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Posted: 12/21/2020 1:43:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/21/2020 3:01:31 PM EST by TheGrayGhost]
Thread title.

I am thinking of building a 5.56 upper with a pinned barrel to get  a minimum legal rifle length.

I am familiar with the 14.5 / 14.7" barrel plus pinned flash hider, but have heard of some other options like a 13.7"? SOLGW barrel, etc.

I am thinking of a Faxon gunner, or something like that - all the better if it's a pre-built upper.

What are some good options in BRAND, BARREL LENGTH, and FLASH HIDER to pin?

Thanks.

Edited To Add:  I already have a 16" rifle.  Looking at other options now and don't want to go NFA.  Thanks
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:49:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/21/2020 1:50:16 PM EST by sammy2k]
Why go through all of that trouble to save a inch? Just get a 16” barrel.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 2:00:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sammy2k:
Why go through all of that trouble to save a inch? Just get a 16” barrel.
View Quote

After having owned a few pinned and welded guns, I have to agree with the above.

It just isn’t worth it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 2:02:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sammy2k:
Why go through all of that trouble to save a inch? Just get a 16" barrel.
View Quote
pffft. Do it op. And it is not an inch. There are far too many options to give them all to you. My personal preference is a mid length pencil barrel and dynacomp 2 but that is just what I like.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 2:59:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sammy2k:
Why go through all of that trouble to save a inch? Just get a 16” barrel.
View Quote


This, but if you must, just make sure it's done right.  I know a gentleman who paid a local gun shop to pin and weld, and the muzzle device came off when removing his suppressor by hand.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 7:55:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 1:57:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2020 2:38:27 PM EST by TheGrayGhost]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Not trying to be a stick in the mud or persuade you to alter your choices ... but, Glen Zediker said it best for me.

If you are going to get a shorter barrel P/W'd to 16".... you may as well just get as much barrel as possible, for the velocity increase over a 13.7" ( or shorter ) barrel.

Have you considered a pistol build ?
View Quote


@bfoosh06

I have considered a pistol build, but looking at where the ATF is going with them, I would like an alternative I can still take to the range where handwringing leftists reside.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 2:02:46 PM EST
I'll preface by saying I do maybe 350-400 pin and welds a year.

Before you go down this road, please learn some simple math. You'd be amazed at how many people don't understand:

Barrel length + muzzle device length - 0.625" (Thread overlap) needs to be > or = 16"



Don't be a dweeb and try to shim something out to make it work, just get the right length barrel and device from the start to say yourself and arguably your gunsmith some grief.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 5:42:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By unclemoak:
I'll preface by saying I do maybe 350-400 pin and welds a year.

Before you go down this road, please learn some simple math. You'd be amazed at how many people don't understand:

Barrel length + muzzle device length - 0.625" (Thread overlap) needs to be > or = 16"



Don't be a dweeb and try to shim something out to make it work, just get the right length barrel and device from the start to say yourself and arguably your gunsmith some grief.
View Quote


Excellent advice.  Indeed, make sure the barrel and device end up 16" or a bit over.

Not all devices are long enough.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 6:04:30 PM EST
Ballistic Advantage Hanson 14.5 barrels in either 223 Wylde or 5.56 and a VG6 GAMMA SL or Epsilon SL make for some sweet shooters. The VG6's are 2.1" long, just enough to make the P+W work for 16" legality. I use the SL devices for weight savings. They are .740" diameter, just in case one decides they need to remove the gas system and/or barrel from the receiver.

Next setup is going to be built with a muzzle device for a suppressor. Most likely going to go with the Silencerco ASR or the Rugged Suppressor brake/mount. Those are around 2.25", so they will work for 16" legality as well.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 1:09:39 PM EST
If you have to have a 16” barrel length, it might as well be rifled the full length.

5.56 performance is definitely dependent on barrel length.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 2:03:15 PM EST
I'm going to agree with not bothering. I have a 6720 and have done many P/W 16" in that past. The only one I still have is an XM177-ish clone with a 12.5" P/W to 16". Otherwise, going 11.5" pistol.


Link Posted: 12/26/2020 2:16:05 PM EST
The good solution for me was to go the SAW way (Specialized Armament Colt Barrel) because all I wanted was one (or two) Colt M4s with a good looking barrel.

I never liked rifles with extra long barrels and looks for me always mattered; I mostly like military rifles and that's about it.

You won't want to go my route, and I was a resident of CA at the time - I couldn't even have gone the SBR way (and I wanted it) back in the day.

Today I'd SBR but I still have and love the two Colt M4s that SAW reworked for me as shown in the picture below

LMT Lower Colt M4 Upper by SoloDallas, on Flickr

Colt M4A1 by SoloDallas, on Flickr

1.5 Colt M4 and Wilcox by SoloDallas, on Flickr

Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel by SoloDallas, on Flickr
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 8:06:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2020 8:09:04 PM EST by Strela]
Pick any quality bbl, any muzzle device that you like and send it off to John Thomas at Retro Arms Works.

Do you want to maintain a factory appearance with an A2-style FH? A brake? A comp if you're into competition shooting? Something for the ultimate in flash suppression? Lotsa choices OP.

JT just did a P&W for me with a Colt M4 bbl and a Smith Vortex.
Link Posted: 12/27/2020 2:40:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2020 2:43:40 PM EST by TheGrayGhost]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By unclemoak:
I'll preface by saying I do maybe 350-400 pin and welds a year.

Before you go down this road, please learn some simple math. You'd be amazed at how many people don't understand:

Barrel length + muzzle device length - 0.625" (Thread overlap) needs to be > or = 16"



Don't be a dweeb and try to shim something out to make it work, just get the right length barrel and device from the start to say yourself and arguably your gunsmith some grief.
View Quote


@Unclemoak

good advice.  I've read/heard that some people don't remember to subtract the thread lol.

What rail length do you normally see put on these?  If I go through with it, I was thinking of using a FH that will accept a suppressor and would want it to be close to but not in the rail.

@Strela

Good info.  Do you piece it together yourself or have it made somewhere?  My only real fear of this is getting it P&W'ed only to find the gas, barrel, etc. is off.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 7:58:31 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheGrayGhost:


@Unclemoak

good advice.  I've read/heard that some people don't remember to subtract the thread lol.

What rail length do you normally see put on these?  If I go through with it, I was thinking of using a FH that will accept a suppressor and would want it to be close to but not in the rail.

@Strela

Good info.  Do you piece it together yourself or have it made somewhere?  My only real fear of this is getting it P&W'ed only to find the gas, barrel, etc. is off.
View Quote


As a general rule of thumb, the rail length needs to be 0.75" shorter than the barrel length. (e.g. 16" barrel can have a maximum of a 15.25" rail, 14.5" barrel a 13.75" rail, etc)

This measurement can vary slightly depending on three things:

1. The actual length of the rail because not all rails measure true to their length .
2. The shape of the end of the rail.
3. The type of muzzle device and suppressor used.

Hope this helps.

Link Posted: 12/28/2020 8:30:42 AM EST
Join a clone thread, 14.5” will be your friend


Link Posted: 12/28/2020 4:46:40 PM EST
Or just SBR your lower. Arguably just a little more cost wise than a pin/weld/shipping and more flexible.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 7:34:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2020 8:20:14 AM EST by humahuma]
id also go sbr. my second choice would be a triarc 13.9" upper pinned at the factory. they have a several muzzle device options including DA.

if you go this route i would ask that they test the muzzle device with a suppressor mount before welding it on. i ordered a DA flash hider once that was out of spec. DA handled it quickly but id hate to discover the same issue after it was welded.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 8:46:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sputnik556:

After having owned a few pinned and welded guns, I have to agree with the above.

It just isn’t worth it.
View Quote

I've had a few myself and here's my take on it... The difference is more then 1" and is noticeable in both handling and balance but can be a PITA if you like to switch things around a lot.

So if you are looking for the shortest, best handling package you can get without a tax stamp then go for it but only if you are the type to build it and leave it be. If you are the type that is always changing things around and trying different forends then the pinned route may be more problems then its worth.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 9:24:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2020 9:46:28 AM EST by humahuma]
^ ^^ great advice.

my main concern would be wanting to change suppressor mounts. i actually have a 14.5" that i SBR'd because i wanted the increased velocity over my 11.5" and the ability to swap muzzle devices in the future. i think of it as SBRing a lower and not the rifle as a whole. you can throw any upper you want on it.

OP - i think a pistol would be a great option. you can run a vert grip at that OAL. there is always the chance that the ATF will try to change pistol laws again in the future but you could pin and weld at that time. if you already have a buffer tube, the price of a sba3 brace makes SBR more justifiable. ;)

Link Posted: 1/7/2021 10:29:38 PM EST
op, I got a deal on a Colt Socom barrel that was 14.5". Added a silencer ASR mount and verified the length. Then drilled, pin and a spot of weld. Done and looks good.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 4:16:18 PM EST
More ATF BS.
Any muzzle device is not part of the barrel, so all the rules around pin/weld are BS.

Make the damn rules tied to barrel, and be done with it.

A 4" barrel with a 12" blast can welded to the 4" is legit?

The ATF needs to be abolished.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 11:28:23 PM EST
I have one that I built years ago because I got a really good deal on the barrel. Sent it to ADCO for the work.
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