i have been casually looking at getting a machine gun. a quick google search showed that some of the "affordable" MGs are Stens, Reisings, or some variant of the mac 10/11.

i'm trying to stay below $7500-$8000 + stamp and other costs

my personal preference is the Sten, but i know so little about each one that i am hesitant to pick favorites without asking y'all's opinion

thank you

Sten

I owned  Norrell STEn.
Fun, and parts are common. Buy it.

I would give the M11/9 a good hard look. Lots of aftermarket parts that really transform the firearm into something really shootable.

Sten over a Reising any day of the week. Another possibility in the same price range would be a MK760.

He is right.

I bought my first MG last November and was approved 2 weeks ago. I did a lot of researching before buying.

The SWD M11/nine is what you want. Lage and a few other companies are making uppers for them which is causing the price to sky rocket up compared to other MGs.

Right now is the time to buy. Lage has just started shipping the 5.56 uppers for them and Tatical innovations just released a statement about a AM180 ( drum fed 22lr) upper.

The prices are starting to climb on them. I gave less than 8k for mine. Now most of the big dealers are asking 8k +.

As a second MG I would then consider the 2 that you listed. And out of those 2 I would probably lean towards the Sten. Wish someone would make tungsten bolt for the Reising to slow the rate of fire down.

Have not fired a sten or reising. Personally wouldn't buy either, the sten seems very heavy and crudely constructed and I have mediocre reviews on the reising.

if you don't care about WWII history I would  strongly recommend a mac MG.

I own a M11 with Lage max11k upper and it handles and feels great, the Lage products have really modernized the platform and made it a viable subgun for competitions or just plinking tin cans in your back yard with friends and family.

If you like WW2 history then haNds down, get the Sten. Fun, 100% reliable and very smooth.

If if you don't care about the historical aspect then get the M11/9. Very customizable with the Lage accessories.

My experience;
Got a sten, then got a m10, sold the m10, got an m16.

I would do it all over again the same way.  
I love the sten, IMO much more fun than a Mac.  
An m11/9 is a little different of course, but I just don’t like the macs for some reason.

Hard to describe, but I just feel like they don’t have any personality....like I said hard to describe.

If I was to move on from the sten, it would be for an uzi, but don’t even know if I’d do that, I like the sten that much.
Suppressed sten
Chugs along like a train.....

The sten has character, and I’m probably in the minority but I think it looks fantastic.  Modularity is overrated.  I like my firearms to do what they were originally designed to do.  I have a stock adapter and an optic mount for the sten, but I don’t really use them much.

Think of it like this, the original design of a firearm should be great, it shouldn’t need a makeover with new parts to transform it into something it never was......

If you do want modularity though, the m11/9 can’t be beat, and lage is making great stuff.

Not everyone looking for an mg is looking for modularity though, so hearing that advice gets slightly annoying.

ETA:  spartikis-this might be hard to believe but I think the sten is lighter than an m10....if not on paper, certainly feels like it, and it balances in your hands and shoulders better.

Yeah the m10 is a brick at almost 6.3 lbs unloaded. The sten is around 7.1 unloaded and the m11/9 is 4.3 lbs unloaded.

The m11/9 with max11k upper and folding stock is 5.5lbs unloaded, 6.3 loaded. Add a suppressor and optic to that and you're looking at around 7-ish lbs for the whole package.

Now if we really want to talk heavy guns, the Thompson comes in at around 12 lbs loaded with a stick mag, even more with a drum. Now that's an excessively heavy subgun

Sten is 9mm open bolt, has cheap mags (VERY hard to load), cheap spare parts and is smooth. like a leather sewing machine.

Reising is 45acp closed bolt, has $ mags (Very easy to load), fragile firing pins, and shoots a little fast IMO

get both

What do you want to with it?  General blasting / recreational shooting?  Or subgun competitions?  Or something else?  Because it might make a difference.

I was debating between a Reising and a STEn a dozen or so years ago.  I ended up getting the Reising, as it gave me a gun to shoot in "Classic" class at the ISSMC match, and it also gave me a Closed Bolt gun to use at Knob Creek.  Subgun matches don't happen every weekend, so you shoot in as many classes as possible when you do go to them.  I already had a tricked out M11/9 and a MAC10/45, so this was just for additional shooting opportunities.

I don't think I would have done it differently.  But the Reising is not an ideal candidate for competitive subgun shooting.  I don't think I've pulled it out of the safe since the last time I went to the Creek in 2016.  I still sometimes debate selling it to fund something else.

It would be nice to slow the Reising down a bit, but there are not a lot of expedient methods to do this.  I would like to mount a red dot on it, but I'm not going to drill and tap my 70-year-old war veteran.  So I shoot it ever 2-3 years when I go to the Creek.

It's actually a pretty good gun for recreational blasting.  I just have other subguns that get the nod first.

Ideally, you could try to find somewhere to shoot a Reising and a STEn next to each other.  Those opportunities are hard to come by sometimes though.

I got a MAC-10 several years ago as my only full auto. In retrospect I should have got an M11/9 since Lage makes all his goodies first for it.

But I am happy with the reliability of the gun using OEM style uppers.

Glad I did not buy a Sten or Reising.

I currently have Reising and have a Sten pending.
I bought Reising first really just because i thought
It was an interesting design, it shoots nice with very
little muzzle rise considering it’s high rate of fire.

The biggest issue with the Reising is PARTS.

Magazines are expensive(minimum $90 new from keystone arms.$130ish on gunbroker).

Firing pins are fragile and break sometimes(keystone arms also has titanium firing pins).

Bolts break and there really is no good commercial source of Surplus bolts or new made bolts. They pop up every now and then on gunbroker or strum. Usually at least $100.

This to me is the biggest problem with the Reising.
I like mine and shoot it a couple times a year but it
Is better gun to colllect than to do heavy shooting with.

I bought the sten for this reason, cheap or cheapish parts and ammo.

Here’s a few links if you’d like to know more about the Reising.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/reising-m55-submachine-gun-at-james-d-julia/

https://www.amazon.com/Reising-Submachine-Automatic-Semiautomatic-50-55-60-65/dp/B000H7N814

As with most things on here you should probably get both.

Hard to add to what has been already been stated.  But I'll give it a shot.

To start I own a Reising, an M11/9, a Sterling, an UZI & a FN FAL.  I don't own a STen, but the Sterling is very close & I have shot some STens.

As has been stated, what are your plans for the gun?  This is very important.

A recreational shooter?  By all means get the STen.  My Sterling is my favorite of all of my MG's.  It handles well & shoots so smooth that it outclasses every other SMG that I have shot.  The STen is very similar.

Are you a hard core competitor?  Then the M11/9 is the only choice.  Provided that you get all of the Lage goodies for the gun.  In stock form, the gun just sucks.  You should at the very least get a red dot, a VFG, a heavy bolt & some sort of actual stock.  That is what I have done to mine & it is a nice little SMG now.  But it is still not a nice general purpose SMG.

Modularity?  Big deal.  Most people that I know (myself included) set the gun up one way & leave it.  Modularity is more of a theory than an actual practice.

The Reising?  I haven't shot mine much lately.  I always hear about breaking parts so recently the gun stays in the vault most of the time.  But when I did shoot it, I shot it a lot & it always worked.  It doesn't shoot the best, it is pretty fast & the ergonomics are pretty "old School".  Plus the trigger feels like a heavy double action revolver, so forget about tapping singles or even two round bursts without a lot of practice.

If I was in your position, with your stated choices of guns & knowing what I know now.  The STen would be the obvious choice.

I'll give this a stab.  I dont own the reising or sten.  I do however own an m11/9.  When I was looking for my first mg I was looking for an affordable entry mg that would be a lot of fun.  Around the time I was looking at an m11/9, I stumbled onto lage's info.  I researched and watched videos of his platform.  I knew then that the modularity and configurable options that lage offered was what I was looking for.  9mm is cheap enough to have a blast with.  Then came the .22 kit.  Even better as I have decent amount of .22's and cheaper to shoot.  The parts for them are also plentiful and not expensive.  Dont get me wrong you will end up with a bunch of wants and needs for it.

The weakest part of the m11/9 are the magazines.  The factory zytel mags are garbage.  Shockwave technologies is the answer for that.  They are very reliable.  I havent had any failures with the mags I purchased.

For me being able to use two different platforms (uppers) to turn the mg into two different purposes for me was a plus.  I bought the m11/9 with the intention of shooting it as much as I could while having loads of fun that was easy on the wallet.  Fortunately I got into my m11/9 at a decent price compared to todays market, not as good as others who got into FA much sooner than I did off course.

As my first MG, I could not be any happier with my decision.  After getting a lage upper, .22kit by lage, shockwave technologies mags, it is a sewing machine.  I dont leave home without it.  If I could justify another m11/9 I would get another.  I recently in the last 2 yrs purchased an m16.  While I love it and prefer it, I just cant afford to shoot it as much as I would like to lol.

Lage has released the 5.56 upper versions, if that is in your future but funds dont allow for a full auto 5.56 platform, then m11/9 is your option between the three.  I would think about what you want out of the platform you are deciding between and go for it.  They are not getting any cheaper.

If you are looking and highly considering the m11, I wouldn't wait any longer before everyone catches up on the 5.56 option.  They are already starting to go up.  In my opinion they will go up even more once the majority has figured out the new upper that Lage is manufacturing.

Good luck in your decision.  Whatever you choose, have fun!  Let us know what you end up getting ;)

Ok, this is the voice of experience here, let me tell you how this is going to go.

Your going to do tons of research about each of your possibilities. You will spend hours reading advice, looking at listings and accessories, and watching your bank account to see if you can afford it. After weeks of fretting about which choice you are going to make you will pull the trigger on one, and you'll be happy.

Then begins the long wait till you can get your hands on it. In the meantime, you'll be buying all the parts and accessories you previously looked at. Then the magical call comes to tell you its ready to be picked up. You rush over, all excited about your new toy, and then rush to the range to try it out. You'll have the most fun you've ever had behind a trigger and then you'll take it home, clean it up and set it in the safe.

Then somehow you find the internet browser open, looking at listings for the ones you didn't choose.

And that, my friend, is how you end up owning a Mac, a sten, a reising, Thompson, and m16 when you only wanted a entry level.

Oh look! A 1919....

True

Buy the first GOOD deal you see,

and or or go to MG shoot and shoot everything.

then go home and the next morning you will know the MG you want to get.

Stens aren't heavy guns.  I own around 40 different machine guns of all types and the Sten is one of the most enjoyable and best MGs out of all of them.  The way it feels when shooting is great, and the thing is so simple and parts are so cheap, it's hard not to enjoy it.  They aren't for everyone of course, and everyone has their own opinions, but they are a FAR better machine gun than they may appear just based on looks and Google.

Gotta be honest. Your video is what put me over the edge to get a sten. Just gotta find the right gun now. Got a few offers out.

These type of comparison opinion threads are somewhat pointless given that you really need to try each before you buy especially at current prices. An M11 (factory or Lage'd) shoots very differently from a Sten which shoots very differently from an S&W 76/MK760. I've not shot a Reising but I imagine it handles differently from a Sten given the unique characteristics of the Sten itself.

I've heard the Reising is quite pleasant and reliable when maintained and fired in normal weather. It has WWII history. ROF is high from what I've seen. Mags are tough to come by and $$$. The fins on the compensator break easily.

A Sten in your price range won't be truly C&R in a collectors sense, but if you can get past the fact that the tube was made in the 1970's/80's here in the U.S. the rest of the gun can essentially by thought of as WWII surplus. They're rugged and reliable and easy to work on. Mags are cheap and plentiful. Personally however I find them mediocre and choppy to shoot, just generally unpleasant. Mind you I'd still buy one and play around with the bolt weight/FCG to smooth it out if I came across one at a great price, but I'm certainly not seeking one out.

M11 is a totally different gun from the above two, but it's already been covered fairly well above so I won't rehash it.

S&W 76 is probably out of your price range (they seem to be going for $11k+) but an MK760 might be found at $7-8k. I've heard they often have reliability issues however.

Yeah I love my m11. I’m thinking I might get a sten and maybe a m10 with the market slowing a bit. I would like to keep budget around 6-7k on sten as I might get an m10 soon too. I’m tired of semi autos.

I've always liked the look of the Sten guns, but have never shot one.

I know the Mac guns are popular and have a ton of aftermarket, but they just don't do anything for me.   The Lage stuff is clown shoes IMO.  Ridiculous looking, but I understand why the market exists.

I love me some clown shoes then.

Attached File

I’m glad he responded to your thread.  
He responded to a thread I made a few years ago asking a similar question.  Mikes answer was the same back then as it is now, and I highly valued his opinion based on his collection.  Hard to be biased when you have so many to choose from.
I still watch his sten videos even though I have my own

You won’t be disappointed with your decision.

Anybody do a double out of state transfer recently? Wonder how long they are taking? Also I need info on good builders for integrally suppressed sten barrels. Maybe something that looks kinda original. Curtis tactical maybe?

If you are talking about an out of state Form 4 transfer from an individual to a dealer I have been involved in two of them in the past year.

First one took about 10 weeks and the more recent one about 12 weeks.  I had one in 2017 that went quicker at around 8 weeks if I remember correctly.

To circle back. I got a sten. Or two.

Gotta get lots of mags and a loader. Getting some spare parts with one of the guns. What else do I need besides cool sten memorabilia?

every Sten I have handled makes an M11 look refined...  never handled an actual C&R gun.

unless you are into WWII aspects of it all, get a MAC.  Personally I find anything under 550 rpm kinda boring and a Sten is around 450 rpm.  I can run a semi auto MP5 clone about the same...

No matter what I do I can’t get my sten to run any slower than ~580 rpm.  I would love to get it down under 500 rpm.  I must know your secret.

Most commercial ammo gives me a cyclic rate in the high 600s though.

I own a few MG's and the Sten is the one that always goes out, it's a fun gun with a manageable rate of fire and suppresses easily. Whoever considers a Sten to be heavy should drop their Planet Fitness membership and pick up some weights.

The sten weighs 7.1 lbs unloads and 8.7 lbs loaded, not the heaviest SMG out there but def not the lightest either. While I agree if you cant lift 9 ish lbs you probably do need to hit the gym haha, but when people say its heavy I think its perception, more specifically when I pick up a small, pistol caliber firearm with no optic, sling, lights, lasers, etc...I expect it to be light weight, so to grab a bare bones SMG as small as the Sten and have it weigh 9lb is kind of a shock.

why are we talking about weight?

other the the Mac family, skorpion, the "12?" Hi power SMG very few are lighter. MP5a3 is 6.8lbs.

heavier
Uzi Stemple, MP18, 35, 38,40, smith and wession 76, sweidish K, SW76/760, all Thompsons, american, all Berettas, lanchester, grease gun, pps ppsh41, sterling,

If weight were a deciding factor, no one would want a Thompson.......

Most people want a Thompson....

I'm bored and the NFA forums are incredible slow lately. The most interesting thing on here is a month old post about Stens

I guess Ill go back to GD.

My first sten should be at my dealer as soon as the Efile form 3 approved. Thats exciting, at least for me. :)

good point.



Lets keep this bitch going.

I had a spare barrel $40, cut to 4.xxinch and threaded $75 so I can flush fit my CAC45. Not that quiet with 115gr, but love it...

Update! Got one of my stens transferred in. This is a unfired DLO MKii build. One question for the sten owners. My magazine housing has some rotational play as I have read is common. Did any of you guys adjust your paw that locks on barrel nutl for a tighter lockup? Anybody actually had one with enough play in it to cause feeding issues? Otherwise gun looks very good.

never heard of that,

make a fast video please.

OR just shot it and see.

Gun is still at my dealer. What I mean is when you rotate your magazine housing from vertical storage position to horizontal position for shooting does it lock tight or does it wobbble up and down a little? The pawl locks onto teeth of barrel nut but still has some movement. I have seen people mention this but didn’t know how much movement is common.

Thanks.

Seems like videos I have seen show some wobble. Guess I just need to make sure it runs ok. I got lots of mags to find ones that fit good too. Seems like I can get a new paw (barrel nut catch) and spring then add some material to around the end and then file it to fit receiver hole so it would take up wobble. Just curious if anybody tried that mod before.

I can not stop laughing, I feel the exact same way about the Mac.....does not really appeal to me.

With that said, I have a Reising and it was a problem child until I tweaked the feed lips on the mags and it runs great, not one issue.......

a STEN can be good depending on who built it. Most of them are tube guns. Some were built right others not so much. Even C&R STENs can vary in quality. Mags are cheap but you might have to go through quite a few to get a bunch that work well in YOUR gun. I thought I really wanted one until I actually got to shoot one. I ended up buying a DLO Sterling Mk.IV instead to scratch my British SMG itch.

An SWD M11/9 or Powder Springs MAC m.10 is a good choice. Lage basically breathed new life into this series of machineguns. Without a Lage upper of some sort they are fun to look at and fun to pose with but are often shot once and then put away except for show & tell.

I could never warm up to the Reising. It looks like the ugly chick somebody brought to the party. Mags are hard to find and over $100 when you do (last time I checked into it). Also, they are like 12 rounds or some silly low count. Who wants a 12 shot machinegun? I understand the guns themselves can be finicky as well. I don't know much about them. Like I said, I couldn't get past the ugly looks...but I bet they have great personalities!