I have a stripped QC10 Colt lower that I registered/engraved as a SBR.

Question 1) If I am wanting to sell it, can I remove it from the registry/notify the ATF? And then sell the lower as normal regular receiver? What do I do with my stamp?

I also have an SBR'd AK.

Question 2) If I want to sell that, would the person wanting to buy it do a Form 4? Once approved, they can take possession? What do I do with the old tax stamp? Do I keep a copy of their approved Form 4?

Thanks!

1) Yes. Keep the stamp for a souvenir or sell it on Ebay.

2) If you sell it as an SBR, the person buying it (in-state) and you would fill out the F4, and once the approved form came back to you (the transferror) you'd tell the buyer to come pick it up and hand them their SBR and approved Form 4 with stamp. Provided it's a paper Form 4 and not an e-Form 4 and you actually get a paper stamp. Again, you can keep your old stamp for a souvenir or sell it on Ebay.

I guess you could keep a copy of their approved Form 4, but the original goes with them. No reason for you to do so, though.

Perfect thank you!

Not in an NFA configuration it's not an SBR.

I had an interesting experience with this lately.

Thought about selling an AK SBR, looked around the internet and found that people said it was fine to convert back to pistol config and sell as a pistol. ( https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Pistol-to-SBR-to-Pistol-/17-478011/ ) Likewise that's what section 2.5 of the ATF NFA Handbook said. So, found an in-state buyer and met up at a local FFL. (CO law, has to be thru an FFL.)

FFL noticed the engraving and didn't want to do the transfer on a former NFA item without a letter from the ATF saying that it was off the registry. They said it was their company policy. My buyer stayed there to buy another pistol they had on the shelf, and I left. He contacted me later and we met at another FFL, who did the transfer without issue. Came home, sent a signed letter requesting its removal from the NFA registry under my name to [email protected], as that's what I had read previously was advised upon sale.

Next day, the ATF showed up at his house and tried to get him to sign a forfeiture letter on the AK. He gave me a heads up that he had given them my number and that they'd probably call with some questions. He said they were pushing pretty hard on the forfeiture letter, which he refused, and said they'd be back in touch with him after consulting with their counsel. (The AK was still in pistol config, as we're both NFA nerds and understand it can't go back to SBR config without him doing a form 1.)

An ATF agent called me a few hours later. He was cordial and opened with saying that it wasn't a "gotcha" and that he just wanted some information. So, I confirmed to him that the AK had started life as a pistol, that I had form 1'd it, then had converted it back to pistol and gone through an FFL for the sale. Also told him that I had sent in the removal letter right after the sale had taken place.

He seemed happy with the answers that I gave him and said that I was in the clear and had done everything right and by the book, he just had to follow up on a tip received and couldn't say more about that part.

Neither my buyer or I have heard back from the ATF since this. (About 2.5 weeks ago.) I'm still waiting on a letter from the ATF confirming that it's off the registry so that I can let him know that he can start a form 1.

By contrast I sold another former SBR to someone out of state (shipped to their FFL), and they did not report any issues.

Your first FFL called the ATF(local field office probably) and said someone is trying to sell and SBR as a pistol to another buyer without a form 4....so the ATF followed up.


Good to see once you guys pushed back a little bit and said, nope ATF man this is legal...they bowed their heads as they knew it was legal.

If you ever get a letter, it may be months. Note that the SBR doesn't actually get "removed" from the registry, as I understand it, rather the NFRTR is updated for that serial number record to indicate it's no longer in an SBR configuration.

Both have been made into SBRs.

I could convert the AK back to a pistol, but id have holes in the trunion for the stock adapter

That is my suspicion. Can't confirm it of course, but that's what the events point to.



That's good to know. I've kept in touch with both buyers and the second one is submitting a form 1 already. Figure if that gets approved, I can tell the first buyer that he's totally in the clear to submit one.

They may called the office asking for clarification not meaning to snitch you out, but legitimately asking for clarification, because they had never had this situation come up.....then the ATF probably said were gonna need to talk to this guy and it went from there.

But have they really? Drilling some holes for your pistol brace adapter doesn’t mean you’ve really sbr’d it.

With the value on a lower, the price of a stamp, and the waiting time to get one approved,  you might be better off to just stick it in the back of the gun safe until you're interested in it again.   You would be selling a lower w/ your info engraved on it.

Good to know, I'll pass it on!





Yeah, I don't know enough to ascribe a motive about it. The shop does sell NFA items (cans, SBRs) and the guy we talked to did acknowledge that reverting an SBR to pistol config does see it as a pistol in the eyes of the law, they just didn't want to do the transfer without the removal letter due to their shop policy. Ultimately I'm just glad that neither my buyer nor I have had any further hassles.

possibly true but I have no reason to touch it again.

Also its just a trust name and city. So is its not a huge deal imo.

This was my experience.

I had a MPX I've form 1.  Trust name is the make model and serial no.  I never engraved the city and sttate. never got around to it.  So sue me.  Tax was paid.

Fast forward to Nov last year, kinda fed up with it.  Wanted to sell it, figuring that selling as a SBR would be a pain in the ass and take forever.
Having heard that all I need to do is revert back to pistol, maybe take it off registry, I decided to call ATF NFA line and ask.  The woman I spoke to was helpful.  She said as long as I physically had done so, I could sell as a pistol but the info will still be in NFA registry until I request to remove it.  Which could be an issue if later transferred or was stolen, recovered, etc.  She gave me the info via email and I sent ATF the request to remove it from NFA registry via email and snail mail.  I attached the print outs of my request and a copy of the letter I sent to my Form 1.  

I took off the stock and sold it.

Just yesterday, June 18, 2020, I finally received a copy showing it was removed from registry, date stamped April 21st.  Still took 7 months for confirmation.

My experience with ATF, other LE, gun owners, supposed NFA gurus, we are not all on the same page.  For the simple stuff, yeah.  For stuff like this... a grey zone.  

Remember for crim charges to come your way it will 1st have to be approved by US attorneys office via the ATF. Setting aside the ATF and NFA hate, If someone (gun store) calls the ATF, ATF has the duty to respond.  If something looks fucky the gun store has a responsibility to call the ATF and ask clarifications.  

For those saying no need to notify ATF if all you do is physically change it back, I say you are mostly mistaken.  Physically change it, notify the ATF, sell.  Whether you wait the 6 months for a letter back confirming is up to you.  Once you've done A and B, and have such proof (email print out, mail receipts) you've prett much met your obligations.  And I've also scoured over that NFA manual for this information.  Still had to call.

I sent in a letter asking it to be removed/updated. No response yet.

Update on my deactivation letter mentioned above, I sent it on 30Apr and just got it back today. Well, I sent a second one on 3Jun saying the same thing, and that it was a follow up on the one sent on 30Apr, and that's the one they sent back with a "completed" stamp with a date on it. Curiously, the completed date stamp is 11May.