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Posted: 7/25/2018 2:43:28 PM EDT
http://www.recoilweb.com/sionyx-night-vision-camera-at-outdoor-retailer-139870.html#ixzz5MCQW21iE

Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there?
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 3:46:31 PM EDT
Looks very promising for urban environments, but like the GoPro commercials that use snowboarding with its white background, I can only imagine that the video of the Sionyx people used an optimized environment.

Overall though it still looks really like a great piece of technology.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 3:55:58 PM EDT
MSRP of $799 looks like.

Would like to see how it preforms in dense forest or farmland at night with no ambient light.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 4:49:49 PM EDT
the company seems to be saying that a PVS 14 will still do better in complete darkness, but wouldn't an IR Illuminator work with this just as well with conventional night vision?
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 6:42:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2018 6:44:48 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 7:11:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mikesmith13807:
http://www.recoilweb.com/sionyx-night-vision-camera-at-outdoor-retailer-139870.html#ixzz5MCQW21iE

Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there?
View Quote
If it works, this is exactly what I've been looking for.
I replaced the tubes on the loaner pvs due to rookie mistakes and having a color digital backup that I won't be afraid to lend out would be better than the B&W view of my el cheapo digital NVG's I'm using now.
I don't care about recording or the other perks they offer, just make something that works.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 7:30:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2018 7:31:13 PM EDT by sjcshooter1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Every 2-3 years we see yet another digital camera sensor claim the NV gift of the Gods. It all started with "SuperVision"...Some had another name for it! Guess we'll have to try yet again another digi camera to see how it shakes out.
View Quote
I could say the same thing for any type of night vision coming out on the market.
What Gen are we up to now ?
Tube grades ?
Refresh rates
240, 320, 640 resolution
Pixels
30,50 or 60 hZ
Recorders
Color pallets, reticles
Lens diameters
Wifi, compass, range finder ?
I remember when the PVS 7 was the shit.
We don't need all these options, yet every 2 -3 years , there's something better coming out we need to have.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 8:21:22 PM EDT
Here is a paid review of the camera.

Link Posted: 7/25/2018 10:46:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors:
Here is a paid review of the camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox0_8hx4exc
View Quote
Eeeeeeehhhhhhhhh, tgat sorta sounded BS’ish to me.

His thermal couldn’t ID the animal but the $799 nv camera could? Not sure I buy that.

Although I’m hoping it does deliver all it promises. I’ll dump one 14 and buy two of these and have cash leftover and dump my other 14 and buy a thermal.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 11:12:48 PM EDT
interesting spec. but the battery life is only 2hrs. Can it take a external battery pack?
otherwise very interesting
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 10:35:19 AM EDT
I feel like it is going to have horrible low ambient light performance.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 12:37:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2018 12:37:35 PM EDT by 35Remington]
Originally Posted By mikesmith13807:
Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there?
View Quote
This is a duplicative thread. Post here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Has-this-one-been-done-Kickstarter-night-vision/18-488690/
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 1:38:09 PM EDT
I just talked to them.
They said it does not compete with Gen 3, but is about on par with Gen 2. It's been tested on M4 simulators into the thousands of rounds, and can apparently be used as a clip on.

I'm ordering one. They expect to ship mid-August.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 2:19:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 35Remington:

This is a duplicative thread. Post here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Has-this-one-been-done-Kickstarter-night-vision/18-488690/
View Quote
That one has already been archived.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 2:20:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:
I just talked to them.
They said it does not compete with Gen 3, but is about on par with Gen 2. It's been tested on M4 simulators into the thousands of rounds, and can apparently be used as a clip on.

I'm ordering one. They expect to ship mid-August.
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Once you add an IR Illuminator does the difference become irrelevant? As cool as 100% passive is, I know using an Illuminator is not a problem for many applications...
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 2:49:25 PM EDT
I don't think the difference is irrelevant, but my understanding and experience is that illumination levels out the field between nicer and less nice tubes. There's more than just light amplification to be concerned with.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 4:52:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Every 2-3 years we see yet another digital camera sensor claim the NV gift of the Gods. It all started with "SuperVision"...Some had another name for it! Guess we'll have to try yet again another digi camera to see how it shakes out.
View Quote
Digital is getting about on par with mid tier Gen2 with the exception of needing a little more ir illum. Weight and battery life are the big issues currently.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 5:18:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKengineer:

Digital is getting about on par with mid tier Gen2 with the exception of needing a little more ir illum. Weight and battery life are the big issues currently.
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I assume digital will make fusion with thermal much easier...?
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 8:19:43 PM EDT
I love my 14’s but I can’t wsit for digital to catch up. Digital means, eventually, cheap!
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 11:53:34 PM EDT
It would be neat if they could make a microbolometer ccd hybrid that had paired sensor pixels. Then they could digitally blend them with thermal desensitized digitally to assist the ccd or one or the other turned up to fully switch modes.
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 12:03:50 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mikesmith13807:
I assume digital will make fusion with thermal much easier...?
View Quote
THIS is what I look forward to... :)
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 12:04:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2018 12:05:19 AM EDT by wattius]
https://youtu.be/wCOGTvEDI6I

Being compared to a phone camera. From the noise it looks like it's having trouble already at those lighting conditions. Impressive for a small camera but to me it looks like gen 1 level at best in terms of low light performance.
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 12:23:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2018 12:23:45 AM EDT by 1ipschoser]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NVjunkie:

I love my 14’s but I can’t wsit for digital to catch up. Digital means, eventually, cheap!
View Quote
Which means the advantage will be gone since the technology will proliferate to every retard with a few dollars.
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 11:28:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 11:44:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wattius:
https://youtu.be/wCOGTvEDI6I

Being compared to a phone camera. From the noise it looks like it's having trouble already at those lighting conditions. Impressive for a small camera but to me it looks like gen 1 level at best in terms of low light performance.
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That's an interesting comparison and much better in terms of understanding the performance of it than what I've seen previously from them.

If there was no compression artifacts from youtube (if we had the original footage or better yet control over the cell phone camera) it'd be much better, but here's just exposure upped on the cell phone cam side so purely digital amplification:



Don't know the sensor size / specs on the Huawei, but surely the sensor is smaller and optics are slower. The Sionyx indeed does struggle quite bad and nowhere near Gen2 as you say.
Link Posted: 7/29/2018 8:13:09 AM EDT
Obviously, this video would be taken under ideal circumstances, but the black and white IR mode looks really good here: https://youtu.be/5ZufU9T7jR0

[youtube]5ZufU9T7jR0[/youtube]
Link Posted: 7/29/2018 3:40:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2018 3:42:38 PM EDT by mikesmith13807]
Link Posted: 8/5/2018 10:46:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2018 10:48:02 PM EDT by rlltd42]
Just saw a video from somebody testing this and got it in their hands yesterday. Honestly, it looks better than I thought it would but the video wasn't the best so hard to tell. Trying to to find out now if there was any IR help being used.
Link Posted: 8/6/2018 12:26:10 AM EDT
Take a look at Pulsar's digital NV.
I looked through one about a month ago and it looked pretty good at a semi-reasonable price.
I couldn't compare it side by side with a PVS14; but it could get someone into the NV game at a reasonable cost.
Link Posted: 8/7/2018 12:13:04 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Just saw a video from somebody testing this and got it in their hands yesterday. Honestly, it looks better than I thought it would but the video wasn't the best so hard to tell. Trying to to find out now if there was any IR help being used.
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Link?
Link Posted: 8/7/2018 7:22:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2018 7:38:17 PM EDT by SpyHawk]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:

Link?
View Quote
I think he's talking about these videos:

Part One

Part Two

Later on he figured out that the gain wasn't set correctly in the first video.

EDIT: On Part One, you can skip to 20 minutes to start just watching night footage with the Aurora compared to the GoPro Hero 4.
EDIT2: Go to 34 minutes on Part One to see it with a cheap IR LED illuminator.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 11:42:09 AM EDT
It seems like it's performing well above Gen1. It's also pretty clear that the video CODEC is murdering the video pretty often. I would expect the unit to have slightly better detail when viewed through the screen.

Can't wait to get mine and do a Gen3 comparison.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 12:37:05 PM EDT
Indeed looks bettern than Gen1. Not Gen2 level from what I can see - the videos so far have quite high ambient light levels due to buildings being that close. Even if it was Gen1 the distortion is very close to zero. If it was unity magnification and higher refresh rate you could start thinking of head mounting one I guess.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 1:46:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By murtis:
Indeed looks bettern than Gen1. Not Gen2 level from what I can see - the videos so far have quite high ambient light levels due to buildings being that close. Even if it was Gen1 the distortion is very close to zero. If it was unity magnification and higher refresh rate you could start thinking of head mounting one I guess.
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That's why I look forward to testing; we've got some truly dark rural areas out here. And we've got a wide selection of Gen3.
My guess is it's best in urban areas where there's a fair bit of ambient light, but we shall see.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 4:42:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:

That's why I look forward to testing; we've got some truly dark rural areas out here. And we've got a wide selection of Gen3.
My guess is it's best in urban areas where there's a fair bit of ambient light, but we shall see.
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Did they ship yours out yet?
Link Posted: 8/10/2018 11:48:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:

Did they ship yours out yet?
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Not that I'm aware of. Our company is doing a night video shoot - cars on fire, shooting, etc. I sent them an email telling them it might be good if I could get it before then, but haven't heard back. We shall see.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 12:14:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:

Not that I'm aware of. Our company is doing a night video shoot - cars on fire, shooting, etc. I sent them an email telling them it might be good if I could get it before then, but haven't heard back. We shall see.
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Keeping my fingers crossed you get it in time.

On a side note, has anybody seen anything about the auto focus?

In my mind, one of the major leaps forward we may see in digital night vision is the ability to auto focus like a smart phone or DSLR camera.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 12:26:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2018 12:29:22 PM EDT by murtis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:

In my mind, one of the major leaps forward we may see in digital night vision is the ability to auto focus like a smart phone or DSLR camera.
View Quote
My guess is it would be very distracting to have auto focus on a head mounted unit. Maybe if it really worked super good then yeah. Has also the benefit it could focus both the objective and the ocular at the same time, so the image plane is actually located where the camera is focused. Eye tracking and focusing where you look might be the most natural way.

The Sionyx is 0.5x magnification, so not head mountable anyway.

The biggest leap in digital versos analog NV I see is the possibility to augment the view. The possibilities of what you could augment it with are almost endless.

Regarding auto focus. Canon has a new dual pixel system in their newer DSLR's that basically works as a rangefinder. Each pixel sees through one half of the objective lens, so with a big lens you actually have a good separation of the left & right images and can dig out depth information pretty nicely. It is the best autofocusing system out there at the moment. It does not need to "hunt" for focus unlike almost every other system out there. With such an arrangement, or even more than 2 photodiodes per pixes, you could digitally enhance the focus without actually touching the objective lens focus.
Link Posted: Yesterday 7:11:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Yesterday 7:19:50 AM EDT by SpyHawk]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By murtis:

My guess is it would be very distracting to have auto focus on a head mounted unit. Maybe if it really worked super good then yeah. Has also the benefit it could focus both the objective and the ocular at the same time, so the image plane is actually located where the camera is focused. Eye tracking and focusing where you look might be the most natural way.

The Sionyx is 0.5x magnification, so not head mountable anyway.

The biggest leap in digital versos analog NV I see is the possibility to augment the view. The possibilities of what you could augment it with are almost endless.

Regarding auto focus. Canon has a new dual pixel system in their newer DSLR's that basically works as a rangefinder. Each pixel sees through one half of the objective lens, so with a big lens you actually have a good separation of the left & right images and can dig out depth information pretty nicely. It is the best autofocusing system out there at the moment. It does not need to "hunt" for focus unlike almost every other system out there. With such an arrangement, or even more than 2 photodiodes per pixes, you could digitally enhance the focus without actually touching the objective lens focus.
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Yeah, now that would be awesome.

EDIT: Another video review, not a tactical guy, a photographer: YouTube
Link Posted: Today 1:02:32 AM EDT
this vid looks fairly accurate, some of it is under tree cover, and is in a rural setting. I don't see any shadows, so probably not much moonlight. Not to bad for digital.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vePciUwQ3m0
Link Posted: Today 6:59:09 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1paintball:
this vid looks fairly accurate, some of it is under tree cover, and is in a rural setting. I don't see any shadows, so probably not much moonlight. Not to bad for digital.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vePciUwQ3m0
View Quote
Interesting. He notes in the comments that the video is showing compression artifacts in the darker moments, but that in real life it looks like the more clearer video segments.
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