User Panel
Posted: 2/3/2018 10:28:46 PM EDT
|
|
[#1]
Yes I wouldn’t want to be on the other end of that hallway with you shooting your shockwave down it. People who talk trash have never used them.
|
|
[#2]
If you've got the 12 ga, I would suggest low recoil LE loads. If 20 ga, 2&3/4". No 1 buck in both instances.
|
|
[#3]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_sqSTg2v8
Blast, excessive blast grab and: "KEEP the gun away from your face!" "KEEP your hand in that strap!" 70 ' is far far for 8 pellets spreading fast out of 14" barrel Great Video; great gun you need to be able to have technique down cold, in the dark, both hands, no ear protection. I have the 500 Moss. 18" barrel, love it, but 75 ft is the max for me with #1 or 00. Good luck with the Shockwave you are going to get. |
|
[#4]
Quoted:
I have a 9mm pistol on my nightstand, and I have a a shockwave. I’ve read here that it isn’t the best home defense weapon. But nobody says why. My hall from my room to the kitchen is about 70 feet, 00 buck would be pretty close to perfect in this case I would think. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/175733/15FB8A6B-D4A9-48E2-A365-81E51AE1A8C3-440727.jpg View Quote I'd make sure you pattern the loads at 15, 30, 45, 60, 75 feet so you know how quickly your pattern spreads out. Regarding the idea that the Shockwave isn't as great for home defense, I think those comments you have read are comparing the shockwave to a full stock short tactical shotgun. I think in general once in a fight a full stock shotgun is better but it doesn't mean the shockwave is horrible either. The nitch of the shockwave is it fits in tiny places and has disproportionate firepower compared to its size. I'd probably use plated 00 but the number of projectiles in 16 pellet #1 buck would make it tempting as well. I would take the shockwave with any buckshot over 9mm though, it isn't even a close call to me. There will be those that disagree with me, but if someone is ever kicking your door in at 3am you will feel good knowing the brutal destruction that 00 will do to them if they get inside. |
|
[#5]
|
|
[#6]
70 feet? That's a long assed hallway! I got one specifically for home defense. Our house has an addition on it adding a whole new (top)floor. The addition makes things awkward at best for clearing from the top down. My rifles and my 590 were all too long to manuever because of the low ceiling over the stairs combined with the railing. I figured I was stuck using a pistol til the Shockwave came out. As far as I'm concerned it's perfect for my house.
|
|
[#7]
At 70 feet maximum length, the Federal low recoil shot cups would be less than filling the upper torso of an upright adult. It is tight but I have seen an rare flyer in patterning. Other buffer-only loads would cover a greater area, best care of 50% in the torso and the rest in walls, ceiling, etc. each gun patterns differently, so really urge you test this out.
I have tried the home clearing with a Shockwave. The Shockwaves pretty much only work with a weapon-mounted flashlight. I could not figure out another method holding a flashlight. Shockwaves are also less than optimal for one handed use in opening doors and such. The stocked shotgun has an advantage there. That said, the Shockwave as a striking device is a pretty awesome tool. |
|
[#8]
I bought the short model “had to special order” 590A1 for that role. I have a long hallway too almost 90 feet.
I need to adjust the ghost rings for windage next range trip. I chose the Federal flite control 15 pellet #1 buck load. It patterns beautifully at 30 yards with a cylinder bore choke. I think about 8” if I remember right To me a full short stock tactical shotgun with a short barrel would be better than a shockwave..... |
|
[#9]
Quoted:
I bought the short model “had to special order” 590A1 for that role. I have a long hallway too almost 90 feet. I need to adjust the ghost rings for windage next range trip. I chose the Federal flite control 15 pellet #1 buck load. It patterns beautifully at 30 yards with a cylinder bore choke. I think about 8” if I remember right To me a full short stock tactical shotgun with a short barrel would be better than a shockwave..... View Quote |
|
[#10]
The myth (derived from fact) is that short bbl shotguns open up more than full-bbl shotguns. Insofar that is true is b/c folks would saw off the end of the bbl w/ the choke. Now you have a cylinder bore shotgun. The patterns open up quite a bit if you sawed off full chokes.
Have a Shockwave bbl threaded for choke tubes, throw in a full or Turkey extra full, it will throw as tight a spread as any other shotgun w/ that tube. |
|
[#11]
Putting a laser on it seems like a gimmick but it makes aiming it so much easier when you don't have to have it punched out in front of your face. I can make easy hits at 25 yards with slugs since I put it on.
|
|
[#12]
Thanks for all y’alls replys! The hall after looking isn’t 70 ft. but I do have a light for it and I feel that I can hold my own .
|
|
[#13]
Quoted:
Putting a laser on it seems like a gimmick but it makes aiming it so much easier when you don't have to have it punched out in front of your face. I can make easy hits at 25 yards with slugs since I put it on. View Quote The laser adds options, and options are good. |
|
[#14]
|
|
[#15]
Quoted:
Seems a red dot on them would work very well as well. View Quote |
|
[#16]
Quoted:
I have a 9mm pistol on my nightstand, and I have a a shockwave. I’ve read here that it isn’t the best home defense weapon. But nobody says why. My hall from my room to the kitchen is about 70 feet, 00 buck would be pretty close to perfect in this case I would think. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/175733/15FB8A6B-D4A9-48E2-A365-81E51AE1A8C3-440727.jpg View Quote 75ft = 25yds, which happens to be the distance I do all my pattern testing at. My place is long and narrow and I do in fact have 25yds from end to end. But that's up against my bedroom wall, down the hall all the way to the railing on the deck. Not a likely scenario. But, by practicing at 25yds I get a good idea of what my ammo is doing. The best of the bunch from a recent ammo test is the Federal Premium 00 9-pellet low recoil with flite control. Fired from both my 870s at 3" stickers. just inside a 10" pattern each Now, I'm doing this with two shoulder fired 18" shotguns. When I practice the Rob Haught push+pull technique with the stock resting against the side of my bicep, for maximum reduction in length, I find it much more difficult to aim at 25yds. But I wouldn't be employing the technique at that distance. Never having fired a shockwave type setup I have no idea how I'd handle it, but in watching people fire buckshot out if it, the recoil looks to still exist, so I'd have to avoid the urge to hold it up to eye level and get whacked in the face. As much as I want the novelty of a short barreled shotgun, I can't picture the scenario where'd I'd rather have it over my regular 870s, or a handgun with a wml for that matter. |
|
[#17]
Quoted:
I have a 9mm pistol on my nightstand, and I have a a shockwave. I’ve read here that it isn’t the best home defense weapon. But nobody says why. My hall from my room to the kitchen is about 70 feet, 00 buck would be pretty close to perfect in this case I would think. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/175733/15FB8A6B-D4A9-48E2-A365-81E51AE1A8C3-440727.jpg View Quote This is not to say that it cannot be used effectively. I think that the Shockwave is an excellent application for a visible laser. One of the green Crimson Trace units can be very effective if trained with properly. It's the whole "if trained with properly" thing that tends to get in the way. If you have good technique the shockwave style guns won't beat you up. Most people do not know how to run the gun properly so they won't find shooting these to be particularly enjoyable...certainly not enough to train with them. I'm in the process of acquiring a Mossberg shockwave as we speak because A.) I can get one stupid cheap through a hookup B.) Since I teach shotgun it's going to come up. I plan to equip mine with an XS replacement sight and then I'm going to play with a laser to see what I can really do with it. I would likely have no problem using the gun for home defense if I had to. In fact, one of the attractions to having the Shockwave is that I can have a snub-nosed 12 gauge that will fit in a suitcase when I travel. Great for those occasions when I'm in a hotel room or in my grandmother's terrible neighborhood filled with felons. But...and this is a big but...I'm good with a shotgun. I've spent a lot of time learning to use one in a defensive context and I have solid technique. Since I'm better than the average bear with a scattergun I can take the performance hit of losing the stock and still be effective at the kind of distances such a thing is going to be used. That may not be the case for everyone else. So the answer comes down to this: Sure, you can use it IF you train with it. Or IF you already have a significant level of training on running the shotgun properly. If it's your first foray into using a shotgun as a home defense weapon it's probably not the right solution for you. Shotguns are the most lethally damaging weapon available to us. To get something more destructive on a per-shot basis than a proper load of buckshot at close range we have to start talking about ordnance. ...but shotguns aren't magic. We have to actually hit a dude in something important for all that power to do us any good. It's considerably more difficult to do that without a stock on the shotgun. |
|
[#18]
Quoted:
I doubt it wouuld work as well as the laser. The red dot would still require you to hold it out in front of your face. The laser lets you accurately shoot from the hip. The 25 yard shots that are so easy to make with slugs were from the hip. It allows me to keep the gun close in taking full advantage of it's short length. I do realize the laser works two ways but it really makes a big difference for getting that stubby bastard on target. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems a red dot on them would work very well as well. |
|
[#19]
Quoted:
I doubt it wouuld work as well as the laser. The red dot would still require you to hold it out in front of your face. The laser lets you accurately shoot from the hip. The 25 yard shots that are so easy to make with slugs were from the hip. It allows me to keep the gun close in taking full advantage of it's short length. I do realize the laser works two ways but it really makes a big difference for getting that stubby bastard on target. View Quote |
|
[#20]
The Pistol Grip Only Shotgun - The Perfect Home Defense Tool? I own one as a range toy. It truly needs a stamp and a stock for home defense. |
|
[#21]
Quoted: A shockwave is never going to be as easy to get on target or use in rapid fashion as a shotgun with a proper stock. This is not to say that it cannot be used effectively. I think that the Shockwave is an excellent application for a visible laser. One of the green Crimson Trace units can be very effective if trained with properly. It's the whole "if trained with properly" thing that tends to get in the way. If you have good technique the shockwave style guns won't beat you up. Most people do not know how to run the gun properly so they won't find shooting these to be particularly enjoyable...certainly not enough to train with them. I'm in the process of acquiring a Mossberg shockwave as we speak because A.) I can get one stupid cheap through a hookup B.) Since I teach shotgun it's going to come up. I plan to equip mine with an XS replacement sight and then I'm going to play with a laser to see what I can really do with it. I would likely have no problem using the gun for home defense if I had to. In fact, one of the attractions to having the Shockwave is that I can have a snub-nosed 12 gauge that will fit in a suitcase when I travel. Great for those occasions when I'm in a hotel room or in my grandmother's terrible neighborhood filled with felons. But...and this is a big but...I'm good with a shotgun. I've spent a lot of time learning to use one in a defensive context and I have solid technique. Since I'm better than the average bear with a scattergun I can take the performance hit of losing the stock and still be effective at the kind of distances such a thing is going to be used. That may not be the case for everyone else. So the answer comes down to this: Sure, you can use it IF you train with it. Or IF you already have a significant level of training on running the shotgun properly. If it's your first foray into using a shotgun as a home defense weapon it's probably not the right solution for you. Shotguns are the most lethally damaging weapon available to us. To get something more destructive on a per-shot basis than a proper load of buckshot at close range we have to start talking about ordnance. ...but shotguns aren't magic. We have to actually hit a dude in something important for all that power to do us any good. It's considerably more difficult to do that without a stock on the shotgun. View Quote I want a shockwave, and I will buy one. I'm not going to use it for HD for me, because I have a young son. So I need to open doors, move things, maybe grab him, and I can do all that while holding an SBR in one hand. But as a hole up and watch weapon? awesome. 18" shotguns with no choke and no flight control spread (on average) about an inch a yard. so in my house I don't have more than 10 yards in any one direction, so a COM should put almost all pellets on target. A 00 buck pellet is about 38 caliber, and moves about as fast as a 9mm round. so if I was to hit COM with a good load of 00 it's the ballistic equivalent of hitting a guy with every single round in my carry shield 9mm at the same time. We all agree 9mm is sufficient, I'm at a loss why bigger stuff is no good. |
|
[#22]
To be completely honest, I wore out the original battery playing with the damn thing. However it wasn't a wasted battery. The more I played with it the easier it was getting to be on target when the laser turned on. Also if I have to point the gun in some strange direction where I can't eyeball it to aim it correctly the laser will still show me where that buck is going to go.
|
|
[#23]
The laser is hard to see outside unless you're in the shade or it is really cloudy. So I went to the range on a cloudy day and shot the shit out of the plate rack as fast as I could pump with the Shockwave. It is my honest opinion that getting a good laser is the single most useful and fun upgrade that can be put on a Shockwave/Tac-14.
ETA: And making the bird's head grippier. |
|
[#24]
I picked up my Shockwave as a range toy. However, several hundred rds later and it's now my go-to bedroom gun w/a 9mm backup (btw, all handguns are relatively poor 'stoppers' regardless of caliber or bullet used).
My household ranges aren't anywhere near that long so I opted for the S&B #1 Buck load, pattern is appx 15"@20yds. I was surprised how manageable recoil is when using proper technique. Tomac Attached File |
|
[#25]
While you CAN employ a Shockwave-style gun in home defense, there are just so many BETTER options out there.
and I really like my home built Shockwave (Raptor grip on a Mossberg PGO before it was a factory offering) and my Rem.TAC-14. They are fun guns and I am getting pretty good at hitting targets without a traditional sight picture. There are also some definite advantages in a close quarters environment wielding it as a weapon like that. Still, my AR is my goto weapon for things that go bump in the night. In every category the home defense rifle cartridge carbine beats a shotgun of any type. |
|
[#27]
The General Discussion "Cool Kids" have determined that shotguns are completely useless for home defense.
End of story. |
|
[#28]
Quoted:
@sixnine What kind of laser are you using? Any pics? View Quote |
|
[#30]
|
|
[#32]
Quoted:
Yep, literally worst weapon possible I have been told. And dont forget, harder to double tap the bad guy too! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
[#33]
That looks like the way to go. How is it on your thumb?
|
|
[#34]
Have you tried it on multiple targets?
I'm really curious to see someone wring one of these out. F.A.S.T., El Pres, or a Bil drill. |
|
[#35]
Anyone using a light on one? Curious on what the best set up would be.
|
|
[#36]
|
|
[#37]
Quoted:
Have you tried it on multiple targets? I'm really curious to see someone wring one of these out. F.A.S.T., El Pres, or a Bil drill. View Quote |
|
[#38]
|
|
[#39]
Quoted:
Anyone using a light on one? Curious on what the best set up would be. View Quote In the middle of the night w/my eyes adjusted to the dark it's more than sufficient for my needs. However, I also have a Streamlight RM-1 (140 or 350 lumens depending upon battery type used) that works just as well but isn't as low-profile. Tomac |
|
[#40]
The Shockwave is 'wieldy". As in the opposite of unwieldy.
Hickok45 is surgical with it. Federal 34 pellet 4 buck personal defense is impressive in this video. It's right after he nails two 2 liters with slugs. Shockwave with slugs then 4 buck Hickok45 |
|
[#41]
Quoted:
The Shockwave is 'wieldy". As in the opposite of unwieldy. Hickok45 is surgical with it. Federal 34 pellet 4 buck personal defense is impressive in this video. It's right after he nails two 2 liters with slugs. Shockwave with slugs then 4 buck Hickok45 View Quote |
|
[#42]
Quoted:
Anyone using a light on one? Curious on what the best set up would be. View Quote I have been looking at the SureFire integrated light/forend (linky to Amazon) set-ups but they are expensive and everyone I have ever met you worked for SureFire was a complete DICK, so that too. |
|
[#43]
Quoted:
The myth (derived from fact) is that short bbl shotguns open up more than full-bbl shotguns. Insofar that is true is b/c folks would saw off the end of the bbl w/ the choke. Now you have a cylinder bore shotgun. The patterns open up quite a bit if you sawed off full chokes. Have a Shockwave bbl threaded for choke tubes, throw in a full or Turkey extra full, it will throw as tight a spread as any other shotgun w/ that tube. View Quote Whatever you decide, you need to pattern it with a couple of loads and decide what works best for you. * No affiliation other than being satisfied with the work and the quick turn around times. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.