User Panel
Posted: 4/7/2022 7:17:50 PM EDT
Well as the title alludes to I finally got to try the new Rugged Razor 556. Shot it against a YHM Turbo T2 (my benchmark 556 can) and a Deadair Nomad 30 (my benchmark overall rifle can).. First, a caviot.. all shooting was done at indoor range, so hard to completely judge but I had it to myself and was able to shoot without a muff to get a honest feel at least the best I could indoors... Host was a 11" Cz Bren 2 that's got the HBI suppressor port in the adjustable piston.
So How'd it do? Pretty good honestly. Comparing the 556Rzr to the turbo was pretty clear the turbo is quieter, but it's far more gassy than the rzr.. Noticeable when I did a mag dump. Both were acceptable and remember i was at indoor range.. Both sounded better then my nomad (love the nomad, it's just not a dedicated 556 can and this is a tuned rifle).. I shot it with and without the FH endcap and didn't notice flash either way but ill be testing this outside in the dark in the future... Comparing the turbo to the rzr, the turbo is lighter with Xeno (my perfered mount) but heavier with the stock yhm mount.. Definitely a pro that the turbo has the 1.375x24 threads but I don't Hate the rugged mount. It's alright... As far as build quality it's impeccable. Rugged makes their cans so smooth and the welds were perfect (pipe welder by trade). My turbo is kinda sloppy comparred to it in terms of build quality..So in conclusion I'm happy with it. I bought it to mainly live on my bren 2 sbr in 556 and it performed up to my realistic expectations. Not the quietest 556 can but for the price, warranty, and absolute bomb proof durablity I think it's gonna make a nice addition to my stamp collection. If your in the market for a bomb proof 556 can and plan on dedicating it to 1 or a few rifles due to the mount, I'd reccommend it. |
|
Good write up. I’d like to test one compared to my gemtech trek2. So far that’s the quietest 5.56 can I have heard. More quiet then my turbo. And when dead air releases theirs it might be finally beat.
|
|
Quoted: OP, how would you describe the gas blowback vs the Nomad? View Quote Gun was a tuned piston so gas blowback isn't a big deal. Only noticeable when you mag dump due to the lack of airflow at the indoor range.. I didn't mag dump the nomad but I know it's very good on that host. The rugged was on par. The turbo was the only one that got gassy after a mag dump. I'd like to note though, outside I haven't found this to be a big deal. |
|
Thanks for the first hand insight. Eagerly waiting to certify my form 4 once the form 3 is approved.
|
|
Quoted: Well as the title alludes to I finally got to try the new Rugged Razor 556. Shot it against a YHM Turbo T2 (my benchmark 556 can) and a Deadair Nomad 30 (my benchmark overall rifle can).. First, a caviot.. all shooting was done at indoor range, so hard to completely judge but I had it to myself and was able to shoot without a muff to get a honest feel at least the best I could indoors... Host was a 11" Cz Bren 2 that's got the HBI suppressor port in the adjustable piston. So How'd it do? Pretty good honestly. Comparing the 556Rzr to the turbo was pretty clear the turbo is quieter, but it's far more gassy than the rzr.. Noticeable when I did a mag dump. Both were acceptable and remember i was at indoor range.. Both sounded better then my nomad (love the nomad, it's just not a dedicated 556 can and this is a tuned rifle).. I shot it with and without the FH endcap and didn't notice flash either way but ill be testing this outside in the dark in the future... Comparing the turbo to the rzr, the turbo is lighter with Xeno (my perfered mount) but heavier with the stock yhm mount.. Definitely a pro that the turbo has the 1.375x24 threads but I don't Hate the rugged mount. It's alright... As far as build quality it's impeccable. Rugged makes their cans so smooth and the welds were perfect (pipe welder by trade). My turbo is kinda sloppy comparred to it in terms of build quality..So in conclusion I'm happy with it. I bought it to mainly live on my bren 2 sbr in 556 and it performed up to my realistic expectations. Not the quietest 556 can but for the price, warranty, and absolute bomb proof durablity I think it's gonna make a nice addition to my stamp collection. If your in the market for a bomb proof 556 can and plan on dedicating it to 1 or a few rifles due to the mount, I'd reccommend it. View Quote Very good write-up, thanks for sharing. Am considering this vs. the Dead Air 556 can when it gets released. |
|
|
Glad to see someone with first hand experience. I've been lookin hard at both the Razor 556 and the Turbo T2. This would likely be a dedicated can on an 11.5 sbr with an adjustable gas block. If you could only pick one, which would it be and why? Not super concerned about mounts, mainly looking at quiet and enjoyable to shoot. I was almost sold on the Razor, but started seeing people mentioning that is was basically just a 762 razor with new end cap.
|
|
Thanks for the write up! I’m considering a Razor 556 as a dedicated can on a 7.5” 556. I have a Micro30 I can swap between the 556 and a 300 BLK, but I think a dedicated 556 can is in my future.
|
|
|
Nice job OP and consider yourself lucky to be able to do mag dumps /rapid fire there. Every place by me that I've gone to shoot at doesn't allow it and will kick/ban your ass if you do. Wish l owned my own private range...
|
|
OP, do you have a gas gun to compare the Turbo and Razor? I have shot two different Turbos and didn't like the gas on Vtac wall, etc. Bought the Razor (jail, pending AFT approval) based on reduced gas claims (partly).
Ironically, looking at the Nomad L for bolt gun use. (Edit: Good summary btw!) |
|
Quoted: So How'd it do? Pretty good honestly. Comparing the 556Rzr to the turbo was pretty clear the turbo is quieter, but it's far more gassy than the rzr.. Noticeable when I did a mag dump. Both were acceptable . View Quote Interesting. Nice write-up. I would have expected more from the Razor. I do admit, the dedicated mount takes away from the appeal. I feel the same way about Q. |
|
I see a dedicated mount as one less thing to go wrong. Of course if the mount itself has an issue, 1.375 makes it replaceable, but that's assuming the incidence of mount issues is higher than the incidence of 1.375 loosening, which I'm not sure is the case. I don't have a lot of time running cans on the 1.375 mount to know if it's never going to loosen during use. The built in mounts typically can't loosen. Ours are all literally machined in, so there is no way to loosen our built in mounts.
|
|
Quoted: I see a dedicated mount as one less thing to go wrong. Of course if the mount itself has an issue, 1.375 makes it replaceable, but that's assuming the incidence of mount issues is higher than the incidence of 1.375 loosening, which I'm not sure is the case. I don't have a lot of time running cans on the 1.375 mount to know if it's never going to loosen during use. The built in mounts typically can't loosen. Ours are all literally machined in, so there is no way to loosen our built in mounts. View Quote This is half the reason the Razor 556 is still the front runner for my first can choice coming up soon, and the reason the Recce 5 is dead in the water. I plan on leaving the can on 100% of the time dedicating it to one rifle, and the idea that it could come loose while firing is a nonstarter. The Sierra 5 is hanging on by a thread and only because of the Keymo option, which of course still leaves potential for the adapter coming loose and adds weight and complexity over the Xeno option. As far as mounting options go, the Razor seems to be the clear winner as an all worlds solution between these three. Simplicity and light weight/low complexity like the GA single taper, lack of an adapter in between like the Xeno S5, tapers shielding the threads on both sides with a built in postitive retention locking ring. |
|
Quoted: This is half the reason the Razor 556 is still the front runner for my first can choice coming up soon, and the reason the Recce 5 is dead in the water. I plan on leaving the can on 100% of the time dedicating it to one rifle, and the idea that it could come loose while firing is a nonstarter. View Quote |
|
Quoted: This doesn't make sense. The Recce5 has the mount machined in. It's not even welded on, so it can't even break at the weld. It can't come loose. The Razor uses a 1.375x24 HUB mount which could in theory back off from the suppressor body since there's no taper on HUB mounting. View Quote And taper mounts don't come loose, unless you want them off. I've never had one come loose shooting and never had one carbon locked on. The only "problems" I've ever had have been with adapters. Most times the plan A stays on the taper mount and the silencer comes off. Not ready to rocksett the mount to the can just yet. No problems, ever, with built in taper mounts. |
|
Quoted: This doesn't make sense. The Recce5 has the mount machined in. It's not even welded on, so it can't even break at the weld. It can't come loose. The Razor uses a 1.375x24 HUB mount which could in theory back off from the suppressor body since there's no taper on HUB mounting. View Quote Pretty sure it does not, it's a standard Rugged dual taper mount built into the can. This has been one of the criticism's from HUB fans; they were hoping for a HUB compatible offering from Rugged. The single taper on the Recce is bomb proof and has no moving parts. |
|
|
I’ve never had a GA taper mount come loose, to be honest I’ve never really had that issue with any modern mounting solution on the market.
I think the Rugged Razor 5.56 will be a great can for the right users, but the poster several posts above is doing himself a disservice by not considering the Recce 5 more seriously. These suppressors (and the Delta 5) can probably handle similar firing schedules to the Razor 5.56, though probably the Rugged can makes more sense on a belt fed if that’s a use case for anyone. Frankly I’m pretty sure the Recce 5 is going to meter better than the Razor 5.56, and I would be shocked if the Sierra 5 doesn’t. For hard use cans, I really don’t think there is a loser among the three. |
|
Quoted: This is half the reason the Razor 556 is still the front runner for my first can choice coming up soon, and the reason the Recce 5 is dead in the water. I plan on leaving the can on 100% of the time dedicating it to one rifle, and the idea that it could come loose while firing is a nonstarter. The Sierra 5 is hanging on by a thread and only because of the Keymo option, which of course still leaves potential for the adapter coming loose and adds weight and complexity over the Xeno option. As far as mounting options go, the Razor seems to be the clear winner as an all worlds solution between these three. Simplicity and light weight/low complexity like the GA single taper, lack of an adapter in between like the Xeno S5, tapers shielding the threads on both sides with a built in postitive retention locking ring. View Quote I haven’t ever had a recce 5 come loose while firing. If you semi-permanently installed one, it might be very difficult to remove after a lot of shooting on many different days. Typically I remove cans after shooting and lubricate the taper mount suppressor ID threads and taper with lock cease 20/20. We are showing the Dual Lok 5.56 suppressor at NRA in like a week. Thats 11.8 ounces and has a splined locking mount. It would kind of seem pointless to use it to not remove the silencer from the mount though, as mounts like that are a bit heavier for the complexity of locking devices intended to be used periodically. The 1.375 Explorr can be used with a dual lok mount and that weighs like 12.3 ounces if the 1.375 is preferred. |
|
Quoted: We are showing the Dual Lok 5.56 suppressor at NRA in like a week. Thats 11.8 ounces and has a splined locking mount. It would kind of seem pointless to use it to not remove the silencer from the mount though, as mounts like that are a bit heavier for the complexity of locking devices intended to be used periodically. View Quote Is it quieter than the recce 5? |
|
|
For my purpose of dedicating it to a rifle and only ever removing it to clean, having the ability to lock the can onto the mount is something I'm not willing to compromise on. As also pointed out, the GA taper mount can also become carbon locked to the mount if not removed, cleaned and regreased often. In my mind that's a double negative, no ability to positively lock it on the rifle, and all the ability it has to stay put works against it making it difficult to remove.
As for HUB, again maybe this is just me but I weigh the lack of an adapter inbetween the silencer and muzzle device much higher than being 'locked into Rugged' for a proprietary mount, considering it will live on one rifle and I like the mounting system. It just seems to me (as a current NFA outsider looking in) that the Razor is really kind of best of both worlds in the sense that it has a locking ring built in, and a taper on both sides of the thread protecting them from carbon while it's on. Locked on when you want, and off when you don't. I know lot's of owners here love their R5's, and many are skeptical about the performance of the Razor. I've been weighing my options carefully and trying to make the best choice for what's important to me. My expectations are well tempered for performance, made easy by simple virtue that full power 5.56 in a DI semi will never be quiet, and I am perfectly ok with sacrificing ultimate suppression to get all the those other qualities. To me, 50% is the physical qualities (construction, materials, fit/finish, design) the other 50% is how it all actually attaches to the rifle which is everything above. Then there is the x-factor which is Rugged themselves as a company, their warranty and their ability and desire to stand behind their work. For me, and what I value, the Razor is winning on all fronts. |
|
Quoted: For my purpose of dedicating it to a rifle and only ever removing it to clean, having the ability to lock the can onto the mount is something I'm not willing to compromise on. As also pointed out, the GA taper mount can also become carbon locked to the mount if not removed, cleaned and regreased often. In my mind that's a double negative, no ability to positively lock it on the rifle, and all the ability it has to stay put works against it making it difficult to remove. As for HUB, again maybe this is just me but I weigh the lack of an adapter inbetween the silencer and muzzle device much higher than being 'locked into Rugged' for a proprietary mount, considering it will live on one rifle and I like the mounting system. It just seems to me (as a current NFA outsider looking in) that the Razor is really kind of best of both worlds in the sense that it has a locking ring built in, and a taper on both sides of the thread protecting them from carbon while it's on. Locked on when you want, and off when you don't. I know lot's of owners here love their R5's, and many are skeptical about the performance of the Razor. I've been weighing my options carefully and trying to make the best choice for what's important to me. My expectations are well tempered for performance, made easy by simple virtue that full power 5.56 in a DI semi will never be quiet, and I am perfectly ok with sacrificing ultimate suppression to get all the those other qualities. To me, 50% is the physical qualities (construction, materials, fit/finish, design) the other 50% is how it all actually attaches to the rifle which is everything above. Then there is the x-factor which is Rugged themselves as a company, their warranty and their ability and desire to stand behind their work. For me, and what I value, the Razor is winning on all fronts. View Quote I didn't say the can is more likely to be stuck. I simply talked about simple routine maintenance. There is no can that can be mounted long term (through many range sessions) and not have some carbon binding possibility. Carbon binding is not permanent, but it does make it tougher to remove the can. The can is a high pressure and high temperature environment with a vapor deposition of copper and lead, which are soldering elements. A person could lie to you, but it's not going to change that reality that the atmosphere and conditions won't be changing with the mounting system design. I ran an M4-2000 for ~5 days of military testing once for the Army something like 200 rounds a day, and I removed the can daily but didn't clean the mount and I got it stuck- copper brazed the mount to the suppressor during maybe the third 200 round session. The copper built on the inside rear of the suppressor and deposition built down to the muzzle device and they fused together. That was on a 10" 5.56 SCAR. These things don't happen very often but they can happen which is why a little maintenance is important in mitigating issues. I haven't locked a taper mount, but then I haven't left one mounted for 5 or 6 range trips either, so I haven't tried intentionally to lock one. I have fired them hundreds of rounds on machine guns many times without locking one. There are also reasons to remove a can after a range session, like condensation which can occur, which can increase the risk of bore corrosion, or the desire to punch cleaning patches without risk of losing them inside the baffling of the suppressor. Cleaning and lubricating the mount of any suppressor system would require removing the suppressor. The corrosion can be mitigated with a shot of aerosol lubricant, so there are some work arounds, but those are realities of working with suppressor systems. An A2 compensator is a good example. If you try to pull one off a rifle that has fired thousands of rounds, sometimes it requires a lot of torque, and maybe some torch heat to pull the comp off the barrel. Sometimes it pops free with a snapping sound at a high level of torque. That's a carbon lock on a muzzle device that isn't even in a suppressor. |
|
Quoted: I didn't say the can is more likely to be stuck. I simply talked about simple routine maintenance. There is no can that can be mounted long term (through many range sessions) and not have some carbon binding possibility. Carbon binding is not permanent, but it does make it tougher to remove the can. The can is a high pressure and high temperature environment with a vapor deposition of copper and lead, which are soldering elements. A person could lie to you, but it's not going to change that reality that the atmosphere and conditions won't be changing with the mounting system design. These things don't happen very often but they can happen which is why a little maintenance is important in mitigating issues. There are also reasons to remove a can after a range session, like condensation which can occur, which can increase the risk of bore corrosion, or the desire to punch cleaning patches without risk of losing them inside the baffling of the suppressor. Cleaning and lubricating the mount of any suppressor system would require removing the suppressor. The corrosion can be mitigated with a shot of aerosol lubricant, so there are some work arounds, but those are realities of working with suppressor systems. View Quote Fair point and good info there, and I'm a little old school in the sense that I clean my guns after I shoot them. Once I have a silencer that would apply to the muzzle device and the internal mount aswell. I'm actually planning on ordering a jar of lok cease from you. I know it's listed as having 2000f heat tolerance but what actually happens when it gets hot? Does it dry out and leave some sort of lubricating solids or after a ~200 round range trip will it still be like a cream? What about after say a month or two of it sitting on a clean rifle without being shot? |
|
Quoted: For my purpose of dedicating it to a rifle and only ever removing it to clean, having the ability to lock the can onto the mount is something I'm not willing to compromise on. As also pointed out, the GA taper mount can also become carbon locked to the mount if not removed, cleaned and regreased often. In my mind that's a double negative, no ability to positively lock it on the rifle, and all the ability it has to stay put works against it making it difficult to remove. As for HUB, again maybe this is just me but I weigh the lack of an adapter inbetween the silencer and muzzle device much higher than being 'locked into Rugged' for a proprietary mount, considering it will live on one rifle and I like the mounting system. It just seems to me (as a current NFA outsider looking in) that the Razor is really kind of best of both worlds in the sense that it has a locking ring built in, and a taper on both sides of the thread protecting them from carbon while it's on. Locked on when you want, and off when you don't. I know lot's of owners here love their R5's, and many are skeptical about the performance of the Razor. I've been weighing my options carefully and trying to make the best choice for what's important to me. My expectations are well tempered for performance, made easy by simple virtue that full power 5.56 in a DI semi will never be quiet, and I am perfectly ok with sacrificing ultimate suppression to get all the those other qualities. To me, 50% is the physical qualities (construction, materials, fit/finish, design) the other 50% is how it all actually attaches to the rifle which is everything above. Then there is the x-factor which is Rugged themselves as a company, their warranty and their ability and desire to stand behind their work. For me, and what I value, the Razor is winning on all fronts. View Quote |
|
|
Quoted: The Explorr 224 sounds similar to my ears, and the weight trade off if worth it IMO. View Quote I was just wondering if Green0 was talking about a new suppressor to go with their new mounting option or if that will just be an option on their current existing suppressors. I can wait for a Griffin thread on it though, I'm sure there will be one soon. |
|
Quoted: Agreed. I have one in jail right now. I was just wondering if Green0 was talking about a new suppressor to go with their new mounting option or if that will just be an option on their current existing suppressors. I can wait for a Griffin thread on it though, I'm sure there will be one soon. View Quote Dual Lok interfaces in 1.375 are available to fit the Explorr 1.375 Utility mount version, and the interface will be available built in to a suppressor of a new model we're planning to show at NRA next week. |
|
Quoted: Dual Lok interfaces in 1.375 are available to fit the Explorr 1.375 Utility mount version, and the interface will be available built in to a suppressor of a new model we're planning to show at NRA next week. View Quote |
|
Quoted: Dual Lok interfaces in 1.375 are available to fit the Explorr 1.375 Utility mount version, and the interface will be available built in to a suppressor of a new model we're planning to show at NRA next week. View Quote Cool! Thanks for the info. I look forward to hearing about what you've got coming. |
|
Quoted: I just noticed the Dual Lock stuff on your website. I can’t say I feel I need it over your normal taper mount system, but it looks like a good solid setup for people who want it. View Quote It was designed for show me customers, and for contracts that might ask for a redundant locking system. We add that to the gate lok system in our lines, but I think it has a place for certain customers. I'm happy with the Dual Lok suppressors, they kind of push the envelope for performance in that category of locking mount product. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.