I'm posting this to help anyone else shopping for body armor to actually get what they are paying for, and maybe even to save a life.  Think that's an overstatement?  Go ahead and torch me in the replies.

TLDR: Spartan has a level IV plate listed as a "10x12 stand alone" multi-hit ceramic plate, SKU: SAS-IVMH.  This is a rebranded RMA 8x10 ceramic plate with a 1" polymer rim taking it to 10x12, model 1189.  That means the 1" rim is probably only level IIIa.

An answered question on the Spartan listing has their customer service stating it is an RMA plate, and in the product pictures the Spartan spec label has "Model: 1189".

As to censoring reviews,  I made a 1-star review on the Spartan plate with this information, and it was deleted shortly afterwards with no explanation.  As of this post, there are no 1-star reviews on any Spartan plate.  I wouldn't be surprised if Spartan is deleting every 1-star review or any review that points out negative information about their plates.  This is beyond dishonest, I think it's putting lives in danger by selling a product intended to save lives that doesn't actually meet the description!  There are plenty of other level IV ceramic plates out there that are actually level IV material out to the rim.  It was Spartan deleting my review that prompted me to post this here.

Let me know if I'm wrong, I'll edit this thread to make it right.  As is, I have no confidence in any product that Spartan sells now.  I took screen shots of all of this, in case someone with Spartan sees this thread and tries to cover it up.  Maybe they could chime in here and let us all know how they justify selling an 8x10 plate as a 10x12.  Even RMA makes it clear the model 1189 is a 10x12 with only 8x10 level IV ceramic coverage.

If you really think there is safety issue with the product you should contact the National Institute of Justice. Not sure if that sort of labeling is an issue with NIJ 0101.06. Might be an FTC issue.

I have a set of 10x12 and 6x6 level 3+ in spall coating as well as trauma pads from spartan. No issues with mine. Back of each plate is marked with the shelf life and warranty durations. No issues with mine. But I’ve never been shot with them either. If they are deleting reviews that’s not good. But I’m happy with mine.

You're right about reporting it.  Seemed to me though that it was more important to get this posted, so at least people know what they are buying, but as soon as it was out there that Spartan could just change the listing and remove any supporting evidence for an FTC complaint.  Then in 6 months when the FTC checks out my complaint the evidence would be gone.

I took screen shots and saved the page as an html file, but that likely wouldn't hold up to an evidentiary standard in any administrative or judicial punitive action.

FYI, RMA is planning on an 1189 gen 2 with full edge to edge ceramic. Much like the model 1199 gen2

Do they have a eta on the product drop?

The NIJ actually allows this. Tricky/Shady/"Save Weight" sure, but RMA/SAS is not the first to do this. the NIJ's min edge shot distance is 2". Many other manufacturers do this, and it's one of the reasons I try to open plates after testing to see how much the strike face extends to the edge. The edge coverage would be the PE backer, and at most thicknesses would still be equal to III, but it would not stop an AP threat.

ARFCOM made a deal out of it to RMA years ago, and that's why RMA's website now lists that it has a reduced strike face. As Cory mentions they are working on a GEN 2 that's full coverage..

Do you know if the Hesco L210 has a reduced strike face?

Most plate testing only ensures a stop if the round is more than 1 inch from the edge...

Disregard, I can’t read.

I would like to know this as well.

I honestly don't know. I would imagine based on it's rating and weight, it would have a full edge to edge strike face. I am working to try to get an L210, and a 3810

It may be an industry wide deal.  Was just looking at the LAPG plates I have and it says right in the description:

https://lapolicegear.com/la-police-gear-level-iv-ballistic-armor-plate.html


"1 in. Partial Foam Edge"

That really makes it a 9X11 but I'd think you also want that little bit of foam incase you drop it.

Pretty much most of the import plates have a substantial foam ring. Having like an 1/8" one to me is more than acceptable

It's 1 inch from all edges, which means each dimension in a 10x12 plate is reduced by 2 inches to 8x10, as there are two edges along each dimension.

There are a lot of ceramic plates on the market that have full ceramic coverage.  So while it may not be unheard of for ceramic plates to have a foam rim, it is not standard, and the SAS listing is still leaving this information out while the OEM has it in their listing.  Compare the SAS listing and RMA listings at the beginning of the thread.

The LAPG III has a 1/2" reduced face from what I can feel (So 1" total taking both sides). It has an edge ring in addition to the "fill in space ring". From the ceramic to the seam (which I think is where the PE ends) is 1/2". Then the edge ring is like 1/4" - you can push it in a good bit. Tried to eliminate picture angle but there's still some - doesn't hit the 2" mark, even with the angle - ceramic is at the 1" mark.

Good catch on my maths..I just checked and It's a solid inch of foam all the way around too...that's pretty lame.  That's a huge reduction in strike face area....

I found this posted by someone on another site. It looks like a quoted email from Hesco:

" Thanks for reaching out to Hesco Armor.  We have conducted some preliminary testing of the L210 with the M855A1.  It was successful defeating three rounds in the testing that we did.  All of the rounds impacted the plate at 3050 fps (+/- 50 fps).  The L210 uses a monolithic ceramic and has edge-to-edge protection.  We are planning on more testing to confirm the initial results."

Nice! 3050 is likely a 20" barrel or thereabouts. Good to know it's edge to edge. I have 2 samples coming in about 8 weeks.

This might imply something about whether the 3810 stops M855A1 at similar or slightly lower velocities. Looking forward to the video when you eventually get your hands on a 3810.

Hesco uses 3050 fps as their velocity threshold for M855A1 on their published graph of threat ratings. So obviously if they don't claim a plate as stopping M855A1, then it must need to be going slower than that to be stopped (at least reliably and consistently).

I made a thread about transparency in the armor game awhile back...it quickly fell to the bottom because the f'ing ABSURD rate that every lazy ass basement warrior is starting "hur dur plate question here" threads.

The information is all over the place at a confusing and misleading level. It would be wonderful if one of the folks that hangs around this sub forum would post something that could be sticky'd.

Most of us know RMA makes stuff for spartan and that they were making stuff for ar500armor. The Great Tyler says this is no longer the case but who knows. I personally believe RMA to be a truthful company. I was told ar500armor was making the metal plates for RMA. I do not have current information on RMA metal or ar500armor non-metal (poly or ceramic). Most of us also know that many hoplite plates are made by LTC.

The rebranding is so out of control and frankly I'm disgusted by many companies taking advantage of this uptick interest and equally disgusted and dumbfounded at the lack of response from gun owners, enthusiasts and shootists. If gun companies were doing this we'd have the industry in a complete uproar. Why are we not shining light on the disinformation in the armor game?!?! Why are people supporting LYING companies that are selling life-n-death products?!!? We need to demand INTEGRITY from these companies. Yes, companies reading this, that means ethically and morally you should outright say "Brand X makes our ceramic armor and Brand Z makes our metal armor in specific cuts we request." If that means your company sells less because people like me want to buy from the actual manufacturer, well F**K you and your scam business model. The claims of "our armor stands up to NIJ standards" is totally unethical as well and is borderline illegal. We should not be handing these companies loads of money out of ignorant desperation to fill our plate carriers with something, anything.

Will the armor gurus and genies please pow wow and get something sticky'd up here so we dont keep getting 10 new "what plates are better" threads a day. Before someone says "why dont you do it," well its because I'm super busy in another industry and don't have the time to do a PHD write up on this stuff. I know that whoever is into the armor industry hardcore and would take the time to do a solid "start here" plate thread would be a hero to this board's readers. I know I'm not the only person who's sick of plate threads daily.

Awhile back I tried to get a summary on plate carriers not really knowing how much f'ing gear is out there now, only to realize I had some soul searching and re-evaluating to do while dusting off my CIRAS vests. I took a serious chunk of time to research and modify my setups and when it came to armor, I ended up with RMA ceramics and poly. I also have some various steel stuff I acquired which I wouldn't trust against m193 or m855 without testing, but I bought that stuff solely for the purpose of shooting it and seeing whats up. The problem with metal plates (especially) is we don't know where the metal comes. We don't really even know what "made in the usa" means right now...

Buy CERTIFIED plates that are on "THE LIST"

Armor companies will not have accurate information alot of the times, the customer service reps are often being lied to themselves. I have personally been straight up lied to by "managers" or higher-ups by 3 different armor companies and misinformed by many others. Even the "GOV/LE" reps don't always have the full scoop. In the guns and armor industries, you can be talking to just some ex cop or fire extinguisher salesman whos now working sales because divorce or whatever and they've never even been to the factory where the product you are asking about is made.

Somebody please start a thread with some basic facts or a running list of rebranders, etc so the new armor buyers (and the old) can start to wrap minds around what is happening with armor companies.

2nd OMG you're buying the wrong armor thread in a couple hours.

Thanks for your concern. File the report and prove it, or go shill somewhere else.

The stickied threads are typically very outdated and not kept up to speed.  It is more effective to do some basic research, and then post a thread to either confirm, deny, or enlighten a position.  It doesn’t bother me when people post a “looking for armor” thread.  It brings out great information every time regarding new products, retailers, and prices.