So let me get this straight, 41F - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So let me get this straight, 41F (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/24/2018 7:38:05 PM EDT

So I need to do two sperate 41Fs for a SBR and Suppressor. The SBR gets a Form 1 and suppressor gets a Form 4?

Is there anyway to put them both on the same 41F?

Posted: 5/24/2018 7:48:54 PM EDT

[#1]

A form 1 is to make your own SBR, Silencer, etc
A form 4 is to transfer a commercial made NFA device through a licensed dealer.

ETA:
Everything gets its own set of paperwork

Posted: 5/24/2018 7:49:32 PM EDT

[#2]

Form 1 is if you make it your self.
Form 4 is if you buy it from a dealer.

Yes, separate paperwork for each.

Posted: 5/24/2018 8:33:10 PM EDT

[#3]

So I'm going to get a stripped spikes lower and turn it into a SBR. So I would buy it like normal then fill out a form 4 and send it in? Then build it when I get it back?

Posted: 5/24/2018 8:39:27 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
So I'm going to get a stripped spikes lower and turn it into a SBR. So I would buy it like normal then fill out a form 4 and send it in? Then build it when I get it back?

View Quote

Form 1 if you are going to make it yourself.

Posted: 5/24/2018 8:46:55 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
So I'm going to get a stripped spikes lower and turn it into a SBR. So I would buy it like normal then fill out a form 4 and send it in? Then build it when I get it back?

View Quote

If you are doing the build, you have to file F1 to do the build.

If a SOT will do the build, then they will file a F1 & then you will have to fill out a F4 to transfer & take possession.

All the forms must be filed, approved by, & received back from ATF before you can initiate anything.

Posted: 5/25/2018 3:32:34 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

If you are doing the build, you have to file F1 to do the build.

If a SOT will do the build, then they will file a F1 & then you will have to fill out a F4 to transfer & take possession.

All the forms must be filed, approved by, & received back from ATF before you can initiate anything.

View Quote

So you're saying I can't even buy a stripped lower before getting my paperwork approved?

Would attaching a complete lower and complete upper constitute as a "self build"?

Can "you" put a pistol tube on it while building it, then switch it to a rifle stock after you get form back?

Posted: 5/25/2018 5:21:31 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

So you're saying I can't even buy a stripped lower before getting my paperwork approved?

Would attaching a complete lower and complete upper constitute as a "self build"?

Can "you" put a pistol tube on it while building it, then switch it to a rifle stock after you get form back?

View Quote

Go out to a shop and buy a lower receiver. Once you have it, file the form 1 with the ATF. While you are waiting to get the approved form 1 returned, build it as a pistol so that you can shoot it and test it. At some point, either before the form 1 is returned or right after, you will need to get the lower engraved with your information.

As for two separate forms, yes, two sets will be required (5320.4/5320.1, fingerprint cards, passport pictures, and responsible party questionnaire if applicable). One set will be sent in with the form 4 from the dealer. The second set will be mailed in by you when you submit the form 1 paperwork.

Posted: 5/25/2018 8:05:01 PM EDT

[#8]

41f is an ATF final ruling.

You can buy a stripped lower. You can build the stripped lower, you just can't slap an SBR upper on it, unless you build it as a pistol first.

Posted: 5/25/2018 8:15:27 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

If you are doing the build, you have to file F1 to do the build.

If a SOT will do the build, then they will file a F1 & then you will have to fill out a F4 to transfer & take possession.

All the forms must be filed, approved by, & received back from ATF before you can initiate anything.

View Quote

If your SOT is filing Form 1’s on items they manufactured, please never go back there.

Posted: 5/26/2018 11:21:05 AM EDT

[#10]

SOTs file Form 2 for NFA firearms they make, not Form 1.

As others said above, you can (and should) make a pistol from your stripped lower while awaiting your Form 1 SBR approval.

Posted: 5/26/2018 6:43:37 PM EDT

[#11]

Does anyone know where I can find a cheap pistol tube/stock?

Posted: 5/26/2018 6:51:26 PM EDT

[#12]

^Ebay for $14

Posted: 5/26/2018 6:53:11 PM EDT

[#13]

You could always just shitcan the paperwork and add a Tailhook brace to it, make sure you get a buffer tube that works with the tailhook though.

Posted: 5/26/2018 7:35:28 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
You could always just shitcan the paperwork and add a Tailhook brace to it, make sure you get a buffer tube that works with the tailhook though.

View Quote

That looks like the best brace I've seen. But I think I'll go ahead and get an actual SBR. Would be homosexual for me to get a can but no SBR

Posted: 5/27/2018 1:44:11 PM EDT

[#15]

You can also use a regular carbine receiver extension for your pistol, then just add the stock when your F1 comes back approved.

Posted: 5/27/2018 9:56:15 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
You can also use a regular carbine receiver extension for your pistol, then just add the stock when your F1 comes back approved.

View Quote

Creepy, I was just coming here to ask this.

So I just attach a normal 6position tube and then add a stock when my F1 comes back?

Posted: 5/27/2018 10:55:43 PM EDT

[#17]

Exactly.
Just don't be driving around with an M4 stock that has nowhere else to fit. As long as you have a legal use for every part in your possession (including being a spare/duplicate part to a rifle) then you're good.

Posted: 5/27/2018 11:12:50 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Exactly.
Just don't be driving around with an M4 stock that has nowhere else to fit. As long as you have a legal use for every part in your possession (including being a spare/duplicate part to a rifle) then you're good.

View Quote

Unless you're the unlucky sob when the cops decide to build an illegal SBR out of your parts and lie about it on the stand.

Posted: 5/28/2018 6:35:11 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Creepy, I was just coming here to ask this.

So I just attach a normal 6position tube and then add a stock when my F1 comes back?

View Quote

One thing a lot of people do is use a regular tube and then wrap it in paracord until F1 comes back. Doesn't make it any less/more legal, but definitely gives it a different appearance for the uninformed.

Posted: 7/23/2018 9:34:13 PM EDT

[#20]

So when filling out the paperwork do i put spikes as the maker since they made the lower or myself since im building and putting the stock on?

Posted: 7/23/2018 10:26:49 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
So when filling out the paperwork do i put spikes as the maker since they made the lower or myself since im building and putting the stock on?

View Quote

4a? It's the original manufacturer. For an existing firearm with a serial number, it's the company that made it. If it's an 80% lower, it's you.
So, if you're using a Spike's lower, that's what goes there. And for location, simply provide the city/state that's engraved.

Posted: 7/30/2018 2:58:27 PM EDT

[#22]

Do I actually need someone(LEO?) to sign/finger print me on the two cards? or can I just do it myself?

Posted: 7/30/2018 4:11:41 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do I actually need someone(LEO?) to sign/finger print me on the two cards? or can I just do it myself?

View Quote

You can do them yourself.

Big_Waylon has an excellent thread with step-by-step tutorials for all the paperwork that you might find helpful:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Work-In-Progress-new-F1-F4-guide-for-41F-submissions/17-465636/

Posted: 7/30/2018 5:34:07 PM EDT

[#24]

Try and get a suppressor from a distributor that has then in stock or a place like silencer shop. Bought a can from a local guy who had to order it and get it transferred to him, it added a couple months onto the ridiculous wait time.

Two stamp rifle setups are the best.

Posted: 7/30/2018 6:00:53 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Try and get a suppressor from a distributor that has then in stock or a place like silencer shop. Bought a can from a local guy who had to order it and get it transferred to him, it added a couple months onto the ridiculous wait time.

Two stamp rifle setups are the best.

View Quote

That's exactly what I'm doing.

Posted: 7/31/2018 12:59:11 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do I actually need someone(LEO?) to sign/finger print me on the two cards? or can I just do it myself?

View Quote

As mentioned above, you can do it. Two notes:

1. Only "requirement" is the person be properly equipped. No certification/etc required.
2. The rules are different for explosives...I point that out because a lot people search for the answer and find this Q&A, which specifies "local law enforcement authority".

Posted: 7/31/2018 2:39:56 PM EDT

[#27]

And what's the deal with the "self" employee section? I assume it's there for who does the prints?

Posted: 7/31/2018 4:53:07 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
And what's the deal with the "self" employee section? I assume it's there for who does the prints?

View Quote

That FBI fingerprint card was not really originally designed for NFA purposes.

The majority of FBI background checks being done are for the purposes on employment. Like if you wanted a job where the employer wants to make sure you don't have a criminal record, you would have to undergo a voluntary FBI background check, which involves getting fingerprinted. The form was designed with this in mind so you could put your potential employer's info there and they would be sent a copy of the results of your BG check.

Since it's all the same check as far as the FBI is concerned, the ATF/NFA checks use the same form, but because of that several of the fields on the card are irrelevant for us.

Posted: 8/5/2018 1:40:16 PM EDT

[#29]

How are you securing the photos with? Since you can't use staples.

Posted: 8/5/2018 2:01:32 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
How are you securing the photos with? Since you can't use staples.

View Quote

Double sided tape?

I just sent two in and ran a strip of clear packing tape over the pics (which were printed on plain paper, not photo paper).

Posted: 8/5/2018 3:32:28 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Try and get a suppressor from a distributor that has then in stock or a place like silencer shop. Bought a can from a local guy who had to order it and get it transferred to him, it added a couple months onto the ridiculous wait time.

Two stamp rifle setups are the best.

View Quote

I order cans every week and rarely are they not in my hands within three weeks....usually less. If the silencer is actually in stock at one of my distributors, they file an electronic Form 3 that takes no more than four days, then they ship it.

Any dealer who says it takes "a couple of months" is either ordering a silencer NOT in stock or the distributor is lying to him about availability.

Posted: 8/5/2018 3:36:17 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
How are you securing the photos with? Since you can't use staples.

View Quote

Posted: 8/5/2018 4:34:53 PM EDT

[#33]

Why do people say do a pistol and then wait for the paper work and then get a stock? Thats a waist of money!

Posted: 8/5/2018 5:32:51 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
Why do people say do a pistol and then wait for the paper work and then get a stock? Thats a waist of money!

View Quote

Not if you don't waste money on a brace or other fancy accessory. Just use the bare receiver extension you'll add the stock to later. Then you have the advantage of test firing and being able to use your firearm while you wait the months for the SBR approval.

Posted: 8/5/2018 9:28:53 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not if you don't waste money on a brace or other fancy accessory. Just use the bare receiver extension you'll add the stock to later. Then you have the advantage of test firing and being able to use your firearm while you wait the months for the SBR approval.

View Quote

Or buy a pistol brace and keep moving it down the line as you build more and more SBRs.

Posted: 8/7/2018 12:03:17 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
How are you securing the photos with? Since you can't use staples.

View Quote

Is there a rule on not using staples? The instructions don't say this.

Posted: 8/9/2018 10:54:59 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Try and get a suppressor from a distributor that has then in stock or a place like silencer shop. Bought a can from a local guy who had to order it and get it transferred to him, it added a couple months onto the ridiculous wait time.

Two stamp rifle setups are the best.

View Quote

Transferring a form 3 takes about a week. A couple months? It it’s not 2016 anymore. If you do want to add a few weeks or months, buy from silencer shop.

As for pictures. I had 1 picture then I fill out the forms and then put the photo where it’s supposed to be and color copy it, rise repeat then Sign in ink.

Form my form 4s I give the dealer copies of the picture on photo paper and he tapes to the forms.

Never had one kicked back for it.

Posted: 8/24/2018 5:28:34 PM EDT

[#38]

How anal are they about fingerprints?

Ive got one that's kinda smudged

Posted: 8/24/2018 5:43:24 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
How anal are they about fingerprints?

Ive got one that's kinda smudged

View Quote

Based on what a lot of people will tell you, they don't even run them. As long as they're present, you're good. The simply pull the info off and run a NICS check.

In a discussion I was keeping track of, not a single person (most of them dealers) had ever had a form rejected or error letter sent for the quality of prints.

Posted: 8/25/2018 11:22:23 AM EDT

[#40]

Just mailed itvoff, now I wait.

Thanks BW/everyone.

I'll post a pic when/if i get approved

Posted: 10/18/2018 8:22:34 PM EDT

[#41]

So what if some engraved something different than is on the form?

Like abbreviated the first name but put the full one on the form?

Posted: 10/18/2018 8:30:19 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
So what if some engraved something different than is on the form?

Like abbreviated the first name but put the full one on the form?

View Quote

Posted: 10/18/2018 8:59:28 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

https://reelclub.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/s6.jpg

View Quote

Serious?

Posted: 10/18/2018 10:03:11 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
So what if some engraved something different than is on the form?

Like abbreviated the first name but put the full one on the form?

View Quote

40 years from now, someone you told will rat you out and they will come for you.

Posted: 10/19/2018 9:31:13 AM EDT

[#45]

Only instances I am aware of involved no engravings.

One was asked to engrave by a certain date, agreed, and was left to it.

Another was asked the same, acted like an ass, got the weapon taken; ATF engraved it for him with an electro pencil and sent back some time later.

Technically it's wrong and illegal, but that doesn't mean ATF is kicking in your door.

arfcom answer - hide your dog!

Posted: 10/19/2018 11:02:43 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
Another was asked the same, acted like an ass, got the weapon taken; ATF engraved it for him with an electro pencil and sent back some time later.

View Quote

Was that the guy at Knob Creek?

Any examples where the maker failed to engrave, but another party owns it now?

Posted: 10/21/2018 5:48:59 PM EDT

[#47]

What are the requirements for caliber engraving?

And what if i change the upper later?

Posted: 10/22/2018 1:25:12 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
What are the requirements for caliber engraving?

View Quote

It can be engraved on the barrel. The only marking that has to be on the receiver is the serial number.

Posted: 10/22/2018 10:04:24 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
Was that the guy at Knob Creek?

Any examples where the maker failed to engrave, but another party owns it now?

View Quote

Yes, I have never heard of any other examples come up

Posted: 10/22/2018 10:30:01 AM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
What are the requirements for caliber engraving?

And what if i change the upper later?

View Quote

If it is short, engrave. If not, no engrave.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So let me get this straight, 41F (Page 1 of 2)

Armory » Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us