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Posted: 6/6/2023 3:03:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZA206]
Decided to jump into 6.5CM because I clearly don’t have enough distractions in my life…
 Build list: 24” Proof carbon fiber 1:8 twist 6.5CM barrel Aero M5 lower Aero M5 Enhanced upper Aero 16.6” Enhanced hand guard Elftmann 3-Gun single stage trigger Raptor Charging handle JP silent capture spring JP LMOS high pressure BCG Superlative Arms adjustable gas block B5 Precision stock Dead Air keymo brake Badger C1 - 20 MOA 30mm mount NightForce NX8 4-32x 50mm w/Mil-XT reticle Reloading list (so far): Redding Master Hunter 6.5CM dies Sinclair Ti Nitride turning & expander mandrels H4350 & Win Staball 6.5 powders Sierra 120 gr match king blems (barrel break in) Hornady 140 & 147 bullets 250 pieces of Peterson SP brass WFT 6.5CM trimmer This will eventually morph into a reloading thread where I post my load development pictures and suffer the consequences for not cherry picking groups I post on the internet…  Pictures:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 3:18:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Get the Redding National Match Die set so have the versatility to crimp with a separate taper crimp die. The Hunter Set does not have a means to crimp tis only the FL sizer with carbide expander button and Competition Seater. Competition Seaters have no crimp feature.
Look at the Berger 130gr Hybrid OTM bullet. Get a chrono so you can have accurate range dope. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 3:44:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rn22723: Get the Redding National Match Die set so have the versatility to crimp with a separate taper crimp die. The Hunter Set does not have a means to crimp tis only the FL sizer with carbide expander button and Competition Seater. Competition Seaters have no crimp feature. Look at the Berger 130gr Hybrid OTM bullet. Get a chrono so you can have accurate range dope. I'm not planning on crimping, I only use neck tension to hold the bullets. I have a magnetospeed already. 
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Posted: 6/6/2023 3:59:37 PM EDT
[#3]
OST for info. I have a AA 6.5CM with a PR barrel. Haven't had a chance to do much load development yet.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/7/2023 7:18:01 AM EDT
[#4]
in for range report after you get in dialed in and what you used for a load.
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Posted: 6/7/2023 5:13:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: carcrazysammy]
[#5]
That's a beautiful rifle. Only advise I can give is get your gas settings sorted out before doing any load development.
Any plans on running factory ammo? I'm curious. A buddy has a JP 6.5 Creedmoor complete auto-loading rifle and it is very hard on brass. Primer pockets loosen up to the point every 10 or so won't hold a primer after the first firing with factory Hornday. I hope you have better luck. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 9:29:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By carcrazysammy: That's a beautiful rifle. Only advise I can give is get your gas settings sorted out before doing any load development. Any plans on running factory ammo? I'm curious. A buddy has a JP 6.5 Creedmoor complete auto-loading rifle and it is very hard on brass. Primer pockets loosen up to the point every 10 or so won't hold a primer after the first firing with factory Hornday. I hope you have better luck. I’ve got factory Hornady 140 & 147, Berger 130 & 144 and Norma 130 ammo for it. I’m going to setup the gas system with factory ammo, but will do most of the barrel break in while fire forming that Peterson brass with light loads of AA2495 or IMR4166 and the 120 SMK blems. ZA |
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Posted: 6/8/2023 10:46:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Measured a bunch of the factory ammo last night for reference (my list above was wrong, correct factory ammo list below).
Using the Hornady case gauge comparator and the bullet comparator, here is what I got: Ammo - Head Space - Cartridge Base to Ogive: Hornady 147 ELDM - 1.559" - 2.158" Hornady 140 ELDM - 1.558" - 2.185" Norma 143 Golden Target - 1.557" - 2.152" Berger 140 Hybrid Target - 1.556" - 2.127" Berger 130 Hybrid OTM Tac - 1.556" - 2.191" Berger 144 LR Hybrid Target - 1.555" - 2.127" Unfired/new Peterson SRP brass, HS = 1.557" |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2023 8:57:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice setup! I just starting out reloading for 6.5 CM myself. I haven't reloaded seriously in several years, I'm kind of stunned how expensive things got. I bought Redding Premium dies which are nice.
So far, in the batch I tried, I found a nice accuracy load at 100 yards with 41.5 grains of H4350 and a 140 grain Hornady ELD-M. I also bought some Berger 140 Hybrids and Lapua 136 grain Scenar L's to try. As far as factory ammo, I found factory Sako TRG ammo using 136 gr Lapua Scenar L bullet is crazy accurate. Euro Optics sells it by the case for a decent price, I'm pretty consistently getting .3 MOA out to 305 yards with an Accuracy International AT-X. Hornady 140 ELD-M is also tight at 100, but I haven't tried it much at 300+. Side note, factory Berger ammo comes loaded with Lapua brass, so I bought a case of that ammo to use the brass. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:46:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Made up a ladder for the new Creedmoor rifle:
Peterson virgin brass run through the Sinclair 6.5 expander mandrel Sierra 120 SMK (Midway seconds for barrel break in and fire forming brass) 5 each of IMR 4166 @ 36.0, 36.5, 37.0, 37.5, 38.0, 38.5 REM 7.5 SRP COL = 2.750” I used 4166 because I have 2 lbs of it I want to use up and it looks like a good powder for 120’s. Made some additional sighters at 36.0 grains. I also figured out I’ll need a new cleaning rod as all of mine are too short! 
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Posted: 6/16/2023 6:23:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#10]
Intersting trigger choice for a precision build. I'm a 2-stage man for that nice 1.5# final break on a safe 4.5# total trigger - but that's me. I personally would have gone for a SFAR style reciever set, to help match the weight savings benefits of the advanced technology light barrel, and get the center of gravity back a bit.
That said, very handsome build, and I bet it shoots like a dream. Look forward to your upcoming load and performance report. If you want a fun cheap plinker ultra light recoil load, the 90 TNT bullet will surprise, very very accurate, and very cheap too. For reaching out further, the Nosler basic 140 gr HPBT is actually a pretty good and cost effective bullet. I have a low opinion on most of their other ones, but that one is good. The Lapua Scinar 136 is a tack driver. A nice secret weapon load is the SMK 107 HPBT. Crazy accurate, exceptional BC for its weight - and it gets there fast Try it, You'll be surprised. For the light bullets, 4166 and 4064 serve well. And of course 4350 for heavier - though RE16 is my favorite. For 1200 yard shooting, I just run 147 Hornady. As a nice general purpose load, I actually like Hornady 129 SST. |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 6:14:52 PM EDT
[#11]
My Proof barrel on my 6.5 Creedmoor works well, although I went 22".
For loading, it seems to like the heavier bullets. I have messed with H4350, IMR4350 and StaBALL 6.5. All have worked well. I use Hornady factory brass that I have fired through each (keep them separated). I got Peterson brass for my 6.5 PRC bolt gun. The brass I have for when I had one AR10 chambered in 6mm Creedmoor is Peterson SRP. It is nice brass. I don't load to get the highest velocities, but nodes I usually find are in the upper middle of the tables. Both put nice groups in with those loads The Aero upper and lower I have work well. I went with a standard HP BCG from RCA on the Proof build. My other 6.5 as a standard BCG running a JP HP Bolt. The Proof needed to heavy springs and weights (H2) on the SCS while the other only standard spring with H2 on its SCS. Adjusting the gas was easy and mine will run with or without a can. I have been using my Saker on both, but think I will switch to Xeno mount and run my Nomad on the Proof. So far it has only seen duty on my 6.5 PRC. I hope you enjoy your rifle and load development as much as I have enjoyed mine. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a great cartridge and it has worked really well for me in this platform. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 4:08:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Got my scope mounted, got in my new cleaning rod and went over the bore a few times and took some bore pictures. I may get out this weekend if the weather gets better and break her in!
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 7/5/2023 7:29:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZA206]
[#13]
Picked up two boxes of FGMM and got some measurements…. Added them to my list:
Ammo - Head Space - Cartridge Base to Ogive: Hornady 147 ELDM - 1.559" - 2.158" Hornady 140 ELDM - 1.558" - 2.185" Norma 143 Golden Target - 1.557" - 2.152" Berger 140 Hybrid Target - 1.556" - 2.127" Berger 130 Hybrid OTM Tac - 1.556" - 2.191" Berger 144 LR Hybrid Target - 1.555" - 2.127" Federal GMM 130 Berger OTM -1.555” - 2.162” (COL = 2.785”) Federal GMM 140 SMK - 1.555” - 2.185” (COL = 2.705”) Unfired/new Peterson SRP brass, HS = 1.557" Also took measurements from the fired Peterson and Norma brass I used in the first range session… Norma headspace = 1.562” Peterson headspace = 1.563” |
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 1:24:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#14]
SAAMI cartridge spec is 1.5368" to 1.5438" using a 0.400" datum for measurement.
SAAMI chamber spec is 1.541" to 1.551" using a 0.400" datum. All of your measurements are too large (by a lot). Did you use the proper datum bushing? |
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Posted: 7/8/2023 5:21:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: SAAMI cartridge spec is 1.5368" to 1.5438" using a 0.400" datum for measurement. SAAMI chamber spec is 1.541" to 1.551" using a 0.400" datum. All of your measurements are too large (by a lot). Did you use the proper datum bushing? I used the 6.5 Hornady bullet insert (I had to buy it because 6.5 wasn’t in my original set). Again, this is using the Hornady comparators, which probably aren’t really a true gauge. On the shoulder bushing, I just used what was in my set and listed on the chart for 6.5CM. |
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Posted: 7/21/2023 11:25:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mc556]
[#16]
The 6.5c is pretty easy to get exceptional results with.
I’ve been using the Hornady match dies with the Redding bushings. H4350 with lapua 139s is silly accurate and not sensitive to seating depth. Not a great bullet to hunt with. The Hornady ELD line is also excellent but were a bit picky on seating depth. I’ve shot 3 white tails with the ELD-X. Two bang flops and one that made it 25 yards. It’s such a great cartridge. It’s really the victim of its own success with so many haters. IE it was so cool at the start that it became uncool. One thing to note that may help a few of you. Due to my primer supply I started using Lapua small primer brass with CCI 41s. I’ve had no issues whatsoever beteeen those and the CCI 450 primers on SD. Unless things have changed there wasn’t any info on using that primer with this combo. I’m a sample of one. Both rifles I shoot in 6.5 have Bartlien barrels ( bolt actions) |
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Posted: 7/21/2023 6:35:06 PM EDT
[#17]
I will second the Lapua 139 Scenar’s. Very easy to load for and very accurate in both my Creedmoor’s. For powder H4350 is hard to beat. The SR Lapua brass is great because I have a lot of Srp’s.
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Posted: 7/24/2023 12:02:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Need some opinions from you guys...
So far, I've got maybe 40 rounds through the barrel. I cleaned it well and am planning on my future workups. At this point, I have a bunch of factory ammo and no reloads made up yet. After looking over the brass from my first session, it looks like it was getting beat up (ejector swipes and some extractor marks), so I ordered two of the tungsten weights for the SCS buffer to get it to H2. I may order a 3rd later on to get it to H3 if needed. I'm already using the stiffest JP spring with the SCS, so going stiffer probably isn't an option. I've got two trains of thoughts here (need the opinion on): #1 - Holding off on making any more reloads until I get the rifle to stop beating up the brass and so I can see what ammo it likes. This will also let me harvest some of the factory brass while also breaking in the barrel, and do final tuning of the gas system. #2 - Save the factory ammo for later (for when the barrel is broken in and the gas tuning settled) and keep tinkering with cheap load workups (123 gr Sierra blems) to do the break in (original plan) and tuning. I could use new Peterson brass for this, or I could reuse the once fired (and a little beat up) brass for this, basically sacrificing it to the "tuning" Gods (LOL). As a side note, I bought a box of 140 and 147 ELDM's because they were on sale, so those will probably be used in the first rounds of "real" load development before I move on to buying other brands of bullets. Thanks guys... -ZA |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 12:13:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#19]
You could just adjust the gas down some, most 6.5 CM AR10's have adjustable gas blocks. (Maybe you said it doesn't, and I missed that)
As to small primed brass, both I and Johnny's Reloading can tell you a CCI450 and a CCI41 are very much not the same in 6.5CM. Run the 41's if you want greater assurance of avoiding hangfires. This shows up with loads with a lot of void space. Matters less in nearly full casing of a nice stick powder with corners to light on fire, like 4350. Or just run large rifle primers as it's supposed to be in the first place As to headspace, the compartor isn't a direct measure, just a comparison. And OP should probably split the difference on his reloads sizing |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 12:24:40 PM EDT
[#20]
I can tell you from personal experience that it's damn difficult to slow bolt velocity with a carbine-length buffer. A Slash carbine heavy buffer PLUS a Tubbs flat recoil spring, SLR AGB adjusted to minimal settings, a JP FMOS bcg...and I still fought early bolt unlock with hot reloads and some factory ammo (FGMM 130gr berger).
If I could do it again, I'd start with a heavy rifle buffer. I wanted to keep my UBR Gen1, but it cost me a lot of time and additional money testing and tinkering. FWIW, 22" Kreiger barrel with RLG (wished it was +1), Maten set, geissele mk4, geissele HSNM trigger, JP FMOS bcg, UBR Gen1, Tubbs flat wire, slash heavy buffer, SLR AGB. |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 12:55:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rob78: I can tell you from personal experience that it's damn difficult to slow bolt velocity with a carbine-length buffer. A Slash carbine heavy buffer PLUS a Tubbs flat recoil spring, SLR AGB adjusted to minimal settings, a JP FMOS bcg...and I still fought early bolt unlock with hot reloads and some factory ammo (FGMM 130gr berger). If I could do it again, I'd start with a heavy rifle buffer. I wanted to keep my UBR Gen1, but it cost me a lot of time and additional money testing and tinkering. FWIW, 22" Kreiger barrel with RLG (wished it was +1), Maten set, geissele mk4, geissele HSNM trigger, JP FMOS bcg, UBR Gen1, Tubbs flat wire, slash heavy buffer, SLR AGB. Good advice here ^. I’ve got 22” RLG and +2. From here on out, I’d only go +2. The only way I’d go RLG would be an 18”. I went +3 on my 24” 6creed. |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 1:37:45 PM EDT
[#22]
My Proof is a +2" gas system, but the carrier is their LMOS (low weight) carrier. I'm running a Superlative Arms bleed off adjustable gas block and most of the 40-ish rounds I fired would NOT lock the bolt back (I was adjusting it as I went and had it running 100% lock back by the last 10-15 rounds or so).
The light carrier and the standard "carbine" weight buffer setup are most likely the culprits to the brass getting chewed up. I got both of them on a smoking sale, otherwise, I'd have gone with the heavier setups right off the bat. Anyway, I should get the JP tungsten weights in this week, so my next shooting session will be with it in the heavier config. I'll report back on my results. |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 3:29:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: Good advice here ^. I’ve got 22” RLG and +2. From here on out, I’d only go +2. The only way I’d go RLG would be an 18”. I went +3 on my 24” 6creed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: Originally Posted By rob78: I can tell you from personal experience that it's damn difficult to slow bolt velocity with a carbine-length buffer. A Slash carbine heavy buffer PLUS a Tubbs flat recoil spring, SLR AGB adjusted to minimal settings, a JP FMOS bcg...and I still fought early bolt unlock with hot reloads and some factory ammo (FGMM 130gr berger). If I could do it again, I'd start with a heavy rifle buffer. I wanted to keep my UBR Gen1, but it cost me a lot of time and additional money testing and tinkering. FWIW, 22" Kreiger barrel with RLG (wished it was +1), Maten set, geissele mk4, geissele HSNM trigger, JP FMOS bcg, UBR Gen1, Tubbs flat wire, slash heavy buffer, SLR AGB. Good advice here ^. I’ve got 22” RLG and +2. From here on out, I’d only go +2. The only way I’d go RLG would be an 18”. I went +3 on my 24” 6creed. I bought a spare Kreiger; same set up as the first because it was on sale (when Fulton Armory used to sell them). I'd really like to get the port welded up and then redrilled at a +2 length. I just don't know anyone that does it. I'd set my mind to just getting a PRS stock w/rifle buffer when I rebarrel. |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 3:30:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: My Proof is a +2" gas system, but the carrier is their LMOS (low weight) carrier. I'm running a Superlative Arms bleed off adjustable gas block and most of the 40-ish rounds I fired would NOT lock the bolt back (I was adjusting it as I went and had it running 100% lock back by the last 10-15 rounds or so). The light carrier and the standard "carbine" weight buffer setup are most likely the culprits to the brass getting chewed up. I got both of them on a smoking sale, otherwise, I'd have gone with the heavier setups right off the bat. Anyway, I should get the JP tungsten weights in this week, so my next shooting session will be with it in the heavier config. I'll report back on my results. When I finally figured mine out, about the worst thing I'd see was a slightly dented case mouth. I was still getting 9-10 reloads out of Hornady brass. Prior to that, it just trashed brass. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/24/2023 3:32:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: I used the 6.5 Hornady bullet insert (I had to buy it because 6.5 wasn’t in my original set). Again, this is using the Hornady comparators, which probably aren’t really a true gauge. On the shoulder bushing, I just used what was in my set and listed on the chart for 6.5CM. Mine is an original Stoney Point gauge from before Hornady bought them. I checked the diameters on my bullet comparators and headspace datums and they were the proper sizes, so I think of them as gauges, not simply comparators. Did Hornady get "sloppy" in this regard? I ask because your numbers are way off. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/24/2023 3:35:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mc556: It’s such a great cartridge. It’s really the victim of its own success with so many haters. IE it was so cool at the start that it became uncool. I've not heard any hate of the 6.5 Creedmoor. What's the issue(s)? I shoot a 6XC, a previous wunderkind which seems to have fallen out of favor to the Creedmoor cartridges. Mine still does everything I ever wanted it to do. If anything, it is better than when new - better powders, better bullets, better factory brass. |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 3:47:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I've not heard any hate of the 6.5 Creedmoor. What's the issue(s)? I shoot a 6XC, a previous wunderkind which seems to have fallen out of favor to the Creedmoor cartridges. Mine still does everything I ever wanted it to do. If anything, it is better than when new - better powders, better bullets, better factory brass. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Originally Posted By mc556: It’s such a great cartridge. It’s really the victim of its own success with so many haters. IE it was so cool at the start that it became uncool. I've not heard any hate of the 6.5 Creedmoor. What's the issue(s)? I shoot a 6XC, a previous wunderkind which seems to have fallen out of favor to the Creedmoor cartridges. Mine still does everything I ever wanted it to do. If anything, it is better than when new - better powders, better bullets, better factory brass. Oh you'll hear it. Mostly because the 6.5CM love got insufferable, so its a natural reaction from the .308 boys. And when in such circles, I purposely switch to calling it 6.5 Jesusmoor. 
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USA
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Posted: 7/24/2023 6:05:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Oh you'll hear it. Mostly because the 6.5CM love got insufferable, so its a natural reaction from the .308 boys. And when in such circles, I purposely switch to calling it 6.5 Jesusmoor. Well, I have a 308 barrel for this rifle and a 260 Remington barrel, as well. So I have it covered. 
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Posted: 7/24/2023 8:35:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Mine is an original Stoney Point gauge from before Hornady bought them. I checked the diameters on my bullet comparators and headspace datums and they were the proper sizes, so I think of them as gauges, not simply comparators. Did Hornady get "sloppy" in this regard? I ask because your numbers are way off. IIRC… I may have bought this comparator set before any of the Creedmoor cartridges were developed. I know the headspace comparator I’m using to measure my 6.5CM brass isn’t specifically for 6.5CM, so it’s going to be off the “right number” no matter what. I’m using it as a comparator where I reference off new factory brass and stuff shot out of my rifle and the brass as it comes out of the resizing die. That’s all I really need to know. |
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Posted: 7/24/2023 8:36:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Also…
What are y’all’s thoughts on this: I've got two trains of thoughts here (need the opinion on): #1 - Holding off on making any more reloads until I get the rifle to stop beating up the brass and so I can see what ammo it likes. This will also let me harvest some of the factory brass while also breaking in the barrel, and do final tuning of the gas system. #2 - Save the factory ammo for later (for when the barrel is broken in and the gas tuning settled) and keep tinkering with cheap load workups (123 gr Sierra blems) to do the break in (original plan) and tuning. I could use new Peterson brass for this, or I could reuse the once fired (and a little beat up) brass for this, basically sacrificing it to the "tuning" Gods (LOL). |
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USA
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Posted: 7/25/2023 12:31:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: IIRC… I may have bought this comparator set before any of the Creedmoor cartridges were developed. I know the headspace comparator I’m using to measure my 6.5CM brass isn’t specifically for 6.5CM, so it’s going to be off the “right number” no matter what. I’m using it as a comparator where I reference off new factory brass and stuff shot out of my rifle and the brass as it comes out of the resizing die. That’s all I really need to know. 6.5 Creedmoor uses the same datum diameter as 308 Winchester and 243 Winchester - 0.400". 30-06 uses a 0.375" diameter datum. I don't believe in barrel break in. It's a waste of perfectly good barrel life. In all my good barrels, I've yet to see a benefit. But that's just me. |
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Posted: 7/25/2023 12:48:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I don't believe in barrel break in. It's a waste of perfectly good barrel life. In all my good barrels, I've yet to see a benefit. But that's just me. I’m not a fan of break in for bolt guns, but with gas guns, the first 15-25rds can help smooth out any burrs that may have been left at the gas port. Clean after these rounds and the barrel can improve drastically if initial results weren’t meeting expectations. During the first 50-125rds, barrels can and do speed up, regardless of bolt/gas gun. That said, if a barrel isn’t shooting great within the first 100rds, I pull it and go in a different direction. The 6.5creed has an easy button. H4350, 130AR hybrid OTM, 140eld, 147eld or 142smk seated at mag length. FGMM 130’s or Hornady 140 eld match ammo is my go to for factory ammo, or 140 American Gunner if you can find it. All have been sub MOA in multiple AR-10’s/bolt guns. |
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Posted: 7/25/2023 7:13:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ZA206]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: 6.5 Creedmoor uses the same datum diameter as 308 Winchester and 243 Winchester - 0.400". 30-06 uses a 0.375" diameter datum. I don't believe in barrel break in. It's a waste of perfectly good barrel life. In all my good barrels, I've yet to see a benefit. But that's just me. On the current Hornady comparators, 6.5CM and 308 Win are different units.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/25/2023 7:25:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: Also… What are y’all’s thoughts on this: I've got two trains of thoughts here (need the opinion on): #1 - Holding off on making any more reloads until I get the rifle to stop beating up the brass and so I can see what ammo it likes. This will also let me harvest some of the factory brass while also breaking in the barrel, and do final tuning of the gas system. #2 - Save the factory ammo for later (for when the barrel is broken in and the gas tuning settled) and keep tinkering with cheap load workups (123 gr Sierra blems) to do the break in (original plan) and tuning. I could use new Peterson brass for this, or I could reuse the once fired (and a little beat up) brass for this, basically sacrificing it to the "tuning" Gods (LOL). Factory ammo is for creating brass for reloading. Use factory ammo to get your tuning done. From there, you can fine tune for reloads using your gas block. JMHO. No sense in eating up new brass. As you've seen, it will get mangled until you get everything set up. I mean, you can iron out dented case mouths and shoulders, but you can't do anything with bent rims and blown primer pockets. |
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Posted: 7/25/2023 7:33:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: I’m not a fan of break in for bolt guns, but with gas guns, the first 15-25rds can help smooth out any burrs that may have been left at the gas port. Clean after these rounds and the barrel can improve drastically if initial results weren’t meeting expectations. During the first 50-125rds, barrels can and do speed up, regardless of bolt/gas gun. That said, if a barrel isn’t shooting great within the first 100rds, I pull it and go in a different direction. The 6.5creed has an easy button. H4350, 130AR hybrid OTM, 140eld, 147eld or 142smk seated at mag length. FGMM 130’s or Hornady 140 eld match ammo is my go to for factory ammo, or 140 American Gunner if you can find it. All have been sub MOA in multiple AR-10’s/bolt guns. All this. I had excellent luck with 142smk, 147 eldm, 140eldm out of my barrel. I shot the berger 130s for a while but they got pushed around at distances beyond 800yds (well, moreso than the 140/142). H4350 and Reloder 16 are great in 6.5cm. I won't post my RL16 w/142smk formula, but its a monster with single digit SD, high velocities, and very flat. I will say that in my semi-auto, a mag length 140eldm in Hornady brass with 41.6gr of h4350 very closely approximates the factory cartridge with better SD and es. |
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Posted: 7/25/2023 12:33:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: On the current Hornady comparators, 6.5CM and 308 Win are different units. I'll check the SAAMI web site again, just to be sure, but that's where I got the info I posted above. Certainly it would explain why your measurements are all way too long relative to the SAAMI spec dimensions for the cartridge. If you have the #D400 (0.400" diameter) bushing, perhaps from 308, re-measure using that and see if it brings the numbers into alignment with the specs. |
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Posted: 7/25/2023 12:45:39 PM EDT
[#37]
This is directly from SAAMI. It shows 0.400" diameter as the datum dimension. There are no updates for this cartridge after this was published.
Hornady has made a mistake. They should send you the proper bushing for your gage AND they should correct their catalog. I wonder how many incorrect bushings were sold. 
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Posted: 7/25/2023 12:53:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: I'll check the SAAMI web site again, just to be sure, but that's where I got the info I posted above. Certainly it would explain why your measurements are all way too long relative to the SAAMI spec dimensions for the cartridge. If you have the #D400 (0.400" diameter) bushing, perhaps from 308, re-measure using that and see if it brings the numbers into alignment with the specs. I have that comparator... I use it for 308. -ZA |
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Posted: 7/25/2023 2:56:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#39]
Using the smaller bushing would increase the reading by about 0.022".
If I deduct that amount from your earlier data (post #7), the values are closer to what they would be for factory ammo (which is almost always below SAAMI minimum by a little bit). |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:09:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZA206]
[#40]
Finally got out shooting again this morning. Had some nice success with the factory ammo!
All 5 shot groups except for the Norma, that was 7-8 shots. Brass looked much better after converting the JP SCS to H2 weight. I think I’m going to add one more tungsten weight and get it to H3 and it will be perfect. At this point, I’m fairly impressed with the Proof CF barrel. Seems like a keeper.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/31/2023 7:21:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: Finally got out shooting again this morning. Had some nice success with the factory ammo! All 5 shot groups except for the Norma, that was 7-8 shots. Brass looked much better after converting the JP SCS to H2 weight. I think I’m going to add one more tungsten weight and get it to H3 and it will be perfect. At this point, I’m fairly impressed with the Proof CF barrel. Seems like a keeper. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114221/IMG_1042_jpeg-2902988.JPG Looks like you're having some success. 29.9SD out of factory Hornady 140eldm is  . I gotta check my notes, but that seems high compared to my old stuff.The 130 berger looks very promising. The hybrid berger projectiles, namely the 140gr hybrid, are incredible. Unfortunately, the ogive is closer to the base and its near impossible to load them to mag length in a semi-auto. Single feed, they work very well. I'm betting that the addition of an extra weight and your barrel settling in is going to produce some great groups for you. |
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Posted: 7/31/2023 3:05:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rob78: Looks like you're having some success. 29.9SD out of factory Hornady 140eldm is . I gotta check my notes, but that seems high compared to my old stuff.The 130 berger looks very promising. The hybrid berger projectiles, namely the 140gr hybrid, are incredible. Unfortunately, the ogive is closer to the base and its near impossible to load them to mag length in a semi-auto. Single feed, they work very well. I'm betting that the addition of an extra weight and your barrel settling in is going to produce some great groups for you. It was only 5 shots or so for each factory load, but I agree, the SD on the 140 ELDM wasn't great. It was better than the 109 SD I had on 6 shots of AAC (PSA's house brand) of 55 Vmax ammo.
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Posted: 8/11/2023 1:52:58 PM EDT
[#43]
I picked up two boxes of the Berger 130 OTM Hybrids and a box of Lapua Scenar -L 136’s to try out.
On the Bergers, I have the factory CBTO and velocity as a good starting point to shoot for. As for the 136 Scenars, I have no idea, but I’ve had multiple people recommend these bullets on multiple forums. I’m thinking about trying both of these with the H4350 first. I was planning on using the 140 & 147 Hornadys with Staball. Any advice on expected sweet spots are appreciated. ZA |
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Posted: 8/20/2023 4:23:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Another impressive day with the Aero Proof CF 6.5CM!
Seating depth trial with the 120 SMK “seconds” from Midway and IMR 4166. It really liked this load, I probably could have shot the last two groups (left two) better if I had waited, as I was fighting mirage because the barrel was hot. It also didn’t help that I was shooting into the sun.  Attached FileI also had added another tungsten weight to the JP SCS buffer to get it to H3. All the brass looked great, and the rifle ran perfectly! I also shot a little at the end with a suppressor and its function was 100%! I’ll probably get another 50 rounds through it so it’s fully broke in and the tweak the gas down a tad more to make the action even softer. I’m extremely impressed with the build over all and shocked at how easy it’s been to get great results with the Proof barrel and this cartridge. Yery satisfying. ZA |
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Posted: 8/21/2023 1:40:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZA206]
[#45]
I think my next experiment will be to load up the 120 SMK's at 2.770" and 2.740" COAL and maybe vary the neck tension. I have the Sinclair expander and turning mandrels and the prior experiments were done using virgin brass I ran over the expander mandrels. Since the turning mandrel is .001" smaller, I'm unsure if it will make a difference on the virgin brass. I guess I can measure some before and after hitting the with the mandrels and report back.
I like the 2.770" group because it looks like it was trying to get into the same hole, but the 2.740" group was really consistent in it's group center compared to the groups on either side of it (forgiveness). Maybe I should also try a set at 2.765".... hmmm... More testing!!! -ZA |
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Posted: 8/21/2023 4:37:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rob78]
[#46]
Try 140ELDM at 2.8" with 41.6gr H4350
You may need to fiddle with CBTO in your rifle, but that's a pretty consistent performer. Won't beat up your brass either. ETA: Full disclosure: I used trimmed Hornady brass, FGMM LRP. |
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Posted: 8/21/2023 5:18:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rob78: Try 140ELDM at 2.8" with 41.6gr H4350 You may need to fiddle with CBTO in your rifle, but that's a pretty consistent performer. Won't beat up your brass either. ETA: Full disclosure: I used trimmed Hornady brass, FGMM LRP. It’s on my to do list!!! I need to make more Hornady brass!!!! |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 11:04:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: It’s on my to do list!!! I need to make more Hornady brass!!!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: Originally Posted By rob78: Try 140ELDM at 2.8" with 41.6gr H4350 You may need to fiddle with CBTO in your rifle, but that's a pretty consistent performer. Won't beat up your brass either. ETA: Full disclosure: I used trimmed Hornady brass, FGMM LRP. It’s on my to do list!!! I need to make more Hornady brass!!!! I've got some loads I cooked up for my semi-auto. The 140eldm load is from memory, but I will get my notes and provide you with some that worked well in my rifle. If you have any RL16, it works well in semis IME (also less recoil and higher speeds). I loaded some "lasers" with 142SMKs...hot round with single digit SD...but it will kill your brass in about 4 firings. |
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Posted: 8/23/2023 9:34:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZA206]
[#49]
Based on the last outing, I loaded up some more test loads for the Proof 6.5CM.
Still rocking the 120 SMK blems Virgin Peterson SRP brass REM 7.5 primers 37.0 grains of IMR 4166 I made up 10 of each of the following seating depth/COL’s that were split into two 5 rounds groups of neck tensions. 2.770” 2.765” 2.740” The neck tensions were set using the Sinclair 6.5mm expander and turning mandrels. The workups to this point had all been made with the expander mandrel which is .001” larger than the turning mandrel. Bullet seating force on the cases hit with the turning mandrel was definitely higher (more neck tension), but certainly not excessive. Here is the completed set on my bench (3 sighters/foulers).  Attached FileI’ll also be shooting more of the Norma to harvest the brass as the gun doesn’t really care for that load, and I’ll also be shooting more of the Hornady 140 & 147 ELDM I have. I figure after this next range trip the barrel should be broken in and I should have a decent collection of brass to start reloading the good bullets! Stay tuned… more to come! Oh yea…. Here is a picture of my range and shooting setup (yes, I shoot prone out of the bed of my truck)…  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/3/2023 10:41:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Shot some of the blem 120 SMK’s doing a seating depth and neck tension test. Not bad. One thing I noticed during my range trip trip was that almost ALL loads with this rifle and my Bartlein 223 shot better when doing neck expansion using the Sinclair turning mandrel instead of the expanding mandrel I had been using for a while. The turning mandrel is -.001” smaller in OD resulting in higher neck tension.
 Attached File |
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