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Posted: 5/14/2023 9:12:16 PM EDT
From what I've read, it seems the biggest contributor to 'bad triggers' on bullpups is the linkage between the trigger & hammer/sear pack.
Would it be possible to engineer a setup so the trigger still works directly to release the hammer for a better pull but the linkage goes from the hammer to firing pin?
Link Posted: 5/14/2023 9:20:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
From what I've read, it seems the biggest contributor to 'bad triggers' on bullpups is the linkage between the trigger & hammer/sear pack.
Would it be possible to engineer a setup so the trigger still works directly to release the hammer for a better pull but the linkage goes from the hammer to firing pin?
View Quote


I believe aside from possible reliability issues from light-strikes if the linkage gets dirty; the bigger issue is the lock-time goes to Hell.
Link Posted: 5/14/2023 9:31:15 PM EDT
[#2]
A striker fired bullpup?
Link Posted: 5/14/2023 10:16:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
From what I've read, it seems the biggest contributor to 'bad triggers' on bullpups is the linkage between the trigger & hammer/sear pack.
Would it be possible to engineer a setup so the trigger still works directly to release the hammer for a better pull but the linkage goes from the hammer to firing pin?
View Quote


So Far, Keltec seems to be the only one who isn't using the "Trigger Bar to a Trigger Pack" set up (hammer and Sear) as the Trigger and Sear are upfront..only a hammer bar runs to the rear.

Desert tech uses the traditional sear pack, but its pulled instead of pushed as you actuate the trigger..For me that makes it feel heavier than is should be but still does fine with my trigger pull gage.
Link Posted: 5/14/2023 10:49:08 PM EDT
[#4]
The Tavor with Super Sabra pack and Lightning Bow, and the crisp 1lb pull on the Desdt Tech HTI have shown me that bullpup manufacturers have basically solved the, "bullpups have shitty triggers" BS.

The Tavor SAR isn't really any worse than some OEM AR triggers. With SS, it feels close to an SSA. With the SS + Lightning Bow, it's closer to an SSA-E.

I have to warn people about the HTI and how light the single stage trigger is set.
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 2:09:46 AM EDT
[#5]
The challenges in designing a bullpup fire control group (FCG) are -

1) Develop a system in which the trigger is distant from the hammer/striker and/or sear which:
 a) does not introduce too many additional parts (more parts mean more contact surfaces and more friction)

 b) does not have too much mass that moves either linearly or vertically (more mass in the FCG means possible negligent discharges if/when the firearm is bumped or dropped)

 c) does not flex appreciably under tension or compression (Many OTS replacement packages use some sort of cable or flexible connection, accepting c) as the lesser of the three issues)

I have a design for a FCG which includes one additional part (one part more than the common hammer-sear-trigger) which could have a crisp trigger break while avoiding the problems of the three issues outlined above. I just don't have a clearly identified design requirement for a bullpup system which would require this.
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 8:40:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 9:57:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Now that the red trigger springs exist for the AUG I don't see that the trigger is an issue anymore, at least for the AUG. It never really was an issue for me because I just learned it and accepted that it was different from an AR trigger. With the new springs, the pull weight in line with milspec AR triggers. So what if it doesn't "feel" like a traditional trigger? You don't drive an Accord then complain that it doesn't "feel" like a Camry
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 10:14:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You don't drive an Accord then complain that it doesn't "feel" like a Camry
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The difference between and Accord and Camry would be akin to the difference between two different manufacturers AR triggers. The difference between a bullpup and traditional trigger would be more like the difference in driving feel between an Accord and a Ram 3500 4x4.
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 10:37:04 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Now that the red trigger springs exist for the AUG I don't see that the trigger is an issue anymore, at least for the AUG. It never really was an issue for me because I just learned it and accepted that it was different from an AR trigger. With the new springs, the pull weight in line with milspec AR triggers. So what if it doesn't "feel" like a traditional trigger? You don't drive an Accord then complain that it doesn't "feel" like a Camry
View Quote


Kind of.  It's no geisselle, but a 2020 sear and red trigger spring pack really does make a world of difference, and gets AUG trigger up to vary solid "not bad"
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 11:05:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Kind of.  It's no geisselle, but a 2020 sear and red trigger spring pack really does make a world of difference, and gets AUG trigger up to vary solid "not bad"
View Quote
Consider that the milspec trigger pull weight range for an M4 is 5.5-8.5lbs. Most reports I've seen for the red AUG springs w/oem trigger pack show a pull weight of around 6.5lbs. That's completely acceptable for a non-match trigger. Remember, the only reason the civilian AUG started with a heavy trigger was because it was made from the military trigger packs which have a short pull for semi-auto and a longer, heavier pull for full-auto. In making it a semi-auto only, the heavy pull became the default. I was able to get 1.1"-1.5" ten-round groups with match ammo and the original heavy trigger because I've had the gun for 20+ years and learned trigger. Will the groups get smaller with the lighter springs? I have no idea.  

the other aspect is "feel," which is completely subjective and means pretty much zero in shooting results
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 11:08:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Electronic trigger?
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 11:34:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Tavor with Super Sabra pack and Lightning Bow, and the crisp 1lb pull on the Desdt Tech HTI have shown me that bullpup manufacturers have basically solved the, "bullpups have shitty triggers" BS.

The Tavor SAR isn't really any worse than some OEM AR triggers. With SS, it feels close to an SSA. With the SS + Lightning Bow, it's closer to an SSA-E.

I have to warn people about the HTI and how light the single stage trigger is set.
View Quote


I came to post this...  SAR with Geissle components (trigger, bar and trigger pack) has an awesome trigger.


I think the real innovation would be a bullpup with an electric trigger that moves a solenoid to release a hammer in the back of the rifle.  I'm sure AFT would never let this be...
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 2:55:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I came to post this...  SAR with Geissle components (trigger, bar and trigger pack) has an awesome trigger.


I think the real innovation would be a bullpup with an electric trigger that moves a solenoid to release a hammer in the back of the rifle.  I'm sure AFT would never let this be...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Tavor with Super Sabra pack and Lightning Bow, and the crisp 1lb pull on the Desdt Tech HTI have shown me that bullpup manufacturers have basically solved the, "bullpups have shitty triggers" BS.

The Tavor SAR isn't really any worse than some OEM AR triggers. With SS, it feels close to an SSA. With the SS + Lightning Bow, it's closer to an SSA-E.

I have to warn people about the HTI and how light the single stage trigger is set.


I came to post this...  SAR with Geissle components (trigger, bar and trigger pack) has an awesome trigger.


I think the real innovation would be a bullpup with an electric trigger that moves a solenoid to release a hammer in the back of the rifle.  I'm sure AFT would never let this be...

Considering how good the Tavor + Geissele Super Sabra and Lightning trigger bow feels, I wouldn't want an electronic trigger even if it was free someone paid me. More shit to go wrong. "Hold up. CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE! Gimme a second to change the batteries in my gun. HEY! I said STOP SHOOTING AT ME! I need to swap out my trigger battery!".

And as mentioned, the Desert Tech HTI trigger is better than a LOT of rifles I've shot. Is at as good as a tuned Jewell? No, but it's as good as, or better than the triggers in a lot of bolt guns.
Link Posted: 5/15/2023 4:12:17 PM EDT
[#14]
I've had a similar line of thought but using fluid/hydraulics to link instead of a mechanical link. With different cylinders ratios you could probably get a really short movement on the trigger. Only challenge would be balancing reliability of the cylinder seals and the weight of the trigger via friction on the cylinder
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