Last week i've decided i'm going to add a transferable M60 to the collection. I've bought two other Machine Guns in my life and i think it's time to up my game a little. I know there is lot's of information out there regarding transferable M60's, and perhaps i'm being slightly lazy by making this thread.. but if someone is willing to answer a few simple questions for me i'd be very grateful. First off, What is the general price range for an M60 in 2021?  is it around 50k-70k? I've been looking at this one New England Maremont M60 on GunSpot that's very lightly used, but he's asking 100k for it.. that's pretty steep, is such a price tag justified? Also, What brand would you guys consider to be the most valuable? Is Maremont more desirable than a Saco? Or a Saco more desirable than a R.I.A M60? And would you suggest i go with registered Trunnion or a registered receiver?  I don't really plan on shooting this gun much once i get one, in fact i have plans for it to be a conversation piece in my gun room, no doubt will i go shoot it a few times, but probably not much.   Any responses will be appreciated, Thanks.

If you're willing to spend the money, get a T-161 ......they show up every now and then, and are C&R.

I'd avoid an M-60 with the channel as the registered /marked component......

Original Saco/Maremont (transferable) guns are substantially harder to find than RIA guns....

Here's one for sale..

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19477-cr-qualified-m60-m-60-machine-gun-certified-65000/

I don't know him, but I think he's been on Sturm for a while.

I see, is it due to the possible stretching within the channel? That would be pretty sucky to spend a good amount of money on an m60 only for something like that to happen.  With what little i've read i already feel inclined to go with a trunnion.

Yeah, i was lookin at that one yesterday. It's too bad he doesn't have any pictures of it on the thread. i'd hate to contact him while i'm still in learning mode. Wouldn't wanna waste anyones time.

I don’t own any MG’s but there are other belt feds I’d buy before that. Especially at 70-100k.

Oh, i don't doubt that there is better GPMG'S out there, but for me the iconic look of the M60 is just such a beautiful piece of hardware from my perspective. I'm dying to go full Rambo with one haha. Plus i've always been captivated by those romanticized Vietnam era photos.

I love me some M-60 GPMG!

First off, congrats on being in a position to acquire a transferable M60.   I have had mine for over a decade and IMHO they honestly one of the best transferable belt feds out there and I have a decent number of other beltfeds as well.

In terms of your specific questions.

First off, What is the general price range for an M60 in 2021?  is it around 50k-70k?

Price can really vary depending upon the condition, make and model.   The low end are rebuilt guns with rewelded or barstock trunnion made by who knows who builders in the 70s and 80s.  These guns may dip into the high 40s for a road hard put away wet E1 config that may have a bunch of build gremlins in them from the get go, the middle tier are a mix of RIA E1s, Maremont E1s, and RIA E4/E6s which are now in the $50 to $70K range, and the top end being Marmont's that have been full rebuilt/restored into E4 and E6s or the handful of factory E3s that are $70 to $90K.

I've been looking at this one New England Maremont M60 on GunSpot that's very lightly used, but he's asking 100k for it.. that's pretty steep, is such a price tag justified?

I don't personally think so.  I don't think M60s are $100K guns at this point with the potential rare exception of an unfired Maremont that was upgraded to an E6 with a bunch of accessories and spare parts.

Also, What brand would you guys consider to be the most valuable? Is Maremont more desirable than a Saco? Or a Saco more desirable than a R.I.A M60?

Maremont is the parent company that was the primary USGI manufacturer of subsidiaries that made M60s in the 60s, 70s, & 80s and up to the late 90s/early 2000s when US Ord in NV. took over M60 production.  The actual M60 build work was done by a Maremont Corp subsidiary companies "New England Group" or "Saco/Lowell/Saco Defense"  all of whom were located in "Saco, Maine".   So effectively the Maremont Corp NEG/Saco-etc. built guns are pretty much all one in the same thing from a transferable standpoint and don't command any sort or pricing premium between the different markings.  (at some point General Dynamics bought Saco Defense in the 90s and made M60s as well)

RIA is Rock Island Armory.  RIA was owned by the same family (Reese) that owns Springfield Armory today and sorta has a niche for creating commercial companies with names similar to historic actual military arsenals.   The RIA guns are clearly what could be considered "commercial" receivers and as such do not have any actual defense contractor heritage. (other than some surplus parts).  That said RIA M60s are solid receivers and there are probably more transferable RIA M60s (500ish) out there than any other builder.  Like most commercial ventures there were reported quality/build issues with the initial RIA guns but those were resolved over time and most of those guns have since been corrected.

And would you suggest i go with registered Trunnion or a registered receiver?  

This question also really goes back to the brand discussion above, with the top two available transferable M60s types being USGI Maremont/Saco/NEG and RIA.    (The remainder primarily being made our of commercial and/or surplus parts by Phoenix Armory, Erb, Catco, etc.)

All original Maremont guns are registered Trunnions to the best of my knowledge.  The vast majority of RIA guns are registered channel guns with the exception of the first 50ish being both registered trunnion and channel as the serial number is on the trunnion and the maker identifications markings are on the channel so both parts are sorta married together.   These initial RIA guns also have surplus Maremont/Saco trunnions where the original serial # was milled out leaving an oval depression and a new serial was added.  The vast majority of the RIA guns are exclusively a registered channel gun as the serial and maker markings are both on the channel.

There are pros and cons to both types and a lot of it comes down to what you want in the gun.

If you want an original USGI military contractor built gun and don't plan to change or upgrade it than by all means go for the used registered trunion Maremont gun.

If you want a "shooter" that can be completely arsenal rebuilt by the current military contractor (US Ord) a RIA registered channel gun in better option imho.  Of course if money is no object than buy a brand new Maremont gun with a zero to no mileage trunnion and send it to US Ord for a E6 rebuild.

If you want a gun that can be rebuilt to like new a lot comes down to if the trunion is still considered to still be serviceable on a registered trunnion gun being evaluted for a rebuild.

The trunnion is the heart of the gun and to which the rails and ultimately the rear bridge attach that form the backbone of the receiver.  If a trunnion is damaged, worn, or the barrel socket egged out there are not a lot of good options for repair.   The channel is nowhere near as structurally important and the only real "structural" duty the channel performs is to hold the charging handle and the rear of the grip frame.

A square box piece of sheet metal is easier to repair, trim, weld or bend back into shape and that doesnt provide much in term of structural responsibility vs. a large chunk of complex shaped heat treated steel that holds everything (including the barrel) on the gun in alignment.  In my limited conversations with US Ord years back they have little to no concerns about a complete rebuild on a registered channel but if a registered trunnion is considered worn or damaged to the point of being unserviceable there isn't much they can do.  Granted the trunnion is the stronger part vs a sheet metal channel but the trunnions are actually pretty thin around the barrel socket and gas tube and can be damaged or get worn.

If your primary plans are for it to be a conversation piece in your gun room, than I would get a registered trunnion Maremont built gun.  These are the equivalent of the Colt M16A1 or Colt Thompson as they have the most pedigree and are the most factory "correct" M60s you can buy.

The RIA guns with registered channels are better for folks who want to save some money upfront and put those dollars toward a bolt on E4/E6 upgrade and/or a full US Ord receiver rebuild and then run the snot of of the gun with the ability to rebuild it again in the future or little worry about the mileage.

Personally I bought a registered channel RIA that was upgraded to an E4 and its been a flawless performer for me for a decade+.  One day I may send it it for a full receiver rebuild and E6 upgrade as well.

Hopefully this helps, and if you have any other questions, I am happy to help answer them if I can.

Edit to add, this thread needs at least one M60 picture for inspiration.  (My RIA M60E4 from a MG shoot in OK a couple years back)

That is some good information right there.
Thanks for sharing.

If I needed a belt fed to scratch an itch I’d get an HK seer in an HK21 clone.

Wow! Thank you so much for the meaty and very informational reply. After reading what you've told me i think it's safe to say i'll probably shift my direction towards a registered trunnion. Without a doubt i know the gun won't get used much, so i'm not very worried about wearing out the trunnion, i'd just hope it's in good condition whichever one i find, or perhaps if that guy on GunSpot will be willing to come down a bit on his price. I know upgrading the gun through US Ord to an E6  would make a much better firearm, but i just feel it would take away some of the old school cool in my opinion, but to each their own.

I hope you don't mind me asking sense you seem pretty knowledgable on this subject, but what do you know about the T161? If the Maremont M60 is the equivalent of the Colt M16A1, would the T161 be the equivalent of a military issued united states property M16A1? I was observing a T161 on GunSpot some time ago for around 80k, and it didn't take very long to sell; if i'm going for the ultimate conversation piece would that be the one i should probably lean towards?  

I'm probably a month out from actually "pulling the trigger" on going through with any sorta purchase, i'm just in the learning stages of this whole process, but that's the fun part in my opinion. Thanks again!

Yep! I actually plan on getting a Michaels Machines Hk23E.  I've got a fleming sear, so that would be a pretty fun host to have, no doubt.  I see there's an Hk23e for sale right now on Gunbrokers, but it's pretty overpriced at 20k+ I think i'll be patent and wait for MM to build mine for me.

The T161 are the original prototype M60s made by US government during development in the 1950s.   I would consider a T161 to be like an original Armalite prototype full auto AR15 or a Colt 601 before it was accepted by the Military as the  M16 and mass production turned over to Colt.

A significant portion of the value on these T161 guns came from the fact that they were all considered C&R guns and there were (or maybe still are) States where civilian machinegun ownership is legal but only for C&R machineguns.  So it you want an M16 or an M60 in say Minnesota, its got to be a original C&R version of that gun, which makes the available pool of guns to choose from pretty small.

I have a MM23EK for quite some time and MM21EK conversion kit for it as well.   MM is also wrapping up a full German parts build HK21E/23E off a HK G3 registered receiver for me.

The 21E/23E guns are no doubt sexy looking and between the M60 and the HK21E the HK guns from a conversation/showpiece perspective are just sinister looking.  They also have the caliber switch capability that the M60 really doesnt have (although there are some 5.56 M16 conversion kits floating around out there)

However, the M60 is the better gun and this is coming from an self confessed HK junkie.  The M60 has a better ROF,  loading process, recoil management, center of balance, parts availability, significantly reduced overall complexity, etc. compared to the HK series.

The M60 is a pretty simple firearm when you get down to it.  The HK21/23E family is ridiculously complex in the way only a German engineer could love.   There has got to probably be 100+ tiny parts and springs in the feed mech and burst group alone.   If somebody dumped an entire pile of individual parts that make up the 21/23E weapon system, you would probably spend all day assembling it assuming you know what you are doing in the first place.

Ah, that pretty interesting. From what you've described the Maremont seems to be what i'm probably looking for. I know it's all too soon for me to officially say right now, but your information helps clear the path a bit more for a novice such as myself.  Awesome M60 Btw! That's a mighty fine piece of machinery you've got there.    If i have any more questions i'll be sure to message you if you don't mind.  I appreciate your time.

I dont know much about the m60 but USA Liberty Arms in Fort Collins had one on the shelf last time I was there. Don't remember the price,seems like it was 65k.

Given what your stated intention with the M60 is I would agree, get a nice low-mileage Maremont variant E1.   I wouldn't personall spend extra coin to get a C&R M60 unless your State law requires only C&R guns. (or you are a C&R collector and made of money)

Then again I am a cheap bastard and bought an RIA M60 and generally like to buy my machineguns in the middle tier of pricing where I think the best value is.  Forged Oly M16s vs. Colts, RLL vs. DIASs, Savage 1928 Thompson vs. a 1921 Colt, Vector Uzi vs. IMI, USGI M1 conversion vs. a Winchester M2 carbine, Erb MP40 vs. Original German, Smith 76 vs. Swedish K, HK Sears vs. double push pin guns, etc.

I don't think the Germans know any other way BUT to make guns as complex as humanly possible, Haha.  After seeing the internals of the G11 it basically made me realize these guys are on a whole new level of crazy and that kraut space magic is real. I've got my Fleming sear set up in a burst pack, and i've thought about taking it all apart just to learn how it all works, but after watching some Youtube videos on it being done; it seems pretty daunting.   I think i'll leave it alone before i really get myself into something over my head.

FWIW, a nice Maremont was listed and sold on STURM by a well known dealer a couple weeks ago for 59K.
The Maremont listed on Gunspot for 100K is  crazy high.
A Maremont upgraded to E4 has been listed on GB for a few months as 86K (with no takers).
IMHO, a reasonable private sale for a Maremont would be  <60K in today's market.

A lot of good advice above.
I own multiple transferable M60s (both reg. trunions and reg. channels) - there are advantages to each.


If you want a collectable, get a Maremont; otherwise, pickup a gun that has already recently visited DO for a checkup/upgrade.

Contact them and ask. Just be truthful and just tell him your not a photo collector. Those are the people that annoy everyone.
I'm sure this person wants to sell it and him taking the time to forward a few photos shouldn't be an issues.. especially when they are asking for a lot of money.

Sturm has good people there.

Yeah.. I wouldn't take apart the HK trigger pack.. especially a burst pack. I haven't done it personally, but they are complex from what I read.  I just took a look at a S-1-3-F and they do look deceptively simple. The SEF pack is suppose to be simple, but I don't plan to take that thing apart unless I have to.

BTW as a show piece.. would any of your friends who see it know the difference between the M60's? I'm just thinking costwise.. a less desirable version might work just as well as the most desirable version. Possibly use the saved money to upgrade it to the E6.

IMHO, the e4 mod1 and e6 are a significant improvement over the original “E1”

Rail for sights
Better belt pull
Bipod off the barrel
Better barrels
More compact
Less weight
Safer oprod
Better trigger group attachment

Really, improvements all over for usability

Wall hanger, dunno, people will recognize original model better for sure...

The HK SEF packs (especially the SE semi auto only ones without an auto sear and trip) are really pretty easy to take apart, but back together, and overall are pretty simple in construction.  Once you have taken apart a SEF a few times, most folks with minimal practice I would presume would feel pretty comfortable taking them apart without assistance.  

The burst is a lot more complicated but you can still get the ejector, hammer spring (assuming you have a hammer spring tool), or even the sear+elbow spring out of the pack no problems to provide more access for cleaning assuming you are proficient with the SEF.

Once you dive deeper on a burst pack and want to remove the hammer, trigger, and burst guts, its generally best to have plenty of time/patience, be at your workbench with good lighting + storage cups for the myriad of parts, and if needed have google or youtube at the ready to help if you get stuck.  Similar to the S-E-F once you take a burst apart a few times I think most folks would become fairly proficient at it.

The 3 pt video series on youtube showing disassembly/reassembly of an HK burst pack are good .....however, I think the author makes the process a bit more difficult than it needs to be in a couple of key areas.

On disassembly, I personally prefer to remove the compression rod and spring from the counting wheel before trying to pull the hammer and eccentric can free of the shifter.  If you remove the compression rod + spring first it allows the shifter to move around easier not being tied to the counting wheel via the compression rod, which results in it making it easier to free the eccentric cam and hammer from the shifter.

The removal of and reinstallation of the counting wheel in the video isn't the way I would personally recommend doing it and as a result the author fights and pries on the counting wheel to get it in/out of the pack.   I personally drop the trigger/disco assembly out first, which then give you all the room you need to fully rotate the counting wheel 180 degrees making it super easy to clear the selector axle lock lever.  Removing the trigger also lets you put fingers through both sides of the trigger box to much more easily manipulate and spin the counting wheel 180 degrees to bypass the selector axle lock lever, and then spin it back 180 degrees into the proper orientation.

The video also goes to kinda tortured lengths to get the compression rod and compression rod spring back in using a paperclip and a hook tool while simultaneously trying to line up the compression rod and spring into the shifter without the hammer installed and then install the hammer + eccentric cam into the shifter without it all coming apart again.  

Its much easier IMHO to install the shifter, install the compression rod onto the counting wheel, install the hammer and once its all together then install the compression rod spring onto the compression rod and slip the compression rod into the shifter easy-peasy using the hammer to move/adjust the shifter to the right point to allow the compression rod to slip right into the shifter opening.  The way the video does it, its a lot more complicated and frustrating looking and risks sending the compression rod spring across the room never to be found again not to mention really needing three hands to do it that way.

I also prefer to install the autosear last as without it installed it lets you manipulate the  hammer with a finger through the front of the pack when trying to get the eccentric cam into the shifter cam opening while lining up the hammer for the hammer pin to be installed.  Thats just more personal preference to me though.

While the burst pack is certainly a lot more complicated than the SEF its not as much of the boogey man as internet lore make it out to be.   Do I take my burst pack apart on a regular basis, no...because its time consuming and kinda a pain in the ass.   However,  I do take it apart every year or two to clean all the caked on carbon and gunk out of the recesses.  I also wouldn't send a burst pack in the mail across the Country to replace a broken part either.  That said, I also wouldn't take a burst pack apart in the field as its got a bunch of small parts which are easy to lose if say you drop the compression rod in the dirt or launch the spring into the grass.  Burst pack specific parts also don't grow on trees like SEF parts do.

If you are not familiar with the HK trigger groups and want to become proficient with them, start with a semi auto only SE pack first, get confident with it as those as they are the simplest.  Then move on to a full auto SEF and once you have mastered the full auto SEF, if you have one get familiar with the 0-1-A ambi (but I wouldnt buy one just to take apart given their similarity to the SEF), and then wade into partial disassembly of a burst (hammer and sear) and then ultimately on to full disassembly/reassembly of the burst pack.

I had my E6 out the other day and let my buddy shoot a few rounds through it.  It’s an RIA upgraded by US Ord.  They are one kick ass company.



After being intimidated by my HK burst pack for years I finally stripped it apart.  The YouTube videos on assembly are life savers.  The burst pack isn’t nearly as scary after having it apart.  Plan for some extra time the first go around

Maybe I'll try my hand at the SEF.  It's just sitting around and I'm comfortable with disassembly and reassembling trigger groups. Besides it is just sitting around..

Hey Heaven.. Did you buy the M60?  I see it is now off the market in sturm

Haha, nope, wasn't me. But i'll probably be making a purchase before long ideally.   Hopefully something comes into the market around the 65k -70k 'ish mark Maremont wise, and i'll probably snap it up. For now i lurk.

The only E1 was/were prototype(s) developed to correct deficiencies identified after the M60 had been issued for a while and I doubt you'll ever see one for sale. The original M60 is just called the M60 (and also the T161 which was a late pre-production T design before type classification of the M60, as mentioned above). The T161 was produced in sufficient quantity to still appear on the market today.

M60E1
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The barrel assembly of the M60E1 was a unique design and other M60 barrels (M60, M60E2, M60E3 etc.) cannot interchange with it.

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This is the T161E3.

Note the adjustable front sight, which was later re-introduced (but designed differently) on the M60E3 and M60E4 (and later barrels).

Any common M60 barrel will fit the T161, and it's rare to see one offered with the original barrel.

Many have also had their furniture and barrel latch replaced. The original furniture featured fore and aft sling swivels on the bottom (as did the original production M60). The barrel locking lever of the original production M60 was found to sometimes unlock inadvertently, and so it was ordered replaced with the current latch design. Therefore an all-original T161 with its adjustable sight barrel and early barrel locking lever is extremely rare and commands a premium.

Original production M60s also had an adjustable buffer assembly. Once removed, the user could wind it to increase or decrease spring pressure, which affected the cyclic rate.

In Vietnam some gunners purposely increased their cyclic rate, and the Army didn't like it so they introduced the newer sealed non-serviceable buffer assembly and ordered all the adjustable ones replaced/destroyed. I don't actually know, but I'm assuming the T161 used the same adjustable buffer.

Another thing to consider is that within 15 years, 2 months, and 4 days every transferable MG out there will become C&R.

Here's what appears to be a mostly original T161:

Except the barrel looks like standard M60 production (early stamped yoke) without the adjustable front sight, and I have no idea what's going on with the pistol grip.

I couldn't find a single photo of a known T161 trigger group assembly, so if they differed from production M60 assemblies, I'd like to know how. Anyone have some info?

E3 is a good system, too...

Maremont shown.

Bob at US Ord great gent to work with - Saco Defense recertified by US Ord / Desert Ord in Pa. on a form 4 I have had it since the 80's just back around Christmas.

Don't get more of a cherry than this - $75k as pictured.. or add for configs, you can shoot this in my back yard.

No tire kickers..



My youngest years ago with another Saco I sold years ago.

My dream gun

Motivation for your transferable M60 search
Def one of the more interesting beltfeds...

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Hubba hubba!  That's the 60 that I'd like to own - the lighter and handy E3 version.  Plus the Rambo tie in - just need to find a place where I can shoot it from the hip, and blast out the last 25 rounds from the belt with the barrel pointed up.

Are you trying to sell this in a tech forum?

PIG... thats all i would buy

@GrayHeaven777

SAR ran a 6-part series on the M60.  It is reprinted here.

Long but excellent reading.

Hmm reading through this wealth of information here, it seems I’ll need to keep an eye out for a RIA registered receiver channel M60 that I can send out for the E6 package and rebuild. Any idea how much those can cost?

And is it possible to swap back and forth between E6 and E1 configuration? I read prolonged usage of the E1 configuration especially from prone can wear out the reunion due to its design. I’ve also got a M16A1 I like to shoot in vintage form but also with modern day uppers so I like to mix things up after a while.

It's not "E1" it's just original M60 and yes, it's easy to swap the component parts around and reconfigure between M60 and M60E6 with the exception of the hanger assembly for the ammo pouch, since E4 and later is bolted directly to the receiver, and the rear sight (since the E3 and later have a round rear "peep" sight) and it's not super easy to swap that.

That's what the author of that 6-part article said, but I think he's way too concerned about that.

It isn't a big deal with the E3 and later variants anyway, because their bipod isn't on the barrel and therefore they're exerting more pressure (in prone) on the gas tube, so it should start to shift (and crack its welds etc.) before any appreciable wear is exerted on the barrel socket in the trunnion.

Back when the original M60 was fielded by the military during Vietnam, they called for (upgraded) reinforced welding around the gas tube and receiver sheetmetal-to-trunnion interface (fillet welds) to reinforce these areas against developing such problems. (Some rivets were welded around too, I think.)

The only guns that wouldn't have had those updates applied would be early T series guns that didn't remain in military service (as well as potentially any civilian Form 1 or Form 2 builds, if the builder wasn't following the latest receiver build guidance).

In any case, your receiver can have reinforcement welding applied if it doesn't have that now, and if any shifting develops in the gas tube, you'll (extremely) likely be able to observe it, and take appropriate corrective action (more welding).

Most people won't notice an E3 top cover and rear peep sight on a "Vietnam" configured gun, but you'll have to add the receiver's carry handle to achieve moderate authenticity.

Of course it's nothing to swap barrel assemblies.

For the really detail-oriented -  technically the E6 uses a different trunnion (no carry handle hole).  Not a significant issue obviously...

So, you can get to 95% on an E6 from any other variant, but that is one part that is non-trivial to change (and not possible for reg trunnion guns).

Mill it away if you don't want it?

Appreciate the clarification guys! I’ll have to keep my eyes peeled for a M60 then. Hoping to find one around $40k.

@GrayHeaven777, where in Texas are you located?