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Posted: 8/5/2020 12:07:39 AM EDT
Well I didn't set the due correctly and ended up with the shoulder and neck where only the neck should have been.  Any nondestructive suggestions on removing the pressed on brass ring I created.  Thinking a screwdriver and a hammer but figured I'd ask the more experienced before I made something worse or messed up the die.
Link Posted: 8/5/2020 12:17:06 AM EDT
I would heat it until it turns red to soften it. Should come off pretty easily then as it will expand when heated.
Link Posted: 8/5/2020 12:18:11 AM EDT
Gently use a dremel tool with cutting wheel.   Score the brass on both side, but stop short of cutting through, you should then be able to use channel locks and twist of the brass w/o damaging the die.
Link Posted: 8/5/2020 12:20:38 AM EDT
Get yourself a Dremel with a cut off wheel. Just put a line through it. Even if you touch the nut a little bit it won't hurt anything. You can do the same thing with a file but takes a lot longer.


Dan...
Link Posted: 8/5/2020 12:36:56 AM EDT
Got it off before looking back on here.  Hole in my vice was slightly bigger then the expanding ball,but smaller than the brass ring.  Barely had to tap it through the hole with a wooden mallet.  Having problems getting the die set right so ill try again tomorrow when I have more patience.
Link Posted: 8/7/2020 10:48:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By runs_with_scissors:
Got it off before looking back on here.  Hole in my vice was slightly bigger then the expanding ball,but smaller than the brass ring.  Barely had to tap it through the hole with a wooden mallet.  Having problems getting the die set right so ill try again tomorrow when I have more patience.
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well now that is off, chuck the stem in a drill and polish the expander to a near mirror finish.  I use crocus cloth but the finest sandpaper will work.  Then follow up with flitz polish or even toothpaste.
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 12:05:38 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By runs_with_scissors:
Got it off before looking back on here.  Hole in my vice was slightly bigger then the expanding ball,but smaller than the brass ring.  Barely had to tap it through the hole with a wooden mallet.  Having problems getting the die set right so ill try again tomorrow when I have more patience.
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That's exactly how I fixed it when I made that mistake.
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 11:15:25 AM EDT
Ok guys I went back and read the instructions.  With my shell holder all the way up, I spun the die down until they touched.  Lowered the ram did a 1/4 turn and the decaping pin protruding 1/8 inch.  Took a well lubed S&B case and tryed it out.  Same result shoulder and neck ripped off and in the same place.  Any recommendations on what I need to do differently.  These are RCBS AR dies if it helps any.
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 11:20:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2020 11:29:43 AM EDT by Strikefirst]
My Rcbs AR  resizing died don't have a knurled expander...either of them.

Is that the right expander?

300 B.O.? .223/5.56?

https://www.rcbs.com/accessories/replacement-parts/decap-unit---.223%2F5.56mm/16-9802.html
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 11:40:47 AM EDT
Lube you inside the case neck greatly reduces case stretching and expander ball sticking....
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 2:18:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2020 2:26:25 PM EDT by SteelonSteel]
That should not be happening.

I suspect your neck in the sizer is overly tight.


Take the whole expander stem out.   Lube a piece of brass and size it.  Measure the outside neck diameter as well as the inside neck diameter.   Measure the expander at the top, the widest spot, near the threaded rod end and in the middle lesser diameter near the knurling.  

Also measure your neck walls, it will be a rough measurement without a tubing mic but should be close enogh.   The neck  wall should be about 0.013” thick.  

Ideally your expander should leace you with about 0.003” smaller neck opening than your bullet.  In my experience RCBS tends to make their sizing necks too tight and trusts their expander to make it right.  It really is overworking the brass but in their defense their plan is to handle in brass thickness the user might have, extra thick or thin.   Step one is to smush neck small to fix defects by the brass running to the top of the stroke, step two is while lowering the expander pops the brass back out to just enough to securely hold the bullet with an interference fit.  

You could chuck the stem in a drill and polish it smoother.

Edit, If your numbers show an excessively tight neck sizing from the die, I would call RCBS and have them fix it.


Edit 2. I looked at your picture again.......It looks like you never got it over the expander and into the die?  It jammed on the way over the expander, causing that wrinkle around the circumference and the subsequent withdrawl pulled the neck off?  

Sounds like that is the incorrect expander for the die set.  Even dry I would think it would not be quite that catostrophic, some screaching going over the expander.  

You did rub the inside of the neck with a plastic lube brush right?
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 3:13:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By runs_with_scissors:
Ok guys I went back and read the instructions.  With my shell holder all the way up, I spun the die down until they touched.  Lowered the ram did a 1/4 turn and the decaping pin protruding 1/8 inch.  Took a well lubed S&B case and tryed it out.  Same result shoulder and neck ripped off and in the same place.  Any recommendations on what I need to do differently.  These are RCBS AR dies if it helps any.
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When you say the decapping pin is protruding 1/8" protruding, Does that mean protruding from the bottom of the case?

If so, can you run the decapping pin down further. Maybe the case is still in the sizing portion of the die too much and then having the brass case in the sizer with the expander could make too much of an interference fit.

Just an idea.
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 5:42:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By cat-mechanic:

When you say the decapping pin is protruding 1/8" protruding, Does that mean protruding from the bottom of the case?

If so, can you run the decapping pin down further. Maybe the case is still in the sizing portion of the die too much and then having the brass case in the sizer with the expander could make too much of an interference fit.

Just an idea.
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That's my guess too.
Link Posted: 8/8/2020 11:36:16 PM EDT
I'll check out everyone's suggestions in the morning when I get off work.  I bought the dies used off the EE several years ago so something might not be right.  Feel like it's probably something simple that I'm not doing right.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 12:14:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 2:24:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Something is not right.  Wish you would have posted where you got dies from before now.

Someone passed their problem off to you.

So now you should contact RCBS and tell them the whole story and see what they say.

They will probably send you a new die, 1-800- 553-5000.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By runs_with_scissors:
I'll check out everyone's suggestions in the morning when I get off work.  I bought the dies used off the EE several years ago so something might not be right.  Feel like it's probably something simple that I'm not doing right.
Something is not right.  Wish you would have posted where you got dies from before now.

Someone passed their problem off to you.

So now you should contact RCBS and tell them the whole story and see what they say.

They will probably send you a new die, 1-800- 553-5000.

Thanks dryflash3 after watching a video by RCBS I believe the pin and ball are not far enough down.  Going to see what happens if I adjust it further down, along with rereading the setup instructions again.  If that doesn't work I'll give them a call Monday.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 4:53:54 AM EDT
That pin is way short for .223, but even so the expander shouldn't have done that. Call RCBS - they stand behind their products 110% and they will help you.
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 5:47:17 AM EDT
Its for 300 black out and will be calling RCBS Monday
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 5:54:01 AM EDT
According to the RCBS website, that item looks like a decapping unit used in their handgun reloading dies.

https://www.rcbs.com/accessories/replacement-parts/decap-unit---short/16-9622.html
Link Posted: 8/9/2020 9:25:11 AM EDT
Apparently I walked off with my good calipers and placed them somewhere other than where they go.  So I had to use the harbor freight brand that only goes to tenths. The decaping head went from .27 to .30.  Tried using it with the head and pin spun a good ways down and sticking out a good bit and had success.  No stuck case and it passed the case gauge go, no go I'll actually measure it when I figure out where my good calipers are.  Did notice the all thread piece the decaping head and pin are connected to, is bent slightly so I'll be replacing it after I talk to rcbs.  Since you guys have me convinced something is possibly not right with this die.  Thanks for all the help guys.
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 12:51:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2020 1:38:50 PM EDT by hdbint]
WTF would an expander ball have knurls on it?

You have a decapping pin retainer in your die.

EDIT:  Just looked and I guess RCBS does have knurls on the expander.  However, the knurled piece is narrower than the expanding portion on RCBS dies.  Yours doesn't look right.  I still stand by my belief that you don't have an expander.  It's a general decapping pin retainer not meant for expanding.

Link Posted: 8/10/2020 4:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2020 12:24:31 AM EDT by dryflash3]
Take that garbage back to GD with you. dryflash3
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 8:09:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By hdbint:
WTF would an expander ball have knurls on it?

You have a decapping pin retainer in your die.

EDIT:  Just looked and I guess RCBS does have knurls on the expander.  However, the knurled piece is narrower than the expanding portion on RCBS dies.  Yours doesn't look right.  I still stand by my belief that you don't have an expander.  It's a general decapping pin retainer not meant for expanding.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/17506/RCBS_Expander-1540447.jpg
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I couldn’t recall the knurling on mine but I have hornady redding and rcbs on hand,....went down to the bbench when I originally pisted, my rcbs are knurled just like his and the wides part that does the actual sizing is just above where his brass is stuck,...at the uppermost part of the expander,
Link Posted: 8/10/2020 9:06:40 PM EDT
Didn't have a chance to call rcbs today since I actually slept for once when I got off work.  Thinking that it was just to far up in the die and there was just not enough room between it and the die.  When I ran it further down there was no problem.
Link Posted: 8/11/2020 9:23:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2020 9:59:30 AM EDT by hdbint]
Can you take a picture of your expander with the brass removed?  I'm really curious to how it's shaped and want to make sure you're actually using an expander.  Especially since the dies are second hand.  There's no telling what the original owner screwed on there.  The brass shavings on the knurled portion concerns me.

EDIT:  OP, Please don't think our questions are condescending.  There's a lot of people here who want to make sure you're hand loading safely and correctly.  If you're not using the correct expander, you will have other problems when you get to seating bullets.  If you get past seating, you could still have problems when it comes to shooting them even if they drop into a case gauge.

I could be totally wrong here but want to make sure you're using the correct expander.

Just pulled an RCBS expander from a .223 die to get a picture of the belled portion your expander should have.

Link Posted: 8/12/2020 1:57:45 AM EDT
The expander part is there just like yours.  Things happened on my one day off and did not get to call them.  Plan on ordering a completely new decaping unit.  The threaded piece, expander and pin.  May just order a complete new die set, and be done with it.
Link Posted: 8/12/2020 9:19:19 AM EDT
Good deal.  You'd probably be good with just a new shaft, expander and decapping pin.

Sounds like you've got it close to figured out.
Link Posted: 8/12/2020 1:23:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2020 11:46:55 AM EDT
I agree with dryflash3 on the Hornady dies.  They're all I use now.  Their only weakness used to be with the smooth spindle shaft but they've fixed that with the newer zip spindle shaft.  They're a great set of dies.
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