Seating die creating a ring around my bullets

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Seating die creating a ring around my bullets

Posted: 9/12/2018 6:18:07 PM EDT

Hey all,

Using a Dillon 550 with Dillon carbide 223 dies. I just switched from Hornady 62gr FMJ-BT to Hornady 75gr HPBT's. The 75gr bullets have a concentric ring around them after the seating die. I didn't bother putting them in the crimping die, I figured I wanted to figure out what was going wrong first.

Any suggestions would be extremely helpful

Posted: 9/12/2018 6:22:45 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Hey all,

Using a Dillon 550 with Dillon carbide 223 dies. I just switched from Hornady 62gr FMJ-BT to Hornady 75gr HPBT's. The 75gr bullets have a concentric ring around them after the seating die. I didn't bother putting them in the crimping die, I figured I wanted to figure out what was going wrong first.

Any suggestions would be extremely helpful

View Quote

The profile of your seating stem doesn't match the new bullet.

Call Dillon and see if they can help. 1-800-223-4570

Posted: 9/12/2018 6:31:42 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
The profile of your seating stem doesn't match the new bullet.

Call Dillon and see if they can help. 1-800-223-4570

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hey all,

Using a Dillon 550 with Dillon carbide 223 dies. I just switched from Hornady 62gr FMJ-BT to Hornady 75gr HPBT's. The 75gr bullets have a concentric ring around them after the seating die. I didn't bother putting them in the crimping die, I figured I wanted to figure out what was going wrong first.

Any suggestions would be extremely helpful

The profile of your seating stem doesn't match the new bullet.

Call Dillon and see if they can help. 1-800-223-4570

I did and he told me to put JB weld on it and see if it holds and stops doing it, essentially.

Posted: 9/12/2018 6:35:38 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:

I did and he told me to put JB weld on it and see if it holds and stops doing it, essentially.

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Well, that's a standard work around until or of you want to get a different seating stem.

Posted: 9/12/2018 7:47:19 PM EDT

[#4]

www.accurateshooter.com has a "Daily Bulletin" that you can follow regarding a variety of tech issues.

They just ran a fix for your problem this week. Get some valve lapping compound and chuck your bullet in a drill and use the compound to lap the bullet to custom fit your seating stem.

You simply unscrew the seating stem so you can do this. You can chuck the seating stem in the drill and hold the bullet if you prefer. Just try to keep them perfectly aligned.

Posted: 9/12/2018 7:49:46 PM EDT

[#5]

Lee dies did that to v-max bullets for me, Hornady dies do not.

May not want to spend the money but a different manufacturer of die may solve your troubles, or not

Posted: 9/12/2018 8:28:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
www.accurateshooter.com has a "Daily Bulletin" that you can follow regarding a variety of tech issues.

They just ran a fix for your problem this week. Get some valve lapping compound and chuck your bullet in a drill and use the compound to lap the bullet to custom fit your seating stem.

You simply unscrew the seating stem so you can do this. You can chuck the seating stem in the drill and hold the bullet if you prefer. Just try to keep them perfectly aligned.

View Quote

Wow okay awesome, jumping over there right now. Thank you

Posted: 9/12/2018 9:02:01 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:

Wow okay awesome, jumping over there right now. Thank you

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I wouldn't worry about it to much. It won't hurt anything, besides when you change bullets again, it'll be wrong for that one.

If it were mine, I'd shorten the seating die end a hair if it bothered me.

Posted: 9/12/2018 9:13:14 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
I wouldn't worry about it to much. It won't hurt anything, besides when you change bullets again, it'll be wrong for that one.

If it were mine, I'd shorten the seating die end a hair if it bothered me.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Wow okay awesome, jumping over there right now. Thank you

I wouldn't worry about it to much. It won't hurt anything, besides when you change bullets again, it'll be wrong for that one.

If it were mine, I'd shorten the seating die end a hair if it bothered me.

For my .223 loads I'm sticking with these 75gr BTHP's long term. Was doing 62gr FMJ-BT's for a few months and wanted better. All 3 5.56 AR's that shoot my reloads liked em so I would be very surprised if my bullet choice changes in the near future.

6.5G is where I can't decide what I'm going with

Posted: 9/12/2018 9:15:08 PM EDT

[#9]

The proper seating stem will definitely help. I noticed my RCBS die does it only on compressed loads.

Posted: 9/12/2018 11:58:46 PM EDT

[#10]

I had the same problem when loading 68 BTHPs, used a hot glue gun on my seating stem to crest my “custom” stem for load development. My gun didn’t like those bullets, so I removed the glue.

Posted: 9/13/2018 6:27:05 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

For my .223 loads I'm sticking with these 75gr BTHP's long term. Was doing 62gr FMJ-BT's for a few months and wanted better. All 3 5.56 AR's that shoot my reloads liked em so I would be very surprised if my bullet choice changes in the near future.

6.5G is where I can't decide what I'm going with

View Quote

Then if it were me , I would remove the seating stem, take the bullet seater part/end and just grind off a bit of metal on the seat plug, the inside edge is what is

making it's mark on your bullets, it wont take much, just a hair, maybe just round off the inside edge a bit.

But really you should be able to get another seat stem plug, I have also heard of the JB weld trick years ago already.

But some companies like RCBS will send/make you a new one if you send them your bullet. But you got dillion, IDK if they would do the same or just fix your plug

by shorting the edge, I bet it takes less than a minute, just make sure it square. Really I would try a small corner of sandstone inside the seater plug first, to rid the edge.

Posted: 9/13/2018 12:38:17 PM EDT

[#12]

I would be concerned about the modified stem inducing runout if the new shape is not as perfectly concentric as the original.

Then there's the issue dennyd raised of what happens when you change bullets or even bullet lots (when Hornady changes the pointing die which ios ever-so slightly different).

Tiny deformations may be easy to see because of their optical effects but they will not affect ballistic performance.

Posted: 9/13/2018 3:44:52 PM EDT

[#13]

Most of the time a bit of elbow grease with solve the etching done to the bullet while seating the bullet.

It was mentioned above to see accurate shooter dot com tech article.

RCBS does not have seating stems to suit different bullets so polishing is your option
Redding in their Competition seater dies have a std seater plug which is easily removed and polished. They make a VLD plug that is an extra cost option.
Redding in their standard seater dies do not have VLD plug so polishing is you only option. They make a Micrometer Replacement plug meant for either Std or VLD style bullets which are extra cost items.
Hornady makes customized replacement stems for their bullets like the A-Max and ELD. Some are bullet specific others are caliber specific.
Forster does not seam to have the too many problems with etching and their seaters.
L.E. Wilson makes a VLD replacement seater die drift for their line of dies.

Posted: 9/13/2018 9:53:33 PM EDT

[#14]

Forster seating dies have the correct profile on the stem for 75 gr Hornady Match and A-Max bullets (my go-to bullets for NRA Highpower & Long Range competition). Redding dies also have the correct profile, but the metallurgy isn't right - after hundreds to thousands of rounds it will bell which then galls the sliding case holder. This is more of a problem if you use compressed loads, but will happen sooner or later. You can avoid several problems by getting the Forster micrometer seater; I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds on mine with no issues, just routine cleaning and lubrication.

Posted: 9/13/2018 10:16:31 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Most of the time a bit of elbow grease with solve the etching done to the bullet while seating the bullet.

It was mentioned above to see accurate shooter dot com tech article.

RCBS does not have seating stems to suit different bullets so polishing is your option
Redding in their Competition seater dies have a std seater plug which is easily removed and polished. They make a VLD plug that is an extra cost option.
Redding in their standard seater dies do not have VLD plug so polishing is you only option. They make a Micrometer Replacement plug meant for either Std or VLD style bullets which are extra cost items.
Hornady makes customized replacement stems for their bullets like the A-Max and ELD. Some are bullet specific others are caliber specific.
Forster does not seam to have the too many problems with etching and their seaters.
L.E. Wilson makes a VLD replacement seater die drift for their line of dies.

View Quote

Nice summation but OP is using Dillon dies and Dillon told him to use epoxy to custom form the stem.

Which we both know to be the standard modification.

Posted: 9/14/2018 1:10:03 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Nice summation but OP is using Dillon dies and Dillon told him to use epoxy to custom form the stem.

Which we both know to be the standard modification.

View Quote

The only way I can think of to do that and maintain concentricity would be to use an already seated bullet as the “mold”, coat the bullet and case with Release agent, put a dab of epoxy on the seater stem then carefully reassemble the seater and slowly lower the press handle until the bullet is “seated” and let it sit for the cure time.

Is that it or am I missing something.

Posted: 9/14/2018 7:13:50 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

The only way I can think of to do that and maintain concentricity would be to use an already seated bullet as the “mold”, coat the bullet and case with Release agent, put a dab of epoxy on the seater stem then carefully reassemble the seater and slowly lower the press handle until the bullet is “seated” and let it sit for the cure time.

Is that it or am I missing something.

View Quote

Well you have to make sure the bullet don't squish out all the poxy in front or your back to square one.

I would still try smoothing the bottom inside edge first. If it's smooth and a little rounded your not going to get marks. You're not going to screw up the plug.
Don't worry so much, takes a minute. At least check to see if the inside edge is sharp, if it is you know you got to try, before the epoxy.

Posted: 9/14/2018 10:44:47 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

The only way I can think of to do that and maintain concentricity would be to use an already seated bullet as the "mold", coat the bullet and case with Release agent, put a dab of epoxy on the seater stem then carefully reassemble the seater and slowly lower the press handle until the bullet is "seated" and let it sit for the cure time.

Is that it or am I missing something.

View Quote

That's it.

Posted: 9/23/2018 1:13:28 AM EDT

[#19]

Could it be that you are compressing your powder charge therefore making it take more force to seat the bullet which in turn is indenting the bullet surface?

It would be easy to find out. Simply seat a couple into prepped but not primed or powder charged casings.

Motor

Posted: 9/23/2018 1:41:54 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's it.

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But you'd have to be molding onto a bullet with zero runout seated in a case with zero runout.

I would start with the test Motor1 mentioned and go from there.

Posted: 9/23/2018 2:13:45 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

The only way I can think of to do that and maintain concentricity would be to use an already seated bullet as the “mold”, coat the bullet and case with Release agent, put a dab of epoxy on the seater stem then carefully reassemble the seater and slowly lower the press handle until the bullet is “seated” and let it sit for the cure time.

Is that it or am I missing something.

View Quote

I did something similar for a top punch. I sleeved my bullet in a piece of rubber from a glove then sunk it into the epoxy. Once it cured, I was able to clean off any remaining epoxy and rubber from the punch. The rubber acted as a bit of a cushion. It worked well to remove the ring.

While this wasn’t a seating stem, the concept was similar.

Posted: 9/25/2018 11:17:49 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Most of the time a bit of elbow grease with solve the etching done to the bullet while seating the bullet.

It was mentioned above to see accurate shooter dot com tech article.

RCBS does not have seating stems to suit different bullets so polishing is your option
Redding in their Competition seater dies have a std seater plug which is easily removed and polished. They make a VLD plug that is an extra cost option.
Redding in their standard seater dies do not have VLD plug so polishing is you only option. They make a Micrometer Replacement plug meant for either Std or VLD style bullets which are extra cost items.
Hornady makes customized replacement stems for their bullets like the A-Max and ELD. Some are bullet specific others are caliber specific.
Forster does not seam to have the too many problems with etching and their seaters.
L.E. Wilson makes a VLD replacement seater die drift for their line of dies.

View Quote

I talked to RCBS recently about my 224 Valkyrie seater die since it left a small ring on my ELD bullets. Before calling them, I polished the inside of the plug (put CLP in the plug and spun a bullet around in it for a while) then cleaned it with a QTip. The ring disappeared by about 95%.

Anyways RCBS said five years ago their seater stems were designed off of a secant ogive profile but every year a new flavor of bullet comes out and they can’t keep up. He did tell me I could send in say 3 of my 80gr ELDs and they would make a custom seater stem for $18. Good if you only shoot one or two bullet types, bad if you have a lot. I’m going to polish my original one some more before getting one made

Posted: 9/25/2018 11:29:13 AM EDT

[#23]

I ordered a couple extra seating stems from Dillon. I polished the hell out of my original, the ring now looks more like a rub mark, it doesn't seem to be leaving any actual indention in the bullets anymore. When I get adventurous I might screw with one of the spares for the hell of it, but right now I'm okay with where I am. Went shooting yesterday at the indoor range 3 mins from my house and at 25y, 30 rounds were all touching. I'm happy enough with that. Obviously when I get back to the 300y range will be the real test, but I'd be surprised if I see serious deviation with these.

Posted: 9/25/2018 11:36:30 AM EDT

[#24]

I usually only get that when the cases need annealing or the inside of the case necks are too clean. The additional seating force can cause the ring to occur.

Posted: 9/28/2018 4:41:44 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Hey all,

Using a Dillon 550 with Dillon carbide 223 dies. I just switched from Hornady 62gr FMJ-BT to Hornady 75gr HPBT's. The 75gr bullets have a concentric ring around them after the seating die. I didn't bother putting them in the crimping die, I figured I wanted to figure out what was going wrong first.

Any suggestions would be extremely helpful

View Quote

If it is the typical bullet seating ring it is purely cosmetic.

Did you chamfer the case mouths?
A square case mouth can require enough force (vs. a chamfered one) to get the bullet started to increase the chance of marking from a less than perfect bullet seating plug.

Before going whole hog on the plug a little Flitz and a piece of lead shot may polish the edges of the seating plug enough to eliminate the mark.

It does not take much of a bur on the seating plug edge to make the mark.

Posted: 9/28/2018 10:53:38 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
www.accurateshooter.com has a "Daily Bulletin" that you can follow regarding a variety of tech issues.

They just ran a fix for your problem this week. Get some valve lapping compound and chuck your bullet in a drill and use the compound to lap the bullet to custom fit your seating stem.

You simply unscrew the seating stem so you can do this. You can chuck the seating stem in the drill and hold the bullet if you prefer. Just try to keep them perfectly aligned.

View Quote

This. Lap the seating stem with a couple of sacrificial bullets or turn your own to match your profile.

The problem is the ogive shape of the seating stem does not match the ogive shape of your bullet.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Seating die creating a ring around my bullets

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