Looking at SBRing a 10/22 Takedown. My thought is to have a charger Takedown barrel on it once I get the stamp back. The Takedown mechanism would make switching between nfa and title 1 config very easy.

Want to know if there are any legal issues with my idea here. I would engrave my name and city/state on the charger barrel instead of the receiver. The factory barrel would have no engraving beyond the factory engraving. Is there any issue with having your engraving on the barrel instead of the receiver?

Second, would there be any issue removing the charger barrel, attaching the factory 18.5" barrel, then traveling with it in Title 1 configuration (assuming I didn't carry the charger barrel with me) through jurisdictions that don't allow SBRs (or if I don't have a 5320.20)?

Nope and Nope

You are GTG for both.

More weird issues that were probably never even thought of. I was under the impression that removing engraving was a no no and don't remember reading that it only needed to be present while in NFA configuration.

Is there a reason you don't want to just engrave the receiver?

It is probably a stupid statement on my part, but... he does not want to and does not have to.

479.102 How must firearms be identified?

(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

None of that says engraving can be removed nor that it only requires engraving when assembled in NFA form. I am well aware that the barrel can be engraved but usually that is done on guns where the barrel wont be removed. For instance I see it a lot on 870's and 500's.

I'm not arguing or trying to be an A**,

Are you familiar with the ATF opinion letters that say that you can remove a firearm from the purview of the NFA simply by replacing the "short" barrel with a barrel of 16+ inches and not only can you move it across state lines without a 5320.20, but you can even sell it without notification  to ATF Martinsburg as a Title I firearm?

If it is not in a configuration that would place it under the purview of the NFA, it is not under the purview of the NFA.  Putting a 16+ inch barrel on a SBR means that it is not a SBR and the marking requirement of 27 CFR 479.102 are no longer applicable.

Yes I am familiar with both. I am also familiar with the fact that the engraving is required to make the gun and that removing engraving is not allowed on a traditional firearm. There is no wording that says it is only necessary while in NFA configuration.

Like most of this bullshit I am sure you would never get called on it but that doesn't make it legal. It is exactly stuff like this that makes me hate our stupid laws.

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They are very fun to shoot. I engraved the receiver...you have to really look for it to find it. Either way, the barrel or receiver, you’re gtg.

How about this then: get the charger barrel and the factory Title 1 barrel engraved with my name, city, and state.  Then it's present on both, and there is no configuration that does not have the engraving.

This is kind of what I'm trying to avoid.  it's supposed to be 'easily visible'.  I have another thread going on this, but there's not a lot of real estate on a 10/22 receiver for engraving, and both my full name and my city and state are about a mile long each .  Thus my question about engraving name, city and state on the barrel.

Edit: Your pic is pretty much what I'm going for.  I'm planning to use an AGP folding stock, and I've contacted Ben at AGP and he thinks he can fit two handguards to accept the Magpul optic mount.  I much prefer to have optics anchored to the barrel rather than the receiver of any takedown firearm.

I have no idea. I was trying to look at it from what I consider to be a stricter  interpretation. I’m convinced nothing would happen if you did what you proposed in your OP but whether or not it’s legal is a different question.

You guys are really making me want to get off my ass and build a sbr 10/22 or two. Those things look awesome.

Other than the serial number (which we are not discussing here) what federal code or regulation prevents you from removing the markings on a Title I firearm?

I’ll try to get a more current pic of my set up. It has the Magpul optic barrel mount now. You’ll see when I say you have to really look for the engraving too.

This is where you're wrong.

Engraving may be removed on Title I firearms (except for the serial number). There is no federal regulation preventing removing/altering anything but the serial number.

You were already quoted the NFA engraving requirements applicable to Title II firearms, which are obviously more strict.
Once registered as a NFA firearm, the required markings must be present, and cannot be altered or removed. It's fine if they're on the barrel (except for the serial number).

If placed in a Title I status (even temporarily) those Title II marking requirements are no longer applicable. Therefore a 16(+)" unmarked barrel is perfectly acceptable.

Now there could be some state/local laws preventing removal of existing firearm markings, but that would be above and beyond the federal requirements.

I’m confused as you say I’m wrong but then state they can’t be altered or removed. Taking the barrel off certainly seems like removing them to me.

If you remove the SBR barrel, then replace it with a Title I barrel, you're OK. You don't need the extra Title II markings at that point because it's a Title I firearm again.

They can not be removed while the gun is in a Title II configuration.  As soon as you remove the short barrel, it is no longer under the purview of the NFA and the Title II markings are not required.

If you took off the short barrel, with the markings, and replaced it with different (but unmarked) <16 inch barrel then you would be in violation.

The NFA never envisioned the modular firearm systems that exist today...  But, thank you Thompson-Center Arms Company.

Can either of you show something that says it’s ok to remove the engraving?

Your reasoning makes sense but once again when looking at the law I haven’t seen anything to support that opinion.

The law normally tells you what you CAN'T do, not what you CAN do.

FYI.... unless your trust name rivals the length of War and Peace, I don't think you'll have any problem finding enough room on the receiver.

Filing as individual.  I'd guesstimate my full name is about 3 times the length of your trust there.  City and State at least double the length of yours, probably more than that.

Edit: Which does look like it would still fit, IMO.  I contacted THSF by email yesterday, he thinks he can do it fine on the receiver.

I don't think you'll have a problem fitting it, I'm sure your engraver could tell you for sure before doing it. If nothing else, you could make a little notch in the stock to expose more of the receiver.

ETA: didn't see your edit when I replied. Hope it works out for you, my SBR 10/22 TD is one of my favorite guns.

I looked into this a while back for an SBR Uzi model A. Engrave the short barrel and leave the rest alone. Kitbuilder and Title are correct from my research. On the other hand a Ruger takedown is not exactly a collectors piece so who cares if it's engraved. Tar heel can make it so fine it's crazy. They did my Z5p Sbr in the stock channel and you have to look for it.