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Posted: 7/25/2018 1:43:28 PM EST
http://www.recoilweb.com/sionyx-night-vision-camera-at-outdoor-retailer-139870.html#ixzz5MCQW21iE

Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there?
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 2:46:31 PM EST
Looks very promising for urban environments, but like the GoPro commercials that use snowboarding with its white background, I can only imagine that the video of the Sionyx people used an optimized environment.

Overall though it still looks really like a great piece of technology.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 2:55:58 PM EST
MSRP of $799 looks like.

Would like to see how it preforms in dense forest or farmland at night with no ambient light.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 3:49:49 PM EST
the company seems to be saying that a PVS 14 will still do better in complete darkness, but wouldn't an IR Illuminator work with this just as well with conventional night vision?
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 5:42:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2018 5:44:48 PM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 6:11:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By mikesmith13807:
http://www.recoilweb.com/sionyx-night-vision-camera-at-outdoor-retailer-139870.html#ixzz5MCQW21iE

Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there?
View Quote
If it works, this is exactly what I've been looking for.
I replaced the tubes on the loaner pvs due to rookie mistakes and having a color digital backup that I won't be afraid to lend out would be better than the B&W view of my el cheapo digital NVG's I'm using now.
I don't care about recording or the other perks they offer, just make something that works.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 6:30:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2018 6:31:13 PM EST by sjcshooter1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Every 2-3 years we see yet another digital camera sensor claim the NV gift of the Gods. It all started with "SuperVision"...Some had another name for it! Guess we'll have to try yet again another digi camera to see how it shakes out.
View Quote
I could say the same thing for any type of night vision coming out on the market.
What Gen are we up to now ?
Tube grades ?
Refresh rates
240, 320, 640 resolution
Pixels
30,50 or 60 hZ
Recorders
Color pallets, reticles
Lens diameters
Wifi, compass, range finder ?
I remember when the PVS 7 was the shit.
We don't need all these options, yet every 2 -3 years , there's something better coming out we need to have.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 7:21:22 PM EST
Here is a paid review of the camera.

Link Posted: 7/25/2018 9:46:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swampfoxoutdoors:
Here is a paid review of the camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox0_8hx4exc
View Quote
Eeeeeeehhhhhhhhh, tgat sorta sounded BS’ish to me.

His thermal couldn’t ID the animal but the $799 nv camera could? Not sure I buy that.

Although I’m hoping it does deliver all it promises. I’ll dump one 14 and buy two of these and have cash leftover and dump my other 14 and buy a thermal.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 10:12:48 PM EST
interesting spec. but the battery life is only 2hrs. Can it take a external battery pack?
otherwise very interesting
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 9:35:19 AM EST
I feel like it is going to have horrible low ambient light performance.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 11:37:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2018 11:37:35 AM EST by 35Remington]
Originally Posted By mikesmith13807:
Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there?
View Quote
This is a duplicative thread. Post here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Has-this-one-been-done-Kickstarter-night-vision/18-488690/
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 12:38:09 PM EST
I just talked to them.
They said it does not compete with Gen 3, but is about on par with Gen 2. It's been tested on M4 simulators into the thousands of rounds, and can apparently be used as a clip on.

I'm ordering one. They expect to ship mid-August.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 1:19:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 35Remington:

This is a duplicative thread. Post here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Has-this-one-been-done-Kickstarter-night-vision/18-488690/
View Quote
That one has already been archived.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 1:20:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:
I just talked to them.
They said it does not compete with Gen 3, but is about on par with Gen 2. It's been tested on M4 simulators into the thousands of rounds, and can apparently be used as a clip on.

I'm ordering one. They expect to ship mid-August.
View Quote
Once you add an IR Illuminator does the difference become irrelevant? As cool as 100% passive is, I know using an Illuminator is not a problem for many applications...
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 1:49:25 PM EST
I don't think the difference is irrelevant, but my understanding and experience is that illumination levels out the field between nicer and less nice tubes. There's more than just light amplification to be concerned with.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 3:52:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Every 2-3 years we see yet another digital camera sensor claim the NV gift of the Gods. It all started with "SuperVision"...Some had another name for it! Guess we'll have to try yet again another digi camera to see how it shakes out.
View Quote
Digital is getting about on par with mid tier Gen2 with the exception of needing a little more ir illum. Weight and battery life are the big issues currently.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 4:18:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKengineer:

Digital is getting about on par with mid tier Gen2 with the exception of needing a little more ir illum. Weight and battery life are the big issues currently.
View Quote
I assume digital will make fusion with thermal much easier...?
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 7:19:43 PM EST
I love my 14’s but I can’t wsit for digital to catch up. Digital means, eventually, cheap!
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 10:53:34 PM EST
It would be neat if they could make a microbolometer ccd hybrid that had paired sensor pixels. Then they could digitally blend them with thermal desensitized digitally to assist the ccd or one or the other turned up to fully switch modes.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 11:03:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mikesmith13807:
I assume digital will make fusion with thermal much easier...?
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THIS is what I look forward to... :)
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 11:04:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2018 11:05:19 PM EST by wattius]
https://youtu.be/wCOGTvEDI6I

Being compared to a phone camera. From the noise it looks like it's having trouble already at those lighting conditions. Impressive for a small camera but to me it looks like gen 1 level at best in terms of low light performance.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 11:23:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2018 11:23:45 PM EST by 1ipschoser]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NVjunkie:

I love my 14’s but I can’t wsit for digital to catch up. Digital means, eventually, cheap!
View Quote
Which means the advantage will be gone since the technology will proliferate to every retard with a few dollars.
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 10:28:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 10:44:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wattius:
https://youtu.be/wCOGTvEDI6I

Being compared to a phone camera. From the noise it looks like it's having trouble already at those lighting conditions. Impressive for a small camera but to me it looks like gen 1 level at best in terms of low light performance.
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That's an interesting comparison and much better in terms of understanding the performance of it than what I've seen previously from them.

If there was no compression artifacts from youtube (if we had the original footage or better yet control over the cell phone camera) it'd be much better, but here's just exposure upped on the cell phone cam side so purely digital amplification:



Don't know the sensor size / specs on the Huawei, but surely the sensor is smaller and optics are slower. The Sionyx indeed does struggle quite bad and nowhere near Gen2 as you say.
Link Posted: 7/29/2018 7:13:09 AM EST
Obviously, this video would be taken under ideal circumstances, but the black and white IR mode looks really good here: https://youtu.be/5ZufU9T7jR0

[youtube]5ZufU9T7jR0[/youtube]
Link Posted: 7/29/2018 2:40:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/29/2018 2:42:38 PM EST by mikesmith13807]
Link Posted: 8/5/2018 9:46:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/5/2018 9:48:02 PM EST by rlltd42]
Just saw a video from somebody testing this and got it in their hands yesterday. Honestly, it looks better than I thought it would but the video wasn't the best so hard to tell. Trying to to find out now if there was any IR help being used.
Link Posted: 8/5/2018 11:26:10 PM EST
Take a look at Pulsar's digital NV.
I looked through one about a month ago and it looked pretty good at a semi-reasonable price.
I couldn't compare it side by side with a PVS14; but it could get someone into the NV game at a reasonable cost.
Link Posted: 8/6/2018 11:13:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Just saw a video from somebody testing this and got it in their hands yesterday. Honestly, it looks better than I thought it would but the video wasn't the best so hard to tell. Trying to to find out now if there was any IR help being used.
View Quote
Link?
Link Posted: 8/7/2018 6:22:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/7/2018 6:38:17 PM EST by SpyHawk]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:

Link?
View Quote
I think he's talking about these videos:

Part One

Part Two

Later on he figured out that the gain wasn't set correctly in the first video.

EDIT: On Part One, you can skip to 20 minutes to start just watching night footage with the Aurora compared to the GoPro Hero 4.
EDIT2: Go to 34 minutes on Part One to see it with a cheap IR LED illuminator.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 10:42:09 AM EST
It seems like it's performing well above Gen1. It's also pretty clear that the video CODEC is murdering the video pretty often. I would expect the unit to have slightly better detail when viewed through the screen.

Can't wait to get mine and do a Gen3 comparison.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 11:37:05 AM EST
Indeed looks bettern than Gen1. Not Gen2 level from what I can see - the videos so far have quite high ambient light levels due to buildings being that close. Even if it was Gen1 the distortion is very close to zero. If it was unity magnification and higher refresh rate you could start thinking of head mounting one I guess.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 12:46:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By murtis:
Indeed looks bettern than Gen1. Not Gen2 level from what I can see - the videos so far have quite high ambient light levels due to buildings being that close. Even if it was Gen1 the distortion is very close to zero. If it was unity magnification and higher refresh rate you could start thinking of head mounting one I guess.
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That's why I look forward to testing; we've got some truly dark rural areas out here. And we've got a wide selection of Gen3.
My guess is it's best in urban areas where there's a fair bit of ambient light, but we shall see.
Link Posted: 8/9/2018 3:42:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:

That's why I look forward to testing; we've got some truly dark rural areas out here. And we've got a wide selection of Gen3.
My guess is it's best in urban areas where there's a fair bit of ambient light, but we shall see.
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Did they ship yours out yet?
Link Posted: 8/10/2018 10:48:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:

Did they ship yours out yet?
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Not that I'm aware of. Our company is doing a night video shoot - cars on fire, shooting, etc. I sent them an email telling them it might be good if I could get it before then, but haven't heard back. We shall see.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 11:14:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JowyBravo:

Not that I'm aware of. Our company is doing a night video shoot - cars on fire, shooting, etc. I sent them an email telling them it might be good if I could get it before then, but haven't heard back. We shall see.
View Quote
Keeping my fingers crossed you get it in time.

On a side note, has anybody seen anything about the auto focus?

In my mind, one of the major leaps forward we may see in digital night vision is the ability to auto focus like a smart phone or DSLR camera.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 11:26:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/15/2018 11:29:22 AM EST by murtis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:

In my mind, one of the major leaps forward we may see in digital night vision is the ability to auto focus like a smart phone or DSLR camera.
View Quote
My guess is it would be very distracting to have auto focus on a head mounted unit. Maybe if it really worked super good then yeah. Has also the benefit it could focus both the objective and the ocular at the same time, so the image plane is actually located where the camera is focused. Eye tracking and focusing where you look might be the most natural way.

The Sionyx is 0.5x magnification, so not head mountable anyway.

The biggest leap in digital versos analog NV I see is the possibility to augment the view. The possibilities of what you could augment it with are almost endless.

Regarding auto focus. Canon has a new dual pixel system in their newer DSLR's that basically works as a rangefinder. Each pixel sees through one half of the objective lens, so with a big lens you actually have a good separation of the left & right images and can dig out depth information pretty nicely. It is the best autofocusing system out there at the moment. It does not need to "hunt" for focus unlike almost every other system out there. With such an arrangement, or even more than 2 photodiodes per pixes, you could digitally enhance the focus without actually touching the objective lens focus.
Link Posted: 8/19/2018 6:11:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2018 6:19:50 AM EST by SpyHawk]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By murtis:

My guess is it would be very distracting to have auto focus on a head mounted unit. Maybe if it really worked super good then yeah. Has also the benefit it could focus both the objective and the ocular at the same time, so the image plane is actually located where the camera is focused. Eye tracking and focusing where you look might be the most natural way.

The Sionyx is 0.5x magnification, so not head mountable anyway.

The biggest leap in digital versos analog NV I see is the possibility to augment the view. The possibilities of what you could augment it with are almost endless.

Regarding auto focus. Canon has a new dual pixel system in their newer DSLR's that basically works as a rangefinder. Each pixel sees through one half of the objective lens, so with a big lens you actually have a good separation of the left & right images and can dig out depth information pretty nicely. It is the best autofocusing system out there at the moment. It does not need to "hunt" for focus unlike almost every other system out there. With such an arrangement, or even more than 2 photodiodes per pixes, you could digitally enhance the focus without actually touching the objective lens focus.
View Quote
Yeah, now that would be awesome.

EDIT: Another video review, not a tactical guy, a photographer: YouTube
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 12:02:32 AM EST
this vid looks fairly accurate, some of it is under tree cover, and is in a rural setting. I don't see any shadows, so probably not much moonlight. Not to bad for digital.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vePciUwQ3m0
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 5:59:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1paintball:
this vid looks fairly accurate, some of it is under tree cover, and is in a rural setting. I don't see any shadows, so probably not much moonlight. Not to bad for digital.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vePciUwQ3m0
View Quote
Interesting. He notes in the comments that the video is showing compression artifacts in the darker moments, but that in real life it looks like the more clearer video segments.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 8:35:13 AM EST
That is impressive for a "cheap" digital camera.

The video two posts up seems to be in a rural setting indeed, though the sky is quite bright. Not much stars visible which tells there is a good bit of pollution and thus light coming evenly from all sides thus not producing shadows. Anyway that's a pretty common scenario and nobody is saying this is Gen3. Seems to be able to cope alright in everywhere except starlight levels.

If it didn't have a color filter it could see roughly 3x the light it sees now. As it is sensitive to NIR that 3x applies mostly to the human visible spectrum. Probably the NIR performance would go up some too.

A few days ago I took a look at some night time photos I have taken with a regular camera and made a very rough estimate of ISO sensitivities required to achieve around Gen3 performance. I had varying pics, some with fast glass some with slower, but regardless it seems that an ISO from around 5 million to 10 million would start producing Gen3 levels of performance under starlight. I would not be surprised to be wrong by an order of magnitude, but just my 2 cents anyway.

That was based on having them equal in the sense that both would be head mountable, so the digital camera would have 120hz capture & output.

Given that Canon has expensive sensors that do 4 million ISO I would expect head mountable passive digital NV being possible in the next 5-10 years.
Link Posted: 8/20/2018 2:57:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1ipschoser:
Which means the advantage will be gone since the technology will proliferate to every retard with a few dollars.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1ipschoser:
Originally Posted By NVjunkie:

I love my 14's but I can't wsit for digital to catch up. Digital means, eventually, cheap!
Which means the advantage will be gone since the technology will proliferate to every retard with a few dollars.
You sound like those guys who dont want any new additions to the NFA because "Its not fair, muh monies and investy thingies"......
Link Posted: 8/21/2018 9:38:06 AM EST
I ordered one this morning.

I've been playing tag with the support email for a few days and was told the website info on shipping needed updating due to a shipment arriving from customs this week. Since yesterday, the shipping changed from several options like Overnight=$40 to only 2 currently. I chose FedEx Express Saver=$20 and it claims "Delivery in 3 days". Hopefully this is accurate because in my emails I told them I was going away for about 3 weeks soon, and didn't want to order before leaving and miss delivery, but I also didn't want the 10% discount to expire before I was coming back. So far all I have gotten from them is an order confirmation.

From the promo videos and the lack of over the top hype, I have a pretty good feeling about the company in general, and the product specifically. The user YouTube vids, especially the side by side GoPro comparisons certainly seem like this is a gap filler between phone/GoPro capability and dedicated night vision gear. I have 2 Gen 3 devices, and a pretty decent thermal unit, so I'm hoping I can now record as well.
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 9:10:04 PM EST
My Aurora arrived today. I won't be replacing my Gen 3 stuff but it's pretty neat so far.

Attachment Attached File

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Link Posted: 10/17/2018 9:40:10 PM EST
Looks pretty slick! Is it possible to post a couple side by side comparison photos with a gen 3 device by chance?
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 5:06:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZ2A:
Looks pretty slick! Is it possible to post a couple side by side comparison photos with a gen 3 device by chance?
View Quote
I will try again later tonight.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 6:41:10 PM EST
I've had my SiOnyx camera for a little over a month now, and am still quite impressed with it. I also have 2 ITT 6015 Gen 3 devices and although the Aurora doesn't compare to the low light capability, it has it's strong points. Basically, if you have enough ambient light to identify blobs of light & dark, you should get an image enhancement that is usable. A photo will give you more detail than the live on screen image and better night color also. I have posted some comparison pics in another thread, so review those and I'll be glad to answer any questions and try to address any tests that may be requested.

Here's the other thread.

Link with SiOnyx pics
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 7:17:39 PM EST
Just a few quick comments about the Aurora camera.

I bought 2 spare batteries with a dedicated charger on Amazon for about $15 total, and they work fine. Battery changes are quick & easy. They are a fairly common digital camera battery, model NP-50 used by Fuji, Pentax, Kodak, etc. cameras.
The menu system is pretty well arranged and there are a lot of feature options you can adjust. One pretty interesting one is the "Loop" function that is constantly recording and able to save a 30 second clip depending the point you trigger the capture. It has a setting for physical motion=recoil that can be the clip capture initiation. Probably pretty useful on a hunt having 15 seconds before and after your rifle recoil captured automatically.
The recording transfers to another device like a phone or tablet is fairly easy and foolproof. You can tag 10 pics or videos at a time to upload to the SiOnyx app, then move them from the app to your camera roll. The controls are easy to learn and understand if you play around a bit. The whole device seems well made and sturdy, and mature in it's design. One pretty neat feature I enjoy is the edge detection focus highlight. If you switch it on, you get a red highlight on straight edges where the camera is currently focused. Makes it much easier to focus in low light situations.

I have bought 3 cheap IR flashlights and they are a nice accessory for the Aurora. It doesn't take much aux. lighting to really brighten up your night.

It should be pretty obvious I'm a fan, but from what I've seen, nothing else out there comes close to filling in the gaps in NV that this device does.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 7:57:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2018 7:59:13 PM EST by mancow]
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 8:00:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2018 8:01:01 PM EST by mancow]
Being in town I can't get any really dark images but the Aurora doesn't do well in extreme darkness like has been mentioned.

I believe the PVS-7s have a 64 lp Omni IV or V in them.
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