Based on what I’ve been reading in the pinned threads in this section, I don’t ever plan to use slugs. Hopefully find some number one buck shot. Hopefully doing so will completely tighten up the shot patterns on paper at the range at my expected distances, thus negating the need for a new barrel.

But yeah, I wouldn’t use slugs. I don’t know why the guy recommended using slugs in the last video I linked above. That’s why I’m hoping some of y’all can review those videos and tell me if they are legit or not. They are only a minute or two long each.

OP please don't take offense to this statement. I think you're kind of doing the same thing a lot of new gun owners do: you're buying a bunch of junk to hang on your new gun. I've been down that road and later put most of my guns back to original configuration.
From my experience all you need is: light (mounted differently that yours though), sling and one of those elastic shell holders on the stock and maybe a side saddle (mine are all velcroed on because I don't want to modify the gun)
I've had different stocks, railed forgrips, VFGs, red dots and other farkles and they've all been sent down the road.

Hmm. I see what you mean.

So so far on my Mossberg, I have ghost ring sights on the receiver with an accompanying front sight post welded on the barrel. I have a TLR-1 light on the left side of the slide (attached via the OEM picatinny), and that is it. I do now have an Esstac side saddle, which I am going to install tomorrow. I just need to get some isopropyl alcohol to clean and dry the side of the receiver before I stick the velcro on. I still do need a sling, but that's what I've been googling lately. And I need decent buckshot ammo. If #2 or 00 Buck groups tighter than the #8 birdshot I grouped earlier, then I may not need to swap out the barrel for a choked one, even though I would much prefer a choke over this "breacher barrel" thing.

Oh, and I have a broomstick handle on the bottom of my slide because the TLR-1 kept hitting my thumb and making it bleed while shooting.

I'm just putting so much thought into everything because I know this is the weapon I will end up reaching for in my current apartment.

Foregrips can cause you to torque the slide action in a manner it is not designed to be loaded. For lights the Streamlight and Surefire forends are really the way to go.

Here is an invaluable resource for the new (and experienced) shotgunner OP.

Bob Brister's Shotgunning The Art and The Science PDF Format

FWIW, a 2-point sling, WML, and a 12-13" LOP stock are the only things I add to a new shotgun. Less is more

Getting a shotgun barrel back bored is a way to tighten patterns with buck without needing to install chokes. Vang Comp does this.

In the alternative you could quit worrying about all the crap you want to hang off the shotgun and learn to shoot it well.  You are completely hung up on unimportant minutia that has nothing to do with going out and getting trigger time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that shotgun except its user. You don't need a sling right now. You don't need a side saddle right now. You don't need a new barrel right now. You don't need a light on it right now. You don't need a broomhandle on the foreend right now. You're sitting there trying to imagine any and all scenarios that you might use it in your apartment, thinking you're going to make the most ultimate shotgun ever.   What you're really doing is allowing situational mutation to override any actual critical thinking about what needs to be done first, which is actually become proficient with a shotgun.  All the money you're spending on unnecessary crap would be far, far better spent on practice ammo and range time.  Otherwise you're just locking yourself into a vicious cycle of mental masturbation about what kind of crazy shit is going to go down in your two bedroom apartment, and then on to whatever next shotgun modification you think you need to meet that imaginary scenario.  And you're still not any better at actually shooting the gun.

Okay, point taken. So I did that today. After exhaustively searching for 12 gauge buckshot. I found a couple boxes. So I spent a couple hours each night the past several nights dry practicing the skills taught in the videos I linked above while at home using 12 gauge snap caps: Shooting stance, firing and cycling rounds, "tossing" a shell into the open action via the 'under the receiver' method, firing two/topping off the magazine, etc. I've found that using the trigger guard on my Mossy 500 as an index spot, if I place the end of my hand, the "blade" of my hand against the trigger guard under the receiver, that lines my fingers up directly under the ejection port, and I naturallly find my way there to "toss" in the extra shell.

I probably spent about 30 rounds today at the range, initially recording data on groupings at about 6.4 meters (my HD distance). After initial patterning, I practiced rapid firing, fully emptying the shotgun, hearing the click of an empty chamber, opening the action and tossing a shell inside, closing it, and then topping off the magazine with another two. Shooting 2, topping off 2, shooting completely dry, chamber loading, and back and forth. I found that the technique of pushing and pulling while firing to control recoil as well as "riding the recoil" to pull back the slide did work as online tutorials suggest. All in all, there was no discomfort or pain. Due to limited availability of practice ammo, I used a mix of Winchester Super X #4 birdshot and MILI "custom defense ammunitions" 00 Buckshot (my current chosen HD ammo). It all fired and extracted with no issue. So it appears that the cause of my previous difficulty in extraction was ammo related. I do need more practice, but the hard part is finding enough of the Mili ammo to train with. With all the rapid fire today, and all my patterns still hitting center on my point of aim, I do feel much more comfortable with a HD engagement, but I do need more practice since this is my chosen HD setup. I'm planning ot head to Green Top to buy a few more boxes of the MILI ammo, if I can find it. Unfortunately they only allow customers to buy 20 rounds per day.

After the positive experience today, I can say that those who implored me to try another ammo type and spend some time shooting it, before making any mods to the shotgun were right in their advice. I have decided that using buckshot, I won't need to cut the barrel. My shotgun is setup fine as is. A choke would be nice, but it is not necessary, at least as far as I can tell. My 00 Buckshot pattern is about 8" at 6.4 meters. Is that too open of a group?

Any further advice is certainly appreciated.

Just curious, are you using the broom stick or did you move the light?

I kept the Streamlight TLR-1 in the same position (on the 9' o clock of the picatinny slide) with a Troy broomstick handle at the 6' o clock. With my hand on the broomstick, I can actuate my light with my thumb. I had no knuckle scrapes while using the broomstick today.

OK, I think I’ll throw in another question in addition to my long post above. So I’ve been hearing that people say that Mossberg 500s are not drop safe. At night time, I keep mine leading up against the wall next to my bed. But if something happens and it falls over, I don’t want it going off. I’ve been hearing about this set up called “cruiser ready.” Or even wondering if I should keep my shotgun in basic condition 3.

Most rifles/shotgun safeties simply block the trigger and lack a firing pin block. Cruiser ready is simply filling the magazine tube, but keeping chamber empty for absolute safety, yet quick into action. The only thing I recommend is swapping out your HD shells yearly. Even the best quality shells will deform over time from the constant spring pressure.

Well I actually unload and put away my shotgun shells every time I leave, and then reload the magazine to every time I’m back in the apartment. I don’t find it to be too much of a bother, and in fact I kind of enjoy loading and unloading it.

So why is cruiser ready any better than a condition 3 shotgun? With the Mossberg 500, my middle finger automatically rests across the slide release button. So the moment I grasp the shotgun in my right hand, the slide is unlocked by the time I get my support hand on it. My biggest “forget” is to forget to disengage the safety when I fire it. So I would consider keeping the shotgun condition 3 with the slide locked, but with the safety disengaged?

Stop doing that.  You're unnecessarily and prematurely wearing out the magazine tube spring with the constant loading and unloading.  Make it cruiser ready. Close the action on a verified empty chamber and empty magazine tube. Disengage the safety and leave it off. Pull the trigger. Load the magazine tube to capacity and quit screwing around with it.  You keep fooling around with it and you're going to have a negligent discharge, and your phobia about penetrating walls and injuring a neighbor will come true.

I mean whenever I put live ammo into the shotgun, they only go into and out of the magazine tube. I always unload the magazine by depressing the shell stop. I never unlock the slide or open the action. The only time I will ever open the action is after I have 100% verified that the magazine is empty, and to visually ensure that there is no round in the chamber. Everything I do with my shotgun is 100% planned out and deliberate. I could not possibly be any more safe with it.

That being said, I was under the impression that leaving the magazine loaded would be more detrimental to the life of the magazine spring than unloading it every time. It’s a good thing I’m asking all these questions here.

But that leaves me with another question, how does loading and unloading the magazine affect the springs any more than someone who shoots their shotgun regularly, constantly cycling rounds through the action?

It's been pretty well documented that it's cycling that wears out springs, not being under load constantly. That being said, springs are dirt cheap. I just replaced one in a mossberg 500. It was easier than I expected. Why do you feel the need to unload it every time you leave home? You should buy a safe or hide it somewhere real good.
ETA: it's not such a bad idea to unload it.

I have a safe with the rest of my firearms at my dad’s house. This is a newish apartment that I recently moved into, so I am waiting on my new safe in the mail via Home Depot. It should be here in less than a week. It's a Barska 4 gun biometric safe. Tiny, but reports are that the steel is solid. Once I’ve got it, I will feel comfortable keeping The shotgun condition 3 when locked inside.

Oh by the way, is an 8 inch group acceptable at about 6.4m (7 yds)? Is that too much spread?

Given all the talk, I was expecting it to be much tighter.

All things considered, that ammo does not seem that great.  Mili appears to be a fairly new manufacturer and there is little to no information on how their shells are constructed.  Don't know if it has any kind of shot cup, if there is buffering, or if the pellets are hardened/plated.  The lack of any of those things will contribute to greater pattern entropy.  There are members selling Federal Flight Control 00 buck on the equipment exchange right now for a premium price, and a site sponsor, Recoil Gunworks also has the Federal in stock for sale, $120 for 50 rounds.  It is my opinion that the Federal Flight Control buckshot is the gold standard for buckshot rounds.  All shotgun ammunition is in short supply and therefore very expensive right now.  You can shoot off a tube worth to ensure function and patterning and then leave it alone.

ETA:  Before you ask, here is a video that illustrates the difference between shot shells - Rio buckshot is unbuffered, has no shot cup and unplated/unhardened pellets, Federal Power Shok has buffering, a standard shot cup but unplated pellets, and the Federal Flight Control has buffering, the Flight Control wad/cup and plated pellets.  You can see the significant difference between the three, shot through a plain jane cylinder barrel bore similar to yours.  Given you 8 inch pattern at 7 yards I'd lean towards the theory that the Mili brand buckshot you're shooting is more similar to the Rio buckshot than either the Federal Power Shok or the Flight Control.  

I put the safety back on after pulling the trigger.

I was always told to "Stretch" a pump gun.

Push forward with the forearm to "drive" it toward the target.

Pull backwards with the grip into your shoulder pocket.

When the shotgun recoils, then continue the backwards movement of the forearm forcefully to eject & load next round.

BIGGER _HAMMER

Bird shot is for BIRDS.

Large Buckshot (0, 00, 1,) is proven effective to stop with a hit because it PENETRATES deep enough to reach vital organs.

#4 buck has lots of pellets, but many people consider #4 marginal for defense & hunting because of the small size of the pellets

Bird shot will make a mess, but often doesn't reach deep enough.

If you are worried a out over penetration, you should look up "Old Painless" "Box O' Truth" where he demonstrated the penetration distances of various shotshells with sheetrock walls.

BIGGER_HAMMER

Yeah, this thread has been enlightening since I asked that post. I read that Box o Truth page. I've decided to adopt 00 Buck as my HD load.

Hmm. In that video, the Federal flight control shot pattered just over 3" at 20 yards. My Mili is 8" at 7. I measured 4 different patterns on paper, and they all spread in the 6-8" pattern at that distance when measuring from the two most distant pellet holes. So it's not even close. This kind of makes me want to cut open one of these shells to see what they put inside. This is literally the ONLY large pellet buckshot I've been able to find in stores near me. Now shopping for 12 GA buckshot ammo has turned into a competition to find that best super secret fishing spot, using word-of-mouth leads, whisperings, and miles of traveling detective work.  

I might as well keep hunting online for better ammo.

Pretty sure I mentioned site sponsor Recoil Gunworks has the Federal Flight Control available in stock.

https://www.recoilgunworks.com/federal-tactical-12ga-buckshot-le132-50rd-p-26417.html

$2.40 a round! Holy shit!

So I signed up for a highly recommended defensive shotgun class run by some Green Ops shotgun instructors.

It requires 200 rounds of ammo. Since I don't want to waste any of my precious Buckshot ammo in this current political era, I asked the instructor if I could use birdshot or whatever else I can find. He said that's okay as long as I bring in some Buckshot for patterning and general familiarization. I do have 20 rounds of buckshot I can bring, no problem. But now I still need about 200 rounds of cheap practice ammo, that is still good enough that it will function reliably in my shotgun.

Going to shop online. Too bad they don't allow steel. I found 100 rounds of Winchester Super X for $40 on South Georgia Outdoors, which is mind blowingly cheap compared everything else I've seen on the market.

Whatever #7 1/2 or #8 birdshot you can get your hands on except for the Winchester.  Wolf, Nobelsport, Rio, whatever is fine.

Just ordered 4 boxes of this stuff.  https://grabagun.com/federal-cartridge-co-tg1275-12-top-gun-11-8-25-10.html

I know Federal is well regarded and I'm hoping these shells do the job. After my last two ammunition purchases, I'm feeling a bit cynical about the quality of various shotgun ammo.

$2.75 / round after shipping.  

Those ought to be just fine.  I used those a lot for 3-gun.

I never said it was cheap, just that it's available.

Okay, question time again. So first off, I know I will be taking a class where I can ask these questions, but until then, I’m wondering if any of you guys can shed light on this issue.

I have been doing reload drills using snap caps, and once in a while I would notice that my trigger would go slack after pumping the action. I waited for it to occur again and I hypothesized that the problem was that I wasn’t actually forcing the slide all the way forward in battery. So when it happened again, when I realized the trigger was slack, I pulled backward on the slide to realize that the slide was not fully locked in battery. I’m guessing that I am not chambering a fresh round assertively enough. But it feels like I’m really punching it forward fairly assertively. I’m worried about breaking something if I cycle the action too vigorously. How hard should I be pulling backward and pushing forward. Is it possible that my barrel is not seated properly after I reinstalled it when I swapped out the magazine cap? Should I lube the action? I don’t bother with my Mossberg often since I don’t shoot it often, so the action is likely pretty dry.

Weird, weird. Other weird things happen with this shotgun. On a few occasions, I’ll drop the hammer, eject the chambered round, and notice that the subsequent round remains in the magazine is not popping out onto the elevator. Even if I ensure that I pull the slide back all the way, it doesn’t pop out. I have to send the bolt home on an empty chamber, and then pull back the action a second time in order to get the round in the magazine to pop out onto the elevator.

Also, when I do cycle a fresh round out of the elevator, on occasion if the muzzle is pointed downwards at an angle, the new round will drop itself into the chamber. I find it weird that it doesn’t need the bolt to push it into the chamber. I am too used to rifles like that, if this is normal shotgun behavior.

I am feeling like a complete newbie with this shotgun today.

Spray some clp in the action.
Rack the slide like you're a pimp and she owes you some money.
Did the rounds ever fail to come out of the mag when you were shooting live rounds? Your plastic snap caps are probably not exactly the same as real ammo.

Yes of course.



Probably because it isn't properly lubricated.



Normal.



No offense there, but you're wondering aloud if you should lubricate your dry gun. If that isn't a noob, I don't know what is.

As someone else said, you seem to perseverate on minutiae, when you should be taking care of basic operation and of course maintenance.

Go back, read the manual, lubricate where recommended and make sure your gun is functioning as it should. If it isn't, then contact Mossberg who should make it right.

Again not trying to be a dick, but you seem like a feller that makes things a lot harder than they should be. It's a shotgun; it isn't the Human Genome Project.

Actually I did exactly that with a spray can of breakfree CLP about an hour ago. It feels smoother at least. And no, after I stopped using that Game&Target ammo that I started this thread with, I haven’t had any such issues like this while at the range. I didn’t have a single hiccup or hangup the last 30 or so rounds I fired while at the range.

I did a shell by a shell comparison of the snapcap versus the ammo that actually worked well, and I can’t tell if there are any dimensional differences in terms of one rim against the other rim. The snap cap ammo is definitely significantly shorter overall than the 2 3/4” ammo I’m currently using.

No offense taken. I’m completely new to this platform.

I’ve read people saying online that “Mossbergs resent being cleaned. They’re not ARs, Pump action shotguns eat whatever they’re fed and don’t need much maintenance. I never clean mine,” etc.

I break down and scrub all my semiauto rifles as soon as I get home because I don’t want the carbon to set in. I stripped down my Mossberg for cleaning a handful of times since I bought it, and it’s always a pain in the butt to position the bolt sled, side forks, etc whenever I reassemble it.

I guess I’ll start treating my shotgun more like how I treat my ARs.

But I still need a lot more knowledge on this weapon.

Not bad once you get a little more familiar. I build these shotguns all the time.

But one should be a little skeptical of anyone saying that any particular gun resents being maintained. It's a machine with moving parts and needs proper care like any other.

Even with the action thoroughly lubed using CLP, and wiped out with a rag, snapcaps are still resistant to leaving the magazine tube, whether I’m racking the action, or trying to use the shell stop to ease them out by hand.

I’m not going to 100% write this off as a snapcap problem until I head back to the range and cycle several live rounds through the action during testfiring for function.

OK, call me stupid if you want. I just did a test:

With the action locked closed on a verified empty chamber, the safety engaged, and the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, I loaded a single live round into the magazine tube, as normal ensuring that my thumb pushes it in deeper than the shell stop. Then I depressed the slide stop in order to extract the live round, and it came out smoothly. I slid it in one more time, Then opened the action to see if it would pop onto the elevator. It did, and then I promptly rolled it out of the action onto my hand.

I then followed the same test with another snapcap, and it was again stubborn to get out of the magazine tube, whether using the slide or the shell stop.

I am thinking AASG was right that it is an issue with the snapcaps. That would kind of suck because I do a lot of training at home using snap caps to rehearse loading, firing, and speed reloading. I’ve quickly gotten to the point where I can magazine or chamber load with my eyes closed. I’m wondering if the regular cycling of the snap caps through the action is causing them to wear, thus causing said feeding issues. These are just cheap transparent plastic ones with the little springs inside. I’m still going to take the shotgun to the range to live fire just to make sure.

He's probably right then. The rims take a beating when they get forced out of the mag tube. Even with metal rims, sometimes you'll see a little triangle-shaped dent on the head, can't imagine what it's doing to plastic.

You may want to switch to aluminum dummy rounds, again with the expectation that they may wear or come out-of-spec with repeated use.

But hey, still cheaper than blowing thru your ammo.

OP consider getting some of these dummy rounds.
They're made with normal shells and therefore have the brass.  They're made so they have weight close to normal ammo.  They can of course be used to dry fire.  They have the same weight and feel as a normal live round so they can really help practice loading, fire, and cycle through the rounds in the magazine.  

Well, I guess I should update this thread.

So I took the class this past Saturday. It went well. It was a full 8 hour day. Only 3 of us students, and I was the only one not using a semi-auto. First thing the guy told me was that training with a light on the forend is bad news. Likely to wear it out. So I removed it. We went over basic shotgunning stance, push-pull, and using recoil to actuate the slide. We then went over conducting emergency reloads, as well as topping off the magazine. They taught me the brass up AND brass down side saddle reloads. I think I'm preferring the brass down now, but I do need more time shooting to tell. We did target transitions and reloads, going through a full 25 rounds at a time, using a beep timer. So it was time pressured speed shooting. I hit all my targets though. It was a workout since my shotgun is heavy (the instructor said I have a lot of weight on it). We did a whole lot of speed shooting under stress. I did pretty good on all of that. My biggest issue was that I was new to it all, and training in a completely new manual of arms. I was also getting very familiar with the ins and outs of drawing the fresh round from the side saddle under time (I'm trying to say that it was stressful and hard, but it kind of forced us to do it without consciously thinking about it). That speed drill was VERY useful for seeing how that goes wrong. I definitely want to do more of that. We also learned to short index the weapon for close-in shooting (index finger to chest, AND short stocking over the shoulder). He also covered shooting from cover. I asked about taking a solid knee, which he was cool with, but I was easily the youngest person in the class. The entire class was done using birdshot. Then we finally patterned our buckshot on paper from 5 and 15 yards. And he gave me some slugs to pattern too, so to find a slug that matches our buckshot POI. He also discussed shotshell ballistics, and in-house dynamics, as well as storage conditions (cruiser ready and cruiser safe). He also covered the legal aspects of self-defense. I probably fired off about 270 rounds in the day. He also recommended I try a different brand of shotshell card. He said the Esstac ones are a bit stiff and harder to load up. I tried his (VangComp), and it was easier to use. I also used up the remainder of that crap ammo that I posted about in the beginning of this thread that was giving me so much trouble. I figured I might as well burn it up on top of the quality Federal ammo that I got. The potential for failures to extract could serve as good training, and it did happen a few times, so the ammo didn't disappoint in that regard.

All in all, it was a good day. I just want to go back  to the range and practice the skills we learned more. I'm gonna order more of that Federal ammo. Find a good range to do some more shooting drills that we were taught in the class.

So there were only 2 others in the class. I'm curious what demograph they were? Men women? Law enforcement, total newbs?
ETA: I'm glad you took the class, it sounds like you are learning your weapon.

There was one other guy, and one lady. Both in their 50s (I would guess), both with moderate experience with the shotgun. Neither law enforcement or anything. Just regular people. The lady seemed to be pretty well set-up, and with a nice ammo belt shell carrier, and talked about doing 3 gun. She seemed to know the instructor from previous classes. They both had semi-autos.