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Posted: 7/30/2018 8:16:15 PM EDT
[#1]
So maybe Sig will make a 9” 5.56 barrel again to go with the suppressor combination. 5.5” seems to short for reliable ballistics and 11.5” would be to long with the suppressor combination I would think.
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Posted: 7/31/2018 7:48:29 PM EDT
[#2]
The contract did allow for 11.5" barrels. My guess is it is probably the 11.5" Virtus with suppressor handguard and SRD556.
Possibly some custom variant. |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 9:31:16 AM EDT
[#3]
And here it is.
Looks like a Rattler stock. 11.5" barrel. Custom handguard, suppressor, and suppressor cover. Can anybody tell if that is a Rattler or Virtus receiver? |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 9:37:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And here it is. Looks like a Rattler stock. 11.5" barrel. Custom handguard, suppressor, and suppressor cover. Can anybody tell if that is a Rattler or Virtus receiver? |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 10:53:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither. |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 11:07:30 AM EDT
[#6]
So ugly.
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Posted: 8/2/2018 12:34:59 PM EDT
[#7]
I thought this was supposed to be integrally suppressed? This thing is ugly as sin. Why not just take a Virtus upper and attach a suppressor? I don’t see anything special here.
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Posted: 8/2/2018 12:49:31 PM EDT
[#8]
From what I gather on this...there is a long, fixed muzzle brake...the can body attaches to the brake.
Larue's SUURG |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 12:55:56 PM EDT
[#9]
It sure does look similar, doesn't it?
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Posted: 8/2/2018 9:26:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It sure does look similar, doesn't it? |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 11:38:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Commercial availability....?
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Posted: 8/3/2018 1:25:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Commercial availability....? |
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Posted: 8/3/2018 7:21:10 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just get a Virtus and attach a can lol. Nothing special that I can see. Closest you can get right now looks like an 11.5" Virtus on a colt lower. Cerakote it in FS20150 elite. Find a Rattler stock someplace and cerakote that too. Then throw on a can of some kind. |
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Posted: 8/3/2018 11:14:55 AM EDT
[#14]
The upper receiver sure looks like a Virtus receiver except for maybe the dust cover which looks like polymer. I think what Coregon was referring to was the lower which is a AR style lower.
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Posted: 8/3/2018 11:58:08 AM EDT
[#15]
So the next question is what units would use this ? Will this replace mk18/cqbr's ? Will USASOC use this over short barreled URG-Is ?? or is this some NSW nonsense. Does this have potential to be vaporware/next to no use in service ? kinda of like a SCAR L issue ?
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Posted: 8/3/2018 1:36:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The upper receiver sure looks like a Virtus receiver except for maybe the dust cover which looks like polymer. I think what Coregon was referring to was the lower which is a AR style lower. |
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Posted: 8/3/2018 9:25:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the next question is what units would use this ? Will this replace mk18/cqbr's ? Will USASOC use this over short barreled URG-Is ?? or is this some NSW nonsense. Does this have potential to be vaporware/next to no use in service ? kinda of like a SCAR L issue ? |
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Posted: 8/5/2018 4:38:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And here it is. Looks like a Rattler stock. 11.5" barrel. Custom handguard, suppressor, and suppressor cover. Can anybody tell if that is a Rattler or Virtus receiver? Similarly, with the P320 Pro series there is now 6 types of sight cuts with P320 pistols. (RX, Elite exclusive RX, M17, M17 commercial, X series, Pro) |
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Posted: 8/6/2018 6:36:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is going on at Sig? Why the change? That would make 4 types in 4 years. Similarly, with the P320 Pro series there is now 6 types of sight cuts with P320 pistols. (RX, Elite exclusive RX, M17, M17 commercial, X series, Pro) RX, X Series and that one weird exclusive all have different cuts but they’re all cut for the same optic. Romeo 1. |
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Posted: 8/6/2018 9:49:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pro series, M17 and M17 commercial all have the same sight cut. Delta point footprint. RX, X Series and that one weird exclusive all have different cuts but they’re all cut for the same optic. Romeo 1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What is going on at Sig? Why the change? That would make 4 types in 4 years. Similarly, with the P320 Pro series there is now 6 types of sight cuts with P320 pistols. (RX, Elite exclusive RX, M17, M17 commercial, X series, Pro) RX, X Series and that one weird exclusive all have different cuts but they’re all cut for the same optic. Romeo 1. |
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Posted: 8/6/2018 12:45:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Stay on target, stay on target. |
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Posted: 8/6/2018 12:47:33 PM EDT
[#22]
But in a serious note. The SURG probably has Cerakote FS 20150 as the finish.
Is that the same color as the commercial Virtus FDE guns? |
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Posted: 8/6/2018 12:53:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Yowsa, Sig is really doing well with the .mil lately. http://soldiersystems.net/2018/07/29/ussocom-awards-sig-sauer-48-mil-for-suppressed-upper-receiver-group/ 
sig brace large muzzle brake the hush money is flowing now well played sig |
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Posted: 8/6/2018 1:25:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61uD7FOGOQL._SX425_.jpg Stay on target, stay on target. |
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Posted: 8/8/2018 9:26:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is going on at Sig? Why the change? That would make 4 types in 4 years. Similarly, with the P320 Pro series there is now 6 types of sight cuts with P320 pistols. (RX, Elite exclusive RX, M17, M17 commercial, X series, Pro) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And here it is. Looks like a Rattler stock. 11.5" barrel. Custom handguard, suppressor, and suppressor cover. Can anybody tell if that is a Rattler or Virtus receiver? Similarly, with the P320 Pro series there is now 6 types of sight cuts with P320 pistols. (RX, Elite exclusive RX, M17, M17 commercial, X series, Pro) |
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Posted: 8/8/2018 2:14:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Commercial availability....? 
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-suurg-kit/ |
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Posted: 8/8/2018 4:15:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryWell played, sir. Well played.
Sadly, it sounds like Larue didn't make it past the down select. We'll probably not know the others for years to come. |
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Posted: 8/9/2018 2:13:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not a change that will be seen on the commercial market - no different than the LVAW and guns used by USSOCOM are different than the commercial offerings. |
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Posted: 8/9/2018 7:40:07 AM EDT
[#29]
@coregon am I understanding correctly that LVAW, PDW, and SURG are all WARCOM and MARSOC programs? Any ideas of other folks that might be purchasing on those within SOCOM?
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Posted: 8/9/2018 9:16:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is unfortunate. They would get money from me and I imagine many others. Where is the reluctance to sell a commercial variant coming from? Would a SURG handguard at least fit on a virtus upper? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It's not a change that will be seen on the commercial market - no different than the LVAW and guns used by USSOCOM are different than the commercial offerings. 
I'm not saying that there won't be a commercial offering of a SURG-type upper/rifle. Above, you were asking about which upper/chassis the SURG product uses and I responded that it was neither a Virtus nor Rattler upper/chassis. Just like the LVAW is not an upper/chassis that has been available on the commercial market. Different projects, different contracts, different tenders, etc all call for different needs, requirements and "wish lists" from the specific units. That's one of the beautiful things about the MCX (and any of our modular systems: P320, MPX, etc), is that we can easily provide a product/configuration that is specific to a contract or fill a need for a team. So, to clarify, i'm NOT saying that there won't be a commercial variant of SURG |
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Posted: 8/9/2018 9:18:19 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@coregon am I understanding correctly that LVAW, PDW, and SURG are all WARCOM and MARSOC programs? Any ideas of other folks that might be purchasing on those within SOCOM? |
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Posted: 8/9/2018 11:09:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, we're not allowed to comment directly on the contracts and/or specific units that we work with. I can say that every facet of USSOCOM (and many other T1 groups in MIL, FED, LE and worldwide) has an MCX variant at their disposal. |
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Posted: 8/9/2018 11:21:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The widespread acceptance of the MCX is really making me want to invest more into the platform. The 556 was built for 12 years and no one wanted it. The MCX is in massive demand that puts all their other lines to shame. |
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Posted: 8/9/2018 11:23:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The widespread acceptance of the MCX is really making me want to invest more into the platform. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So, we're not allowed to comment directly on the contracts and/or specific units that we work with. I can say that every facet of USSOCOM (and many other T1 groups in MIL, FED, LE and worldwide) has an MCX variant at their disposal. |
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Posted: 8/9/2018 12:48:19 PM EDT
[#35]
It's one of the first "innovative" designs to make traction in the post AWB world. And by make traction, I mean kick everything else's ass. The compatibility parts with the AR are fantastic, though I wish that the new carrier didn't require the new trigger.
Hopefully the aftermarket will pick up, though it's already doing well (SB Tactical, Lancer, MI, Geissele, anyone else?). I don't even know what else I'd want right now. Maybe an 80% lower. A handguard with an integrated front sight like the URX. Who knows. |
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Posted: 8/10/2018 12:05:20 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm confused by you - I could have sworn you were complaining above about (what you perceived as) a 4th "change" to MCX...now you want to give us $$$ If I didn't like Sig rifles I wouldn't spend time on a Sig sub forum. |
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Posted: 8/10/2018 4:06:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just because I see value in an item does not mean I can not see faults. If I didn't like Sig rifles I wouldn't spend time on a Sig sub forum. 
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Posted: 8/10/2018 10:06:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My comment wasn't meant viciously or to degrade, just light-hearted banter. Either way, I can't wait for more details on the SURG and I hope they will become available for purchase. |
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Posted: 8/11/2018 10:21:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm confused by you - I could have sworn you were complaining above about (what you perceived as) a 4th "change" to MCX...now you want to give us $$$
I'm not saying that there won't be a commercial offering of a SURG-type upper/rifle. Above, you were asking about which upper/chassis the SURG product uses and I responded that it was neither a Virtus nor Rattler upper/chassis. Just like the LVAW is not an upper/chassis that has been available on the commercial market. Different projects, different contracts, different tenders, etc all call for different needs, requirements and "wish lists" from the specific units. That's one of the beautiful things about the MCX (and any of our modular systems: P320, MPX, etc), is that we can easily provide a product/configuration that is specific to a contract or fill a need for a team. So, to clarify, i'm NOT saying that there won't be a commercial variant of SURG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: It's not a change that will be seen on the commercial market - no different than the LVAW and guns used by USSOCOM are different than the commercial offerings.
I'm not saying that there won't be a commercial offering of a SURG-type upper/rifle. Above, you were asking about which upper/chassis the SURG product uses and I responded that it was neither a Virtus nor Rattler upper/chassis. Just like the LVAW is not an upper/chassis that has been available on the commercial market. Different projects, different contracts, different tenders, etc all call for different needs, requirements and "wish lists" from the specific units. That's one of the beautiful things about the MCX (and any of our modular systems: P320, MPX, etc), is that we can easily provide a product/configuration that is specific to a contract or fill a need for a team. So, to clarify, i'm NOT saying that there won't be a commercial variant of SURG 
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Posted: 8/13/2018 1:42:52 AM EDT
[#40]
I guess what I don’t understand is the rationale behind not releasing these things on the commercial market. Obviously, Sig understands at some level that there is a demand there. It would seem to be more logistically challenging to have so many variations in parallel production. I mean why release the M17 in commercial variant with black controls when the people buying the M17 would obviously want it as close to the military version as possible? If you’re building a metric s**t ton for Uncle Sam, just mark some different and sell to those that want them.
Same goes with the SURG and the LVAW. How many incrimental and extra sales could be made to those who have bought the MCX by offering those uppers? I mean even Colt with all their hard headedness sold a metric ton of 6920’s based on their military sales. |
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Posted: 8/13/2018 2:19:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess what I don’t understand is the rationale behind not releasing these things on the commercial market. Obviously, Sig understands at some level that there is a demand there. It would seem to be more logistically challenging to have so many variations in parallel production. I mean why release the M17 in commercial variant with black controls when the people buying the M17 would obviously want it as close to the military version as possible? If you’re building a metric s**t ton for Uncle Sam, just mark some different and sell to those that want them. Same goes with the SURG and the LVAW. How many incrimental and extra sales could be made to those who have bought the MCX by offering those uppers? I mean even Colt with all their hard headedness sold a metric ton of 6920’s based on their military sales. |
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Posted: 8/13/2018 3:41:11 AM EDT
[#42]
So the kits will include a Buffer tube adapter for the sig butt stocks and a lower receiver adapter to run the MCX receiver on standard AR15 lowers? Or will the uppers be manufactured with compatibility to drop righ on current issued lower receivers?
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Posted: 8/13/2018 6:57:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the kits will include a Buffer tube adapter for the sig butt stocks and a lower receiver adapter to run the MCX receiver on standard AR15 lowers? Or will the uppers be manufactured with compatibility to drop righ on current issued lower receivers? |
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Posted: 8/13/2018 7:19:40 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So this is never happening? http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Screen-Shot-2018-01-19-at-5.00.03-PM-750x513.png |
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Posted: 8/13/2018 9:17:11 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The two pieces you mentioned are in fact just one piece. If you look at the photo, the coyote tan block at the rear of the M4A1 lower receiver is the lower receiver adapter and sig 1913 stock rail all in one unit. And yes, it will be required and included with the kit. Can that adapter be bought currently? ETA: this is it? https://www.sigsauer.com/store/mcx-stock-adapter.html |
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Posted: 8/13/2018 9:32:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess what I don’t understand is the rationale behind not releasing these things on the commercial market. Obviously, Sig understands at some level that there is a demand there. It would seem to be more logistically challenging to have so many variations in parallel production. I mean why release the M17 in commercial variant with black controls when the people buying the M17 would obviously want it as close to the military version as possible? If you’re building a metric s**t ton for Uncle Sam, just mark some different and sell to those that want them. Same goes with the SURG and the LVAW. How many incrimental and extra sales could be made to those who have bought the MCX by offering those uppers? I mean even Colt with all their hard headedness sold a metric ton of 6920’s based on their military sales. On the M17 - the pistols that the .mil is receiving DO have black controls. The M17 commemorative model has the FDE controls (as the MHS contract was originally represented and awarded), however, DOD has since determined that tan controls are unnecessary and delivered M17/18 will all have black controls. The very first pistols delivered to the 101st all had tan controls, but beyond those, all black controls. So, if people truly want to “clone” the M17/18, they’ll want black controls. SUR300 Upper is still a thing, but there has been little demand for it (outside of a few in this thread). Certain aspects of LVAW and other rifles you see being used by USSOCOM have had improvements made to them, thus represented in the commcercial offerings. |
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Posted: 8/13/2018 10:16:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, I’m not saying these things won’t be available on the commercial market - also understand, that we can’t release something like SURG, LVAW, etc on the commercial side until the DOD/.gov/whoever makes a decision to implement it. If these contracts mean we can produce units on the commcercial side of the house, we definitely will. On the M17 - the pistols that the .mil is receiving DO have black controls. The M17 commemorative model has the FDE controls (as the MHS contract was originally represented and awarded), however, DOD has since determined that tan controls are unnecessary and delivered M17/18 will all have black controls. The very first pistols delivered to the 101st all had tan controls, but beyond those, all black controls. So, if people truly want to “clone” the M17/18, they’ll want black controls. SUR300 Upper is still a thing, but there has been little demand for it (outside of a few in this thread). Certain aspects of LVAW and other rifles you see being used by USSOCOM have had improvements made to them, thus represented in the commcercial offerings. I spoke with a guy on P&S who seems SIG connected. He insisted the cuts were exactly the same, if you ignore the 2mm difference that requires modification to the optic or slide on the Romeo cut to fit a DPP. 
He said there was still discussion on whether the plates would be the M17 cut or X-Series cuts. I'll be pissed if when I get my M17 Commercial I have to tool on my side or optic for it to fit the DPP. |
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Posted: 8/13/2018 3:37:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, I’m not saying these things won’t be available on the commercial market - also understand, that we can’t release something like SURG, LVAW, etc on the commercial side until the DOD/.gov/whoever makes a decision to implement it. If these contracts mean we can produce units on the commcercial side of the house, we definitely will. On the M17 - the pistols that the .mil is receiving DO have black controls. The M17 commemorative model has the FDE controls (as the MHS contract was originally represented and awarded), however, DOD has since determined that tan controls are unnecessary and delivered M17/18 will all have black controls. The very first pistols delivered to the 101st all had tan controls, but beyond those, all black controls. So, if people truly want to “clone” the M17/18, they’ll want black controls. SUR300 Upper is still a thing, but there has been little demand for it (outside of a few in this thread). Certain aspects of LVAW and other rifles you see being used by USSOCOM have had improvements made to them, thus represented in the commcercial offerings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess what I don’t understand is the rationale behind not releasing these things on the commercial market. Obviously, Sig understands at some level that there is a demand there. It would seem to be more logistically challenging to have so many variations in parallel production. I mean why release the M17 in commercial variant with black controls when the people buying the M17 would obviously want it as close to the military version as possible? If you’re building a metric s**t ton for Uncle Sam, just mark some different and sell to those that want them. Same goes with the SURG and the LVAW. How many incrimental and extra sales could be made to those who have bought the MCX by offering those uppers? I mean even Colt with all their hard headedness sold a metric ton of 6920’s based on their military sales. On the M17 - the pistols that the .mil is receiving DO have black controls. The M17 commemorative model has the FDE controls (as the MHS contract was originally represented and awarded), however, DOD has since determined that tan controls are unnecessary and delivered M17/18 will all have black controls. The very first pistols delivered to the 101st all had tan controls, but beyond those, all black controls. So, if people truly want to “clone” the M17/18, they’ll want black controls. SUR300 Upper is still a thing, but there has been little demand for it (outside of a few in this thread). Certain aspects of LVAW and other rifles you see being used by USSOCOM have had improvements made to them, thus represented in the commcercial offerings. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 8:21:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the M17, can you find out if SIG will be using the Romeo cut or the DPP cut on the commercial gun. I spoke with a guy on P&S who seems SIG connected. He insisted the cuts were exactly the same, if you ignore the 2mm difference that requires modification to the optic or slide on the Romeo cut to fit a DPP.
He said there was still discussion on whether the plates would be the M17 cut or X-Series cuts. I'll be pissed if when I get my M17 Commercial I have to tool on my side or optic for it to fit the DPP. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 8:22:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What dealers stock it or is it an on-demand type order from SIG dealers? Also, any chance on it coming as a complete rifle? |
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