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Posted: 10/8/2021 10:51:49 PM EST
In Seffner. Florida,

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, Fla. (WFLA) – An explosion that destroyed a Hillsborough County home and left two people injured was apparently caused by a man reloading ammunition in his home.

According to Hillsborough County Fire Rescue, the man who is currently in critical condition was able to tell fire crews he was actively reloading small arms ammunition inside the house with around six pounds or more of smokeless powder near the area when the explosion took place just after 4:30 p.m. on Thursday.

Terrah Haertling was just a few doors down inside her home with her children when she heard the explosion.

Brian Laundrie search: Police did ‘everything we could’ to keep eye on him before disappearance
“This huge bang went off and my kids came running in to me and they didn’t know what was going on,” said Haertling.

She ran down the street in her bare feet to help.

“There was glass all over the street. The gentlemen inside was on the ground and he got up and when he got up he had some black on his stomach and some blood as well,” said Haertling.

Several neighbors reported smelling gunpowder in the air at the time of the explosion. Haertling says she was just concerned about her neighbor.

“I honestly hope that everything turns out fine. It was terrifying to see somebody so bloodied up and I know he was in shock,” said Haertling.

HCFR says the woman has since been treated and released from the hospital; while the man is in critical but stable condition.

No other nearby residents or animals were injured and investigators say no evidence discovered points towards criminal charges.

The residence was turned over to the homeowners and is a total loss.

LINK:   https://www.wfla.com/news/hillsborough-county/man-was-reloading-ammunition-prior-to-seffner-house-explosion-fire-rescue-says/
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 1:56:24 AM EST
[#1]
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 2:11:47 AM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 6:35:35 AM EST
[#3]
Agree. That story reeks of ‘I was cleaning it and it just went off’. Most likely playing with some explody stuff and doesn’t want to get in trouble. Or making pipe bombs…
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 6:47:36 AM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
https://i.imgur.com/CNlJwrvl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vvA4xv0l.jpg

So after my fire I built SAMMI approved powder/primer magazines.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder.pdf

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Primers.pdf

Basically a wood box built with 1 inch thick walls with a "weak" side.

Weak side on mine is I used finish nails and no glue building the box. You can push a side off with blows with your palm.

Or a lid held down by gravity.

I build my boxes with 3/4 wood, then line the inside with 1/4 inch boards. Plywood would work fine also.

https://i.imgur.com/wjcWp75l.jpg

You can see the the 3/4 and 1/4 boards in this pic. The pic above "18 cans" was under construction and hadn't been lined yet.
View Quote

The idea of those boxes is that there won't be an explosion due to pressure in the box if the powder ignites. There wouldn't be much fire protection. How does it benefit you over just having the powder on a shelf?


Link Posted: 10/9/2021 6:48:44 AM EST
[#5]
I wonder how many reloaders fail to ground their tables?  Static electricity is a bad thing.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 7:22:12 AM EST
[#6]
dryflash has the right of it, this story doesn't add up.

This guy was stuffing black powder into homemade fireworks or cooking meth or cleaning his bench with a gasoline-soaked rag or something.

No way no how does smokeless powder just blow up while reloading pistol rounds.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 7:35:39 AM EST
[#7]
I don't see how smokeless powder could have damaged the house like that unless
he was building a bomb and it was in a strong enough container to allow the pressure to
increase.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 7:36:50 AM EST
[#8]
Good info on the boxes dryflash.

The fire investigators will know all this but will they release that info once the investigation in complete is doubtful.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 7:40:17 AM EST
[#9]
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 7:41:04 AM EST
[#10]
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 7:49:43 AM EST
[#11]
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 7:55:08 AM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I had my shop burn down in 1997, so I know what happens with smokeless gunpowder and fires.

Smokeless gunpowder doesn't explode it burns like in a guns chamber. If you ever lit some you would know this.

Black powder explodes, but no mention of it in report.

If you ever lit smokeless and black powder you would know this.

In my fire my powder cans split, no explosion, and the powder burned. I had about 20 cans of powder. Again no explosion.

I had about 5k primers and they exploded and removed a 2x2 foot area of the wood shelf above my bench.

Video showed a Dillon press and loaded pistol rounds.

No way smokeless powder exploded and 6 pounds didn't cause that damage.

Something else exploded, no way reloading caused the explosion.

The guy could have been on the toilet and the explosion happened. Blame it on a burrito?

I call Bullshit on this story.
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Unless "set up" to explode in some sort of non-expansive, tightly-sealed container (like a pipe bomb, cannon breach, or such), I have never seen  modern smokeless powders "explode" in such a fashion as to wreck a house.  Burn, Yes; medium-order explosion, no.  I have heard of these sorts of explosions happening with certain artillery propellants as well as old nitrocellulose-based powders sold "back in the day", but nothing that has been commercially available in quantity for a LONG time.  I'm reckoning this was Black Powder (possibly "repurposed" or home-made) or one of the older black-powder substitutes.   Also, the fact that witnesses smelled a "gunpowder" smell in the aftermath of the incident is probably another tell.  That, or our victims found something old in grandpa's stuff and decided to try it out.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 8:07:10 AM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How do I know you didn't read the links?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

The idea of those boxes is that there won't be an explosion due to pressure in the box if the powder ignites. There wouldn't be much fire protection. How does it benefit you over just having the powder on a shelf?


How do I know you didn't read the links?

You don't. Yes there is a reference to <20 20-50lb stored in a wood box with at least 1" walls, but no there is no reference that I found for the fire (time) rating of such a box. Larger quantities eventually require a one hour rating, but 1" of wood certainly doesn't provide that. It would be interesting to make such a box and put it in a fire to see how long it took to fail.

Rather than lining with more wood it would probably be better to line it with a couple of layers of drywall.


Link Posted: 10/9/2021 8:26:21 AM EST
[#14]
100 pounds of black powder and get this, welding equipment in the same room
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/10/23/reloading-disaster/

Nice powder boxes dryflash3. You did it better than the feds.
Those wood ammo crates comply and like lumber numbers (a 2X4 is not 2" X 4") they do not use the width you use.
IMO it can not be thick enough but must be able to vent

I use a wood cabinet for sealed cans and open cans across the room in a small wall mounted wood cabinet.
I only have the 100 primers in the Dillon tube with others across the room and the only powder at my press is in my hopper

I keep a fire extinguisher in my reloading room

Dillon alone has sold over 750,000 presses so there are likely over a million reloaders in the US alone and these events are extremely rare

I am surprised Xiden hasn't shown up for a ban reloading photo op
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 8:33:50 AM EST
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I had my shop burn down in 1997, so I know what happens with smokeless gunpowder and fires.

Smokeless gunpowder doesn't explode it burns like in a guns chamber. If you ever lit some you would know this.

Black powder explodes, but no mention of it in report.

If you ever lit smokeless and black powder you would know this.

In my fire my powder cans split, no explosion, and the powder burned. I had about 20 cans of powder. Again no explosion.

I had about 5k primers and they exploded and removed a 2x2 foot area of the wood shelf above my bench.

Video showed a Dillon press and loaded pistol rounds.

No way smokeless powder exploded and 6 pounds didn't cause that damage.

Something else exploded, no way reloading caused the explosion.

The guy could have been on the toilet and the explosion happened. Blame it on a burrito?

I call Bullshit on this story.
View Quote


I have to agree.  Something is left out of this story.  6 lb of smokeless powder in factory container can't do this.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 9:54:21 AM EST
[#16]
I wonder where the FBI informant is hiding. Anyone check the nearest wood pile for him/her?
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 10:25:12 AM EST
[#17]
A Texas AR gunsmith had an accidental discharge that went through a 8 pound bottle of smokeless powder causing a flash fire and he was severely burned. I think it ended his career. I think his name was Albert Turner, but my memory is vague.

The introduction of a shock wave and exploding hot gasses would make it possible to simultaneously ignite and disperse the powder at the same time. No explosion.

I order for there to be an explosion the powder would have to be ignited in a hard sided container. How you introduce a spark inside such a container IDK.

Because the average citizen has no experience or knowledge regarding what can happen, most will take the story at face value. Waiting for new legislation as we speak.

Link Posted: 10/9/2021 11:01:58 AM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I call Bullshit on this story.
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Ditto!
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 11:09:08 AM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You don't. Yes there is a reference to <20 20-50lb stored in a wood box with at least 1" walls, but no there is no reference that I found for the fire (time) rating of such a box. Larger quantities eventually require a one hour rating, but 1" of wood certainly doesn't provide that. It would be interesting to make such a box and put it in a fire to see how long it took to fail.

Rather than lining with more wood it would probably be better to line it with a couple of layers of drywall.


View Quote



Perhaps (considering the source) some experts who know quite a bit about such things did think about it and maybe even did some testing.  Then wrote that for layman.  It's not a scientific paper subject to peer review.

Link Posted: 10/9/2021 11:15:31 AM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Perhaps (considering the source) some experts who know quite a bit about such things did think about it and maybe even did some testing.  Then wrote that for layman.  It's not a scientific paper subject to peer review.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

You don't. Yes there is a reference to <20 20-50lb stored in a wood box with at least 1" walls, but no there is no reference that I found for the fire (time) rating of such a box. Larger quantities eventually require a one hour rating, but 1" of wood certainly doesn't provide that. It would be interesting to make such a box and put it in a fire to see how long it took to fail.

Rather than lining with more wood it would probably be better to line it with a couple of layers of drywall.





Perhaps (considering the source) some experts who know quite a bit about such things did think about it and maybe even did some testing.  Then wrote that for layman.  It's not a scientific paper subject to peer review.


And just like that we now trust government experts.


Link Posted: 10/9/2021 11:19:40 AM EST
[#21]
Actually............ IMHO....... the base of Powder storage testing and laws comes from the SAAMI group:

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder.pdf

The Govt has no interest in testing all this.............  


PS..... like everyone else....... the story is BS, the guy was playing with some thing else besides smokeless powder.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 2:06:44 PM EST
[#22]
Story doesn't pass the smell test.  Smokeless powder won't do that.  I am sure the dems will use this to pass more restrictions on our rights however.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 2:08:48 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The idea of those boxes is that there won't be an explosion due to pressure in the box if the powder ignites. There wouldn't be much fire protection. How does it benefit you over just having the powder on a shelf?


View Quote


There would be more protection than just sitting on a shelf. Just like a fire door, there would be limits to how it will help and that depends on the fire, how large and intense it is etc.

The drywall as a interior lining idea is interesting. That would help also I would think.

Someone must have tested this to see.

I used 1” oak for the box and don’t have a latch on the lid so it can open easily under pressure. It’s heavy enough to stay closed on its own.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 3:21:27 PM EST
[#24]
SAAMI storage info for primers

SAAMI basically give the same recommendations for primers as for powder.  The attached NFPA requirements do give a lot of other requirements for primers when just stored in various other methods, but also give a catch all of just using a rated explosives magazine.  (Note that the 1” wood is nominal thickness.). Likely that a lot of folks are not following NFPA on the storage quantity limitations they recommend...  So maybe an actual rated magazine is an idea.  

I purchased and used three commercial explosives magazine for flash bangs, which basically have flash powder.  They were rated for whatever type of explosives you might have though.  These magazines are constructed of a steel box, lined with 1” nominal wood, with an overlapping steel and wood lined lid.  They also had two protected padlocks, and did not self vent at all.  (Lid might lift say 1/8”-1/4” before the lock stopped it lifting higher.)  I guess the theory with these is just keep it from catching fire as long as possible.  You were allowed to really pack these full of whatever explosives you had, so it would be a bad deal if they failed in a fire.  

For a SAAMI type powder or primer magazine, I think adding a layer of fire rated sheetrock to the wood would be a good idea, maybe on the exterior as well as the interior.  Wood takes a while to burn through, but drywall actually has water in it and that is why fire safes use it.  Of course in a safe, hot water vapor isn’t ideal for your guns, but it is better than high heat and flames I guess...
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 3:28:49 PM EST
[#25]
Forgot to mention- the news story sounds like BS to me as well.  Seen more than a few house fire explosions, usually propane, natural gas, fireworks, meth labs, or hash oil labs....

Reloading just doesn’t do it.  Not sure how it would even happen.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 3:38:39 PM EST
[#26]
How does it go?  People don’t think meth be like it do but it is?
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 3:47:17 PM EST
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
SAAMI storage info for primers

SAAMI basically give the same recommendations for primers as for powder.  The attached NFPA requirements do give a lot of other requirements for primers when just stored in various other methods, but also give a catch all of just using a rated explosives magazine.  (Note that the 1" wood is nominal thickness.). Likely that a lot of folks are not following NFPA on the storage quantity limitations they recommend...  So maybe an actual rated magazine is an idea.  

I purchased and used three commercial explosives magazine for flash bangs, which basically have flash powder.  They were rated for whatever type of explosives you might have though.  These magazines are constructed of a steel box, lined with 1" nominal wood, with an overlapping steel and wood lined lid.  They also had two protected padlocks, and did not self vent at all.  (Lid might lift say 1/8"-1/4" before the lock stopped it lifting higher.)  I guess the theory with these is just keep it from catching fire as long as possible.  You were allowed to really pack these full of whatever explosives you had, so it would be a bad deal if they failed in a fire.  

For a SAAMI type powder or primer magazine, I think adding a layer of fire rated sheetrock to the wood would be a good idea, maybe on the exterior as well as the interior.  Wood takes a while to burn through, but drywall actually has water in it and that is why fire safes use it.  Of course in a safe, hot water vapor isn't ideal for your guns, but it is better than high heat and flames I guess...
View Quote

I think I would make a 1/4" plywood box, glue two layers of 5/8" drywall to the outside it with staggered seams, then insert that assembly into another wooden box with a tight fit (maybe out of 5/4 to satisfy the SAAMI requirement). Make an unfastened lid that would duplicate that construction and you would end up with at least a 30 minute fire rating. I'd prefer that to the SAMMI 1" box because it would certainly last much longer in a fire and probably long enough for the FD to put it out.


Link Posted: 10/9/2021 4:05:43 PM EST
[#28]
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 4:35:52 PM EST
[#29]
Smells fishy... cinder block walls are blown out and his press is still intact with 9mm rounds still sitting on the bench. If the bench was the epicenter of the explosion, it would have been cleared.

Seems more like a gas leak explosion to cause that much damage....

Link Posted: 10/9/2021 5:02:27 PM EST
[#30]
Holy shit the house is leveled.

I have to agree with others, something seems fucky with the backstory.  Powder unless compressed will not explode to the best of my knowledge. Primers is another story.

If my wife ever gets wind of this story, my shit will be thrown out into the yard.
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 6:57:18 PM EST
[#31]
Blow up the meth lab and blame it on the reloading bench I wonder in the fire investigator or the cops will believe that bah of BS?
Link Posted: 10/9/2021 8:37:53 PM EST
[#32]
Obviously those of us who read this forum are DIY'ers to a large degree, but I have to think these ideas about rolling your own sorta fire resistant boxes with layers of wood and drywall, are kind of silly. Lots of so-called "gun" safes use drywall as their fire resistant fill material, but if you've read any of the related threads in the Safes and Home Security forum here, it's pretty clear that they're not all that effective.

If you want to exceed the published guidelines for storage ... maybe it's time to think about an actual fire suppression system? Self contained, zero-plumbing systems exist. Maybe buy one of these and stick it on the ceiling above your stuff?

https://ceasefire.com/Products/Search/Fire-Suppression

Surely that's worth more than some 1/2" Home Depot sheetrock stapled to some pine boards.

(No connection to that company. Just the first one Google turned up.)
Link Posted: 10/10/2021 12:59:21 AM EST
[#33]
wonder if the BATFE will investigate this one
Link Posted: 10/10/2021 2:09:53 AM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There's more (probably a lot more) to this story.
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Link Posted: 10/10/2021 12:27:02 PM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I wonder how many reloaders fail to ground their tables?  Static electricity is a bad thing.
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Wonder how many reloaders use metal tables......
Link Posted: 10/10/2021 12:51:08 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
wonder if the BATFE will investigate this one
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Look at 1:18 on the video...

At the end of this video the gentleman being interviewed said there is no gas in the neighborhood, so that negates that as a possible cause.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/2-seriously-injured-after-house-explodes-in-seffner
Link Posted: 10/10/2021 1:06:38 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
At the end of this video the gentleman being interviewed said there is no gas in the neighborhood, so that negates that as a possible cause.
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What about a leaking "extra" 20 pound propane can for their BBQ grill?
Link Posted: 10/10/2021 10:17:25 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What about a leaking "extra" 20 pound propane can for their BBQ grill?
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Quite possible or perhaps leaky welding tank. Not a BLEVE otherwise there would have been a fire.

Here's a drone's view of the damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e17rEdmZJDI&ab_channel=FOX13TampaBay
Link Posted: 10/10/2021 10:24:04 PM EST
[#39]
It was less than a mile from me.   I don't think they were doing .300 subs


I was in the garage at the time.   Heard/felt nada



Link Posted: 10/10/2021 10:25:23 PM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
wonder if the BATFE will investigate this one
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Yep.  They and the fbi showed up.
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 1:41:47 AM EST
[#41]
Grounding a metal work bench is not the be all and end all of ESD mitigation.  In fact, metal tables are not great (too conductive), wood is better dissipative enough.

You also have to ground your body (wrist strap).  You have to wear cotton clothing, certainly no outer layer of plastic (e.g., fleece jacket).

I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS WAS A SIMPLE RELOADING ACCIDENT.  

If it was, the reloading industry has a liability problem.

Knowing nothing about it, I'd bet a buck they made a bomb and it accidentally went off on them.

If it were a gas leak, the entire house would be gone.  Gas goes everywhere inside a structure, then it blows.

Is this an all-electric neighborhood, that there is no gas?
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 4:50:28 AM EST
[#42]
You can have a gas tank and gas if you want. My neighbor has one and my daughter just remodeled a house and had a gas stove installed with a huge tank outside.
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 6:19:49 AM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:/





I keep a fire extinguisher in my reloading room

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I have fire extinguishers placed strategically throughout my house. Their primary purpose it to keep my exit route clear of fire while I’m getting out.
An extinguisher in the reloading area may help keeping a fire from reaching the powder/primer storage but will be useless in trying to put out burning powder because it contains it’s own oxidizer.
Don’t store powder where it can compromise your escape route if it starts to burn. Have an escape plan.
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 8:07:03 AM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have fire extinguishers placed strategically throughout my house my house. Their primary purpose it to keep my exit route clear of fire while I’m getting out.
An extinguisher in the reloading area may help keeping a fire from reaching the powder/primer storage but will be useless in trying to put out burning powder because it contains it’s own oxidizer.
Don’t store powder where it can compromise your escape route if it starts to burn. Have an escape plan.
View Quote


Excellent suggestion
My 2 reloading stations are positioned near the door of the room with all ready primers/powder away from that point and the fire extinguisher within hands reach and between me and the door so I can either fight fire or use it to escape. My layout does not require stationing extinguishers as it opens to a great room with 3 easy exists
IMO everyone should consider your post and ask how it applies to their layout
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 6:12:25 PM EST
[#45]
Wonder if we will get to hear what actually happened?

Regarding the magazine boxes, keep in mind that these are no different than flammable cabinets in purpose.  The goal is to protect people.  You do that by delaying the time for the contents to cook off, allowing persons more egress time.  The drywall would help serve that purpose, but generally you are assuming an evac event with loss of all contained materials if your magazines are utilized.  1” of wood is a pretty good thermal insulator, for a while at least.  Unlike metal, wood doesn’t sag or deform much before failure.  I’ve had to explain this to people that should have known better.  

The big magazines I used to fill with large caliber stuff were a different philosophy.  Strong wall, earthen berms taller than the building and weak roofs.  Idea being to make the blast go up, so being outside and right up against the berms being the more safe(ish) point in case of a fire inside the magazine.  Then limit contents and distance the other magazines to try to limit failure to one, well, ideally none.



Link Posted: 10/12/2021 8:29:34 AM EST
[#46]
Not a chance in hell this was reloading.
This is a propaganda movement.  If your neighbors know you reload and they have no knowledge of reloading itself, this fake news story has them looking at you thinking "really don't want this in my neighborhood"
No, this is the subtle beginning of another movement.
My theory, propane explosion for insurance claim.
Link Posted: 10/12/2021 8:52:39 PM EST
[#47]
I have a feeling we will never know what really happened. I haven't found anything reported on this since the occurrence. The way news agencies report these days is to interview the uninformed for some emotional air time and neglect the true cause of the incident.



Link Posted: 10/13/2021 4:06:34 AM EST
[#48]
Dryflash is 100% spot on in his thoughts about explosion and storage of powder.
The idea of the wood box with weak side isn't so much to prevent ignition but rather to prevent detonation.
Also, be aware:
If you have a house fire and insurance folks find out you improperly stored powder, they can try to use that to deny your claim.
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 12:40:09 AM EST
[#49]
I am suspicious the press ignited a primer and found a propane leak the hard way.

Maybe one of these was sitting on the bench.


Link Posted: 10/14/2021 8:44:31 PM EST
[#50]
Something is going on here that we aren't being told.  He was doing something other than normal reloading.
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