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Posted: 7/2/2022 4:37:03 AM EDT
Went to use some Titegroup powder and I noticed that the inside of the canister is coated with a single layer of powder.

Knocking or tapping the canister did nothing. That's some case of static cling.

Anything I can do?
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 6:42:23 AM EDT
[#1]
I wouldn't do anything until the canister is empty, then maybe stick a dryer sheet on a cleaning rod and scrape the sides of the canister see if that helps.  Nothing to lose.
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 7:22:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Never saw that in the can but I fo always give it a shake  if for nothing else to see how much is in the container.

As for clumping outside the can - I can't  imaging TG doing that in use.

Bullseye will do it in the hopper on humid days and 700X is terrible to the point where I won't  use it in the summer.
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 7:37:02 AM EDT
[#3]
I switched over from WSH to Titewad for some 7/8 12 ga loads and found a clump of powder lodged in the bushing. Guess I will be emptying the powder after each session now.
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 1:46:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 2:27:38 PM EDT
[#5]
I think the amount of graphite added to a batch of powder by the manufacturer can vary.  That graphite is important, more in some powders than others.

The static cling seen with powder is NOT something that’ll blow you up.  But it can make powder drops inconsistent, and it’s a hassle.  A graphite treatment for powder measures - and if needed for powder canisters - can correct “clingy” powder problems.

Note that just about any polymer (and yes, the nitrocellulose in smokeless powder is a polymer) has a surface charge.  How much depends on the material involved. All modern smokeless powder is based on nitrocellulose, but the different additives, deterrents, accelerators, solvents, etc. in different formulas will allow that surface charge to present itself in different ways.

Feel free to graphite your powder handling equipment, but don’t add graphite to your powder!  That will add weight to the powder and lead to all sorts of problems!
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 4:55:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 9:54:12 PM EDT
[#7]
There are a few great things about dryer sheets.  One is that they are often “free” in that we buy packages of ‘em for laundry so using a couple for non-laundry purposes is sort of invisible.  For those who say “you should just use a liquid fabric softener instead” I’ll point out that there are a lot of fabrics that liquid softeners don’t do anything to impact static, starting with just about anything “fleece”.

Another thing is that, despite there being a bunch of application specific products to “eliminate static” from LPs, electronics, they’re all liquids, or liquid-saturated wipes.  Not good for powder handling stuff.

Dryer sheets work by being coated with substances that have an excess of positive ions.  They attract the negative ions tumbling in hot air creates (especially with synthetic fabrics), equalizing their own charges in the process.  This means they have a finite amount of static reduction per sheet.

You can try old (like 40 years old) dodges like spraying diluted liquid fabric softener on stuff, but the film this creates is short term.  Washing in Dawn and NOT rinsing will also help, but it’s also short term.

Graphite isn’t permanent, but it takes a while for powder to wipe it off of surfaces and decrease its effectiveness.  The two-pronged approach, graphite AND dryer sheets, helps extend the effect of each.  And since this static charge is a “surface charge,” which is part of the nature of your polymer powder hopper, it’s a good idea to wipe down the OUTSIDE of the hopper now and then too.
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 11:16:15 AM EDT
[#8]
My TG always seems to do that.
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 1:09:06 PM EDT
[#9]
I've never had static cling with powder like I am having with the new (to me) WIN 244. I have to use a toothbrush to sweep out the powder measure when I'm done and double check the scale's pan for cling-ons when weighing charges.

I'll try the dryer sheet trick and see if that helps.
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 3:32:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 4:12:45 PM EDT
[#11]
I did two things to mitigate this with Titegroup powder in my PW 900.

- ground the machine and bench also if possible. It seems like having the powder jug on the bench helps with the cling once grounded.

- Pick up one of these. It's made of pyrex so you won't have discoloration and keeps the 40 to 42 percent nitrocellulose from eating into the powder hopper. Static is kept to a minimum.
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 4:30:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I think the amount of graphite added to a batch of powder by the manufacturer can vary.  That graphite is important, more in some powders than others.

The static cling seen with powder is NOT something that’ll blow you up.  But it can make powder drops inconsistent, and it’s a hassle.  A graphite treatment for powder measures - and if needed for powder canisters - can correct “clingy” powder problems.

Note that just about any polymer (and yes, the nitrocellulose in smokeless powder is a polymer) has a surface charge.  How much depends on the material involved. All modern smokeless powder is based on nitrocellulose, but the different additives, deterrents, accelerators, solvents, etc. in different formulas will allow that surface charge to present itself in different ways.

Feel free to graphite your powder handling equipment, but don’t add graphite to your powder!  That will add weight to the powder and lead to all sorts of problems!
View Quote


As an interesting aside to this topic, my wife works with pure, flake nitrocellulose in an industrial setting. They handle and use it by the 275 lb. drum. The drums are fiber board with metal rings and the nitro is packed inside special static-dissipating plastic bags. They are VERY aware of static electricity and all handling of open drums involves the worker and drum being bonded to a grounding strap. Without this, the static electricity just from pouring the flake nitro into a mixing vessel can create enough of a charge to ignite the material.
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 5:13:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Do they have to be used dryer sheets? My wife refuses to let them in our machine.
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 5:17:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 5:34:22 PM EDT
[#15]
There is a whole lot of misinformation about how "horrible for you and your family" dryer sheets are.  Almost all of it is bunk.  Buying a quality brand, avoiding fru-fru scents, and not depending on a wad of dryer sheets to make up for poor laundry practices (smelling less foul is NOT the same as clean - get the clothes clean and all you'll need is something to deal with static cling).  Here's a reasonably balanced article on the subject; balance is hard to find on this kind of subject, since you know that loud folks on the Interwebs are much smarter than career scientists who have spent decades studying chemistry and such. {sarcasm off}  

And here's a Snopes article on it too; unbiased, just researched.  NO product is 100% safe (since idiots will do all sorts of idiotic stuff).  Even water can kill you, and not just by drowning.  So being informed about the provable facts about dryer sheets (I wish I didn't have to write that), will allow you to disregard the granola flakes who think you should use a particular kind of stone to pound your clothes on - and they'll make you a great deal on one too.

I'm not saying your wife is overly concerned about nonsense, but there are an awful lot of people who are...

OK, deep breath Glenn...

A new dryer sheet can be used.  I'd rub it all over the outside of the powder hopper first.  That will help control the surface charge on the hopper's outer surface, and that will last longer.

A lot of people think the way a new sheet feels is...odd.  It's coated with a material that is supposed to soak up ions, and it's going to feel a little soapy.  No big deal in this application, since you're not going to be fondling the things for hours a day.
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 7:36:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There is a whole lot of misinformation about how "horrible for you and your family" dryer sheets are.  Almost all of it is bunk.  Buying a quality brand, avoiding fru-fru scents, and not depending on a wad of dryer sheets to make up for poor laundry practices (smelling less foul is NOT the same as clean - get the clothes clean and all you'll need is something to deal with static cling).  Here's a reasonably balanced article on the subject; balance is hard to find on this kind of subject, since you know that loud folks on the Interwebs are much smarter than career scientists who have spent decades studying chemistry and such. {sarcasm off}  

And here's a Snopes article on it too; unbiased, just researched.  NO product is 100% safe (since idiots will do all sorts of idiotic stuff).  Even water can kill you, and not just by drowning.  So being informed about the provable facts about dryer sheets (I wish I didn't have to write that), will allow you to disregard the granola flakes who think you should use a particular kind of stone to pound your clothes on - and they'll make you a great deal on one too.

I'm not saying your wife is overly concerned about nonsense, but there are an awful lot of people who are...

OK, deep breath Glenn...

A new dryer sheet can be used.  I'd rub it all over the outside of the powder hopper first.  That will help control the surface charge on the hopper's outer surface, and that will last longer.

A lot of people think the way a new sheet feels is...odd.  It's coated with a material that is supposed to soak up ions, and it's going to feel a little soapy.  No big deal in this application, since you're not going to be fondling the things for hours a day.
View Quote


Thanks Glen. She uses those wool ball things and makes her own soap. Clothes smell great.

I just need some damn dryer sheets. Dollar tree here I come!
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 8:24:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Interesting subject, I have heard of shot shell reloaders using static guard spray on the hulls. We used this stuff in rooms back in the day where we had PBX systems on carpeted floors, had to do that and wear grounding wrist straps when troubleshooting cards, in Central Offices we always have humidifiers running but have tile floors but I digress. There are methods to reduce or eliminate static. I still had a can in one of the bathrooms so I sprayed it on the mirror as a test. Minor residue, nothing crazy. Did the same with Bounce sheet, also left residue, different but comparable. Has anyone ever given Static Guard a try?
Link Posted: 7/3/2022 9:12:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thanks Glen. She uses those wool ball things and makes her own soap. Clothes smell great.

I just need some damn dryer sheets. Dollar tree here I come!
View Quote

The wool balls are fine - and reusable.  Homemade soap is awesome too.  But I cannot begin to list all of the "that can't possibly be something that goes with firearms in any way" things I've bought over the years to enhance my loading and gun maintenance tasks.  

Hit the Dollar Store and buy a couple boxes.  Go with as close to "unscented" as you can, 'cause that perfume gets intense after a while.
They don't go bad, and you'll have plenty of "static control sheets" to keep the static from messing with your powder.
Link Posted: 7/4/2022 11:15:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I don't have much trouble with static here in FL, but when I was in AK, that was a whole 'nother kettle o'fish.

I bonded (grounded) my presses and powder dispensers to the condo electrical ground and had virtually no issue with static.
Link Posted: 7/5/2022 2:24:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Well as for me all my reloading equipment is in my basement so on all my powder measures / Dillion, ect i ran one of those eye electrical connectors to the base of each of my presses, powder measures, ect and that took care of it for me. Keep in mind you got to have metal to metal contacts so u do have to sand off a little bit of the powder coating to get bare metal exposed. Before that i used the used dryer sheets and Alcohol swabs to get rid of the  static electricity.

Sorry edited to add that the other end if the wire has to be attached to something that is grounded. I have seen grounding kits online available for $30 to $40 which IMO is a rip off as its so simple to make ur own.
Link Posted: 7/7/2022 9:02:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Hodgdon CS rep said it's very difficult to "un-static" powder in a canister. It was suggested that I leave the canister open for a couple of days in an environment where the RH is about 50-60% and that the powder will not absorb an undue amount of humidity...not enough to damage it.

Link Posted: 7/7/2022 11:06:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hodgdon CS rep said it's very difficult to "un-static" powder in a canister. It was suggested that I leave the canister open for a couple of days in an environment where the RH is about 50-60% and that the powder will not absorb an undue amount of humidity...not enough to damage it.

View Quote

Hmmmm. Adding a “controlled” amount of atmospheric moisture to help even out the surface charge ON THE POWDER ITSELF is an interesting thought…
Link Posted: 7/7/2022 4:11:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 7/7/2022 4:21:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well they are the powder guys, I just know what worked for me.
View Quote


Since finding a stable environment with 50-60% humidity in this part of the world right now is an impossibility I am going to create a micro-environment using a gallon ziplock bag and a dampened piece of clean kitchen sponge:

Place opened canister of powder in ziplock bag, toss in the piece of dampened sponge, seal, and leave it undisturbed for a couple of days.

I do have some powdered graphite but it's in a small tube. I don't want to waste it. I'm guessing that if I do the method you described that the residual powder mixed with the graphite will have to be discarded. I'd prefer to do this as a last resort. Powder is valuable and the layer that's sticking to the inside of the canister is not insignificant.
Link Posted: 7/7/2022 4:22:53 PM EDT
[#25]
will also try rubbing the outside of the caniste with a bounce dryer sheet. It probably won't work but it's worth a try.
Link Posted: 7/7/2022 4:34:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 7/9/2022 10:33:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Graphite and powder are never mixed.

Powder can emptied, (Use a brush to get the sticking to the sides clean) a ziploc is the last place I would pour it. Just be adding more static to your problem.

No damp sponge should come anywhere near the powder.

https://i.imgur.com/xKVA7wml.jpg

You will need more graphite, I have a "quart" container I bought years ago for something else.

I'm sure Amazon sells it.

Reread my previous post on how to do it, not retyping all of that.


View Quote



Re-read your post. OK, that makes sense now.

I did some more reading up on the subject and the common denominator seems to be handling/opening powder in a very dry environment (air-conditioned). Here in the South the humidity is relentless for at least 8 months out of the year so AC is a given but we have also had some moderate warm periods where the humidity has been extremely low.

This canister of Titegroup didn't start out with this problem. This canister was opened 2 years ago and only a small amount has ever been used and it's been stored inside in a cool, dry environment. Too dry, I'm guessing.

So back to the stuff I read last night: several people on other forums suggest either reloading during times of moderate humidity or using a humidifier. Also to leave a freshly-opened canister of powder open in a moderately humid environment for a couple of hours prior to pouring any out into a dispenser. One person said that Titegroup is the only powder he's had problems with in terms of sticking.

Link Posted: 7/9/2022 1:40:07 PM EDT
[#28]
I've always been averse to exposing powder to humidity. Maybe that is an unfounded concern?

I wonder what the acceptable exposure to x% humidity is and how hygroscopic it is before it has a detrimental effect on storage and performance?

My wife's plant uses about 375,000 lbs of nitrocellulose a year and it comes stored in isopropyl alcohol to desensitized it. Other plants use water. In both cases, they don't want the material to combust.

Link Posted: 7/9/2022 3:54:08 PM EDT
[#29]
My A/C is very good at maintaining the inside relative humidity at pretty close to 50% most of the time.

In industrial situations, 50% is considered the standard.  Keeping the RH stable is often just as important as keeping a stable temperature for parts fitment and (probably more importantly) prevention of corrosion.  But chemical processes require specific humidity limits too.

I have seen some extremes in relative humidity management.  The PMEL at Albrook Air Force Station, Panama, kept the RH at 50%, +/- 1% 24/7.  There were at least 5 (probably more) freestanding dehumidifiers inside the lab, and they needed emptying (maybe 2 gallons? of water) a couple times a day.

So "exposing X" to humidity is not necessarily a bad thing, if you're increasing the RH toward 50%.  When dealing with powder, if it can be too dry, that means that if it gets "damp", it'll dry out.  Ideally, keeping your loading room humidity controlled would prevent this kind of problem.  I'm glad I don't have to worry about doing anything specific to keep my powder from getting too dry.
Link Posted: 8/12/2022 7:24:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Since I found a TG load that plays nice with polymer-coated bullets I am working on using up this canister of powder. Estimate the remainder wll load 300-400 more rounds at 3.4 gr per round.

I noticed that the canister was originally opened in 2014. It's only been used intermittently over the years to load small quantities of 9mm.

Yep, use it up and be done with it. Fortunately not experiencing any issues with the powder measure othe than some flakes sticking to the insides of the hopper tube. Dryer sheets aren't doing much to negate this.
Link Posted: 8/12/2022 10:36:29 AM EDT
[#31]
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