Question on pictures and figerprints

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Posted: 11/2/2018 2:28:58 PM EDT

What are you guys doing for fingerprints? Does one have to go and have them done professionally done or can you do them yourself? My dealer is saying that they have to be done by a LE department. Thought I had read that some were doing them themselves.

What about pics?

Thanks and sorry if it has been asked a million times before.

Posted: 11/2/2018 2:37:35 PM EDT

[#1]

Been lurking and researching this myself. I don't have a lot of NFA experience (2 form 1's in an NFA trust and that was pre rule change), but from what I can gather, prints can be done yourself. Just get good ink and order a bunch of free finger print cards from the ATF and practice till they look good. Some guys are getting approved with selfies taken with cell phones as long as the picture meets the criteria of being less than 6 months old and is the proper size.

Someone else will chime in with a better answer, but this what I gather so far.

Posted: 11/2/2018 2:40:42 PM EDT

[#2]

Order the cards for FREE from the ATF, buy a $8 inkless fingerprint pad on amazon, and watch a youtube video on how to do it. Also read B_W's big instructional thread HERE for how to fill out the boxes.

You do NOT have to have them done by LE for NFA forms, your dealer is mistaken. The ATF requires it be done my LE for explosives licenses, and many people mistakenly think that carries over to NFA as well.

Posted: 11/2/2018 2:49:37 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Been lurking and researching this myself. I don't have a lot of NFA experience (2 form 1's in an NFA trust and that was pre rule change), but from what I can gather, prints can be done yourself. Just get good ink and order a bunch of free finger print cards from the ATF and practice till they look good. Some guys are getting approved with selfies taken with cell phones as long as the picture meets the criteria of being less than 6 months old and is the proper size.

Someone else will chime in with a better answer, but this what I gather so far.

View Quote

Thanks, my wife and I both are needing to get them done (Trust).

Posted: 11/2/2018 4:07:20 PM EDT

[#4]

I've done 6 of them so far.

For pics, I go to Walgreens and get their passport Photos.
For Prints, I go to the local sheriffs office. They are real nice (Pro 2 A) and give me zero hassles.

I've known a few folks that ordered an inkpad off Amazon or picked up local, ordered the cards off the ATF's site and did them themselves.
I figured as close is the Sheriff's office is (can see and walk to it from work) I'll have them do it and its one less thing the examiners have to nit pic about.

Posted: 11/2/2018 4:25:58 PM EDT

[#5]

I did my last passport photo and my last concealed firearms license photo with my cell phone.

The Department of State has a photo editor on their website that will make it the perfect size.

Posted: 11/2/2018 4:35:41 PM EDT

[#6]

Fingerprints: If you don't feel like rolling them yourself, go to a place that does fingerprint cards for businesses (trucking, medical, some manufacturing, etc. require applicants to submit fingerprint cards) and bring the correct BATFE cards with you for them to use. Just google search "fingerprint service near me" and make a couple calls.

Go here: https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form and order 10 (or whatever you feel is appropriate) of the "FBI-FD-258LE - NFA, Imports ORI WVATF0800" cards. They will arrive in 5-7 business days.

Take the cards with you and have them done by a pro. I have really low ridges so I am really hard to print and have always gone this route.

Pictures: Take a pic of yourself with your phone. Email it to yourself. Edit it and crop it to 2"x2". Print it with a color printer with photo paper, or put it on a USB "thumb drive" and take it to Costco, Walgreens, CVS, or any place that does photos and have them print you a few on photo paper. Ask if they can take the file and put 10 on a page.

I don't care how "pro 2a" or "2a friendly" the local yokel PD is. They don't need to know that I want x amount of fingerprint cards done for NFA items. That information is between me and the county CLEO that I send the CLEO Copy to when approved.

Posted: 11/2/2018 4:53:40 PM EDT

[#7]

I want to mention again that you MUST use the proper fingerprint cards. Most fingerprint places and may PDs do not have the NFA cards which have the ORI pre-printed on the card. Make sure the card is white with blue printing and says FD-258 and most importantly has "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV" pre-printed on it, or you'll get your submittals kicked back and have to do it all over again.

Below is a picture of the correct fingerprint card.

Attached File

Posted: 11/2/2018 4:56:00 PM EDT

[#8]

Just efiled the other day. Uploaded a selfie i took against my white bedroom wall, and rolled my own prints with one of the cheap inkless pads.

Only took a few tries to get decent looking prints. I was suprised how good they looked.

Posted: 11/2/2018 5:19:26 PM EDT

[#9]

I got a bunch of fingerprint cards from the ATF and took them to my local sherriffs office. I used my phone and printed the pictures. They haven't been kicked back yet...

Posted: 11/2/2018 5:26:04 PM EDT

[#10]

Thanks fellows

Posted: 11/3/2018 10:26:59 AM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
Pictures: Take a pic of yourself with your phone. Email it to yourself. Edit it and crop it to 2"x2". Print it with a color printer with photo paper, or put it on a USB "thumb drive" and take it to Costco, Walgreens, CVS, or any place that does photos and have them print you a few on photo paper. Ask if they can take the file and put 10 on a page.

View Quote

I put six of mine into a 4x6 image and took it to Walmart. Less than a buck, and took about 15 minutes.

Posted: 11/3/2018 3:06:35 PM EDT

[#12]

FWIW...they don't need to be on photo paper. Lots of people print them directly onto the forms. I printed mine on plain paper and taped them to the forms with clear packaging tape.

They don't even require a white background. The pics my dealer submitted for my last ones has a bookcase in the back with a MAGA hat on one shelf.

Posted: 11/3/2018 3:10:14 PM EDT

[#13]

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FWIW...they don't need to be on photo paper. Lots of people print them directly onto the forms. I printed mine on plain paper and taped them to the forms with clear packaging tape.

They don't even require a white background. The pics my dealer submitted for my last ones has a bookcase in the back with a MAGA hat on one shelf.

View Quote

But they have to be color, correct?

Posted: 11/3/2018 3:10:40 PM EDT

[#14]

Thanks for all the info!

Posted: 11/3/2018 4:31:53 PM EDT

[#15]

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But they have to be color, correct?

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Nope. Nothing in the statutes says anything about color. Now, depending on your examiner, it might get questioned. @bigbore or somebody else at ADCO fought that battle not too long ago. Let me see if I can find the thread.

Posted: 11/3/2018 4:41:46 PM EDT

[#16]

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Nope. Nothing in the statutes says anything about color. Now, depending on your examiner, it might get questioned. @bigbore or somebody else at ADCO fought that battle not too long ago. Let me see if I can find the thread.

View Quote

Here you go: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/-/17-485052/?page=1

Posted: 11/16/2018 1:07:41 PM EDT

[#17]

When a person gets old his finger prints can become slick, like they have been sanded with fine sandpaper.

It is very common and I am old.

So the last 2 times I went to the state issuing office to renew my CCW permit, they were unable to get good prints. They were uniformed law enforcement guys who do it all day every day. Both times, they gave up after about 5 tries and just sent in the bad prints.

My question is: If an applicant for a suppressor cannot get good prints, what is the effect?

I see the instructions on page 2 here, but they don't address the issue:

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/standard-fingerprint-form-fd-258-1.pdf

Posted: 11/16/2018 1:44:58 PM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:

My question is: If an applicant for a suppressor cannot get good prints, what is the effect?

I see the instructions on page 2 here, but they don't address the issue:

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/standard-fingerprint-form-fd-258-1.pdf

View Quote

Just send them in. Shouldn't matter, since they don't actually run your prints.

Posted: 11/16/2018 6:11:35 PM EDT

[#19]

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Just send them in. Shouldn't matter, since they don't actually run your prints.

View Quote

Great! Thanks.

Posted: 11/16/2018 6:38:24 PM EDT

[#20]

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Quoted:
When a person gets old his finger prints can become slick, like they have been sanded with fine sandpaper.

It is very common and I am old.

So the last 2 times I went to the state issuing office to renew my CCW permit, they were unable to get good prints. They were uniformed law enforcement guys who do it all day every day. Both times, they gave up after about 5 tries and just sent in the bad prints.

My question is: If an applicant for a suppressor cannot get good prints, what is the effect?

I see the instructions on page 2 here, but they don't address the issue:

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/standard-fingerprint-form-fd-258-1.pdf

View Quote

I'm old, too. Thin prints, callouses, all like that. The guy running the Live Scan machine at the PD gave me some hand lotion to rub into my fingertips. It didn't produce perfect prints, but it did make a world of difference.

Posted: 11/17/2018 4:32:34 PM EDT

[#21]

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I want to mention again that you MUST use the proper fingerprint cards. Most fingerprint places and may PDs do not have the NFA cards which have the ORI pre-printed on the card. Make sure the card is white with blue printing and says FD-258 and most importantly has "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV" pre-printed on it, or you'll get your submittals kicked back and have to do it all over again.

Below is a picture of the correct fingerprint card.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/248738/FD-258-fingerprint-card-completed-example_jpg-725555.JPG

View Quote

What's ATF's hangup with FD-258 cards with another agency's ORI? I was going to send a set from my local PD, and the FD-258 I have is identical to the one the ATF wants (of course) except my PD's info is the ORI. I just received FD-258 cards fresh from the ATF and the only difference is the pre-printed "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV". Why is this an issue?

Is there any problem with me putting a sticker over the PD ORI?

Posted: 11/17/2018 4:58:26 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:

What's ATF's hangup with FD-258 cards with another agency's ORI? I was going to send a set from my local PD, and the FD-258 I have is identical to the one the ATF wants (of course) except my PD's info is the ORI. I just received FD-258 cards fresh from the ATF and the only difference is the pre-printed "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV". Why is this an issue?

Is there any problem with me putting a sticker over the PD ORI?

View Quote

I hand wrote the information on some blank cards. No rejection notification so far.

Posted: 11/17/2018 5:43:48 PM EDT

[#23]

What's the technicality that makes "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV" correct, and makes "VA1090000", "PD", "FREDERICKSBURG, VA" potentially unacceptable?

Posted: 11/17/2018 6:02:58 PM EDT

[#24]

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Quoted:
What's the technicality that makes "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV" correct, and makes "VA1090000", "PD", "FREDERICKSBURG, VA" potentially unacceptable?

View Quote

The way its supposed to go, ATF sends the cards to the FBI to do the examination. When the FBI is done, they submit the results of the BG check to the organization named in that ORI box. So if it's not the NFA info there, the info could get sent to the wrong place.

Posted: 11/17/2018 6:15:01 PM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:
The way its supposed to go, ATF sends the cards to the FBI to do the examination. When the FBI is done, they submit the results of the BG check to the organization named in that ORI box. So if it's not the NFA info there, the info could get sent to the wrong place.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
What's the technicality that makes "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV" correct, and makes "VA1090000", "PD", "FREDERICKSBURG, VA" potentially unacceptable?

The way its supposed to go, ATF sends the cards to the FBI to do the examination. When the FBI is done, they submit the results of the BG check to the organization named in that ORI box. So if it's not the NFA info there, the info could get sent to the wrong place.

Excellent. Now I understand. Thank you.

Posted: 11/17/2018 6:27:26 PM EDT

[#26]

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Excellent. Now I understand. Thank you.

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I've never used anything but the cards with the correct ORI...but there have been multiple reports of people submitting "incorrect" ORIs and the ATF putting a sticker over them with the correct info.

Since we don't get the FP cards back, I'm not sure anybody can prove it one way or the other.

Posted: 11/17/2018 6:27:49 PM EDT

[#27]

I wall down the hall to the Records Office and have the ladies do it there. (inkless)

I go to Kinkos and get the passport photos.

My dealer will do both, but charges for it.

I believe the cards I submit have my agency's info on them.

I have submitted and been granted 7 stamps so far with no problem whatsoever.

Posted: 11/17/2018 6:30:53 PM EDT

[#28]

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I've never used anything but the cards with the correct ORI...but there have been multiple reports of people submitting "incorrect" ORIs and the ATF putting a sticker over them with the correct info.

Since we don't get the FP cards back, I'm not sure anybody can prove it one way or the other.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Excellent. Now I understand. Thank you.

I've never used anything but the cards with the correct ORI...but there have been multiple reports of people submitting "incorrect" ORIs and the ATF putting a sticker over them with the correct info.

Since we don't get the FP cards back, I'm not sure anybody can prove it one way or the other.

OK, but now I am convinced it's not a hyper-technicality for me to apply a sticker over my PD's ORI, because the purpose has been explained. I don't have to get new prints taken on a different card.

Posted: 11/20/2018 10:58:24 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
I want to mention again that you MUST use the proper fingerprint cards. Most fingerprint places and may PDs do not have the NFA cards which have the ORI pre-printed on the card. Make sure the card is white with blue printing and says FD-258 and most importantly has "WVATF0800", "ATF-NATL TRA CTR", "MARTINSBURG, WV" pre-printed on it, or you'll get your submittals kicked back and have to do it all over again.

Below is a picture of the correct fingerprint card.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/248738/FD-258-fingerprint-card-completed-example_jpg-725555.JPG

View Quote

I just requested a bunch of these cards from the ATF, we'll see how long it takes.
I've got at least two F1s I want to get sent off before year end.

Posted: 11/20/2018 2:06:56 PM EDT

[#30]

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I just requested a bunch of these cards from the ATF, we'll see how long it takes.
I've got at least two F1s I want to get sent off before year end.

View Quote

Last batch I got, took about 5 days to get to me.

Posted: 11/20/2018 2:23:02 PM EDT

[#31]

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Last batch I got, took about 5 days to get to me.

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Same here.

Posted: 11/20/2018 8:47:21 PM EDT

[#32]

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I just requested a bunch of these cards from the ATF, we'll see how long it takes.

View Quote

8 days over a holiday weekend.

Posted: 11/21/2018 9:33:32 AM EDT

[#33]

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Quoted:

I just requested a bunch of these cards from the ATF, we'll see how long it takes.
I've got at least two F1s I want to get sent off before year end.

View Quote

Ordered mine this past Thursday night at like 11pm and I received them yesterday. My F1 was submitted yesterday so I'll be sending out my prints today.

Posted: 11/21/2018 11:50:44 AM EDT

[#34]

Here's some info on the "employer and address" section of the 258 for anyone wondering. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Posted: 11/21/2018 12:10:13 PM EDT

[#35]

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Here's some info on the "employer and address" section of the 258 for anyone wondering. Straight from the horse's mouth.

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Glad to hear it...but just because it's from the horse's mouth doesn't make it right. Which is really sad. I had them answer a question a couple months ago that I already knew the answer to, and they answered incorrectly.

I'd still be hesitant to send one in with blank spaces...so I'll stick with Self and my address. But glad they gave an answer that seems semi-logical.

Posted: 11/21/2018 3:15:51 PM EDT

[#36]

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Glad to hear it...but just because it's from the horse's mouth doesn't make it right. Which is really sad. I had them answer a question a couple months ago that I already knew the answer to, and they answered incorrectly.

I'd still be hesitant to send one in with blank spaces...so I'll stick with Self and my address. But glad they gave an answer that seems semi-logical.

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One hand does not seem to know what the other hand is doing with those folks, I have asked the same questions from 4 different people before and got 4 different answers!.

Posted: 11/21/2018 3:18:45 PM EDT

[#37]

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One hand does not seem to know what the other hand is doing with those folks, I have asked the same questions from 4 different people before and got 4 different answers!.

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I ended up putting self and my address again just to have a completely filled out form.

Posted: 11/21/2018 3:53:32 PM EDT

[#38]

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I ended up putting self and my address again just to have a completely filled out form.

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I spent a long time in the military and figured it out pretty quick to never leave a blank line on a government form, it messes with their head!

Posted: 11/22/2018 3:21:49 AM EDT

[#39]

I submitted my first ever efile form 1 back on the 7th.

For the picture I switched my iPhone camera to square mode and took a selfie against my white bathroom wall.

For prints I went the next morning to a local “fingerprints express” business and paid $20 for two fingerprint cards. They printed all my personal info on them from the computer, but left blank the ORI section. I simply hand wrote in the ATF info and mailed them off.

I got my approval yesterday. So if they took Veterans Day off, I got approved in 9 business days.

Posted: 11/22/2018 12:02:35 PM EDT

[#40]

I ordered fingerprint cards on the 2nd and am still waiting. Think I will order them again.

Posted: 11/22/2018 2:49:30 PM EDT

[#41]

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Glad to hear it...but just because it's from the horse's mouth doesn't make it right.

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She's correct.
(You're also correct that ATF employees get things wrong sometimes.)

The employer field is for your "potential" employer (if the background check is pursuant to seeking employment there).

The FD-258 is a general purpose civil print form, so not every field will be relevant to the task at hand.

Posted: 1/20/2019 3:29:06 AM EDT

[#42]

Anyone have a problem not getting the fingerprint cards that thy have ordered from the ATF?

I have ordered them twice and never received them.

Posted: 1/20/2019 9:34:43 AM EDT

[#43]

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Anyone have a problem not getting the fingerprint cards that thy have ordered from the ATF?

I have ordered them twice and never received them.

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No issues here. I've ordered them a couple of times. Usually takes 7-10 days for them to show up.

I've got some extras I can send you. IM if you need them.

Posted: 1/21/2019 2:18:01 AM EDT

[#44]

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Anyone have a problem not getting the fingerprint cards that thy have ordered from the ATF?

I have ordered them twice and never received them.

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Did you order the print cards within the last 31 days... if so, no further explanation should be required.

Posted: 1/21/2019 10:25:58 PM EDT

[#45]

Can you only use the Silencer Shop kiosks for suppressors?

Posted: 2/15/2019 10:25:59 PM EDT

[#46]

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Did you order the print cards within the last 31 days... if so, no further explanation should be required.

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Finally got them. They sent them to the wrong address.

Posted: 2/18/2019 8:25:37 PM EDT

[#47]

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I did my last passport photo and my last concealed firearms license photo with my cell phone.

The Department of State has a photo editor on their website that will make it the perfect size.

View Quote

Cool, thanks!

Posted: 2/19/2019 3:06:59 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
Did you order the print cards within the last 31 days... if so, no further explanation should be required.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Anyone have a problem not getting the fingerprint cards that thy have ordered from the ATF?

I have ordered them twice and never received them.

Did you order the print cards within the last 31 days... if so, no further explanation should be required.

I ordered 10 mid-shutdown and was surprised to see them show up, took about 10 -14 days, not sure of the exact time but I believe less than two weeks.