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Posted: 12/13/2017 5:22:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Why are these priced so much lower compared to other shoulder fired Rifle MGs? They are more accurate, more reliable, better aftermarket parts availability, modern, tactical, they just a few of the transferable MGs that are still used by militaries in actual combat. Most have belt fed options, multiple calibers, easily suppressed....you get the idea. Whereas the rugger has none of these. |
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Posted: 12/13/2017 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#2]
I kinda figured that but didnt know if their was something deeper their.
Like the lack of ability to rebuild the registered part. Im not sure whats the registered part is on these. I have never handled one. I have noticed that the M1 or M2 carbines are kinda in the same price spectrum. The Sub $15K-10k. Just bought my first MG a SWD M11/9. I am almost half way from paying myself off on that purchases and the MG bug has bit me. I would like another one. In the research stage at the moment. |
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Posted: 12/13/2017 6:28:33 PM EDT
[#3]
The registered part on Ruger factory AC556 guns is the receiver itself. There are a myraid of Mini-14 conversions out there that the registered part could who knows what.
They are actually not all that bad. I have had one of the 13" blued folder versions for a decade or more. I don't think it has ever jammed, its never broken a part, has 3rd burst option, etc. Always sorta wanted to get a peer 13" stainless folder version just because I think they really have a really unique and classic look. One of the few preban guns I regret selling was a stainless Mini-14 GB. While prices are lower than M16s and HKs, I dont think I want a second AC, even if it is stainless for $13 to $15K. |
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Posted: 12/13/2017 6:46:33 PM EDT
[#4]
I like the AC556's, but yes, they do have limits. Since you cannot "swap uppers" you need to be careful about warping the barrel through mag dumps, and now that Ruger has run out of replacement barrels, that is a serious concern. I don't know of any aftermarket source for them (though anything can be made from scratch).
There are some other fire-control and receiver parts that are now unobtanium, so you really need to be careful. Remember, these were not designed or built to be military grade; they are law-enforcement grade. |
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Posted: 12/13/2017 6:58:23 PM EDT
[#5]
There are pleanty of ruger mini 14 barrels out there that you can install on an ac556. Ive shortened a mini 1:9 twist barrel to 13", and fitted it to my ac556. Made the gun a lot more accurate since the older barrel was like a 1:12 twist. You also have to enlarge the gas port on 13" barrels.
Ill admit it took a lot of time on a lathe to get it fitted and had to use a finishing reamer |
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Posted: 12/13/2017 8:11:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks guys for the info.
I have always liked the Mini-14. One of 2 guns that I have ever regretted selling was a mini-14. Anything in particular to look for in a ac556? What is considered a good deal? |
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Posted: 12/13/2017 8:57:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks guys for the info. I have always liked the Mini-14. One of 2 guns that I have ever regretted selling was a mini-14. Anything in particular to look for in a ac556? What is considered a good deal? Try to get one with a factory folder. If it has the clyde scar stock thats a bonus as they dont make those anymore. Youll pay more if the gun has the original box. Trigger group and receiver are the main parts that are different than the mini. The bolt assembly is the same between the two. Keep in mind that these guns have like a 1:12 twist barrels so 55gr bullets are the heaviest you want to use, unless you swap to 1:9 twist barrels or faster. Also factory mags are the most reliable. Use brass ammo in these guns and you can use tapco polymer mags. |
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Posted: 12/14/2017 9:40:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Frank has blued barrel folder for $10.9k right now, seem like a pretty fair price.
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Posted: 12/14/2017 10:35:08 AM EDT
[#9]
I was not familiar with that sight you put me on.
Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/14/2017 12:37:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Love mine, but I watched too much A-Team in the 80s. Like everyone said, they do have limitations. I believe mine transferred right as Ruger started to withdraw support.
Always use factory mags. I have yet to find an aftermarket that works for shit. Treat it with respect and it'll last a long time. If you can find a spare parts kit, snap it up (they typically go for $1k give or take, an are only getting pricier). Many parts will interchange with the earlier mini-14 rifles. If you ever need work done to it, reach out to M60Joe. I had my extractor crack, causing the firing pin to come loose, which ended up damaging the cross plate in the receiver. That part is what keeps the firing pin from hitting the primer until the bolt is fully locked. I could have had an OOB KB, but caught it. Joe fixed it up like new. He used to make a speed loader for .22 mags, but last I checked he said parts had dried up. Regarding the .22 kit, Black Dog Machine makes decent mags, and some spare parts. |
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Posted: 12/14/2017 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#11]
The price is lower because the collector interest is lower.
The thing that makes collector items worth money is how much the item excites the imagination of the collectors. Some bad ass gun like the thompson that was used by gangsters and police and used all through WWII and into Korea and Vietnam is going to fire the imagination of collectors way more than an AC556. |
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Posted: 12/17/2017 11:56:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Imho, save an exrra 3k and get a lightning link. Itll work rven with thr shrikes using a semi bolt. Belt.fed winning.
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Posted: 12/17/2017 6:37:05 PM EDT
[#13]
I think the price on machine gun price guide have been exagrating their current value for a long time.
At 14k-17k it wouldnt be a smart purchase.... they sell for 10k on the regular. Atleast all the ones ive seen over the past 5 years. I too worry about replacement parts....im fairly certain no matter what if your willing to pay they can always be fixed. Someday, say when they are worth 30k.. is it really a big deal to shell out a few thousand to just have the work done? I like the ruger but you don't(or shouldn't) buy one to treat it like an rdias or hk sear or even a rr m16 for that matter. Its more link an FNC. If your going to be a shooter not a collector you either need to spend more money(m16/hk), or settle for a subgun (uzi,m10,m11) I think you wind up with a ruger once you already own the others or just looking for another investment... I just like them from look standpoint, find its FCG interesting and just couldn't pass it up for its price. Maybe im wrong about machine gun price guide.. now that i have mine i think they are undervalueing them 
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Posted: 12/18/2017 10:03:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the price on machine gun price guide have been exagrating their current value for a long time. At 14k-17k it wouldnt be a smart purchase.... they sell for 10k on the regular. Atleast all the ones ive seen over the past 5 years. I too worry about replacement parts....im fairly certain no matter what if your willing to pay they can always be fixed. Someday, say when they are worth 30k.. is it really a big deal to shell out a few thousand to just have the work done? I like the ruger but you don't(or shouldn't) buy one to treat it like an rdias or hk sear or even a rr m16 for that matter. Its more link an FNC. If your going to be a shooter not a collector you either need to spend more money(m16/hk), or settle for a subgun (uzi,m10,m11) I think you wind up with a ruger once you already own the others or just looking for another investment... I just like them from look standpoint, find its FCG interesting and just couldn't pass it up for its price. Maybe im wrong about machine gun price guide.. now that i have mine i think they are undervalueing them I am kinda in the research stage at the moment for my next purchase. The purchase will most likely be made in late 2018 or 2019. The UZI is defiantly on the radar. Whats the major drawback of the registered bolt UZIs? Can they be repaired? I had a Vector Semi auto UZI years ago. From what I remember about it was the bolt was a massive block of steel. Didn't really see anything that could go wrong. Beside firing the pin breaking. And whats the deal with the Stemple? Good? Bad? parts/mag availability? Im just kinda looking at the options in the +/-10K range. |
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Posted: 12/18/2017 12:24:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the major drawback of the registered bolt UZIs? Can they be repaired? I had a Vector Semi auto UZI years ago. From what I remember about it was the bolt was a massive block of steel. Didn't really see anything that could go wrong. Beside firing the pin breaking. |
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Posted: 12/18/2017 2:37:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Registered UZI bolts can be repaired (if they even fail), but the major drawback is no caliber conversions. The bolt is the MG, so it's limited to 9mm. This makes registered UZI receivers more desirable. |
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Posted: 12/18/2017 6:08:52 PM EDT
[#17]
If you're fine with only 9mm, then the registered bolts are the less expensive route.
Just make sure you avoid any improper conversion where (for example) the receiver was registered, but a slotted bolt was used. This makes the bolt "married" to that receiver, if it's even legal. These are a gray area, neither component can be replaced, and the owner assumes much risk that ATF may decide the setup is contraband and sieze it. So if you are considering a risky improper conversion like that, the price should be reflectively low. Usually it isn't, however, and I recommend avoiding them altogether. |
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Posted: 12/18/2017 9:03:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're fine with only 9mm, then the registered bolts are the less expensive route. Just make sure you avoid any improper conversion where (for example) the receiver was registered, but a slotted bolt was used. This makes the bolt "married" to that receiver, if it's even legal. These are a gray area, neither component can be replaced, and the owner assumes much risk that ATF may decide the setup is contraband and sieze it. So if you are considering a risky improper conversion like that, the price should be reflectively low. Usually it isn't, however, and I recommend avoiding them altogether. Any serious drawbacks to them? Parts/mags? |
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Posted: 12/19/2017 6:07:00 AM EDT
[#19]
I don't have any experience with Stemples. You might try the UZItalk or subguns.com forum.
From what little I've seen, I think a Sterling or Sten tube converted into a Sterling (Stenling) would interest me more. ATF has stated it's OK to make any Sten into a Stenling. |
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Posted: 12/23/2017 10:30:17 PM EDT
[#20]
I went with a registered bolt uzi..which is different than most conversion devices in that you get less calibers..
For a few thousand more I could have gone RR but you actual break even with a bolt with host depending on what you get. Even with the loss of caliber conversions, i could see bolts being worth more than RR... for a long time everyone CLAIMed a rr M16 was better than a rdias.. none of the reasons had any basis in reality except for collecter grade m16s, and even then it doesn't make sense if you plan to use it. I like to use my MGs and not care if they get rained on, dropped, damaged...fixing a bolt is easier than fixing a RR any day of the week. The bolt has a fixed firing pin dimple, that may need repair if your always punching primers, or i guess a bad enough kaboom could damage the bolt face.... I even hear Bolts can even be cut down from full size to the smaller platforms.. Even a 9mm registed bolt most like could be set up for .380....but i can't see why anyone would want to do that, and probably why to my knowledge doesnt exist. Id never want a .22 conversion, .45 would have been a nice options, but i just got the m10 in 45...so if im wrong about future bolt value, i just make a little less money.. if im correct about the furture price ill do very well. |
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Posted: 12/24/2017 7:46:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went with a registered bolt uzi..which is different than most conversion devices in that you get less calibers.. For a few thousand more I could have gone RR but you actual break even with a bolt with host depending on what you get. Even with the loss of caliber conversions, i could see bolts being worth more than RR... for a long time everyone CLAIMed a rr M16 was better than a rdias.. none of the reasons had any basis in reality except for collecter grade m16s, and even then it doesn't make sense if you plan to use it. I like to use my MGs and not care if they get rained on, dropped, damaged...fixing a bolt is easier than fixing a RR any day of the week. The bolt has a fixed firing pin dimple, that may need repair if your always punching primers, or i guess a bad enough kaboom could damage the bolt face.... I even hear Bolts can even be cut down from full size to the smaller platforms.. Even a 9mm registed bolt most like could be set up for .380....but i can't see why anyone would want to do that, and probably why to my knowledge doesnt exist. Id never want a .22 conversion, .45 would have been a nice options, but i just got the m10 in 45...so if im wrong about future bolt value, i just make a little less money.. if im correct about the furture price ill do very well. |
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Posted: 12/24/2017 9:53:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went with a registered bolt uzi..which is different than most conversion devices in that you get less calibers.. For a few thousand more I could have gone RR but you actual break even with a bolt with host depending on what you get. Even with the loss of caliber conversions, i could see bolts being worth more than RR... for a long time everyone CLAIMed a rr M16 was better than a rdias.. none of the reasons had any basis in reality except for collecter grade m16s, and even then it doesn't make sense if you plan to use it. I like to use my MGs and not care if they get rained on, dropped, damaged...fixing a bolt is easier than fixing a RR any day of the week. The bolt has a fixed firing pin dimple, that may need repair if your always punching primers, or i guess a bad enough kaboom could damage the bolt face.... I even hear Bolts can even be cut down from full size to the smaller platforms.. Even a 9mm registed bolt most like could be set up for .380....but i can't see why anyone would want to do that, and probably why to my knowledge doesnt exist. Id never want a .22 conversion, .45 would have been a nice options, but i just got the m10 in 45...so if im wrong about future bolt value, i just make a little less money.. if im correct about the furture price ill do very well. An AR15 is an erector set. It's like 1000 guns in one. It's a very unusual situation. So a lightning link is very appealing for the guys who want to go FA on a lot of different platforms. An UZI on the other hand is an UZI. You're going to mount a red dot sight on a top cover and maybe get a vertical grip and wood stock. That's about it for the platform changes to the UZI. A sight and a buttstock, both of which can be changed in seconds. The only real platform change is a caliber conversion. By allowing caliber conversions, the RR is more versatile than a registered bolt. I just shoot 9mm but some guys want to shoot 22 and 45 Also, the bolt is a wear item. They do sometimes eventually need replacement. Also, the non-IMI parts like Group Industries bolts are often out of spec. Many a jammy Group RR was made to run good by doing an IMI part makeover. The UZI is a very rugged gun, the repairs needed are generally rewilding the trunnion, rewelding the rear plate and putting in a milled feed ramp. None of those operations is expensive or complicated. Is repairing a bolt easier than rewelding a rear plate on a receiver? Since when? |
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Posted: 12/24/2017 7:28:53 PM EDT
[#23]
I've got 4 caliber conversions for my RR Uzi besides the 9mm. And I find I shoot it 98% of the time in 9mm.
I like options. I used to really be into the .22 conversion thing. In fact, that was one reason I went with the Uzi vs a Sterling, as there were no reliable .22 conversions for the M11/9 at the time. But I got bored with the .22 setup (never thought I'd say that). I haven't shot it in a number of years now. So I wouldn't feel too bad about buying a "9mm-only" bolt at this point in life. But only at a decent discount as compared to the price of a RR. The bolts I see for sale are too close to the price of a RR that I wouldn't bother with one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's no way on God's green earth that a registered bolt will ever be worth more than a registered receiver UZI. |
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Posted: 12/24/2017 7:32:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anything in particular to look for in a registered bolt uzi? Anything to be leery of? I've seen a couple of ugly conversions where a semi-auto bolt was converted by wedding the striker assembly to the rear of the bolt. The one or two I've seen looked like someone used a coat hanger for the wedding wire. I suppose those could be fixed. But again, it would have to be priced at a significant discount for me to consider one of those. |
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Posted: 12/28/2017 12:59:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got 4 caliber conversions for my RR Uzi besides the 9mm. And I find I shoot it 98% of the time in 9mm. I like options. I used to really be into the .22 conversion thing. In fact, that was one reason I went with the Uzi vs a Sterling, as there were no reliable .22 conversions for the M11/9 at the time. But I got bored with the .22 setup (never thought I'd say that). I haven't shot it in a number of years now. So I wouldn't feel too bad about buying a "9mm-only" bolt at this point in life. But only at a decent discount as compared to the price of a RR. The bolts I see for sale are too close to the price of a RR that I wouldn't bother with one. Never say never. It would be interesting if someone were to build a cool host that everyone just had to have, and got ATF approval to use he registered bolt in it. I'm not sure what that would look like, or if it would ever happen, but stranger things have come to pass. Wonder how the ATF would view it. Would they see it like putting a FNC sear into a SCAR? If there was a 22 setup that could fire 150 rounds or something like that, I would be all over it. Provided it didn't jam. But having an 22 UZI fart out 20 or 28 rounds in 1/4 second is boring. Plus my kit always jammed a lot, I could never get it running good. I sold it and didn't look back. |
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Posted: 12/28/2017 1:13:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hadn't thought of that one, a new host for an FA UZI bolt. Wonder how the ATF would view it. Would they see it like putting a FNC sear into a SCAR? They should consider it part of the UZI family, but I've never seen any opinions either way. Are there any ATF letters floating around regarding full-size UZI to Mini UZI? |
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Posted: 12/28/2017 3:52:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there was a 22 setup that could fire 150 rounds or something like that, I would be all over it. Provided it didn't jam. But you can get up to 220 rounds at a go with the Bazooka Bro's adapter. I've only got a couple of the little 165 round drums for mine.  Uzi .22 with 165 rd. drum magazine |
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Posted: 12/28/2017 6:45:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, he whole "not jamming" thing can be a challenge, whether you're running 10 rounds or 100. But you can get up to 220 rounds at a go with the Bazooka Bro's adapter. I've only got a couple of the little 165 round drums for mine.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEwF2IRI4TMi can reload 9mm for like 13 cents a round and 22 costs 6 cents i think both 22 kits ran me like $700 each after all the mags and accessories were purchased. so when do you hit beak even on cost? 10,000 rounds |
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Posted: 12/28/2017 10:15:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: whatever it takes to make a MAC or UZI run on 22, I couldn't figure out. i can reload 9mm for like 13 cents a round and 22 costs 6 cents i think both 22 kits ran me like $700 each after all the mags and accessories were purchased. so when do you hit beak even on cost? 10,000 rounds The .22 Uzi kit -- once Richard at BWE did his slow-fire conversion, and tuned it to my receiver -- changed my mind. I don't run it to save money; I just think it's so cool to have a .22RF machine gun. It runs around 650 RPM so I can do short bursts. It's reliable, and runs 200-300 rounds without needing cleaning. There is no recoil. And I grew up learning on .22s, so today -- a half-century later -- I revel in having a reliable .22 machine gun!!! How cool is that? I dunno, maybe it's just me .... 
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Posted: 1/2/2018 5:49:14 PM EDT
[#30]
my problem with buying an Uzi is not knowing how well the conversion was done with slots, barrel rings and bolt feet on the smaller models... usually the sellers are either clueless, pretend to be clueless, don't let you open the gun or refuse to take decent photos. the latter esp. since most $40 stroller ads on craigslist have better pictures than a $13k Uzi listing.
does a RR bolt overcome most of these issues? can you just pop it into any UZI and I assume you want a RR Bolt with a slot? |
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Posted: 1/2/2018 6:37:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my problem with buying an Uzi is not knowing how well the conversion was done with slots, barrel rings and bolt feet on the smaller models... usually the sellers are either clueless, pretend to be clueless, don't let you open the gun or refuse to take decent photos. the latter esp. since most $40 stroller ads on craigslist have better pictures than a $13k Uzi listing. does a RR bolt overcome most of these issues? can you just pop it into any UZI and I assume you want a RR Bolt with a slot? |
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Posted: 1/2/2018 7:31:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my problem with buying an Uzi is not knowing how well the conversion was done with slots, barrel rings and bolt feet on the smaller models... usually the sellers are either clueless, pretend to be clueless, don't let you open the gun or refuse to take decent photos. the latter esp. since most $40 stroller ads on craigslist have better pictures than a $13k Uzi listing. does a RR bolt overcome most of these issues? can you just pop it into any UZI and I assume you want a RR Bolt with a slot? be aware that some RRs have "married" conversion bolts. yuck. or they could have been been married to a conversion bolt and then not-so-legally converted to full SMG specs a vector is a safe bet with regards to the conversion, since it started life as a full SMG spec gun. |
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Posted: 1/22/2018 11:49:29 PM EDT
[#33]
My uzi bolt and host i would say have been fired so little, i cant even be certain its ever been fired. I was told it has been...but it doesnt have a single mark on it. Other then it nicley engraved serial number in what i consider to be an ideal location.
I know my registered bolt vs RR argument has some truely flawed logic.. i might still be right. The .22lr thing is the only thing i think could make me wrong...when youre obsessing while buying i get the argument. If your going to run your MG in .22lr you might aswell buy a full auto .22 pellet gun and a dress. |
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Posted: 1/29/2018 11:20:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If your going to run your MG in .22lr you might aswell buy a full auto .22 pellet gun and a dress. I've been told that my AC556 with a suppressor and a .22 kit is the "most fun you can have with pants on". I don't know that I agree, but it does still give me a shit eating grin. 
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Posted: 1/30/2018 7:12:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Thats funny. .22lr is popular with alot of owners. It just doesnt do it for me..
My ruger kac556k was approved today, along with two others.. i only have 1 inbound MG im waiting for which should be anyday now. |
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Posted: 1/30/2018 8:01:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Congrats!
You've probably already heard this, but the stainless barrels are quick to permanently discolor from barrel heat, as compared to the blued barrels. |
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Posted: 1/30/2018 9:46:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats funny. .22lr is popular with alot of owners. It just doesnt do it for me.. My ruger kac556k was approved today, along with two others.. i only have 1 inbound MG im waiting for which should be anyday now. 
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