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Posted: 11/17/2019 5:47:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2019 5:50:38 PM EDT by Joguwa86]
I figured I’d share my “final” AUG configuration.



I tried the LPVO route, red dot+irons, fixed low-power scope, and red dot only.

Some notes:

-I realized that the overwhelming majority of my shots will be under 200 yards, and it shined the most on short-range (sub-100yard) courses of fire.

-My best accuracy with quality ammo was about 2 MOA. I love this gun, but it is not a target rifle.

-The AUG is heavy, and I wanted to avoid making it heavier with a bulky scope. In light of this and the so-so accuracy, LPVO’s were ditched quickly.

-The AUG is not made for iron sights. I tried fixed sights to maximize the very short sight radius, and folding sights to minimize bulk. They work, but rail space runs out fast.

-The factory charging handle is fine for the original scoped AUG, but you’ll bloody your knuckles quickly with the railed A3. Optics and accessories really interfere with basic operation of the gun, too. The Switchback handle completely fixes all of these issues. It should be adopted by Steyr, IMO. I also added rail covers just in case my hand slips. That rail is a cheese grater!

-Once I decided to ditch the irons, I was concerned about running only a red dot. Modern red dots are extremely reliable, but I experienced some issues with wash-out on a particular outing in the desert. I decided to try prism scopes.

-ACOGs are very lightweight and nearly ideal for this gun. I tried 1.5x, 3x, and 2x, and all worked great. Downsides were cost, daytime reticle blooming, and the tritium illumination. I’ve been doing this long enough to have some of my ACOG’s tritium becomes too dim for practical use. I prefer the option to use batteries.

-Enter the PA Cyclops. 1x is all the zoom I need with this gun, low cost, no battery required, optional illumination if needed, great reticle (for me), and light-ish weight. And durable as hell.

-I’m still trying to finalize a sling situation. I’ve used the factory swivels the most, but that configuration interferes with the controls. I’m likely going to move to a rail mounted QD swivel for the front, and continue using the factory rear swivel pin. We’ll see.
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 5:54:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2019 5:58:10 PM EDT by ryandushku]
False. Aug + TA50

Also I rack my Aug palm up, the way god intended. Never bloodied a knuckle

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 5:54:11 PM EDT
Not bad. I'd leave irons on just for backup
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 6:09:45 PM EDT
My CQC has a Holosun RDS w/ ACSS reticle. It’s mostly for closer or less precise shooting, but I can pop a magnifier on and have a perfectly usable 3X for if I want to shoot longer or more precise. To me a bullpup is a rifle meant to be flexible in range, and I wanted my optics to match that philosophy.
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 6:11:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ryandushku:
False. Aug + TA50

Also I rack my Aug palm up, the way god intended. Never bloodied a knuckle
View Quote
I’ve got big hands, so palm-up skins my ring finger if I don’t grab the handle at the right angle.

TA50 is fantastic, just not for me.
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 6:38:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2019 8:13:21 PM EDT by Dustyattic]
Anyone looking for a prismatic 1X might also look for a 1st Gen Vortex Spitfire.  I used one on an AUG and was happy with it.  Unfortunately, I think they may be discontinued, but still come up for sale now and then.
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 6:53:13 PM EDT
I'm enjoying my AUG with a LPVO. The 1-4x w/ built-in red dot suits the capabilities of the rifle for me.

Link Posted: 11/17/2019 8:57:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aphex:
I'm enjoying my AUG with a LPVO. The 1-4x w/ built-in red dot suits the capabilities of the rifle for me.

https://i.imgur.com/wqPc6KG.jpg
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Slick setup.
Link Posted: 11/18/2019 11:42:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By JoshNC:

Slick setup.
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Thanks. I appreciate it.

I got to give props to Manticore for making the Talon mount in the first place.
Link Posted: 11/18/2019 10:57:08 PM EDT
I wish the Manticore used the spring assembly from the factory charging handle to stay put. Mine's starting to develop even more vertical play.
Link Posted: 11/19/2019 8:19:48 PM EDT
You spend a lot on an AUG and go cheap on optics    I hope the AUG isn't your primary weapon.
Link Posted: 11/20/2019 12:39:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aubie1:
You spend a lot on an AUG and go cheap on optics    I hope the AUG isn't your primary weapon.
View Quote
No need to be snooty; the Cyclops is a legitimately decent optic, and fits a niche that not many other options do (small, light, prismatic 1x, illuminated).  Be happy it's inexpensive.
Link Posted: 11/20/2019 9:41:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Apec:
I wish the Manticore used the spring assembly from the factory charging handle to stay put. Mine's starting to develop even more vertical play.
View Quote
Contact Manticore Arms
Link Posted: 11/20/2019 10:16:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2019 2:09:55 PM EDT
The A3s are a damn fine looking AUG
Link Posted: 11/20/2019 10:47:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aubie1:
You spend a lot on an AUG and go cheap on optics    I hope the AUG isn't your primary weapon.
View Quote
Do you have any first hand experience with the Cyclops?

It may be inexpensive, but it is far from cheap.
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 12:39:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2019 12:41:23 AM EDT by doty_soty]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aubie1:
You spend a lot on an AUG and go cheap on optics    I hope the AUG isn't your primary weapon.
View Quote
No personal experience with the Cyclops here, but I usually hear good things about it. It makes a lot of sense for people with astigmatism but who still want a 1X. Trijicon are the premium prism optic manufacturer, but the closest they come are 1.5X. I like my TA44’s, but that added magnification really throws me off up close.

Also it’s 2019, do many people that have a choice really choose an AUG over an AR as a primary weapon? I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 1:59:52 AM EDT
I like the 3x factory optic.  I could see adding a little micro dot on top maybe.  I need a suppressor, but I really hate having to mess around with muzzle devices.
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 11:11:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By doty_soty:

Also it’s 2019, do many people that have a choice really choose an AUG over an AR as a primary weapon? I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
View Quote


What kind of work are you referring to and why is an AUG not up for consideration?
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 12:43:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doty_soty:

No personal experience with the Cyclops here, but I usually hear good things about it. It makes a lot of sense for people with astigmatism but who still want a 1X. Trijicon are the premium prism optic manufacturer, but the closest they come are 1.5X. I like my TA44’s, but that added magnification really throws me off up close.

Also it’s 2019, do many people that have a choice really choose an AUG over an AR as a primary weapon? I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
View Quote
I don’t even own a AR anymore , AUG is my primary weapon
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 3:07:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2019 3:09:38 PM EDT by doty_soty]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aphex:
https://i.imgur.com/p9l8erW.jpg

What kind of work are you referring to and why is an AUG not up for consideration?
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Originally Posted By Aphex:
Originally Posted By doty_soty:

Also it’s 2019, do many people that have a choice really choose an AUG over an AR as a primary weapon? I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
https://i.imgur.com/p9l8erW.jpg

What kind of work are you referring to and why is an AUG not up for consideration?
Anything where I’d be using a rifle for real (which for me, these days, is almost surely some imagined hypothetical scenario anyway). I wouldn’t hesitate to use my AUG, they’re great rifles, but it’s personally not my first choice. But that’s ok, neither would anything else except for my SR-15.

ETA not to derail from the thread. I don’t consider the Cyclops an ideal optic except for maybe if a user wants 1X and has astigmatism, but I’m sure it works great and I certainly wouldn’t fault someone for liking it.
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 6:59:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doty_soty:
Anything where I’d be using a rifle for real (which for me, these days, is almost surely some imagined hypothetical scenario anyway). I wouldn’t hesitate to use my AUG, they’re great rifles, but it’s personally not my first choice. But that’s ok, neither would anything else except for my SR-15.

ETA not to derail from the thread. I don’t consider the Cyclops an ideal optic except for maybe if a user wants 1X and has astigmatism, but I’m sure it works great and I certainly wouldn’t fault someone for liking it.
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Originally Posted By doty_soty:
Originally Posted By Aphex:
Originally Posted By doty_soty:

Also it’s 2019, do many people that have a choice really choose an AUG over an AR as a primary weapon? I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
https://i.imgur.com/p9l8erW.jpg

What kind of work are you referring to and why is an AUG not up for consideration?
Anything where I’d be using a rifle for real (which for me, these days, is almost surely some imagined hypothetical scenario anyway). I wouldn’t hesitate to use my AUG, they’re great rifles, but it’s personally not my first choice. But that’s ok, neither would anything else except for my SR-15.

ETA not to derail from the thread. I don’t consider the Cyclops an ideal optic except for maybe if a user wants 1X and has astigmatism, but I’m sure it works great and I certainly wouldn’t fault someone for liking it.
The ACSS reticle is a nice feature by itself (plus the etched reticle works without batteries, which is good because I'm forever leaving the optics switched on), though I understand there are some reflexes with it now (talk about a mess for even a mild astigmatism, though)
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 7:10:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By barnbwt:
The ACSS reticle is a nice feature by itself (plus the etched reticle works without batteries, which is good because I'm forever leaving the optics switched on), though I understand there are some reflexes with it now (talk about a mess for even a mild astigmatism, though)
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Originally Posted By barnbwt:
Originally Posted By doty_soty:
Originally Posted By Aphex:
Originally Posted By doty_soty:

Also it’s 2019, do many people that have a choice really choose an AUG over an AR as a primary weapon? I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
https://i.imgur.com/p9l8erW.jpg

What kind of work are you referring to and why is an AUG not up for consideration?
Anything where I’d be using a rifle for real (which for me, these days, is almost surely some imagined hypothetical scenario anyway). I wouldn’t hesitate to use my AUG, they’re great rifles, but it’s personally not my first choice. But that’s ok, neither would anything else except for my SR-15.

ETA not to derail from the thread. I don’t consider the Cyclops an ideal optic except for maybe if a user wants 1X and has astigmatism, but I’m sure it works great and I certainly wouldn’t fault someone for liking it.
The ACSS reticle is a nice feature by itself (plus the etched reticle works without batteries, which is good because I'm forever leaving the optics switched on), though I understand there are some reflexes with it now (talk about a mess for even a mild astigmatism, though)
Yeah the ACSS reticle out of these lower powers just really doesn’t work well for me. With my ACSS Holosuns (incidentally the optic that’s on my AUG) they’re alright because you can flip a magnifier in front of them and have a very usable 3X BDC, but unmagnified I might as well just have a dot because the holdovers are useless for me. Even the 1.5X TA44 ACSS I had just wasn’t cutting it.

It’s probably nice for those with better eyes. I’d have loved it 10 years ago, but these days whatever benefits the 1X ACSS provides are totally lost on me.
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 9:42:52 PM EDT
I have the 2.5 power on an AR that works well, even at 25 yards, something to consider.
Link Posted: 11/22/2019 5:37:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
I have the 2.5 power on an AR that works well, even at 25 yards, something to consider.
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I have that as well; I found it made the RDB top heavy (at least when unloaded).  Just a tad large & weighty for what I consider a lightweight & handy gun.  A 2.5x ACOG is probably lighter & more compact (but also rather pricey for doing essentially the same thing)

A 3-4x sight (or more) would be grand if we ever get an accuracy-based build put together.  I keep trying to get some new barrel parts so I can try making a version in Grendel or something, and with a nicer barrel blank.
Link Posted: 11/22/2019 11:13:35 AM EDT
The ACSS reticle is pretty useless at magnifications under 3x. In my mind it's an evolution of the original Steyr AUG donut of death and shows how brilliant it was for Steyr to use the simple calibrated ring with a 1.5x optic
Link Posted: 11/22/2019 4:03:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By doty_soty:

I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
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AUG has more "work" experience than a SR 15.
Link Posted: 11/22/2019 11:31:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2019 11:45:54 PM EDT by doty_soty]
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Originally Posted By hobo:
AUG has more "work" experience than a SR 15.
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Originally Posted By hobo:
Originally Posted By doty_soty:

I love my AUG but if I’m grabbing a rifle for ‘work’, I’m grabbing my SR-15.
AUG has more "work" experience than a SR 15.
And the Mosin has more “work” experience than either, which is irrelevant not only to which is better, but to the thread topic as well. Like, I never said you had to use what I use lol

Back on topic: OP says his RDS had issues washing out. I have to feel like that’s not giving the RDS optic a fair shake as there are definitely RDS that are stupid bright, not that there is anything wrong with the Cyclops or anything, but to me (for whatever that’s worth) a 1X prism is mostly for a RDS replacement for an astigmatism. Having fixed eye relief on a 1X is a handicap that would bother personally, but obviously that’s subjective.

OP, have you tried something like an Aimpoint? Because as a generality, they get really really bright, they’re usually the benchmark other optics are held to (ie: “but is it Aimpoint bright?”).
Link Posted: 11/25/2019 1:46:26 PM EDT
I too have been evaluating a PA Cyclops for use on my USR/A2 and while I like it I certainly wouldn't call it perfect for the AUG.

Pros:

Good reticle, works well in daylight even without illumination. Illumination is bright.

Solid build quality.

Clear glass. Great sight picture as long as the lenses are clean.

Eye box is large enough.

Doesn't obscure much FOV.

Cons:

Not as fast as a red dot. Shooting heads up both eyes open your brain has to process through even the minor optical distortion from the prism and it just isn't as fast as a HWS or red dot. No surprise there.

In snow or rain visibility suffers through the lens worse than a red dot or magnified optic. It becomes an OEG rather quickly rather than being able to shoot through the glass. This hampers low light performance.

It is heavy compared to a red dot due to all the glass.

For me, I don't think it is going to stay on the AUG. It will probably end up on a PDW of some kind. The AUG is a rifle and a heavy one at that and I would prefer some magnification on it for target ID and low light performance.

I have a 4X ACOG on my other AUG and like that better but I am going to try some of the other cheaper prism scopes on the market now in the 3x-6x range and see how they stack up.



On a related note, you do get a bit of flash with that bare muzzle shooting commercial 55 gr ball. I will be getting a flash hider on this thing asap.

Link Posted: 12/7/2019 10:13:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

I too have been evaluating a PA Cyclops for use on my USR/A2 and while I like it I certainly wouldn't call it perfect for the AUG.

Pros:

Good reticle, works well in daylight even without illumination. Illumination is bright.

Solid build quality.

Clear glass. Great sight picture as long as the lenses are clean.

Eye box is large enough.

Doesn't obscure much FOV.

Cons:

Not as fast as a red dot. Shooting heads up both eyes open your brain has to process through even the minor optical distortion from the prism and it just isn't as fast as a HWS or red dot. No surprise there.

In snow or rain visibility suffers through the lens worse than a red dot or magnified optic. It becomes an OEG rather quickly rather than being able to shoot through the glass. This hampers low light performance.

It is heavy compared to a red dot due to all the glass.

For me, I don't think it is going to stay on the AUG. It will probably end up on a PDW of some kind. The AUG is a rifle and a heavy one at that and I would prefer some magnification on it for target ID and low light performance.

I have a 4X ACOG on my other AUG and like that better but I am going to try some of the other cheaper prism scopes on the market now in the 3x-6x range and see how they stack up.

https://i.ibb.co/5MhJ6mX/USR-with-1x-Prism.png

On a related note, you do get a bit of flash with that bare muzzle shooting commercial 55 gr ball. I will be getting a flash hider on this thing asap.

https://i.ibb.co/j8Xb9gG/USR-M193-11-24-2019.png
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Dude, your cheek riser is on the new Call of Duty. This is actually the only place I've seen somebody post it.

WRT this thread and optics: I think everybody has to evaluate their own use cases as well as their own terrain. For example, if you live in the mountains of Colorado, magnified makes more sense than here in the Southeast with dense foliage everywhere. Also, if you shoot with night vision, nothing, absolutely nothing is better than an EOTech EXPS-3 series optic. Throw on a magnifier for longer range shooting.

Also, I think an AUG makes a perfectly sensible SHTF rifle. It's compact, concealable in a backpack, accurate enough, uses a common caliber, and if you get the NATO version or use an MSAR E4 stock can use common mags.
Link Posted: 12/7/2019 10:47:02 AM EDT
SpyHawk, do you have experience with the MSAR E4 stock accepting the AUG "upper"?
Link Posted: 12/7/2019 10:49:38 AM EDT
SpyHawk, do you have experience with the MSAR E4 stock accepting the AUG "upper"?
Link Posted: 12/8/2019 7:39:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2019 7:40:11 AM EDT by SpyHawk]
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Originally Posted By xdmikey:
SpyHawk, do you have experience with the MSAR E4 stock accepting the AUG "upper"?
View Quote
I haven't done it myself, no, but I know people that do. I *think* you need the MSAR trigger pack to go with it. I vaguely recall a thread (or threads) on it over at the bullpup forum some time back as well.
Link Posted: 12/8/2019 9:09:52 AM EDT
Swampfox Blade (soon)
Link Posted: 12/10/2019 8:50:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:
I haven't done it myself, no, but I know people that do. I *think* you need the MSAR trigger pack to go with it. I vaguely recall a thread (or threads) on it over at the bullpup forum some time back as well.
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Originally Posted By SpyHawk:
Originally Posted By xdmikey:
SpyHawk, do you have experience with the MSAR E4 stock accepting the AUG "upper"?
I haven't done it myself, no, but I know people that do. I *think* you need the MSAR trigger pack to go with it. I vaguely recall a thread (or threads) on it over at the bullpup forum some time back as well.
I have the e4 stock and several trigger packs but I don't want to get my AUG stuck in an MSAR stock.
Link Posted: 12/14/2019 11:47:12 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:
Dude, your cheek riser is on the new Call of Duty. This is actually the only place I've seen somebody post it.

WRT this thread and optics: I think everybody has to evaluate their own use cases as well as their own terrain. For example, if you live in the mountains of Colorado, magnified makes more sense than here in the Southeast with dense foliage everywhere. Also, if you shoot with night vision, nothing, absolutely nothing is better than an EOTech EXPS-3 series optic. Throw on a magnifier for longer range shooting.

Also, I think an AUG makes a perfectly sensible SHTF rifle. It's compact, concealable in a backpack, accurate enough, uses a common caliber, and if you get the NATO version or use an MSAR E4 stock can use common mags.
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Originally Posted By SpyHawk:
Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

I too have been evaluating a PA Cyclops for use on my USR/A2 and while I like it I certainly wouldn't call it perfect for the AUG.

Pros:

Good reticle, works well in daylight even without illumination. Illumination is bright.

Solid build quality.

Clear glass. Great sight picture as long as the lenses are clean.

Eye box is large enough.

Doesn't obscure much FOV.

Cons:

Not as fast as a red dot. Shooting heads up both eyes open your brain has to process through even the minor optical distortion from the prism and it just isn't as fast as a HWS or red dot. No surprise there.

In snow or rain visibility suffers through the lens worse than a red dot or magnified optic. It becomes an OEG rather quickly rather than being able to shoot through the glass. This hampers low light performance.

It is heavy compared to a red dot due to all the glass.

For me, I don't think it is going to stay on the AUG. It will probably end up on a PDW of some kind. The AUG is a rifle and a heavy one at that and I would prefer some magnification on it for target ID and low light performance.

I have a 4X ACOG on my other AUG and like that better but I am going to try some of the other cheaper prism scopes on the market now in the 3x-6x range and see how they stack up.

https://i.ibb.co/5MhJ6mX/USR-with-1x-Prism.png

On a related note, you do get a bit of flash with that bare muzzle shooting commercial 55 gr ball. I will be getting a flash hider on this thing asap.

https://i.ibb.co/j8Xb9gG/USR-M193-11-24-2019.png
Dude, your cheek riser is on the new Call of Duty. This is actually the only place I've seen somebody post it.

WRT this thread and optics: I think everybody has to evaluate their own use cases as well as their own terrain. For example, if you live in the mountains of Colorado, magnified makes more sense than here in the Southeast with dense foliage everywhere. Also, if you shoot with night vision, nothing, absolutely nothing is better than an EOTech EXPS-3 series optic. Throw on a magnifier for longer range shooting.

Also, I think an AUG makes a perfectly sensible SHTF rifle. It's compact, concealable in a backpack, accurate enough, uses a common caliber, and if you get the NATO version or use an MSAR E4 stock can use common mags.
Interesting, I have never seen the new Call of Duty, I just made that cheek riser out of a sheet of kydex because I didn't like how easily the ejection port cover could fall off the A2 stock so this functions as a port cover and riser. SO far it has worked really well. I am going to add a brass deflector to it also as a further improvement.

I totally agree that nothing beats an eotech for heads up passive NV use that I have found.

Apparently the new compact magnifier from Vortex works pretty well with the 1x Prism scopes, so I think I am going to try that to see if it works better for me.

I am also going to try piggybacking a red dot on top of a 3x or 5x prism scope to see how I like that.

I have a bunch of optics I am trying on the AUG: TA-01 ACOG, PA Cyclops 1X, Vortex 1X prism, PA 3X prism, PA 5X prism, Sightmark 5X prism, and maybe a couple others. I'll try to do a write up of some kind when I have time.
Link Posted: 12/14/2019 11:51:00 AM EDT
i put a Steiner 3x Prism scope on my a3 and really like it. bought a few when they were $299 last year
Link Posted: 12/14/2019 12:28:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Landpimp:
i put a Steiner 3x Prism scope on my a3 and really like it. bought a few when they were $299 last year
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Oh interesting, I didn't even know Steiner made a prism scope, I'll have to track one of those down as well, thanks for the info!
Link Posted: 12/21/2019 3:43:06 AM EDT
I have experience with using a Steyr AUG in an MSAR E4 stock. It does require you to use the MSAR trigger pack body as the bolt catch or release are different. I don't know if it would work with an AUG trigger pack at the loss of the bolt catch.

My buddy is a lefty but also semi-ambi and shoots both right and left (I hate him for that). An AUG is a dream gun for him. He would prefer to use M4 mags. As you know the AUG NATO stock does not have a LH ejection port. I asked him what was more important, LH eject or the NATO mags. He said NATO mags.

Then I thought, hmm, maybe he can do both. So I took my AUG, threw an MSAR E4 stock and trigger pack on it and the left hand bolt. Then I put a Surefire 60rd mag in it and ran that through twice. PERFECTION!

I actually prefer the MSAR E4 stock as it has the finger groove, more QD sling points and more rail mount options.

tsh77769
Link Posted: 12/21/2019 8:12:54 AM EDT
Has anyone run a Steiner P4Xi on an AUG?

Kyle Defoor says LPVOs are as fast as a red dot for him on an AR.

Kyle Defoor on the Benefits of Running Low Power Variable Optics
Link Posted: 12/21/2019 9:42:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RickyRifle:
Has anyone run a Steiner P4Xi on an AUG?
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I am. I posted a pic of my setup near the top and what I think of a LPVO on an AUG.
Link Posted: 12/21/2019 9:09:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RickyRifle:
Kyle Defoor says LPVOs are as fast as a red dot for him on an AR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzPlsr5vjaM
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Then he could get faster on the RDS.

At the point magnification becomes beneficial (usually 150 yards+) the LPVO can be almost as fast, but at shorter distances where no magnification is needed, a shooter with equal experience using both should be noticeably faster with a RDS.

The longer distances where magnification helps you is where the LPVO shines.
For that magnification, you're trading a little speed, and more weight added to the weapon.
Link Posted: 12/22/2019 11:05:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2019 11:09:45 AM EDT by Aphex]
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:

Then he could get faster on the RDS.

At the point magnification becomes beneficial (usually 150 yards+) the LPVO can be almost as fast, but at shorter distances where no magnification is needed, a shooter with equal experience using both should be noticeably faster with a RDS.

The longer distances where magnification helps you is where the LPVO shines.
For that magnification, you're trading a little speed, and more weight added to the weapon.
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If you watched the video; the presenter says that's simply not the case in his experience.

In my opinion, the only downsides of using a LPVO (at any magnification) is going to be eye box and weight. The first can be trained around but the second will always be there.
Link Posted: 12/22/2019 12:42:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2019 12:50:14 PM EDT by KitBuilder]
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Originally Posted By Aphex:
If you watched the video; the presenter says that's simply not the case in his experience.

In my opinion, the only downsides of using a LPVO (at any magnification) is going to be eye box and weight. The first can be trained around but the second will always be there.
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Then my experience differs from his, or he is biased towards selling LPVOs. (Notice he said, "I don't work for an optics company right now.")

I own and use both, and train people using both.

The eye box is what makes the RDS faster. They're extremely forgiving (especially those RDS with the lowest parallax).

If a RDS user is spending time centering their eyeball between shots (as necessary with a LPVO) then it's wasted time.

Conversely, the only time a LPVO user can be "just as fast" is when they don't need to make any such adjustments.

The more the LPVO user has to run around (and change positions), the more time they'll spend centering their eye box.

That's why RDS wins the race (until the distance is great enough the RDS user spends time figuring out exactly where they need to aim.)

Whenever magnification isn't an aid, the RDS will be faster.
Link Posted: 12/22/2019 1:54:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Then my experience differs from his, or he is biased towards selling LPVOs. (Notice he said, "I don't work for an optics company right now.")

I own and use both, and train people using both.

The eye box is what makes the RDS faster. They're extremely forgiving (especially those RDS with the lowest parallax).

If a RDS user is spending time centering their eyeball between shots (as necessary with a LPVO) then it's wasted time.

Conversely, the only time a LPVO user can be "just as fast" is when they don't need to make any such adjustments.

The more the LPVO user has to run around (and change positions), the more time they'll spend centering their eye box.

That's why RDS wins the race (until the distance is great enough the RDS user spends time figuring out exactly where they need to aim.)

Whenever magnification isn't an aid, the RDS will be faster.
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How much faster are you with a RDS over a LPVO at 1x?
Link Posted: 12/22/2019 3:31:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2019 4:07:30 PM EDT by KitBuilder]
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Originally Posted By Aphex:
How much faster are you with a RDS over a LPVO at 1x?
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I don't have a timer, so I cannot give you numbers.
I can tell I'm a little slower with the LPVO though.

Edit: Here's a multi-part article where Kyle Defoor states the LPVO is slightly slower: http://soldiersystems.net/2016/08/06/gunfighter-moment-kyle-defoor-11/
then goes on to discuss eliminating the speed difference through proper mounting and usage: http://soldiersystems.net/2016/09/10/gunfighter-moment-kyle-defoor-12/
Link Posted: 12/22/2019 5:26:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aphex:
How much faster are you with a RDS over a LPVO at 1x?
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I've been using a lpvo meopta kdot for some time now. I've switched it back and forth from AUG to AUG and even used it on a 9mm gun briefly.

In competition, I'm noticeably quicker with an aimpoint or cmore than I am with the kdot. The kdot is awesome on 4x, but for myself it is slower on 1x close up shooting compared to a traditional red dot.

My .02.
Link Posted: 12/23/2019 7:03:19 AM EDT
Wonder why the K-Dot is a bit slower?
Cluttered reticle as opposed to the AimPoints single dot?
Link Posted: 12/23/2019 7:46:05 AM EDT
I run a trijicon TR24G on one.  I love it and it works great.  To me, the LPVO will always be slower in improvised shooting positions at red dot distances.  Try shooting a vtac in a match at a target 100ish yards out with a forgiving LPVO [think razor gen 2] then try it with an aimpoint or eotech.  The results are easy for anyone to see.  For most people who carry their rifle to the range and back to have fun, LPVO will make them very happy.  But for speed with "enough" precision like in competition, there is a clear reason open class shooters have a red dot AND an optic.  Hint, for most the Optic stays on something higher than 1x to he used for long precision shots only.
Link Posted: 12/23/2019 5:46:30 PM EDT
I put MagPul MBUIS on my Steyr Aug A3 with a Vortex Razor AMG UH1. Plenty of room for the iron sights and the Vortex Holosight. The Vortex Razor has a QD mount, so, if the holosight breaks down, I can quickly and simply remove it and use the backup iron sights. Holosights always worked better for me than any red dot  sights.
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