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Posted: 9/8/2019 10:53:54 PM EDT
Just got a PVS 14, and it's amazing and all. But putting it behind my Aimpoint in the milsurp J arm picatinny mount, it's basically just worthless. The field of view is tiny, which I guess is to be expected, but beyond that the image is horrible. It's almost like there's fog on the lenses, but there's not (I checked). The PVS 14 is crystal clear on its own, as is the Aimpoint. But put the two together and it's a real cluster.

I figure I have to be doing something wrong. I mean, if it was supposed to be that terrible then why would the military even bother issuing the picatinny mounts? And why would companies like Wilcox bother making them, right?

So what are some possible things I could be doing wrong? I've messed with the focus and gain, tried backing it off from the Aimpoint a little, that sort of thing.

ETA: What's really strange is that in the daytime with the pinhole cover on I get a crystal clear image through the Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 10:56:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2019 10:56:17 PM EDT by Spikes08]
You're gonna need a strong IR Illuminator, and EOTech, and a 3x mag attachment for the 14 to have a poor man's NV setup.
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 10:58:16 PM EDT
Similar set up works fine on mine... How close is your PVS to the aimpoint? I am using an aimpoint PRO.
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 10:59:04 PM EDT
They're terrible weapon sights. They were never intended for it and only get away with it since AR's have little recoil.

-14's were meant to be used with IR lasers so you could just death dot people at close and intermediate range.
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 10:59:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2019 11:03:03 PM EDT by TheHorta]
Two things — the first is obvious, make sure your reticle is in NV mode and isn’t washing out your NOD view. Second, make sure your objective (front lens) and ocular (rear eyepiece) are both properly focused.

If your pinhole cover is giving good results, that generally means it’s a focus issue. Pinholes are hyperfocus, meaning there is infinite depth of field.

Lastly, please confirm that you’re putting the PVS behind your Aimpoint. Also, what model Aimpoint?
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 11:03:49 PM EDT
I thought PVS-14s weren’t really weapon-rated. Basically it is a “Can be done...” on something low recoil but really shouldn’t be?
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 11:07:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BDA:
Similar set up works fine on mine... How close is your PVS to the aimpoint? I am using an aimpoint PRO.
View Quote
Same here. I've tried it as close as they can get, and as far apart as they can get. Same result.
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 11:10:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheHorta:
Two things — the first is obvious, make sure your reticle is in NV mode and isn’t washing out your NOD view. Second, make sure your objective (front lens) and ocular (rear eyepiece) are both properly focused.

If your pinhole cover is giving good results, that generally means it’s a focus issue. Pinholes are hyperfocus, meaning there is infinite depth of field.

Lastly, please confirm that you’re putting the PVS behind your Aimpoint. Also, what model Aimpoint?
View Quote
lol yes, it's behind it. Although I might get better results if I put it in front.

Aimpoint PRO. And yes, definitely in NV mode. I'm really anal about that for fear of burning my pvs 14. I've tried it with the dot all the way off even.
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 11:20:46 PM EDT
I will say that it is not the perfect sight set up compared to some of the new Flir units out... but for me, I can easily see and engage men sized targets out 100+ yards. For me, thats what it is for. What are your tube specs
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 11:26:00 PM EDT
You need to adjust the diopter focus of your pvs14. In addition, the light transmission might not be that good on an Aimpoint PRO, meaning your image will be dark and difficult to make out targets. However if your pinhole cover provides good results adjusting the diopter should improve your experience. 14’s work better behind an EOTech.
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 11:28:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By westernhaikus1:
You need to adjust the diopter focus of your pvs14. In addition, the light transmission might not be that good on an Aimpoint PRO, meaning your image will be dark and difficult to make out targets. However if your pinhole cover provides good results adjusting the diopter should improve your experience. 14’s work better behind an EOTech.
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Is diopter the one in front or back? That is, objective or eyepiece?
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 11:29:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BDA:
I will say that it is not the perfect sight set up compared to some of the new Flir units out... but for me, I can easily see and engage men sized targets out 100+ yards. For me, thats what it is for. What are your tube specs
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I'm not sure. It's a gen 3 tube, Harris I think. I'll call the dealer and see if he knows.
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 1:21:16 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:

Is diopter the one in front or back? That is, objective or eyepiece?
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Back/eyepiece.
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 1:39:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2019 1:41:52 AM EDT by Bobbybananas]
Also be sure you don’t have the built in ir Illuminator on since it will reflect off the aimpoint lens and try shielding the gap between the 14 and aimpoint with your hand since external light can be reflecting as well (just to test it). I’m definitely not a fan of using a pvs14 this way. I’d just grab a $100 ir laser (ncstar oddly makes a decent green/ir unit) if budget is an issue.
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 11:26:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2019 11:28:15 AM EDT by CTM1]
No sure about the Aimpoint Pro but it was said here that the T-1 has some type of coating on the lens. Perhaps the Pro has the same coating. When I tried to use the T-1 with a 3x lens on the 14 is was terrible, without the 3x lens it was fine but as you know the picture was so tiny and the lack of magnification makes it a waste.

I switched to an Eotech with and without the 3x lens on the 14. Without the 3x lens it was fine, but the lack of magnification sucked, with the 3x lens it was good but the center dot now became like a blurred semicolon. Some defect that I was told Eotech would not fess up to.

These were pics that Vic from TNVC posted years ago.

Mum with Eotech
Attachment Attached File


Mum with Aimpoint with 3x lens
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 11:36:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2019 11:36:22 AM EDT by KitBuilder]
I use my 14 behind an old Aimpoint M2 and it doesn't have any weird coating. I use the 3x magnifier also.
Old school GG&G cantilever setup using a QD ring mounted on the PVS-14.
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 12:00:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2019 12:01:02 PM EDT by will-1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
I use my 14 behind an old Aimpoint M2 and it doesn't have any weird coating. I use the 3x magnifier also.
Old school GG&G cantilever setup using a QD ring mounted on the PVS-14.
View Quote
I’m exactly the same as this (using same Aimpoint when I rarely weapon mount). I also say to verify you’re focused correctly. It makes a huge difference if you’re off even slightly. Other than that probably lens coating. Try putting some light down range to see if it cleans it up. Personally, I only see a benefit to weapon mount it with the 3x magnifier using an illuminator. 1x use is better with a pointer/illuminator
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 12:07:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2019 2:01:10 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 12:09:20 PM EDT
I use my head mounted 14 behind my t1 with no issues. With a strong IR illuminator it works just fine.
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 4:03:01 PM EDT
Been using a PVS14 with a primary arms micro advanced sight with no issues. An IR illuminator on the gun will help. The 1.93 height mount is also MUCH easier to work with. If anyone around/behind you is using any kind of task lighting or light spill may reflect from the rear lens on the aimpoint and dim out your image.

I have an EXPS-3 as well and have had good results with that too, and it is definitely more foregiving in the eyebox plus plays better with a 3x mag - more room
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 4:52:18 PM EDT
By chance do you have a killflash/ARD on the Aimpoint? If so, that kills neuters low-light performance.
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 4:58:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2019 10:04:00 PM EDT by 6GUNZ]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fordkicksass:
By chance do you have a killflash/ARD on the Aimpoint? If so, that kills neuters low-light performance.
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It does have one. I'll take it off and see if that helps.

ETA: it was the ard. Works fine now.
Link Posted: 9/9/2019 10:58:58 PM EDT
I put a gen 2 photonis on my rifle behind a mepro and it's sicc af
Link Posted: 9/10/2019 12:39:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2019 12:40:34 PM EDT by Joe731]
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
I mean, if it was supposed to be that terrible then why would the military even bother issuing the picatinny mounts?
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Do they? Pretty sure the military just uses lasers, dedicated night scopes and clip ons.


And why would companies like Wilcox bother making them, right?
View Quote

Because people without the budget to buy those other things will buy them.
Link Posted: 9/10/2019 1:40:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joe731:

Do they? Pretty sure the military just uses lasers, dedicated night scopes and clip ons.

Because people without the budget to buy those other things will buy them.
View Quote
The standard issue PVS14 kit comes with the picatinny mount J arm adapter. And the reason the Wilcox mount was used on the Mk18 is because it allowed them to use the upgraded PVS14 weapon mount behind the M68. I can't speculate on how often that was done in real life, but it must have been used at least to some extent.
Link Posted: 9/10/2019 2:07:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2019 2:38:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
13 years ago, hard to believe since I posted these. Nothing has changed to much, EO has less body housing obstruction and better FOV that plays nice with a 14 behind it. Roof top chimney about 100 yards away with the 3x magnifier.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/19096/PICT0742-1085604.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/19096/PICT0753-1085605.jpg
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I still can't get over how many stars there are. Not to mention all the airplanes you can't see with the naked eye. The air traffic over my house is actually kind of scary. They're so dense sometimes it looks like two or three of them are going to fly into each other. I guess they're just so high up you can't normally see or hear them. Had no idea there were so many up there!
Link Posted: 9/10/2019 2:44:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2019 5:10:02 PM EDT
You'll need an Eotech or Elcan to get decent results. Light transmission through most everything jelse ust isn't enough.
Link Posted: 9/12/2019 5:22:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swimshoot:
You'll need an Eotech or Elcan to get decent results. Light transmission through most everything jelse ust isn't enough.
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The Aimpoint PRO is actually pretty good, now that I have the honeycomb filter off. Not sure why that messes with it, but boy does it ever. Like night and day.
Link Posted: 9/12/2019 7:50:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2019 9:07:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:

Yeah I used to run the comp M2 with a -14 weapon mounted behind it. Always thought it was a pretty slick setup. EOTech > everything though.

But as previously stated, having to point the gun at everything you want to see is not so bueno.

I want to try out a -14 over my non dom eye, with another 14 weapon mounted.....could be really good.....could be really bad.
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It wouldn’t work. It’s hard to explain but basically they don’t line up. The one over your eye points down and to the right. And it sticks out so far that it bumps into your sight.
Link Posted: 9/12/2019 9:22:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2019 11:03:32 AM EDT
having this sweet PRO mount is awesome. i love shooting passively.

Link Posted: 9/13/2019 11:35:19 AM EDT
When placing optics in line but with any space between, light from any direction will strike the lenses facing the air gap between the optics, and reflect to illuminate the surface of the facing device's lenses. Makes it seem milky or paints bright areas in the FOV. When I have to do this, I shade the gap. That helps.

Generally, I have good luck shooting through EOTech and my T2 with head mounted PVS. But light from behind can make this method completely unusable by lighting up the rear of the RDS and, since it is close, creating a blurred mess I can't see through at all. The light from behind turns the RDS housing into an out-of-focus object rather than allowing the housing to be ignored and the stare be concentrated on a dot of light in a clear window.
With a handgun and RDS, head-mounted illumination is near worthless for aimed shooting for these reasons - the illuminating and environmental light must originate ahead of the RDS for the RDS to seem to be a dot on target rather than making it imitate cover for the target by turning it into a huge blur of mass.
It's a one power "scope", so there are limitations to what you should reasonably expect even under the best of circumstances..

When I want magnification, I put the 3X magnifier on my PVS-14, illuminate as necessary, and use the firearm-mounted laser. That is very accurate for me and the 3X makes the exact dot location on target far easier to ascertain than under 1X. POI shift is a non-factor where the firearm mounted laser is used and the magnifier is mounted on the NVD, and this is true whether the NVD is weapon or helmet mounted, because the path of the laser to the target is unaffected.
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