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Posted: 12/1/2021 2:54:44 PM EDT
Do you guys generally prefer setting up one rifle for both NV and thermal, or is it better for dedicated rifles for each purpose?

I was thinking of setting up a 12.5" AR with a Nox 35, an offset red dot for passive NV shooting, and a MAWL for active NV shooting. Ungodly expensive accessories, but would be a one and done set up. Or, generally better to set up one rifle for thermal, and one for NODs? Purpose is for fun/hog hunting/general night time shenanigans. I have a pretty simply 16" AR with red dot/light/sling for HD.

Yes I'm a noob to night time shooting. I've taken several carbine courses, but will try to take my first night time course in a few months.

Just brainstorming and would appreciate any experiences.
Link Posted: 12/1/2021 3:24:04 PM EDT
[#1]
What is the objective/use envelope for the rifle?  Hunting?  Defense?  Classes?

In my world, the objective drives the gear.  

Also, do you intend to use dedicated I2 or thermal mounted optics or are clip ons (thermal and/or I2) an option?

Weight is also a thing.  Depending on how you intend to use - static shooting position vs on the move - weight is even more important.

What ranges are you wanting to be able to shoot?

There are trade offs in everything and one-rifle-that-does-it-all results in the most trade offs.
Link Posted: 12/1/2021 3:26:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What is the objective/use envelope for the rifle?  Hunting?  Defense?  Classes?

In my world, the objective drives the gear.  

Also, do you intend to use dedicated I2 or thermal mounted optics or are clip ons (thermal and/or I2) an option?

Weight is also a thing.  Depending on how you intend to use - static shooting position vs on the move - weight is even more important.

What ranges are you wanting to be able to shoot?

There are trade offs in everything and one-rifle-that-does-it-all results in the most trade offs.
View Quote

Purpose is for fun/hog hunting/general night time shenanigans. Probably more static shooting or even supported off a tripod if we're shooting hogs. Generally short range; probably not more than 200ish yards (and that would be a long shot). The thermal would be a Nox 35.
Link Posted: 12/1/2021 3:27:14 PM EDT
[#3]
For a pure fighting fig a TWS with an offset RDS and LAM is not ideal. For 100 meters and out it'd be more suitable with PID would being paramount. Mounting a RDS at 12:00/2:00 is great in a pinch, but for unconventional shooting positions, switching shoulders and speed for CQB is not ideal.
Link Posted: 12/1/2021 6:42:07 PM EDT
[#4]
OP I actually read your post and given what your end use is I do not see anything wrong with your proposed set up as it covers all bases without being overly complex or bulky.

Last year I tried to create the ultimate close range predator gun by having it all on one gun.
I put an EoTech EXPS 3-0 on it with a PVS14 w/ a 3x PVS magnifier attached behind it on a LaRue flip mount and a thermal clip on out front on a Wilcox flip to the side mount. It was just to much. Heck I was even trying to fit a Vortex 3x magnifier in there as well.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 11:10:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP I actually read your post and given what your end use is I do not see anything wrong with your proposed set up as it covers all bases without being overly complex or bulky.

Last year I tried to create the ultimate close range predator gun by having it all on one gun.
I put an EoTech EXPS 3-0 on it with a PVS14 w/ a 3x PVS magnifier attached behind it on a LaRue flip mount and a thermal clip on out front on a Wilcox flip to the side mount. It was just to much. Heck I was even trying to fit a Vortex 3x magnifier in there as well.
View Quote


Thanks! This is the info I'm looking for! was it more the weight or the bulk that turned you off, or more just that you ended up not needing a lot of it?
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 11:41:44 AM EDT
[#6]
I'll preference this by saying I don't have thermal yet, but I think they should be separate guns. Seems like putting everything on one gun is just too much.

My go-to rifle is also my NV rifle, good 24/7.

Thermal gun would be more of a recce set up, with day scope and thermal in RTZ mounts.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 11:52:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thanks! This is the info I'm looking for! was it more the weight or the bulk that turned you off, or more just that you ended up not needing a lot of it?
View Quote


It was more the bulk but also because I did not care for the clip-on thermals I had.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 12:24:45 PM EDT
[#8]
My primary Night Time AR is a 12.5” OG AAC 300 BLK with a Thermal and a RAPTAR ES. So it is a “get both” situation. I’ve killed several animals with it. I’ve used Thermal AND IR laser for aiming purposes.

Is it heavy? Yes. The thermal I use (FLIR Zeus 50mm) is a fat pig. I stalk the woods with it. The thermal is for long shots in bigger fields and detection of stationary animals. The laser has been used when I stalk up on animals.

If I you want it all, the penalty is weight. I’d personally forgo the RDS. You can snapshot with the laser with a bit of practice.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 12:31:36 PM EDT
[#9]
I’d like to put an ACRO on top of a NOX and add a MAWL.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 12:42:15 PM EDT
[#10]
My go to rifle is set up for NV (laser, IR illum, EXPS3).  Any gun I would want to use at night has NV height optics as I find heads up shooting more comfortable.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 3:49:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 4:51:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Your proposed setup would probably be great for an overall recreational night-time rifle.

However, it is not a setup I would recommend for a general purpose / close combat rifle or duty weapon.

Thermal weapon sights tend to have some limitations in an "all around" general purpose application, so they tend to be more common in special purpose applications, whether for hunting and/or defensive/perimeter (more static) applications. This also one of the reasons clip-ons tend to be popular, so that thermal capability can be added as necessary while maintaining other capabilities for general purpose use.

Depending on what your needs, desires, and budget are, I would recommend setting up a general purpose "fighting rifle" using the MAWL and NV-compatible RDS, and then putting the NOX on a separate rifle/upper and maybe adding a less expensive IR laser as a secondary sighting device, e.g., a TOR-MINI and Vampire Scout, which will give you IR aiming laser, IR illum, and white light capabilities for under $700 on your thermal gun.

Another issue to consider is that while thermals are great for hunting since you're hunting for warm blooded animals, if you're wanting to do "general night time shenanigans," shooting at non-living things (paper, cardboard, steel) is more difficult with thermals, as you will need to find a way to ensure that the target will show up in your sights, which usually involves either warming up the target and/or using a heating element (like a hand-warmer), or relatively expensive thermal targets.

What you may find is that your "fighting / fun / night time shenanigans" setup will be best served by one rifle, while the hog hunting gun may be a more specific setup.

~Augee
View Quote


Thanks! I appreciate the input. I think you're right. I'll keep the thermal on the hog gun w/a IR laser.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 4:55:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 6:00:16 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm still a relative newbie in this game but just went through similar scenarios.  My main purpose is also hogs and predator hunting.  

I currently have a 300BO AR suppressed with IR light and laser.  I've already had a few situations where a thermal scoped rifle would of resulted in more shot opportunities so that's next on my list.

I have come to realize a buddy system is the best of both worlds short of carrying a lightweight bolt with thermal setup in addition to all the rest of your gear.

I bought a second helmet and bridge too so I can split up my thermal and NV for guys who don't have their own.

In my scenario we're walking minimum a mile in and out to hunt generally which you quickly see how that's a bad idea and less fun by yourself.   A buddy with a thermal on a rifle and ARs for up close stalking is best for us.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 8:40:44 PM EDT
[#15]
......
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 9:52:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Never mind
Link Posted: 12/3/2021 5:46:11 PM EDT
[#17]
I went 2 different set ups.

Thermal on one and then a second with a red dot and IR laser.

I think an offset red dot  would need a big offset/riser to make it useable behind a 14 or goggles.  I haven’t tried an offset mount but even a lower 1/3 standard mount is less than ideal.
Link Posted: 12/3/2021 10:29:07 PM EDT
[#18]
I have dedicated guns
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