Apologies if this has been discussed before. On SBR tax stamp that was submitted with a 14 inch barrel what do you need to do to pit an 11.5 barrel on it. Research has brought up amend form 1 via letter same as caliber, new tax stamp, and do nothing.

I'd like to know what I need to do to stay legal.

Thanks.

As far as I understand it, you can do what you like after it is an SBR.  There may be some issue that I am not aware of if you do not use the 14" barrel when you make the SBR.

For example, I have a 10.5" .223 and an 8.5" .300blk.  I got the stamp with the 10.5" listed but I can swap uppers as desired.

Remove 14" barrel. Install 11.5" barrel. Done.
The NFA paperwork documents the condition the NFA item was in when it was made or transferred. There is no requirement that the barrel length, or caliber remains the same. If you later sell it, the next person's Form 4 should reflect the configuration in which it will be transferred. Questions might be asked if it is a different configuration than what is on your paperwork, but those should be easily resolved.

There is much misunderstanding of the NFA out there. As a result,  many people will restore an NFA item to the configuration listed on the current tax form, when transferring it to another entity.

This:

But you can also sell it later as a rifle or a pistol without NFA transfer if you configure it as such.

If you did this it would then be a good idea to write a letter to the ATF and have them remove it from the registry.

I have several uppers I run on my SBR. 5.56,300,22lr etc.

I don't believe that  an SBR can ever legally be a pistol, since the NFA paperwork documents it being made/manufactured into/as a rifle. Making a handgun from an SBR would result in it being an SBR, as it was " made from a rifle", even if the SBR was a handgun before it was an SBR. Just another stupid permutation of a stupid,  unconstitutional law.

What does it matter that it's "documented"? Why do you think it's illegal?

I can make a pistol into a rifle, then make that same rifle back into a pistol.

I hope I am wrong,  and you are right. Unfortunately, until the T/C case, the ATF maintained that you couldn't go pistol > rifle > pistol. Even after the T/C case, they initially said the court's ruling applied only to the specific firearm in the case. Yes, now you can do pistol > rifle > pistol. You can't do rifle > pistol. I believe that the ATF would view KitBuilder's Form 1 SBR as a rifle manufactured by KitBuilder, and any configuration of it afterwards would be a "firearm made from a rifle".

I don't believe that I would ever remove an NFA firearm from the registry anyway, as that is a waste of  $200.

This is my understanding:

It's already registered as an SBR.  I don't know that the law requires you to notify BATFE of any permanent changes in the configuration.  BATFE does request you notify them of permanent changes, but I don't think that's the law.  For my part, I would probably notify them, first by calling and asking them this question, and then sending the requested notification in a manner they specify.

The SBR is in a government registry at this point, and nothing is really lost by being cooperative with BATFE, and it basically costs you nothing.


Nevermind.  I see that you are talking about an NFA firearm that you've received a stamp for, but have not made yet, and want to make the NFA firearm with a barrel length other than what the stamp was filled out for.  I don't know the rules on this one.  Worst case is you could still build it with a 14" barrel, change config, and notify BATFE of config change after the NFA firearm is made.

Hmm...

The real question, and one we've never gotten an answer to, is that once you make an SBR does it FOREVER erase all or part of it's previous Title I status?

A good case can be made that if you SBR a pistol, you ought to be able to convert it back to a pistol, as the T/C case allows.

Another very good case can be made that once you SBR it, you have forever changed it's future status to "being made from a rifle", and taking the stock off it but keeping a short barrel doesn't erase the fact that it's "made from a rifle", regardless of it's pre-SBR status as a pistol.

But please, folks, don't write a fucking letter.

Unfortunately I agree with this interpretation.

You can make an SBR into a Title I rifle, but making an SBR into a Title I pistol, is a very grey area.

I also agree that no one should ask a question that they already don't know the answer to.  Don't write a letter.  No one will benefit from it.

ATF has opined that you can take the short upper off of a registered lower and sell the lower as a Title I lower.  This begs the question, how does the buyer know that it was ever a Title II rifle.

See why this NFA crap is so stupid.

ATF has repeatedly stated an SBR can be returned to Title I status.

Yes, but they haven't said anything about returning it to a Title I pistol.

An SBR is a subset of rifle.

So pistol to {SBR} (a subset of) {Rifle} and back to pistol would be ok. Right?

Bottom line... If you are ever having to have this discussion with ATF you did something else that is far worse.

But it is good to workout where we stand.

So... does this apply even if the "original configuration" is just the lower receiver? No barrel so no length or caliber applies, right?
I came to this sub-forum partly to ask this: When you're waiting for your SBR to be approved, does the part (or whole weapon depending on the configuration you have it in at the time) have to be held by the dealer while you're waiting?
I hear people saying how their suppressor or SBR is in jail... I assume that means it's being held until the ATF approval comes through, correct?

I was not aware of that. Interesting. Seems like an easy to unload an SBR if, for whatever reason, you had to. Figure, the person buying it has to go through the same process you went through anyway. If the person really wants the gun you're selling to be an SBR, convert yours to a pistol or LBR, sell it that way, and let them put it in jail after the fact, right?

You might want to start a whole new thread (after reading some FAQs), but I'll try to help you out...

Let's assume the NFA firearm is a AR-15 SBR. Typically people either make their own SBRs using a Form 1, or they buy/order an existing SBR through an NFA dealer (FFL/SOT). The receiver is held by whoever submitted the NFA form. If a person (end user) submitted it, they might be holding a stripped receiver or complete lower they recently bought, or they may have a complete 16"(+) AR that they've had for years, or they might have an AR pistol. They need a receiver make, model, and a serial number to list on the Form 1, along with their desired barrel length and caliber. "MULTI" is not acceptable. They must list how they plan to configure it.

If a FFL/SOT submitted the form, then there is already an existing SBR, and they are transferring it to a buyer. The buyer cannot take possession until the transfer form is approved. This is what people are talking about when they say their item is "in NFA jail". They can go visit it at the FFL. Some dealers with ranges will even let them use it there (as technically an employee of the FFL is in possession), but the buyer cannot bring it home until approval.

The guys making new SBRs on Form 1 cannot assemble the SBR until approval, nor should they have the SBR parts in their possession while waiting (unless they have a lawful use for each part). For example, if I own an AR pistol and AR rifle, then it's OK for me to possess spare short barrels, stocks, and receiver extensions. So technically I could have all the parts ready to assemble the new SBR. If that's my one and only AR (the stripped receiver), then no.

I always build new SBRs as pistols first, which is very easy to do (just add the stock last). ATF has stated that a standard carbine receiver extension (buffer tube) is acceptable on a pistol build.

Now if I own a SBR, we live in the same state, and I want to sell it to you, then I would sign and send a Form 4 to transfer it directly to you. (This is assuming you want it as a SBR).
Or I could pull the stock off and sell it to you as a Title I (GCA) pistol immediately, because it wouldn't be a SBR anymore. I prefer to send ATF's NFA Branch a letter stating I removed my SBR from the purview of the NFA and sold it as a Title I pistol, however this is not required.

If you wanted it to be a SBR again, you'd have to start all over, as if you had just bought a brand new pistol (except you'd have my ugly engraving on it, unless I had chosen to engrave my barrel instead). That's why nobody buys used AR SBRs.

No, you aren't limited to what you list on the form. That's just what you're requesting permission to make. Once you make a SBR in that initial listed configuration, you may reconfigure it however you want.

If you make a permanent change, NFA Branch requests that you notify them in writing, however this isn't a requirement. Changes to ARs are not generally considered to be permanent, because they're so modular.

If you ever decide to sell it as a SBR, it would be best if you did one of the following:

A) Sell it in a configuration reflecting the lengths/caliber on the form.

or

B) Have previously sent an update letter reflecting the configuration you're transferring it in now.

No hard and fast rule there. It just removes a potential complication in the transfer.

I like to build pistols first, just because it keeps my options open.

Yeah, and a pistol made from a rifle is by definition subject to the NFA.  Sure, you've got your stamp for the SBR, but can it ever be a Title I pistol again?  That's the question.  You sell the stripped lower as Title I (perfectly legal) and the buyer builds it into a pistol, he's got right there and unregistered SBR.

Not if it was a pistol first.