I’m out of my league with this one and don’t have the time right now to do the research myself. So, I’m looking for counsel...

I know only the most basic facts about Thompsons but would very much like to change that should I happen upon a keeper. So, I’m here for an education. I genuinely appreciate any helpful suggestions and comments to help make sure I don’t find myself with my ass in the jackpot.

Bottom line: What do I need to know before I consider and possibly buy? Thanks.

Specifics: What would you look for? What would you buy? What questions do you ask sellers? Where is your go-to source for info on them? What you look for? What do you look for in order to know to avoid it? What accounts for the $18k difference between a 1921 Colt and a 1928 Colt? Which mags are best? If I want the cheapest Tommy for the range, what am I considering? Which replacement parts are necessary to stock? How fun is it to shoot? Are they appreciating at the same rate(s) as the rest MGs?

Go to machinegunboards.com

Read everything you can.

ALL of your questions will be answered.

They are the #1 site for Thompsons.

*I will preface my post with the disclaimer that there are folks on Machinegunboard.com that will make my knowledge appear to be a rank of amateur at best.

That said I went through the same process about 3 to 4 years ago when I decided I had a Thompson hole in my collection that needed to be filled and what should I buy as there is a lot of options out there in the Thompson marketplace.

At a high level there are essentially four types of Thompsons out there, with multiple sub-groups within each category.

Colt Thompsons:

These are the original 15,000ish Thompsons made by Colt.   In general these guns are the most highly regarded for quality, panache, and historical significance.

Pros:
- High perceived quality (nickled internal parts, excellent machining and polishing, high quality wood, and deep beautiful bluing, etc.)
- Colt name recognition
- Classic Thompson profile (Lyman "ladder" rear sight, vertical grip, finned barrel, 21/28 receiver profile with top cocking knob)

Cons:
- Most expensive ($35 to $60K is where most guns fall)
- Many original parts are unobtanium or extremely expensive should you damage an original Colt part (bulged barrel, etc.)
- Damaging an original part or marring the finish will significantly detract from the guns value.
- May not be the best idea for somebody who wants a “shooter” (unless you want to find a Colt gun that is just a Colt receiver gun and where all the other parts were already swapped with WW2 parts)

There are two general sub-variations on Colt Thompsons

- Original 1921 versions that have all of the original 1921 internal parts including the actuator and spring (with two sub variations the 1921 sans compensator and the 1921AC with compensator)
- Colts that were upgraded with 1928 internals that slow the rate of fire (with two sub variations being overstamped where the 21 was restamped to 28 making the 8 look like a B and ones that were not overstamped retaining the original markings)


US Military WW2 era Thompsons:

These are guns made during WW2 for the US government, Allies, and to a lesser extent US law enforcement sales.

Pros:
- High quality of manufacture
- Lots of spare parts support and parts kits available
- Reduced cost ($20K to $35K for most guns)
- Make for good shooters

Cons:
- Not a Colt Thompson
- Finish varies on these guns from blued to dulite black to park.
- Could be a dewat/rewat. (deactivated/reactivated war trophy)
- Depending upon the model and gun may not have the full classic Thompson “look”
- M1s and M1As don’t take drums

There are two high level categories in the US Military manufacturing hierarchy.

1928s:

- 1928s were made by both factories (Savage and AOC Bridgeport)
- There really isn’t a difference between a Savage and Bridgeport guns other than the markings.
- 1928s slowly morphed over the duration of the war to reduce complexity and cost, losing the Lyman rear site, the knurled selectors, barrel fins, vertical grip in favor of horizontal, etc.  
- These changes over time make the later 1928s  look less like the quintessential “Thompson” and pricing will usually reflect that depending upon the feature sets included.
- There is one additional sub-category of Savage 1928s that are called the “Savage Commercials” which were initial run guns designated for LE sales and had a nicer finish on them and come with a pricing premium.

M1s and M1As:

- Both factories made again made M1s and then M1As are part of the product complexity and cost reduction initiatives.
- I am not aware of any significant difference between Savage or Bridgeport M1s.
- M1s and M1As dispense with the complicated blish lock system in favor of straight blowback. (M1As have a fixed firing pin arrangement as well)
- The stock on M1s are not quick release like 1921s and 28s.
- M1s and M1A don’t natively accept drums (although some guns and or drums have been modified to work)
- Selectors are the non-knurled “stick” variety
- Changing handle was relocated to the right side.
- All have smooth barrels
- Rear sight is the "L" or "Winged" peep site vs. Lyman.


West Hurleys:

These guns were made by the new AOC in West Hurley NY in the 70s and early 80s.   Some folks consider them “clones” of the original Thompsons from Colt and WW2 contractors.
Quality is not as highly regarded as Colt or WW2 guns and they may need new or replacement parts and/or receiver repairs to run correctly.  Westies that have gone through a Paul Krogh blueprinting and repair will command more money.

Westies come in both 1928 and M1 variations, but the 1928s are much more ubiquitous in the marketplace.

Pros:
- In general they have a nice deep blued finish
- Reduced cost ($17 to 22K)
- May make a good shooter assuming they work.

Cons:
- Softer receiver metal (with limited reports of cracks in the rear of the receiver attributed to this softer receiver composition)
- Original internals including the pilot buffer are not up to par and need to be replaced.
- Many 1928 WHs have dimensional issues that are difficult and expensive to fix where the blish lock slots were cut incorrectly.  (the M1s seem to have less issues being they don’t have the complicated blish lock slots in the receiver that the 1928s do)


The last group is everything else.

- There were one off receivers made from scratch by C2s like Pearl or Phil Ordnance.
- There are guns assembled from leftover WW2 parts and receivers by Numrich Arms Corp in the 50s and early 60s.
- True “reweld” receivers.  (not just a weld or plug removed from a fully intact dewat receiver but a gun made from cut up receiver pieces)

There are also a million little things that affect value within each tranche of Thompson hierarchy.  Original finish percentage, refinished, restamp or marking removals, little inspector proof marks, "Tommy Gun" marking, special historical provenance, matching numbered parts, etc.   True Thompson aficionados will debate over these little permutations, their respective rarity,  and their reflective effect on value like a gemologist inspecting a rare uncut diamond.

My personal take is that the sweet spot for somebody who wants a “classic” Thompson look, that is high quality gun, and can be shot without significant worry is a WW2 manufacture 1928.   These guns will have the high quality receivers of WW2 production, have plenty of spare parts so if something is damaged it is replaceable without a significant dent in value, are extremely reliable as shooters, and ultimately cosmetically look like what most people think a Thompson should look like and natively take the drum mags.

That said there is a subset of folks who really prefer the M1s and believe they are a product improvement over the 1921s and 28s.   There is absolutely nothing wrong with an M1s and they probably very well are more reliable under military conditions than a more complicated 1921/28.   Ultimately its really comes down to personal taste if you want a "Saving Private Ryan" Thompson or a "Public Enemies" Thompson..... as nobody is using their transferable Thompson for anything other than collecting and range shooting.

If you are on a significant budget the West Hurley M1s can be a good deal as they don’t have as many dimensional challenges as the WH 1928s (since they have no blish lock cuts) and can be had for a reduced cost because of the West Hurley quality concerns in the overall marketplace.  USGI M1 parts are available to swap into the WH M1 receivers as needed if they have functional issues.

I looked for a year or so before I found my Savage 1928 at auction that had everything I wanted (lyman sight, finned barrel, knurled selectors, matching numbers upper/lower, dulite finish vs park) and at a price I thought was a good deal.  Only thing I didn't get was the vertical front grip, but I ultimately swapped out the horizontal foregrip for an original WW2 vertical grip at the cost of ~$600 and have been completely happy with my choice.

Hopefully this helps and as the other poster suggested, go to machinegunboards.com and read up on everything you can.

As to your specific questions:

What would you look for? What would you buy? I would buy a WW2 1928 Thompson.  I would consider a rewat depending upon how it was done or a matching NAC import gun.

What questions do you ask sellers?  Standard questions....  Is this a reweld, has it been refinished, how does it shoot, do the upper and lower numbers match.  Honestly there are a bunch of questions I would ask depending upon what you want to buy.  Questions of a seller of a Colt Thompson are completely different that a seller of a West Hurley.  (for example on a Colt you are asking if the internals are all original, on Westie you want to know if all the guts have been replaced)

Where is your go-to source for info on them? Machinegunboards.com and/or buy Tracie Hills book "The Ultimate Thompson Book"

What you look for? What to you look for in order to know to avoid it? It really depends upon the gun.  What a buyer of a Colt looks for may be completely different than a West Hurley buyer.  If you can tell us what you are interested in (Colt, WW2, 28 vs. M1, etc.), it would better help tell you what of significance to look out for.

What accounts for the $18k difference between a 1921 Colt and a 1928 Colt? I dont know if there is a $18K difference all other things being equal.  That said overstamp guns generally seem to have more wear and tear potentially going through the US mil or LE agency than Colt guns sold through commercial market.  High end Colt collectors want all original parts and the 1921s are the true original Thompsons, to become a 28,  some of the original 21 parts have to  be replaced.  Of course the receiver also has been marred via the "2B" overstamping as well.

Which mags are best? I have no issues with any type of USGI Thompson mag (in good condition) I have ever used.

If I want the cheapest Tommy for the range, what am I considering? You didnt list a price range, but as mentioned above I think the WW2 1928s represent the best value.

Which replacement parts are necessary to stock? Thompsons are pretty robust and parts are readily available, so maybe a buffer or two and some recoil springs.  Worst case just buy a readily available parts kit and have one of everything.

How fun is it to shoot? I don't think they are all that great to shoot.  They are really heavy for what they are, the cheek-weld is odd, trigger pull is heavy, the sights are not the best, and the control ergonomics leave much to be desired........but I understand I am in the minority in this opinion.  Don't get me wrong Thompsons are great guns to own for a myraid of factor besides their shootability.  They are more like owning a classic Ferrari.  Great history, cool mechanics, iconic brand recognition, and old world craftsmanship...but virtually nobody buys a Ferrari 250GT to take to track days.

Are they appreciating at the same rate(s) as the rest MGs? Generally yes, I would put Thompsons in the middle of the pack in terms of appreciation.  The M1s dont seen to have appreciated quite as fast as the 1928s over the past couple years.

Good luck on your Thompson search and if you have any other questions I am happy to try and answer them.

Jbntex, wow, that’s exactly what I needed and is worth a sticky. Thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough description. Many thanks.

Join machinegunboards.com as others have said.  I'm michaelkih over there.

Also, if you plan to actually shoot the gun a lot, the Colt Thompson is probably not what you want.  I know that many people still shoot theirs, but if you have an all original gun, and mess up a part or bulge the barrel, you just wrecked it IMO.  I own an early Colt 1921A with it's original finish and it's original and matching C drum, and it's the one machine gun I own, that I have not shot, and I'm not sure if I ever will shoot it.  I'm glad I own it, and luckily have plenty of other machine guns to shoot, so it really doesn't matter, but still.....

You can swap parts and stuff out to shoot it, but swapping the barrel is something a professional really needs to do etc etc.  Not worth it to me, plus the barrel may never go back on the same exact way.  Others will disagree, but these are just my opinions as an actual owner of the gun.

With a military or West Hurley (If running right) Thompson you can shoot away all you want, and swap out military surplus parts as needed if they ever wear or get messed up.  Enjoy the hunt, and GOOD LUCK!

My $0.02.

Obligatory picture of my Colt Thompson.....

Yep, great write-up - definitely tack-up worthy.

I have an Auto Ordnance Bridgeport NAC gun .......... all GI, but put together/registered after Numrich bought out Auto Ordnance or who ever owned the company at the time, completed guns, receivers, and parts.

Any of what I would add or change to what "jbntex" has written would likely be considered pedantic, so I'll keep to one more comment:  If considering a WWII era 1928 and/or M1/M1A1 Thompson, I suggest getting a copy of "American Thunder" (currently at the third edition) by Frank Iannamico.

Best of luck with your pursuit, and enjoy many safe, pleasant, memorable experiences with whatever you decide to obtain.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

And the WH M1 is C&R eligible

As the WH M1 was only made for a brief time in 1985 and 1986 before the May, '86 ban, IRRC only 609 were produced.  Due to the scarcity, C & R status was successfully petitioned many years ago.

ETA: 609 production number confirmed, and C & R status was granted in 2003 or 2004.

Email incoming bigbore.