So I have a Mossy 500 Thunder Ranch edition, that is mostly stock.

I do have a Streamlight TLR-1 on the left picatinny portion if the slide. And I previously got ghost ring sights installed on the reciever, with accompanying front sight silver soldiered on the barrel. I am also ordering a broomstick handle for the slide so that the light quits scraping my thumb knuckle on firing.  

So a couple odd things I want to do with this shotgun.

1) I dislike that this shotgun cannot accept chokes. I didn't think about it when I bought it, but now it bothers me. So I have been actually considering paying a gunsmith to cut off the breacher muzzle device and cut threads into it. I'm not sure about the cost, but I've had one guy tentatively quote me just a bit over $100 to do the job. I think the whole breacher barrel bit thing is kind of a gimmick, and certainly one that I will never use.

2) Since my shotgun is also my HD weapon, I was thinking about updating the sights on it all together. Getting a picatinny rail installed on the receiver so I can put a reflex sight (like an aimpoint pro or Trijicon MRO) up there. The problem with that is that most reflex sights are designed for ARs. So I would need a way to raise the stock to heighten my cheek weld. Shotgun stocks are not like AR stocks. What do people typically do in these circumstances? Just build up a home made cheek piece? Buy a special stock that mimicks an AR15 sight line? I am planning on getting a reflex sight that I will swap between different platforms (primarily my AR and my shotgun, the two guns I plan to focus on the most).

3) Still shopping for a decent sling for it. Need something simple that I can toss over my shoulder in the middle of the night if someone comes a crashing at my back door or window at 3am.  Mine has a stud on the bottom part of the stock, and no attachment system at the front. I'm sure I'll find something if I continue shopping around, but if anyone knows of anything that really really works, I'm open to all suggestions. Don't need anything fancy.

4) This is a performance issue I've been having. I made a post about it in general, and I will copy and paste what I wrote there, to here:  

Encountered an issue last night while test firing my Mosberg 500, for all you experienced shotgunners. It didn’t happen every time, but maybe 50% of the time.

After I would fire a shot, the action would remain locked closed. It would require significant force to cycle the action and eject the spent shell. It felt like it was frozen stuck.

I contacted Mossberg and they suggested trying a different brand of ammo as they suggest the shells I’m using are expanding too much, making them difficult to extract.

I will try that, but I’ve read reports online that applying rearward pull on the slide while firing can cause it to lock up, and that instead one should apply “forward pushing pressure” on the slide while firing, and then pull back to cycle once you know the shot has “fired.”  I was considering getting the chamber polished, but someone mentioned that it might just need more "breaking-in" or it's just bad ammo.  My mossberg has probably had a little over 200 shells through it, so not a well worn shotgun. Last time I cleaned it (was last year), I used CLP. (the same I use on my AR).

I have no doubt that there is some operator error here, as I am not super experienced with the shotgun.

Thanks for the tip on the barrel. I will need to measure, certainly. Don't want to have any issues there. I was firing: Winchester Game & Target 12 GA, 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz, #8 shot.

Is it correct that rearward pull on the slide during firing can cause malfunctions? Someone else said I should push the slide forward during firing and then pull back once the shot has "fired."

If your mag cap/nut has a hole in the end it's threaded.
Same thread pattern as the fine thread sling studs.  

I'd see about finding another barrel with chokes already.  I have a 20in vent rib from the factory.
Especially if your barrel will be under 18 without the brake. I dont know if it will or not.    Mossberg barrels are pretty common.

Always push forward on the slide.  


Eta.  
Just get a shotcard or side saddle and some dummy rounds.    Practice loading and unloading. Practice mounting, firing and working the action.   Learn how to load the chamber from the shotcard. Learn how the load the mag from the shotcard.   Do it in the dark while using your WML.  

Use what you got til you can configure it the way you want.  

Also this.  It really sucks.

Winchester ammo jammed up my 870 also.

What are you planning on doing that you think you need a choke? I ask because that gun sounds like it's set up for slugs and buckshot. I realize sometimes a choke can help with buckshot, but you can also use flight control buckshot and get tighter groups. Save some money on the choke job. For across the room combat I don't need a choke.

That's all I can offer because your shotgun is already not the way I personally would set up my gun, but that's your style.

Eta what kind of sling do you want? Typical bottom mount, or side mount/cross body? All of the pictures online show that gun coming with a sling. If you bought it used it's just missing the front stud. They cost about $1. Most sporting goods stores should have one, or ebay. I like a M1 garand sling on 1.25" swivels.

You might have a somewhat rough chamber that is causing the hangups. My Mossberg 500 did. If I shot high brass loads I needed to mortar the stock on the ground to get the slide to move rearward and eject the shell.
Bronze brush with steel wool wrapped around it, coated with oil and chucked in my battery drill. Took about 10 min of polishing and now shells eject with no force other than what is required to cycle the action.

I would advocate for replacing the barrel nut with one that already has a sling stud in it. The part is fairly inexpensive and the procedure takes all of about 5 minutes to complete.
Another very good upgrade is to change out the plastic safety with a metal one that gives you a bit more purchase. The ball detent in the safety is fairly stiff as it is and the stock tang safety doesn't really give you enough grip to ensure you can swipe it off cleanly every time. The metal ones have a raised ridge on them that you can more easily get your thumb on.

On the choke issue, why is it that you think you need a choke on a HD gun with an 18.5" ish' barrel? Buckshot patterns are going to be more dependent on the ammo than the choke. You might get some evening up of a mediocre pattern by using an IC choke but the general pattern size is going to be close to identical. Buy and test some different buckshot and figure out which of them patterns best from your gun. Thats it, no need to add a choke.

98Redline, I've used that method to polish chambers before, but today I'd probably just buy a "grapes" style hone, I think they only cost about $15. The OP needs to try other ammo first though.

Put a Magpul stock on it.

Use this https://www.aridusindustries.com/products/mossberg-trijicon-rmr-crom/

Instead of a choke, just use ammo with a Flite Control wad.  Although at HD distances I doubt it will matter much.  I’ve shot plenty of cheap 00 through IC and Cyl barrels with perfectly useable patterns inside 10 yards.

Stretch it out a little and the difference between cheap buckshot and Federal Flite Control becomes very apparent.

Works great till ya can't get FC buckshot.

Works great till ya can't get FC buckshot.
Chokes add alot of versatility for me.  I use the same gun for HD, hunting, matches.

I agree, everybody doesn't use their shotgun the same.
The limited number of shotguns I know of (3) with chokes designed for buck, shoot tighter with non FCW shells than they do cylinder or improved using FCW. The downside is not being able to use slugs but that's a good tradeoff in some circumstances.
The small number of shooters seeking the tightest buckshot patterns possible at the longest ranges possible are a fringe element but boy do they have fun.

I get what you're saying about the chokes and I wish all shotguns came threaded for chokes, but I'm just trying help the guy save from having his barrel threaded, I don't think he even can get that barrel threaded. So spend $200+ on new barrel, or try flight control? Also he seems new to shotguns so I asked him what he plans on doing? Is he shooting inside his house, or is he shooting deer?

Well if he's happy with the patterns he gets with FCW ammo (and can get his hands on any) it's a done deal, most people are best served going that route.

One thing that gets lost on arfcom hundreds of times per year, people will say "home defense", then others say something like "the longest shot inside my home is XXX yards, what more do ya need"?
For rural folks, HD normally means an outside activity what with the loud dogs, locked gates, gate alarms, long driveways, etc. My HD range extends to the edge of my white light rather than the edge of a hallway. A lot farther during the day. For some people it's the opposite.

But nice buckshot patterns via todays buckshot chokes is a real thing and allows use of ammo on the cheap. More of a "enthusiast" thing for those that enjoy putting in the needed time & testing than a mainstream interest.

GG&G has a front side QD mount. I use one on my M500 along with a rear QD mount of a different type. Easy to remove the sling all together when not wanted.

https://www.gggaz.com/mossberg-500-quick-detach-sling-attachments.html

Rear mount

Okay, so I was planning on replying to this earlier. But the reason I want a choke is because I'm shooting #8 shot.

That's shot, not buckshot. The reason being this is home defense in a highly populated apartment complex. From my bedside down towards the sole hallway for a bad guy to come from (living room). And then beyond that is a wall, then my kitchen, then another wall, then beyond that there is the neighboring apartment. Just drywall between us. Technically, there are TWO walls between us if I hit the living room wall before it gets into the kitchen. But this is a large population apartment building. Liability is an issue in case of misses.

So I wanted to use a lighter load. Atleast for my 1st shot. After that, I'll have buck.

I measured out my likely POI distances in my apartment. The closest a BG might get to me would be 4 meters, the furthest is about 8. The longest distance until I hit the opposing wall is 13 meters. After that is neighbor territory. I patterned out all these distances at the range. I kept my targets for all of them. Once it gets to about 7 meters, the spread is the size of a very large dinner plate (maybe about 21 inches iirc, don't have it right in front of me). I would never want any shot spread to be that large.

I might include 00 buck as my 2nd shot, after the 1st. Paul Harrel's videos seem to suggest that #8 shot can do the trick. In my living situation, I REALLY don't want to risk errant projectiles going through drywall, as much as feasible.

What brands do you guys recommend, whether birdshot or buckshot?

I know some people will flame you for using birdshot, but I completely understand in your scenario. There is federal flight control turkey loads (good luck finding any ammo right now), I think the shot size is a little bigger than 8. Beyond that, then yeah you need to spend money on barrel work or a new barrel.
You should take some sheet rock to the range and test how much penetration you get with whatever birdshot load you choose.
ETA: just my opinion, the best/cheapest/easiest option if you require a choke would be to buy a mossberg turkey model with the 20" barrel. Put a light on it and call it good.

This is a technical forum. Birdshot is a poor manstopper and shouldn't be recommended for self/home defense usage. Anything that has the penetration potential to put an attacker down will have the potential to penetrate several walls. Old_Painless already took the time to test birdshot against interior wall construction on his Box O' Truth site, it is conveniently linked in the stickies above this thread. Birdshot will penetrate 1 interior wall (2 spaced sheets of drywall) and get stuck in the paper of the next.  The advice to use birdshot with the first shot and buckshot for the next if the first doesn't work makes the assumption that he'll have the time or ability to take a second shot after the birdshot failed.  

OP, use the birdshot to practice and become proficient with your weapon under stress. Don't use birdshot for self defense.

This might be useful as well, lots of data where other people have already done the research is available OP:

https://brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/12%20Gauge%20Shotgun/12%20Gauge%20Terminal%20Ballistics.html

I agree.  There is no such thing as a magical load that will reliably penetrate the human body to a degree an accurate shot will stop an attacker but also will magically be stopped by Sheetrock.

You either pick a load that will work on people or use something that is handicapping you significantly from the get go.

The best way to both stop an attacker snd insure there is no over penetration is to put all your rounds into your attacker.  Practice, practice, practice.

Also, at the ranges mentioned you will have very limited time to react.  Hit the intruder with a load of birdshot and they keep coming to bury their kitchen knife in your guts.

Before I used a shotgun with birdshot for home defense I’d pick up a pistol.  Better terminal performance and cater follow up shots.

Have you sat down yet to determine if it would be more cost effective to sell the shotty and buy one that is already set up the way you want?
Once you start chopping and customizing a gun it tends to have a negative effect on resale.
That breached barrel is pretty specialized, why did you buy it in the first place?

So are you saying that even if I hit a potential attacker with a chest full of birdshot, even if it doesn't completely shred the insides of their impact area, they are still going to have the motivation to continue to press forward, towards me? I'm clearly racking a second shell to hit them again? Because I would imagine that even if the birdshot doesn't penetrate them much, it would still hit them like the most painful thing in their life. They're going to shrug it off like a man that just got hit by a water balloon? This is not sarcasm, I genuinely want to know if this is what you are trying to communicate. I live in a neighborhood where a break-in is a very real possibility. I am confused. Paul Harrel's videos show #8 birdshot blowing huge holes out of chunks of steak, roasts and rips and even going through several layers of fabric beforehand, all together. That seems like it would drop any human.

This is something I am very much considering right now. I didn't weigh the issue of the muzzle device when I first purchased it. Shotguns are simply not in my realm of experience.

So it is becoming very clear in this thread that the Winchester ammo I was using is a terrible choice. For both practice and actual use, what brands do you guys recommend, irrespective of loading or shot size? I still need to figure all that out.

Just get a different barrel and change it when you feel like it. It's not like it takes, literally, more than about 20 seconds to change it. Most gun shows have extra's for next to nought.

As far as birdshot/buckshot, YOU CAN LOAD BOTH.

I keep bird shot in the first position (last loaded), and bucks under that. I got family in the house and two layers of sheetrock might not stop birdshot but it will make it much safer, and then they're taking cover. If baddie is stilll coming on, well......
Besides, google image birdshot wounds at close range. I'll pass on getting hit with it. Within 3 yards it's effectively a slug.

It's a shotgun, the most versatile, flexible tool in the box. Use that to your advantage. Think outside the box a bit.

The problem is he already had ghost ring sights installed, so just throwing a turkey barrel on it would mean his rear sight is useless. Normally a barrel costs almost as much as a complete gun. The 20" turkey barrel cost about $200 from mossberg. He could have a front sight attached to the new barrel I suppose, they'd have to cut off an area of the vent rib. I think at this point he's really getting in to deep with this gun.

For practice ammo I just buy the Federal bulk pack target loads at Walmart.  I've shot this the most without problem, it's also my go-to for 3-gun.  SD/HD ammo I have a stash of Remington reduced recoil 8 pellet that patterns well.  If I came across Federal 00 buck with the flite control wad I would buy it but it's not an emergency for me right now.  Generally, the higher the brass the better functioning you'll have.  I have some Estate (federal) buckshot that's low brass but works fine, doesn't pattern as well though.  The bad news is that any kind of shotgun ammunition is difficult to find right now, and is expensive when it is available.  

All that said, you don't have a hardware problem, you have a software problem.  Your shotgun, as it sits right now is a functional and fully capable defense weapon.  The birdshot issue you're struggling with is a matter of you not being comfortable shooting it under stress, as your primary concern seems to be what happens if you miss, not of effectiveness.  You already admitted you're really not proficient with it, but that's fixed with practice and trigger time, not changes to the gun or ammo.  I understand that is much easier said than done right now given the ammo situation, but that's how you get to be proficient, not with gear or equipment changes.

Human beings shrug off gory but superficial and painful wounds all the time.  In fact, all animals do.  Sometimes they're high, sometimes they're just pissed and extremely motivated to push through.  The only things that guarantee stopping an attacker is either a hit to the central nervous system or creating enough damage to large blood vessels and blood bearing organs that he goes unconscious due to blood loss.  There is no physiological reason for someone to stopping what they're doing due to a gory or painful but superficial wound.  They might decide to stop, but if you run into one of those that decides not to, you're in for some trouble and a man like that's not likely to give you an opportunity for a second shot.  Even worse if he's got one or more partners, which is generally how home invasions go down. It's not impossible for birdshot to cause this, but it's much more likely with an effective and proven loading like #1 or 00 buck.  There is plenty of information on this site to make an informed decision.  Beyond that, load what you think is best in your shotgun.

Precisely this. The front sight post is silver soldiered onto the barrel, just rear of where it "turns into" the muzzle device. It is calibrated with the rear sight, currently. I am willing to consider all options right now. So here are the options I am looking at, given that I am not a gunsmith, metal worker or anything, so don't yet know what is possible.

But my initial idea was to simply have a gunsmith cut off the muzzle device, and cut choke threads into the barrel. That way I can do whatever I need with the barrel. Might have him polish the chamber too just for additional good measure. Here the risk is that I can't do this due to legal length reasons. I still need to get a wooden dowel or something to measure. Another potential issue is that by cutting it off, he will damage the front sight. I don't think that is likely because the front sight is long, horizontally. So it comes back quite a bit. And even the front end of the sight ends prior to the actual end of the barrel.

Next idea is getting a new barrel all together. This presents issues with my sighting, which I would imagine can be remedied in the following ways. So I don't know what a gunsmith or metal worker is capable of. But a suggestion would be for him to soldier a new front sight onto the new barrel that has the same height dimensions as the previous sight, so that the relationship between the two sights are the same. Not sure how possible this is.

The next is mounting a picatinny rail on the top of the receiver and just moving over to a RDS instead of ghost rings. Which I wouldn't mind doing, but is significantly more expense. The way I see it is my shotgun is my primary line of defense if I have to defend myself, so I wouldn't mind spending it if it meant it becomes a capable defensive tool.

Last option is to sell my current shotgun and get a new one. I am 100% considering this. It might be the most cost efficient, especially with every penny being tight right now.

Another point I want to make. A previous poster mentioned the software issue. Lack of familiarity with shotguns. And that comes down to practice and training. Lots of practicing and training is the plan. I just need to make sure the hardware is functional before I invest lots of ammo in training. I am also currently looking at defensive shotgun classes in the Richmond area, but I'm willing to travel up to about 2 hours to obtain it. If any of you guys know of any good classes between Richmond and Northern Virginia, please mention them here.

You own a 590 Thunder Ranch? As far as I know that would be an 18.5" barrel including the 'muzzle device' which is apart of the barrel.
Honestly I think as it is this is a damn fine shotgun, especially for home-defense. You already have a light mounted, maybe add a side-shell carrier (even a cheap velcro option could work).

I don't know why you would want to chop anything on this shotgun, it is designed to be as short as legally possible. For the distances your anticipating to use your shotgun, it doesn't make any sense to want to add chokes/etc.

---

But all that said, if for some reason you don't like this setup and want to add a choke... Then I would probably sell this and buy a different model. Assuming you haven't already ruined the value, I would bet you can get close to $600 (or better) for this thing. Especially since certain models are pretty hard to find right now.

I’ve had good luck with Federal Game Loads.  But similar loads from any manufacturer should work okay.  I’m assuming the stuff you are using is the cheapest bulk 12 gauge on the market?  Sometimes the cheapest stuff just isn’t that good.

I don't think it's a 590 model. I think it's just 500, iirc. Here is the link to the shotgun. https://www.keepshooting.com/mossberg-500-thunder-ranch.html

I find the muzzle device not at all what I need. The ability to use frangible slugs to blow off door locks is more useful to a SWAT team. It's just extra length that I don't use. I would rather just have an additional inch or two, and the ability to accept chokes is far more useful to me.

My shotgun is mostly stock. The only part that I altered is having a gunsmith drill and tap the rear ghost ring base, and silver soldering the front sight post. Maybe accepting a new barrel would be the easiest option. But then I would have to mount a picatinny top on the receiver.

I'm going to start shopping for barrels maybe.

Scratch that. I'm gonna just experiment with new ammo, as suggested, before I do any sort of serious shopping. As recommended in this thread. Maybe find some Federal Game loads when I go down to Green Top tomorrow.

That breacher device is included in the barrel length and needed for the barrel to be minimum legal length (18.5”) on that gun. If you had it cut off, it would be a short barrel shotgun.

Given what you've said - I would recommend in a "normal" environment just getting a "Tactical Turkey" or "Turkey" edition shotgun and selling/trading in the Thunder Ranch.  

It's basically set up how you want other then the barrel will be 20 inches instead of 18.5.  (Which very honestly is not really notable in a full stocked shotgun).  

Agree and agree.  IMHO, for almost every regular Joe, a breacher barreled shotgun is basically a novelty for taking IG pics.  Just my opinion.  

OP, if you find a barrel that works for you better, then you can sell the breacher barrel.  You won't recover all the money you put into the sights, but it will be something.

Your post is outright ignorant for a technical forum.

Birdshot does NOT act like a slug, and anything that meets penetration requirements is going through dry-wall period. There is a wealth of terminal ballistics information pinned at the very top of this forum you should read.

At the gun shop. Only 12 GA ammo they have that is 2 3/4” is Rio Game Load Blue Steel. Is this stuff worth buying? I don’t want to end up in the same situation.

And Winchester Super X

The choice of "what a local shop has on hand" for 12 gauge, is not a way to go thru life. Or preserve your life on a bad day.
Do yourself a favor, spend an hour or three and get educated on what different shotgun shells will do and NOT DO.
Then search for proper ammo on the web.
If you're using this for "in the apartment", then choke selection is lower on your list of concerns.
Ammo choice is higher, like at the top of the list high. You've got a usable gun already.

I think deep into the night about chokes and patterns, but my shots are outside and longish.

Don't overthink it, get educated, buy high quality large shot, or slug ammo and then gain the confidence to know where you can place the payload. Done deal, many dollars saved. Practice with cheap bulk pack Federal.

People who don't pattern their shotgun/load at different ranges are just hoping and wishing, don't hope and wish.

Yeah, I emailed several shooting Academys near me today, but I’m not optimistic on the availability of their shotgun classes. Online on their calendars it doesn’t show any available for a good while, and the few that are shown are all fully booked up. There is one class that I am hopeful will be available, but it’s only a three hour class were you need 50 shells. Probably not super in depth, but better than nothing. If all else fails, I might have to self educate through YouTube, and spend time at the range.

It seems hard as heck to find ammo in stores though. I went to two major retailers, and they both only had like two boxes each of the ammo that would be compatible with my shotgun. Everything else was 3 inch shells, and I don’t want 3 inch shells. I want to stuff the mag with maximum capacity.

I guess I will have to stick to online for my searches, as you said. I can’t believe shotgun ammo is nearly all sold out, everywhere.

I'm in the process of trying to find a good instructor to hire.

But in the meantime, I am interested in consuming reliable and vetted online materials on proper technique and training. Are there any here that you guys endorse? Youtube videos, other instructionals? Any that are bad info/steer clea/avoid? (Ideally videos teaching proper technique; loading, reloading, stance, general shooting, malfunctions, and handling, etc.).

Shotguns are completely new territory for me. My brain wants more information.

I'm gonna go ahead and order that book.

Thus far, I found these videos on stance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxVp4BeYZos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO7Ogc7R4UI

Technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSdJM5T165Y

Stance + Recoil Management:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS1_nmSMGy0

and for reloading:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imY0FT4ZtBc

And for one that doesn't seem quite right to me... Is this crazy here? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xQWIM-bW3c

Since I'm deferring to you guys, I don't know if these videos are legit or trash. I do suspect the bottom one is suspect. But these videos are what I'm currently using as a guide, until I can obtain more credentialed instruction.

I also want to mention that I will be making use of Esstac saddle cards. I just received the Esstac velcro loops today. I'm going to adhere that to the receiver tomorrow morning. So that's why the third from the top, Lucky Gunner link seems to make sense to me.

Select a slug is a thing but for home defense not something I'd concern myself with. Police or outside where a slug may be needed, sure. My house of yard Flite Control will handle it just fine.