't buy one.

There something to be said about a cheap upper with fast support... my whole hk thing is Turning into a expensive frustrating nightmare. Could have just bought 10 shrikes
Link Posted: 1/19/2018 9:01:59 AM EDT
[#21]
This is my upper:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/38/42/a1/3842a1a15644bab51f068a447e871dfa.jpg

20" Bushmaster chrome lined heavy fluted barrel.  Since that picture it has been updated to use the Valkyrie Armaments belt feed unit.  this is a video of my wife shooting 500 rd burst through it:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="RFcxuOzsoXA" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

or search by "500 rd burst"

The upper has over 8,500 rds through it and shows no throat erosion that I can see.

Scott
Link Posted: 1/23/2018 12:17:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Ive hit the point now where quantity somtimes is better than quality.. if i didnt live where i do. Id grab one or two dozen $400 ar15s.
With rr its even easier than with a sear to just swap a whole upper....but with a sear i have little to no fear of a Kaboom.

I know you want a sustained fire upper... which is great and you should have (MCR)..but from a cost standpoint you could build or buy throwaways and rather than a few high end uppers still have 10+ perfectly functional 15s.

Its just something to think about.. 10 ar15 will always be worth more than a used MCR or highend upper.
Link Posted: 1/23/2018 1:53:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Thanks for the additional suggestions!

The Oly/PAWS RR is at my local SOT waiting for the Form 4 to be approved.

I brought the Colt LMG upper and my BCM 11.5" upper (from my SBR) to the dealer - both uppers fit properly, and a dry-fire function check showed everything worked in Safe, Semi and Auto.

The 20" upper that came with the gun fit properly, of course.

Here's a link to a photo of the gun with the LMG upper (on imgur.com):

https://i.imgur.com/xgDC13f.jpg
Link Posted: 1/23/2018 9:48:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the additional suggestions!

The Oly/PAWS RR is at my local SOT waiting for the Form 4 to be approved.

I brought the Colt LMG upper and my BCM 11.5" upper (from my SBR) to the dealer - both uppers fit properly, and a dry-fire function check showed everything worked in Safe, Semi and Auto.

The 20" upper that came with the gun fit properly, of course.

Here's a link to a photo of the gun with the LMG upper (on imgur.com):

https://i.imgur.com/xgDC13f.jpg
View Quote
Neato, now you just need a 100 rd beta mag
Page Armory » M-16
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