Okay, so at present I have two SMGs.  I have four kids (all boys) and I'd like to up my number of transferables to four so they each get one when I'm gone.  These things are not getting any cheaper so I figure I should buy sooner rather than later.  That way I get to enjoy them too for quite a while (hopefully).  

My title I firearm collection has gotten a little bit out of hand.  All three of my safes are full so I'm thinking of selling some of the guns I don't use much that are also not particularly collectable and using that money to fund the new MGs.  I'm not made of money and I need to buy two guns, so I'm primarily interested in guns that are sub-$10,000 each.  

This is what I have now:

"Original" Texas MAC M10.  I had it totally reworked by Sam at Practical Solutions.  It has an Uzi magwell conversion, a Lage Mk.II  9mm upper, original Lage .45 ACP upper, 9mm and .45 ACP stock uppers, Practical Solutions folding Uzi stock and various accessories.  

SWD completed Texas MAC M10.  This one started life as a Texas receiver but was completed by SWD so it has all the proper welds, standard internals, reinforced pin hole, etc.   It is a .45 ACP gun with factory and Lage Mk. II uppers.  It also has various accessories from Lage, folding stock, etc.  

I also have a Lage MAX-31 9mm Suomi upper that works with either gun.

So, the obvious solution is two more MACs of some kind or another, but that seems a little dull.  I'd like something with some historical significance outside 80s action movies (not that there is anything wrong with 80s action movies, I grew up on them).

I'm considering one more MAC.  I can't decide if I should go with another M10 to dedicate my MAX-31 to (this is the most cost effective option since I would just need to buy a different stock) or something more interesting.  I have three basic options I'm interested in:

-Another M10

-A M11/9

-A M11A1

I'm most intrigued by the M11A1 due to the small size and the availability of the MAX-31K and of course the stock upper running at 1800 RPM.  The M11/9 is the most versatile but also the least interesting to me for some reason, the M10 is the most cost effective.

As for the other gun.  I'm intrigued by the various STENs.  Parts seem available as are magazines.  It is crude but it has character.  The "new" tube guns (as opposed to the C&R originals) seem to run about the same cost as the various MACs.

Are there any other "historically significant" guns I am missing that are $10k or less and have good parts/magazine availability?

I know I could get a "better" gun for more money and/or sell the guns I have, add the money I would be spending on the additional MGs and get something like a M16 or HK sear.  However, that isn't really the point.  We like shooting SMGs.  I've shot rifle caliber MGs.  They are fun, but not really what I'm after.  Four HK sears would be great, but that isn't in the cards.

So thoughts?  Any input on the STEN or MAC choice?

TIA!

You must have at least one M16/AR-15 type in your collection.

Let the boys battle it out over who deserves to inherit it, while the others get bullet-hose SMGs.

Yeah Sten's are cool and around the same price point as a MAC.

A MAC or a STEN are about your only choices for a <$10K gun.

If you can swing it, $13K for a Group/Vector UZI would be my next suggested acquisition.

Yeah, for the cost of the two SMGs plus some extra I could get something like a converted SP1.  I could always hope a STEN or another MAC is in the cards later.  Still, as much as I enjoy ARs, I just don't see shooting that much 5.56 on full-auto.  With 9x19 from a M16 the advantages are real in a serious environment but all of these guns are just range toys.  I'm not sure the better ergos and closed bolt operation are worth an extra $10k+ for cutting down walls of cinder blocks at the farm.  Still, it is something to think about.  One cannot deny the options and parts availability of the M16.

 


I do like the Uzi, it is another 80's icon with at least a theoretically available .22 LR kit.  I might consider that, though that is nearly the planned budget for another MAC and a STEN.  Decisions decisions.

I think a S&W 76 would fit your price point and it would be a little different than the Macs.

I had a Powder Springs Mac 10, 45 acp and it was fun but I like shooting the S&W 9mm sub gun more.

Magazines are pricey and may push the price of it above the 10k you want to spend.

For the amount of money you'd be spending on a "dressed out" m-11/9, you could also have a nice Reising in a Police hardcase with a couple of mags...   along with some extra Christie 30rd mags, titanium firing pins, etc, etc,,,,,

Assuming that all four children will survive you, and will want or can own a machine gun are assumptions that you can not make.  My parents out lived two of my siblings.  Any and all of your surviving children might end up living in Hawaii or another state where private machinegun ownership is not allowed or is prohibitively expensive.

Oversimplified, what I have done is set up my estate to let surviving children choose what in the estate they would like to inherit with the end result that all inherit shares of equal monetary value.  Any net difference in value will have to be equalized in cash by whoever wants more valuable assets.  If there are multiple heirs that want the same item, the heir that will get the item in question will be chosen by a random draw.

This lets me buy and sell whatever I want.

Best of luck.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.

You might have mentioned this, but I might have missed it in the above posts......

IMHO, sell guns that you don't want or need to help fund the MGs for your kids. Easy decision.

However, have you talked to them about what MG they would want?  Give them an option or max price.

Or maybe try to keep all MGs close to the same so you have maximum part and mag interchangeable with each other MG.

A full-size UZI is a great option and something different than the MAC family. I would personally pass on the m11a1. ROF is crazy. The ride is over almost as soon as it begins.

There is a vector/group full-size on Sturm right now for $12k with 22lr and 45 conversion kits.

I'm in the process of listing title I guns I don't use and won't really miss (really miss, I always miss the ones I sell...well almost always).  If the first round I am selling goes for anything like what I am asking that will fund one of the guns.

My oldest wants the M10 45.  The others claim they will be happy with anything full-auto (the only experience they have is my MACs with FA anyway).  

Good advice, thanks.

The small-frame A1 arguably makes the best RR if you’re going to run more Lage or James Machine (Redneckengineer) uppers. But you really can’t go with any of them. Ideally, get one (or more) of each.

Also, you’re nominated for Dad of the Year.

For me to answer your questions I would need more information. Where are your boys in their lives? Are they established adults? Do your kids have interest in owning a machinegun compared to other lifestyle decisions? How long before they would be on their own? As previously posted, what direction in life are they going? Do they all have interest in shooting now?

I sold the bulk of my Title I collect to buy my first machinegun. But I started with a Colt M16. I wanted the different calibers and configurations. For me the only time I shoot semi automatic is sighting in and with a handgun. I wanted even more configurations so I sold the Colt gun after I bought a DIAS. I love the MGI modular magwell system with the DIAS.

To me the biggest question is, are you collecting for your kids or for yourself? I like shooting different stuff. I happen to have two M10s with the Uzi magwell conversion. I bought more than one because the second one was an instate transfer at a good price and I planned to use it for testing with the Tenko adapter. At a minimum for my own collecting I would keep an Uzi magwell conversion for 9mm. Have the other M10 converted to a Grease gun magwell for  .45. Then buy a small magwell M11 and a CF(W) tungsten bolt for slow fire  .380. And finish the family out with the M11/NINE with both versions of the CF(W) 9mm bolts and what ever Lage uppers strike your fancy. But that is my preference given what you said as far as budget and your current collection.

If given the budget of the four under $10,000, hands down I would buy a HK sear and some clones. The MP5 is very different from the MP5K, which is different from the MP5 SD, which is different from all those in 40 S&W, which is different in 10mm AUTO. I have 25 different host guns, most of which are configurations that HK never made. The K in 10mm is a real hand handful. The SD in 40 S&W is so different from 9mm. You want ultimate versatility in pistol caliber, I can't think of anything more versatile than a HK sear.

I have two kids. They both have some interest but are very young. They are not at the point of being adults with their own lives. My collection makes me happy. When I am done with my stuff, my wife and kids can decide what they want to keep and what they want to sell. Good luck with your collection decision.

Scott

PPSH, or an M-16 (If you can find one for under $10K).

HK sears are over $30k these days. Ditto DIAS for AR15s.
Unless prices have taken a real nose dive, even an off-brand converted AR-15 is gonna be $20k.

I admire your sentiment, but children don’t always inherit the same passions as their parents. Unless all 4 boys are already fighting over who gets to shoot  the 2 MG’s you have and your main passion in this life is to leave each your children a MG. That being said, a little diversity in your collection would be my opinion, S&W 76, Vector Uzi or a 5.56mm choice i.e. M16, or closer to your price point AC556 or FNC.
Personally, I don’t look at machine guns strictly as objects that I’ll hand down to my children, though they very well could be. At the moment, I have 3 MG’s and I also see them as stable investment vehicles or at worst “static investments”. You may disagree but I’m certain we can all agree that MGs are more fun than watching a 401k.

Get a sten and an M16.

Your least favorite kid gets the sten, your favorite gets the M16 and the other two get MACs.

Seems like the obvious solution.

I'd grab a Sten (most likely a tube gun) and I think Wison mp40 guns are close to 10K.

An M16 really is a must own item if one’s budget supports it.

I know many people who haven't handled them don't like them but BRP guns are fun SMG's.

Here is mine.  They all share the same tube receiver.  It's a takedown design.  I think the .45 version with the grease gun mags is my favorite.

Uzi and a sten, or maybe a Reising.

For under $10k, I would say Reising 50, Uzi, Mini Uzi, Sten..
I have a Reising which works great so I really enjoy shooting it. Note if you do get a Reising, you may need to file the firing pin to make it a inertia firing pin.. this prevents breakage of it.

That is super cool, I did not know you could buy different hosts like that.

I have an old 76/45 my trigger houseing is welded like the S&W76/760

My kids could always change, no doubt there. One is an adult, he is as into guns as I am and shoots better than I do (ah to be young again). The younger ones are all fascinated with guns and shooting, always pestering me to go to the range, and every time I open the door to the safe room it is like their radar goes off and some combination of the three of them appear.

I should probably have been a little more clear on my original post. I am absolutely buying these MGs to enjoy now. I’m just also considering down the road it would be nice for them each to get one. If someone doesn’t want one when that time comes the estate can sell it and that kid gets the money.



I really think one of them needs to be an M11A1 just because I have been fascinated with the little buzz gun since I was a kid watching early 80s action movies. The availability of the various uppers is icing on the cake. I should probably order that MAX-31K upper now.



It does, but M16s seem to be going for a minimum of about 18k now. “Real” M16s command substantially more.



I appreciate the history of the Reising but parts and magazine availability are keeping it off my list. I do really like the Uzi.  They seem to run $4-5k more than the Sten and various MACs. That isn’t insurmountable but it is a consideration.

IMO having a third MAC is overkill.
If indeed you have to stay <10K then a tube Sten, M1 carbine (one just sold at Midwest tactical for 9K) or MK760 are really the only practical options.

A S+W 76, UZI, Swedisk K tube etc  is a stretch and a converted AR15 is just a bit more.
IMO get a converted AR15 or off brand M16 and put the rest in ammo.
You have a long time to figure out how to solve the distribution problem.

What I have learned over the years is to forget about trying to please the kiddo or wife.
Please yourself. I know that sounds selfish but trying guess what makes others happy is a fool's errand. Often THEY dont know.

I have several MACs and for the most part they stay at home. One is a .380 MAC and its cool but a one trick pony.
An M16 and an UZI make it to the range every time.

Its nice to swap the lower to other people's AR15 upper so they can enjoy "their" AR15 in full auto.

My parents gave each of my siblings a car when they graduated college.  They asked me what car I wanted when I graduated and I said "S&H autosear in a 4 position burst pack" which at the time was cheaper than a new car ($10,500).  Now the options are more limited as people have already said, basically MACs, Reisings, and Stens.  There are some more esoteric guns that have sold in your price range recently but if you want spare parts they are a no go (Hotchkiss Portative M1910 sold for $6150 this May at Morphy's). The gunsmith on C&Rsenal and Anvil YouTube channels fixed one for the show and there are substantial issues with maintaining one.  I tend to prefer submachine guns over assault rifles but most of the interesting interwar guns are $20 to 40k.

I assume they got you the S&H sear for graduation?...

A few M11/9’s would be nice. Keeping them all in the MAC family would alleviate fighting when time comes to divvy up the MG’s.

Another option in your price range is the MK760.

Yep and now I have a couple of other MGs as well.  The prices just keep climbing...

Awesome story . I’m hoping that they keep climbing

I would not get a third mac, instead add some variety by getting a sten, sterling, reising, uzi, mini14, RLL, etc... sounds like it will be awhile before the MGs get passed on so you should be picking up something you enjoy shooting.

It was my understanding that the OP was looking to have somewhere between $30,000 to $40,000 in his collection and loved to shoot pistol caliber machineguns. The point I was trying to make was that I know of no more versatile pistol caliber than a HK sear and hosts. I listed off several that I own. For instance the SD. Because of the need for the porting of the barrel, a M10 can not use that system.



That was my point. OP, if you want to make your collection about your sons, there is nothing wrong with that. I would think that there is quite a while between now and passing on your collection. I simply mentioned that there were more possible options. Good luck with your choice.

Scott

Have you considered having your NFA items in a trust or an LLC?
Make all of your boys members with you, and all share in the ownership of the NFA items equally, whether 2, 3 or 4 or more items.

I bought a Sten a few years ago just for historical purposes,
I’m fascinated very simple guns. But to my surprise the Sten
is a hoot to shoot and easy to disassemble .
I also have reising and while it’s full of history and fun to
shoot. Parts and magazines are expensive and the gun
is difficult to disassemble. I’d buy the Sten again in a heart beat,  The Reising has been relegated to safe duty.

Great choice.  I don't think I've shot my Mac since buying my BRP (I have the Suomi and U9SF configs, planning to pickup the U45).

Pics from my last range trip.  The UZI, BRP, M2, or AM180 are all good choices (within/close to your target price range) to expand the collection:

Really nice collection.
BRP looks fun for what they are. I'm guessing the hate is they can be configured to clone other guns which of course can't really be compared.
I think the BRP are interesting design. Never shot one but wouldn't mind trying.

I was in a similar situation but with 3 kids.
So now I have M-11/9, M10-45, M11A1. Somehow ended up with an FNC also, I’ll leave it to whoever gives me a grandson first!
And my favorite Mac is the M11/a1 with either a 31k upper, or the slow fire bolt in stock form.

Reising are going for $6500 to $7500.  I'd love to find a MAC for $4k less.
As for magazines they vary from $100 to $200.  However keep a eye on Keystone since they do release their 30rd magazines. Last year they did a pre-sale and I got some.. Though it took a few months to get.  Also someone made a 3D print of an Uzi adapter so you can use uzi mags! Have the files, but don't have Uzi magazines to test it..

Those were actually two different thoughts:

-Parts and magazine availability for the Reising

-Cost of the Uzi $4-5k more than the MAC/STEN

I ended up deciding on a M11 .380 and a STEN.  USPS did me the favor of extending my wait time by a month by taking 27 days to deliver my form 4s to Oregon from North Carolina via "priority mail."  So, I'm only about six weeks into the wait instead of ten.

I got the small magwell M11 which was my preference despite more limited magazine availability.  I also purchased a MAX-31k to go with it so I will be using it primarily for 9mm anyway.  Even so, I managed to find a like new Baby Ghost .380 upper for it also so I can buzz out a mag of 380 in a second or so if I feel the need.

I'm actually more excited about the STEN just because it has character.  Also, parts availability is fantastic.  I've been collecting parts and magazines while I wait.  

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The M11 380 small frame is fine when you get Lage uppers. Those uppers were really a game changer for the MACs.

Looks like you have some fun stuff there.

I absolutely love my sten.

people say they're crude as if that matters it is a beautiful functioning weapon. mine chugs along like a little steam powered sewing machine.

I think I've had one jam and it was magazine related.


now you need to go get a spare barrel have it chopped to 3 inches and threaded so you can have a near flush mount suppressor.

No it's not that quiet but it looks bad ass and if you factor in the $40 barrel and 75 bucks to cut and thread you're into it for 125 with shipping

I’ve already picked up a couple of spare barrels, one is threaded already, though it is 5” rather than 3”. My only real concern with using suppressors on MGs is to make them quiet enough that the noise isn’t easily identifiable as machine gun fire from a distance off. I shoot the MGs at the family farm from time to time and I would rather not advertise to anyone in earshot that there are MGs there. I would also like to avoid any awkward visits from the County Sheriff’s Office if someone decides to report it.   Sure they are perfectly legal, but I would like to avoid interacting with a 23 year old jumpy deputy. So far that plan has been successful. Hopefully I can keep it successful when the STEN and M11 are in the mix.

3" was guessamate.

You can build a used tire suppresser for the farm

A great thread - What make is your Sten that runs great?  Is it a C&R Sten or remanufactured from a registered tube?

I love Stens for simplistic efficiency history and unique looks -  but was skeptical to get into one as my first SMG as most units were tube kit guns and didn't want a lemon.  I suppose one could rebuild one with effort and an abundance of every spare part for $250.

I'm not even taken possession of my first SMG and now considering a second!

Really like the look of that short M2 carbine.  How does it run?

It is a tube gun. Made by Interport Inc. in Utah. I couldn’t find much on them but what I could find was positive. I guess I will get to see how it runs in 6-9 months.

I have a York MK2 that runs like a sewing machine, Sten guns are  almost 100 percent reliable with good mags , proper ejector placement and good ammo. If a sten doesn’t work it’s the mags or ejector almost every time.

I’m converting my MK2 to a MK6 soon, the great great grandpappy of the MP5sd

Something you might want to look into is the CF(W) tungsten bolt.  The latest generation can be set up in the small magwell M11 with .380 and gives a much slower ROF than the standard steel bolt.




Personally, I think you are going in the wrong direction. My cousins both owned machineguns and lived in a very rural area. One had a Riesing and a M11/NINE. The other had a Colt M16A1 and West Hurley '28 Thompson. They would call the local Sheriff's office to let them know when they were shooting at their homes. Imagine being that 23 year old going to a call of automatic gun fire and doesn't know what the situation is. How stressful would that be? My cousins would call as a courtesy that everything was legal the first time. A deputy did come out that first time. A quick check of the Form 4 (my cousin's M16 was the first and the sound of rifle rounds carries more than piston rounds) and everything was good. My cousins would always invite the deputies to come by and shoot a mag or two if they wanted. Rarely did a deputy come by and even more rarely did they fire anything. The Sheriff's Dept did make a point to thank my cousins to thank them for calling. Then if the Sheriff's Dept. received a call, they knew what was going on.  Much lower stress for everyone.

Of course, your guns, your decision. Hopefully there will be rifle caliber options for the Mac style family of firearms. To me calling just to let LE know, makes for much less stress for everyone. Congratulations on the purchase.

Scott

I started with an M11/Nine that I Lage’d and then picked up an S&W76 because I wanted something more unique and different. Turned out I really grew to love the 76, it’s robust, smooth and very quiet suppressed.

I have a BRP STG U9 and it is great.  I can’t recommend it more highly for a cheaper MG.