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Recently acquired garand (Page 1 of 2)
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Posted: 11/6/2020 4:05:07 PM EST
First— many thanks in advance for your help.

So I have this garand, unfortunately it needs a little TLC (sad).
Winchester s/n indicates October 1945.

Where can I get info on the various cartouche marks? I’d like to know where it has been.
I’m also going to need some parts, namely the buttplate is badly rusted and there is surface rust on the trigger guard and sling mounts.

I hope to shoot it after going over it thoroughly, but from what I can see of the internals it seems in good shape.

Also- the small hand guard closest to the muzzle. Is the lower portion supposed to be open, exposing (what I assume) is the gas tube? This one is also very loose.
Link Posted: 11/6/2020 4:25:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By ronskibeat:
First— many thanks in advance for your help.

So I have this garand, unfortunately it needs a little TLC (sad).
Winchester s/n indicates October 1945.

Where can I get info on the various cartouche marks? I’d like to know where it has been.
I’m also going to need some parts, namely the buttplate is badly rusted and there is surface rust on the trigger guard and sling mounts.

I hope to shoot it after going over it thoroughly, but from what I can see of the internals it seems in good shape.

Also- the small hand guard closest to the muzzle. Is the lower portion supposed to be open, exposing (what I assume) is the gas tube? This one is also very loose.
View Quote


Congratulations and welcome to the Garand club.

Post some pics of the cartouches and we can let you know what they mean.

As for the rusty bits if they are original Winchester parts then I would try to clean them up rather than replace.  If they are not then it's no big deal changing them out.  Parts are plentiful still and not too bad price wise.

The front handguard should be open on the bottom and you will see the op rod through the gap.  The rattle is also normal.  Not ideal but normal.
Link Posted: 11/6/2020 6:17:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By ronskibeat:
First— many thanks in advance for your help.

So I have this garand, unfortunately it needs a little TLC (sad).
Winchester s/n indicates October 1945.

Where can I get info on the various cartouche marks? I’d like to know where it has been.
I’m also going to need some parts, namely the buttplate is badly rusted and there is surface rust on the trigger guard and sling mounts.

I hope to shoot it after going over it thoroughly, but from what I can see of the internals it seems in good shape.

Also- the small hand guard closest to the muzzle. Is the lower portion supposed to be open, exposing (what I assume) is the gas tube? This one is also very loose.
View Quote


If you can post pictures. We can help. Some books, M1 Garand 1936 to 1957 by Joe Poyer & Craig Riesch; Scott Duff's books;
M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine Complete Guide by Bruce Canfield.

Some new springs from Orion might be needed.

Welcome to the addiction known as 'Garanditis'  
Link Posted: 11/6/2020 7:40:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/6/2020 9:02:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/6/2020 9:06:00 PM EST by FluffyTheCat]
You have a Danish made barrel.  I believe that VAR stands for Weapons Arsenal in Danish
(Våbenarsenal)
Link Posted: 11/6/2020 9:03:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/6/2020 9:04:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 6:19:47 AM EST
ok. I assume it's normal to have various components replaced over the years? What should I consider a "red flag"?

I initially was only going to display this rifle, but that seems wrong-- it almost deserves to be used properly again. Does that sound weird?

The butt plate is heavily rusted-- the rifle was stored in a sock in someone's garage. Mice had eaten away at the fabric at ground level and moisture
got to the plate. Between the rust and the impregnated fibers of the sock, I couldn't even tell there was a trapdoor in the plate.

There may be a crack in the butt in the area where the lower screw (I think it goes into the strap swivel?) goes in-- the rust is severe enough that I am not sure if I can get the screws out.

I'm going to soak them in kroil.

Overall, the action is smooth, someone used grease properly, I need to see the bore yet.

I'll try to post up additional pics....
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 7:39:10 AM EST
Rather than soaking the screws to get them out and replace the buttplate, my suggestion would be to just replace the entire stock.  From the pic you posted, it appears that the stock is made of European beech wood.  Beechwood stocks have two things going against them.  #1.  They don't look really nice due to their "fish scale" type grain, especially when dyed. If you strip the stain, and sand them.  They are a pale yellow, which may turn color to a orangish tint. #2.  They aren't insetted properly.
My suggestion would be to go to eBay, or Gunbroker and check out Garand stocks. Many will be dirty, but clean up very nicely.
You can also find Boyds made aftermarket stocks.  They are decent, but then to have too much wood.  So don't like them since they feel "clubby".  I'm dealing with one now.
USGI stocks are what I prefer.  WW2 stocks are walnut, and usually a bit trimmer.  Post WW2 stocks can be walnut or birch, and have bit more meat in them.

If you want some help, shoot me a PM or an email, and I will help you out.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 8:10:05 AM EST
Roger that. Thank you!

I got up early (seems I’m succumbing to garand disease?) and started working on those screws.
So glad I bought a wheeler gunsmith screwdriver set earlier this year!

As expected, the long screw gave me all the trouble— it was touch & go there for a bit, but it’s off.

The stock is stamped “870258” with no other markings I can tell.

Will try to post more pics.

Due to the various cracks, replacing the stock is definitely on the table but we’ll see....
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 8:13:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/8/2020 12:32:55 PM EST by ronskibeat]
edit: removed pic
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 8:14:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 8:15:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 8:18:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 8:52:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 8:59:53 AM EST by SteelonSteel]
parts gun, through a rebuild at least in the land of Danish.  Perhaps more than one.

Replace parts at will, no guilt.   Var barrels are noted for fine accuracy above the norm.   I hope that is in good shape.  

A walnut replacement stock, a used trap door buttplate with new sling loop and screws.   Move the handguard clip and front ferrule over.  carefully bend the two tabs over on the front handguard and move the three metal pieces over.

All that said, if the op rod spring is not broken and meets minimum length standards (not collapsed in length or worn out) the gun is shootable even with the nasty buttplate.  

Shoot it and see if the accuracy is acceptible.  Our army standard was a 4” mean radius I think at 200.   Someone will correct me if my recollection is off.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 9:06:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 9:17:13 AM EST by ronskibeat]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
parts gun, through a rebuild at leadt in the land of Danish.

Replace parts at will, no guilt.   Var barrels are noted for fine accuracy above the norm.   I hope that is in good shape.  

A walnut replacement stock, a used trap door butt plate with new sling loop and screws.   Move the hand guard clip and front ferrule over.  carefully bend the two tabs over on the front handguard and move the three metal pieces over.
View Quote


excellent! Thanks!

Have it field stripped-- here's some more numbers:

op rod- D35382 9 SA
lower receiver (near the front linkage pin)- D28291-2
also hand engraved on the lower receiver- SA 4-65

stamped on the underside (below the rear sight, against the stock and hidden from view- a large "P" and smaller "N"

also stamped on the frame near the bullet guide- "A" and "H"


this is going to be so much fun! I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl! LOL....

edited to add-- after getting the butt plate off, I see that one of the storage holes has a slip of paper deep down there and the other has what looks like a small can of grease?
hope to get those out-- maybe the paper has something interesting!
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 9:24:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 9:30:22 AM EST by Sailormilan2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ronskibeat:


excellent! Thanks!

Have it field stripped-- here's some more numbers:

op rod- D35382 9 SA
lower receiver (near the front linkage pin)- D28291-2
also hand engraved on the lower receiver- SA 4-65

stamped on the underside (below the rear sight, against the stock and hidden from view- a large "P" and smaller "N"

also stamped on the frame near the bullet guide- "A" and "H"


this is going to be so much fun! I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl! LOL....

edited to add-- after getting the butt plate off, I see that one of the storage holes has a slip of paper deep down there and the other has what looks like a small can of grease?
hope to get those out-- maybe the paper has something interesting!
View Quote



The D28291-2 is the drawing number.  The "D" indicates the drawing size, and the -2 is the revision number.  Springfield, being the Government run always incorporated all improvements as the came, and thus the "Dash" number was always changing.  Winchester, being a private company building on a contract, stuck with the contract until the contract ended and a new one was issued.  Almost all [email protected] Winchester are a "-2" revision. With that high of a serial number, more than likely you will not have a "lead dipped heel".   To prevent heel cracking, the heels, and in Winchester's case the bottom of the rear receiver legs, were dipped in molten lead, which affected the heat treated.  It annealed them, making them less brittle and less susceptible to cracking.  This treatment caused a change in color when the receivers were parkerized. The heels, and other treated parts, would become darker when parkerized.  Sometimes it is hard to tell.  I took me forever to notice the lead dipped heel only WW2 Springfield.
The "SA 4-65" should be a Government rebuild date.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 9:34:20 AM EST
From the butt stock tubes: I cannot make out the writing tho....
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 10:09:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 10:14:30 AM EST by FluffyTheCat]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ronskibeat:
From the butt stock tubes: I cannot make out the writing tho....https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/368640/B83DBF33-E154-4383-802D-54AE4A8B3C00-1673452.jpg
View Quote


I think that word that begins with "v" is the Danish word, "visir", which means sight.

The word at the top is "højde", which means elevation.  There's also the number 19 on the top row and the number "2" at the bottom.

So I'm guessing it means 19 clicks of elevation to zero at 200 meters.  If the writing was clearer I could tell you for sure.

But that word in the top row is "højde", so I am fairly certain.


Link Posted: 11/7/2020 10:18:19 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:


I think that word that begins with "v" is the Danish word, "visir", which means sight.

The word at the top is "højde", which means elevation.  There's also the number 19 on the top row and the number "2" at the bottom.

So I'm guessing it means 19 clicks of elevation to zero at 200 meters.  If the writing was clearer I could tell you for sure.

But that word in the top row is "højde", so I am fairly certain.


View Quote
we need the goose! @dkprof
Lol... considering it’s got a danish barrel, it makes sense that someone would have marked down sighting info-yes?
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 10:27:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 10:31:43 AM EST by FluffyTheCat]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ronskibeat:
we need the goose! @dkprof
Lol... considering it’s got a danish barrel, it makes sense that someone would have marked down sighting info-yes?
View Quote


The written Danish language has many similarities with Afrikaans.  For example the word, "sight" in Afrikaans is "visier" and it is "visir" in Danish.  If I could only read that guy's handwriting, I could tell you for sure.

ETA: At the bottom it probably is "vis.", which probably is the abbreviated form of the word, "visir"
And at the top it might be "høj.", the abbreviated version of "højde"


Link Posted: 11/7/2020 10:42:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 11:11:34 AM EST by FluffyTheCat]
Is the bore rusted?  Because if the bore is in good shape, you will have a good shooter. VAR barrels are excellent.

Before shooting it, check the headspace. You have a Winchester receiver, a VAR barrel and a Springfield bolt and you want to make sure that combination headspaced properly.


If that was my rifle, I would replace the stock and handguards.  Read this thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Garand-Stocks/6-492124/
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 10:52:28 AM EST
havent looked at the barrel yet-- hope it's good. Never even handling a garand, I am taking it slow and have only field stripped it so far.

There is some surface rust on the outside of the trigger housing and floorplate to deal with as well. The internals are clean so far.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 10:55:03 AM EST
You can keep an eye open on the Dupage Trading website for a stock.  Ebay or the CMP M1 Garand parts for sale. as well.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 12:15:00 PM EST
Houston, we may have a problem!

In the middle of detail stripping and am unable to separate the op rod from the bolt.
Something doesn’t look right....
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 12:35:50 PM EST
That looks like rub marks from a defective op rod. Look at the inside surfaces of the op rod and see if you see matching wear marks. If not, I wouldn't worry at this point. If you see matching wear marks, I would suggest a new op rod. You might have an op rod that is slightly bent, causing it to rub at the rear of it's travel.
Go with Springfield, they're usually cheaper than a Winchester op rod.
Though any brand will work.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 12:46:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sailormilan2:
That looks like rub marks from a defective op rod. Look at the inside surfaces of the op rod and see if you see matching wear marks. If not, I wouldn't worry at this point. If you see matching wear marks, I would suggest a new op rod. You might have an op rod that is slightly bent, causing it to rub at the rear of it's travel.
Go with Springfield, they're usually cheaper than a Winchester op rod.
Though any brand will work.
View Quote

my concern is the missing cutout needed for removing the op rod-- I think someone tried to fix a crack....
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 12:47:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 12:52:53 PM EST by FluffyTheCat]
I have a Winchester operating rod.  It needs to be rebuilt.   But it could be rebuilt by Columbus Machine.

I would be willing to trade this Winchester operating rod for the OP's op rod.


ETA: The receiver looks like it was welded.  Compare the two pictures:





Link Posted: 11/7/2020 12:47:59 PM EST
Looks like a weld was removed. The cut out for the bolt lug looks like it has weld undercut on the edge.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 12:54:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pepe-lepew:
Looks like a weld was removed. The cut out for the bolt lug looks like it has weld undercut on the edge.
View Quote

That’s my concern. Here’s a pic from a different angle- you can see how the cutout has filler in it. I cannot see any evidence of a crack on the opposite side but there is a hint of discoloration from heat in that area.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 12:58:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 1:00:50 PM EST by FluffyTheCat]
The rear bolt track on the OP's receiver is curved.  This is incorrect for a Winchester receiver.  A Winchester receiver should have the rear of the bolt track as a square cut.  Like this receiver.




There is also a suspicious notch at the lower edge of the rear bolt track.  That poor receiver has been messed with.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 1:09:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2020 1:29:00 PM EST by ronskibeat]
I am sad. The barrel is clean and bright... don't know what to do next.

Thought I had a shooter here, maybe not?
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 1:54:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:
The rear bolt track on the OP's receiver is curved.  This is incorrect for a Winchester receiver. A Winchester receiver should have the rear of the bolt track as a square cut.  Like this receiver.


https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/234818/OIP-1673715.jpg

There is also a suspicious notch at the lower edge of the rear bolt track.  That poor receiver has been messed with.
View Quote
False...early '44 WRA changed to round cuts.

Looks like a dril rifle receiver however...

Need to see around the barrel threads area under the handguards to see if thats true....
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 1:54:55 PM EST
If you remove the handguards, are there any signs of heat or welding on the receiver ring?

Wondering if you have a reactivated drill rifle on your hands.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:07:45 PM EST
They have butt plates for $25 on Amazon with free shipping if you have Prime.
M1 Garand butt plate
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:13:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:18:19 PM EST
The question is, is it a CMP Danish return rifle or did somebody just have an extra Danish Barrel around and slap it on a rebuilt receiver.
When I was in Denmark in 1977 the royal guards at the palace all had M1 Garands with bayonet attached.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:19:46 PM EST
I didn’t pay anything for this.
What’s the deal with a “drill rifle” are they unsafe?
Here is a pic of the joint between the receiver and barrel— look like a weld to me but only in that one spot.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:23:11 PM EST
And just FYI for comparison, you can get a pretty nice CMP special rack grade with new barrel and new walnut stock for $650.

Here is one I picked up last month.



Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:26:44 PM EST
The drill rifle was used just for marching, doing the manual of arms, they were not able to shoot, they were deactivated so that they'd be safe for high school ROTC or something like that. On a reactivated one they try to undo the welding or plugging of the barrel that was done to deactivate them. Sometimes it's more successful than others. If it was actually a demilled receiver that means it was cut in half and sold as scrap and then somebody welded it back together again. And again depending on how well the job was done it may be still safe to shoot or it may not be.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:31:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ztug:
The drill rifle was used just for marching, doing the manual of arms, they were not able to shoot, they were deactivated so that they'd be safe for high school ROTC or something like that. On a reactivated one they try to undo the welding or plugging of the barrel that was done to deactivate them. Sometimes it's more successful than others. If it was actually a demilled receiver that means it was cut in half and sold as scrap and then somebody welded it back together again. And again depending on how well the job was done it may be still safe to shoot or it may not be.
View Quote


There is definitely NO sign of welding to the other side indicating it had been demilled... Honestly, this looks like there had been a small crack in that area that someone tried to fix.
What I am trying to understand is-- did they do this with the rifle partially assembled? I can not figure out to remove the op rod without that cutout, and why, if you were going to weld a crack, would you not mill the cutout again?

Is that area prone to stress cracks? It doesn't seem like a high stress area...
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 2:34:27 PM EST

The barrel after a brush and swab. Best I do with my phone...
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 3:19:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/8/2020 12:40:33 PM EST by Quarterbore]
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 3:20:22 PM EST
U have a recovered dril rifle receiver that someone installed a danish parts kit on.


If that's the only sign of welding I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 3:35:52 PM EST
ok, so I have a bridgeport at work-- easy enough to open the groove enough to remove the op rod-- so you think that was intentionally done and NOT a crack repair?

following that, a go/no go gauge should determine if I should even try shooting it, correct?

Link Posted: 11/7/2020 3:56:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 3:58:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 4:05:14 PM EST
thank you! Can you explain the "tilt test"?
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 4:29:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ronskibeat:
ok, so I have a bridgeport at work-- easy enough to open the groove enough to remove the op rod-- so you think that was intentionally done and NOT a crack repair?

following that, a go/no go gauge should determine if I should even try shooting it, correct?

View Quote
go and FIELD gauge
Link Posted: 11/7/2020 5:04:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/8/2020 12:20:41 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ronskibeat:


There is definitely NO sign of welding to the other side indicating it had been demilled... Honestly, this looks like there had been a small crack in that area that someone tried to fix.
What I am trying to understand is-- did they do this with the rifle partially assembled? I can not figure out to remove the op rod without that cutout, and why, if you were going to weld a crack, would you not mill the cutout again?

Is that area prone to stress cracks? It doesn't seem like a high stress area...
View Quote

Welding evidence on a demilled receiver would be between the receiver legs, unlikely to be back where the cutout should be.
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