User Panel
Posted: 4/24/2018 10:40:21 PM EDT
Would you recommend on your dominant eye?
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I'm new to this stuff, but I would think it would depend on what you're doing and what you want to be prepared for, and if you're talking NV or thermal.
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Well this is something you might have to figure out for yourself. Initially, I used my dominate eye. But I was using it as a spotting scope, much as I would use binos during the day. I would stop, take a knee, and scan the area as far as I could see through the bush, and then drive on. The "wall of green" concept as explained by Plaster and others. It was pouch-mounted (sometimes in conjunction with a neck lanyard) and used basically as hand-held monocular. So naturally, I was using the dominate eye. But then.
I discovered head-mounted NV. Woo Hoo. When you are patrolling with these things on, you may find you develop different techniques. For instance I now like to run it on my non-dominant eye. I have found that for me, this just works, because the dominant eye is still in the game; it wants to run things, however the non-dominant eye gets a vote as well, seeing as it has an enhanced picture, so my brain will meld these two images together (if you control the gain). I also run an off-set from my face, without any "eyecup", so I still have significant peripheral vision, in both eyes. And by tilting my head up slightly, I can see very nicely through both (unaided) eyes. So you might have to experiment a bit and see what works for you. |
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It also depends on your gears. I started out using lasers on both my rifle and the pistol, so using a mono on my non dominant eye was not an issue. Since then I started using a rmr on the pistol instead of a laser. I tried, but couldn't pick up the dot. Now I use a mono config with my dominant eye.
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Quoted:
Explain to the OP. Most everyone would run it on non dominant eye to keep dominant eye focused on the optic reticle or laser. In fact, I rarely ever see it the way you advocate. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would. In fact, I rarely ever see it the way you advocate. I got pretty adept at using it with my non-dominant eye, I just started walking around my neighborhood and the hills behind me with it, and then I started dry fire drills in my house and backyard. Practice made it feel completely natural. Isn't there a Nick Cage movie where he's an Apache pilot and has trouble using his non-dominant eye with the helmet mounted HUD so they rig up a periscope with mirrors and drive a jeep around the airfield? |
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I put my monocular over my non-dominate eye so my dominate eye stays night adjusted in case I need to go white light and use my optic.
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When I first "graduated" from the AN/PVS-7 to the AN/PVS-14, like most, my "natural" instinct, like many was to start with the monocular over my dominant eye.
Then I "got wise," and learned from those who had more experience than I, and started running my NVD over my non-dominant eye. For a long time, I assumed that running your monocular non-dom was a sign of being "in the know." Later on, I "graduated" again to binos, and, in the interests of full disclosure, have never really looked back. I'm not someone who prefers a monocular to binoculars under any circumstances, though for a variety of reasons, I try to maintain my "currency" with the use of monoculars, as that is what the vast majority of folks, both military and civilian are using. With that, I have since come back around to preferring the dominant eye for a standard monocular (fusion systems like the AN/PSQ-20 are a different matter, in large part due to their form factor). In part, this has to do with my increased use of high-rise optics and passive engagement for which I've become something of an evangelist, but not entirely. Somewhat related--pistol mounted RDS too (in and of itself, a "passive" method of NV aiming) has played a part in that as has already been pointed out, but again, while a compelling reason, it is still not the whole reason. Rather, it has more to do with the way the brain and eyes work: Getting things out of the way, humans use vision as their primary sense, that is why NV is such a potent technology, it allows you to see, and see better when others cannot. With that, most people have a fairly strong eye dominance, wherein the majority of sensory information comes from their dominant eye--the non-dominant eye primarily provides depth perception, supplemental information, and peripheral vision, this can be easily seen when using iron sights with both eyes open and focusing on the front sight--as you focus on the front sight and align it with your target, both of your eyes perceive it as aligned. Close your non-dominant eye, and your front sight will remain aligned with the target. Close your dominant eye, and you'll be nowhere close. When applied to the use of a monocular, and given that sight is your primary sense and your brain is already conditioned to receive the majority of its information about the environment from your dominant eye, if it's dark enough to use/need night vision, why would you not want your dominant eye to see better? Your non-dominant/dark adapted eye will still give you the supplemental information that it's always giving you, but you will be getting the majority of your sensory information from your dominant eye, as usual, and as desired--the discussion elsewhere in this subforum about "do specs really matter" has some bearing here, too--many people's non-dominant eyes are in fact, a little "worse" than their dominant eyes. Again, if it's dark enough to need night vision, why wouldn't you want your best eye to be getting the best information? "But what about mixed light or if the lights go on?" The logic behind putting your NV monocular over your non-dominant eye is usually something along the lines of the idea that somehow your natural eye dominance combined with the NV will "even out," that your dominant eye can see better in the dark than your non-dominant eye, and will somehow provide you "better" information while unaided, while your non-dominant eye "needs the boost" when conditions are darker. This "compromise" may sound good in theory, but in practice, I've become increasingly skeptical that it's true. First of all, while it's not something I recommend you try often, especially with personally owned NVDs--you can still see through your monocular in a brightly lit room. Moreover, you can still aim with an IR laser or even passively through your optic with the lights on. Is it good for your tube? No. But if and when that time comes, your tube life is probably the least of your worries. Second, when conditions are bright enough for you to see without the NV aid, then your brain will automatically "switch" to the eye that can see better, i.e., your non-dominant eye, in fact, the practice of using your monocular over your non-dominant eye "proves" this, when it's dark enough, you'll automatically use the eye that can see better, meaning you're not going to be missing much if the lights suddenly come on, or if you're in a mixed light environment that's bright enough that your non-dominant eye is getting better information than your dominant eye. Furthermore, in a lit environment, looking through your monocular is not dissimilar from looking through a unity powered RDS--yes, the housing of the monocular is "technically" obstructing your dominant eye's vision, but if you keep both eyes open, the housing "disappears," as the supplementary information is filled in by your non-dominant eye, the effect is less a "being blind in one eye," as something of a stereoscope or old-school 3-D glasses, where you're seeing everything a little "greenish" (or slightly "bluish," but even less noticeable if you're using WP tubes) but your brain is already collating the information provided by your two eyes, so your primary sensory input is that of "true" color. The net result is that you don't really see any "worse" in a mixed light/bright light situation with your monocular over your dominant eye, but you see better in "true" dark by not fighting your natural instinct to want to use your dominant eye as your primary visual input versus trying to "split the difference" between your dominant and non-dominant eye and fighting your own brain. The crux the issue again goes to: if it's dark enough to use NV, why wouldn't you want to see as well as you can, rather than trying to compromise between your better and worse eye? Your non-dominant eye will still give you all the supplemental information it's used to giving you, while your dominant eye is getting the NV "assist" so you can see better, without having to fight your brain to use your primary sense, and if it gets bright enough, your brain will do all the work for you, and in the critical moment, you probably won't even notice that the lights went on, after which point you can make the decision as to whether you're going to go back into the dark, or if it's time to flip the NODs up. Plus, you can take advantage of passive NV aiming capabilities, as well as maintaining day/night consistency with your pistol presentation if you're using an RDS on your pistol. ~Augee |
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That's really one of the best responses I've ever read on here.
Well said. And duly noted. |
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Little off-topic but related. I have found that a lot of guys get married to their T,T,P's. It's like an ego thing or whatever. Once they announce a certain stance on a subject, they fight like hell to defend it, rather than consider all the options. It's like if they admit they're may be a better way, or just another way, it will shrink their dick, or at least make them look wishy-washy.
You see a lot of this on line. Guys defending a position, just because they feel threatened by another opinion. And you get a lot of jokers who just stir the pot, for shit and giggles, rather than actually trying to add to the discourse. If you look at what Augee is saying here, there is a perfect example of a guy who views things as a continuous process, rather than a point stuck in time. T,T,P's evolve over time. I can certainly vouch for that, being a black boot, cold war marine. The shit I was taught at Quantico is so out-dated now; only a nit wit would cling to it (although there are those that still do). But anyways, you can take a look at the progression that a current war-fighter went through and see how the process evolved. That's the take-away here. I only mentioned this to say the answer to the OP, like many things, is a moving target. You take a look at what you need to do, and how others are handling it, and you update yourself as necessary. If you're just jumping into the fray, consider what's being said, analyze it, and try some shit out for yourself. And maybe be not being afraid to admit there's a better way to do something, and changing. Not calling anyone out for doing that here; merely pointing out how someone is doing the exact opposite, and why we should all strive to do the same, IMHO. |
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I would recommend mounting in accordance with the dominant eye
The best reason for this is fairly straightforward: your eyes don't see, your brain does. Your eyes simply gather data for your brain, and your dominant eye is the one that gathers information that is more in-line with how your brain interprets that data It is intuitive, your dominant eye is the one you use for everything that you deem important. If you're using your dominant eye to use night vision and aim as well, that's best solved with a technical solution. If this solution is geared towards real-world use, I would recommend a laser for shorter and faster engagements, and a dedicated imager for slower and longer engagements If the solution is for recreational use, I would recommend whatever you can afford |
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I must say that I will save Augee's response and use it as the best analysis of the dominant/non-dominant eye dilemma that I've seen. I prefer to use monoculars on my slightly dominant eye but my personal preference should be ignored due to my ambidextrous personality.
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Always like seeing good discourse here and Augee’s input (when did you become TNVC_Augee?) here is certainly valuable learned suggestions.
I have never tried binos and God knows i’d Like them, but I like having that other eye seeing ambient and noticing stuff that I would only notice with at least one unaided eye. I am right handed and just slightly right eye dominant. I Ihave always run the monocular over my non dominant eye and this ihas worked well for me in two low/no light classes as well as other futzing around(s). I like it, but will give some thought and practice to above suggestions. |
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I switched it over and practiced a little dominant eye last night. It feels funny over there. But it also works with RDS and pistol MRDS.
Shakin' the bushes boss. |
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Non dominant eye for me. I started with a dominant eye and eye cup with gain cranked way up. Ripped that garbage off. Now run no eye cup, non dominant eye, low gain.
Low gain keeps my eye from tiring out as well, and feels more natural in terms of how I see things. More "seeing with night vision" and less "looking through a tube." Also helps get the thermal optic up to my eye fast without flipping the 14 up. |
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OK had to do some minor tweaking to get the passive mode going. I added a 1/2" riser under a ADM mount and am now at 2.28" roughly. This brings things up nicely to get a reticle with the -14. I was running a Geisselle mount at 1.93 and it was a bit low. Maybe OK for occasional use, but if you wanted to run dominant eye and passive as SOP, then the higher mount is gonna be the deal, at least for me.
Augee do you see a problem in adjusting the laser pointer to the reticle, as long as your RDS is zeroed? It's hard to get low light range time around here; this would be a nice way to confirm zero in between live fire. I know this sorta defeats the purpose of passive work, but it's right there and easy to check. |
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Augee do you see a problem in adjusting the laser pointer to the reticle, as long as your RDS is zeroed? It's hard to get low light range time around here; this would be a nice way to confirm zero in between live fire. I know this sorta defeats the purpose of passive work, but it's right there and easy to check. View Quote Adjustment ranges? I boresight/zero my lasers to high-rise optics the same way I would with absolute cowitness or lower-1/3 cowitness. Again, the laser is not, at least to me, a precision aiming solution, and I have not ever noticed a practical difference between high-rise and more traditionally mounted optics, though to be fair, I've never sat down and shot groups to see "exactly" what the shift was, if any. ~Augee |
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Nah just in general terms. The only way I've ever "zero'd" my laser was to prone out, put the RDS reticle on tgt, and let my buddy adjust the laser until it hits the same spot. This is with OTAL, so yeah pretty basic.
My question is if I put the reticle on a tgt at 100m, then adjust the laser to the exact same spot, will that get me in the neighborhood of a 100m zero on the laser? Is that pretty much what you were doing with your johnny home maker laser target, with the 1 1/2" reflector? Just recently joined a club with limited night time shooting so I will finally be able to explore this a little. With the -14 now mounted dominant eye, and the RDS on a taller mount, I can now look through the reticle and see the laser at the same time. So I'm just wondering if those dots should be lined up, or should there be a little off-set, depending on the range. For instance at 50m it would be slightly off-set, high and right, 100m dead on, but at say 150m, it would be off-set (low maybe?) and left (as the laser crossed over after 100m). Uh new thread? |
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For all intents and purposes, yes, just align the dot with your day sight at your desired range, and you should more or less be good to go.
Even if your day sight is zeroed to a different range than you use at night, you should generally be close enough to your day sight offsets as you’re just trying to match the direct LOS of your day sight’s POA, not trying to intersect your bullet’s arc at any given range(s), therefore, the further out you zero your IR laser, the more you “cancel out” your mechanical offsets. You’re correct, however, that at closer ranges, your laser dot will be offset slightly, but what you will see through the optic is not your offset relative to your bore (e.g., high right with a 12 o’clock mounted ATPIAL), but rather your offset relative to your reticle’s direct LOS, so up close with the same configuration, your laser dot will be low right, with the offset shrinkingp until you reach the distance at which you coaligned them. What you will see past your point of convergence may depend on the range at which you coaligned the laser, the laser’s power, the size of your dot/reticle, and beam divergence, but yes, once they cross, your day sight’s direct LOS and your laser POA will begin to move away from each other in the opposite direction, but remember, you will still need to use your appropriate vertical offsets for the range at which you zeroed your day sight. It sounds/reads more complicated than it is. ~Augee |
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No I actually get it, the way you explained it, thanks.
Makes sense, it's the reticle POA, not the bore. Duh. |
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Can I throw a wrench into this discussion? What if, like me, you're a right handed shooter and you're left eye dominant? Which eye would you all recommend for the NVG monocular?
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I’d just put it on either eye and go use it. See how it feels, see how you do. Then after a week or two try the other eye and see how that goes for a couple weeks. Truth is everyone’s eyes are different and everyone is using them a different way. No one answer is the best for all situations. So pick what makes sense to you and then if it doesn’t feel ideal, do it different. It’s not like there are NV police coming to ticket you. So try it out and do what works best. Everything else is either preaching hypotheticals or giving their experience from their eyes. Neither is all that important to anyone else as again, everyone has different eyes.
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Quoted:
Can I throw a wrench into this discussion? What if, like me, you're a right handed shooter and you're left eye dominant? Which eye would you all recommend for the NVG monocular? View Quote I'm right handed and at one time was left eye dominant. After some time of forcing myself to use my right eye, I became right eye dominant. |
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