I was drawn for Elk this year, only issue is my buddy choose a hunt number he though was archery.. well turns out he put us in for a muzzle loader hunt.  I’m a seasoned rifle and archery hunter but a complete black powder noob.

From what I can tell Az is pretty good about what can be used, can’t find any restrictions.  What would be a good bp rifle for easy loading, give me solid range/accuracy/energy for elk?

I only get an elk tag every 5-6 years so I don’t mind spending for buy once cry once gun.  $1000-2000 budget, ideally including glass.




**Update**

very happy with the paramount pro in .40, it’s a great shooting gun.  The Burris eliminator takes the guess work out of it with decent glass.  Only compliant is its a heavy set up.
Attached File

T/C Prohunter Encore is my current favorite

How far are you anticipating having to hike?  If you think you’ll have to cover a lot of ground I’d lean towards a CVA Accura MR.  Get the Blackhorn 209 breech plug and put a good scope on it.

If weight / length isn’t a big deal for you I’d probably move up to something like a Knight Mountaineer or CVA Paramount.  I’m a big fan of faster twist (1:18-1:24) .45 muzzleloaders.  With the faster twist you can usually develop accurate loads with a variety of projectiles. My 1:20 Knight Mountaineer shoots good with everything from 200gn .40 XTPs in sabots to 525gn .451 conicals but it’s a heavy pig and no fun to carry.

Typically we take the side by side out on some remote trails then hike in a mile or so to glass for critters.   My current hunting gun is a 22” 300 win mag with a 5” can on the end and weighs about 10lbs so I’m accustomed to a long heavyish gun.

Anyone have an opinion on the Remington UML?  Seem to be gone everywhere now but a buddy suggested it.  


Also is .45 the way to go vs .50?

My brother has an older Rem ML built off the 700 bolt action that has since been updated to use 209 primers.

I was never a fan.

It's a pain in the ass to load the primer with a scope mounted.

It's a pain in the ass to clean.

It's on the heavy side for what it is.

I'm not sure if the newer ones have fixed any of these issues.

I personally prefer the .50 as I can find components in stock everywhere locally, I've never seen any other caliber supported by any local shops.

It's also the caliber everyone else in the family/friends group that I hunt with use so if something comes up missing/ruined/etc. it's likely not critical to a successful hunt.

The Remington UML is a different rifle than the 700ML they sold years ago. The UML is nice but it seems like most guys are upgrading them heavily or using it as a platform for smokeless builds.  

As far as .45 vs .50 I have several muzzleloaders in each caliber and use them in different situations.  I generally hunt with my 50cal CVA cause I don’t care if it gets scratched or wet. That said if CVA offered a Accura MR in 45 with a fast twist rate that would instantly become my go to rig. Bolt actions have a finer feel to them but generally it’s just adding length and weight with no real benefit over a break action.

Also keep in mind 50 caliber bullets, sabots, ect can be easier to source while out on a trip. My 45 gear usually has to be ordered online cause no local stores stock them. Worth considering.

Just saw that CVA has an Accura MR-X coming out soon available in 50 (1:28), 45 (1:22) and 40 (1:20). Supposedly it’s built to handle heavy loads of Blackhorn 209 and the 40 is supposed to be good for 2700fps. The 45 should make a awesome hunting rig but I’m tempted to grab a 40 just for the novelty and to try something new (we can hunt deer here in Missouri with .40, lots of states won’t allow it)

I have nothing to add- except that i am jealous.

BTW, last year i picked up a cheapy Traditions buckhunter.  It uses 209 primers and it's dead nuts on straight out of the box.  I haven't put glass on it because the fiber-optic sites work great.
I know, not what you're looking for, but had to chime in.

Also, good luck!

Double.
Now, doubley jealous.

How can it be a black powder hunting stick, if it doesn't use black powder?

If we’re being honest very few people shoot black powder out of muzzleloaders. I had to drive 1.5 hours to find a place that stocks Goex cause the nearest place that stocks Swiss is 3 hours away.

We have an October "Muzzleloader" season for doe only... any ML is allowed, as are optics, so that season sees about 99% inlines with substitutes being used.
ML's can also be used (with optics or without) during our regular Firearms season after Thanksgiving as well, but 99% will pick up a centerfire for that season.
Then we have a Flintlock season starting right after Christmas thru late January, no optics, orange optional, has to be flintlock ignition, 45 cal and up, single projectile.
Getting Goex or Swiss is fairly easy in these parts... it's actually been harder for me to find the .495 hornady balls my favorite flinter prefers than it's been to find powder...and even that's not been very difficult.

To the OP's question though, you'd be hard pressed to find a better gun for the dollar than CVA's current offerings. Their Optima and Accura lines have the absolute best out of the box trigger I've ever felt on a ML.
I've taken deer DRT past 250 yards with my Optima 2 on several occasions, with an average shot being ~130 yards. (300gr .430 XTP, green crush rib sabot over 100gr 777).

I have 11 modern BP currently. without a doubt-2 of them leave the rest behind in quality and accuracy.

1- Knight Disc Extreme ( my Go To Rifle- so good I have 2)
2- T/C Encore Prohunter ( could move into my Go To Rifle slot)

all the rest are completely serviceable, huntable rifles but these 2 leave the rest behind.

the Federal BOR-LOK Trophy is the most accurate, consistant easy to load bullet I have shot. I've been hunting with it for 3 years how with outstanding results. we routinely shoot 3 inch Gongs at 150 and I want to say 4 inch Gongs at 200.

in the Knight- the amazing load is from a 45 cal XTR bullet in a black sabot- but it is brutal to load after 2-3 shots.
I'm tinkering with Blackhorn Powder currently and may switch back to this load in the Knight Disc Extremes in the future for hunting under 150 yards. the results with this bullet combo in the past under 150 yards has been damn near perfection.

with 777 I only shoot 100 gr W/V loose powder with a specific ML 209.
a standard 209 will sometimes give you a slight hesitation of ignition because its more powerful and creates a pressure inside the breach before ignition.

BOR-LOK Trophy bullet

Ignorance by the op mostly.  Have also in my youth called mags clips.

The recommendations for the CVAs are spot on IMO. We have Knight, TC, custom rifles and CVAs (Wolf, Optima, and Accura) in the family.  I don't think there is a better value for the money spent than the Optima. That said, I have the nitrided Accura and love it for its corrosion resistance. With good glass and a mount that puts you right within your stated budget.

FWIW mine has never failed to produce a one shot kill on any deer. Last deer of the ML season last year was ranged at (IIRC) 183 yards; long ranges are no problem for these rifles. We use XTPs, harvester black sabots and 777 but if I were starting from scratch I'd go with Blackhorn and the appropriate breech plug. My rifle likes 120gr 777, never found a reason to go heavier.

I vote CVA Powerbelts arolite and Blackhorn 209

Thanks for the Info guys.  I ended up getting a CVA Paramount Pro in .40,  the energy and ballistics seemed hard to beat, looks like quite a thumper out to 300 yards and range is king out west.

Good choice.

If PA ever gets out of the dark ages and allows us to use muzzleloaders under 45cal for big game, that Paramount is on my list.

Check the game laws for Black powder elk. Some places only allow .50 or larger. Newer inline muzzle loader don't have a "Learning Curve" like older rifles. pellets and sabots make them easier to use. Finding 209 primer may be difficult.

Well I’m very happy with the paramount in .40, quite a thumper at range and very accurate.  Shot steel at 400 and 500 yards, was hitting the plate hard even at longer ranges.

These are two 2 shot groups (powder is unobtainium) at 200 yards.  106grains blackhorn and 106.6 grains.

Attached File

Darn good shooting!