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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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Posted: 12/26/2021 10:40:06 PM EDT
I know they're NFA, I know they have to be made prior to 1986 and all that, but something I'm wondering about:

Assume I were to get my hands on on say, an M-16.  What are my options if some part of the rifle needs replaced, like the barrel?  Is the entire firearm considered NFA and you can't replace parts without more costs or permissions, or is it just the receiver/BCG/fire group parts that are the NFA part?
Link Posted: 12/26/2021 10:53:28 PM EDT
[#1]
In the case of a M16 you can replace any part except the lower

It gets a little more complicated when you get into machine guns with "married bolts" or "married sears" but generally speaking it's the receiver that's legally the "machine gun".
Link Posted: 12/26/2021 11:19:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lightguy] [#2]
With a real "M16" the registered part that everything revolves around is the serialized lower receiver.

As such they are  actual M16(etc) labeled receivers. Anything else can be repaired or replaced.
Some "M16s" are legally modified AR15 receivers.
Some are drop in autosears.
Some are lightning links.
All pre 86.

One of the nice things about a M16 platform is the variety of components and calibers that it will accept.
When it comes down to brass tacks its my fave full auto of the bunch.
Link Posted: 12/26/2021 11:28:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Cool, thanks for the info.  I suppose an actual M-16 lower receiver, or any of the full auto parts are stupidly expensive, if you can even find them for sale.
Link Posted: 12/26/2021 11:30:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EDL:
Cool, thanks for the info.  I suppose an actual M-16 lower receiver, or any of the full auto parts are stupidly expensive, if you can even find them for sale.
View Quote


The registered lower, yes absolutely, but a M16 FCG is actually fairly inexpensive and easy to find if you need one.
Link Posted: 12/26/2021 11:33:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EDL:
Cool, thanks for the info.  I suppose an actual M-16 lower receiver, or any of the full auto parts are stupidly expensive, if you can even find them for sale.
View Quote
They're spendy. I bought mine about a year ago for $17,500. It's a SAW conversion.  Colt would have cost about $7k more for a proper push pin lower.

As received.
Attachment Attached File


In a more modern configuration.
Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 12/26/2021 11:35:15 PM EDT
[#6]
If you want to simulate full auto on the cheap, pick up a rare breed trigger.


In this video I shoot a rare breed forced reset trigger and then shoot my M16 lower.
Link Posted: 12/26/2021 11:43:19 PM EDT
[#7]
$17,500.  Ouch, that's not gonna happen my life time unless I win the lottery.

Anyway, I know about the Rare Breed, but I also know they were served a cease and desist by the ATF back in July.  Last I heard they were heading to court.  I considered building a 9mm AR with one of those triggers, or dropping one into a CMMG Banshee (I'm leery of out of battery kabooms with blow back designs).

For now, I guess I'll just live my 7.5" 300 Blackout pistol with a Franklin Armory binary trigger in it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2021 12:36:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
If you want to simulate full auto on the cheap, pick up a rare breed trigger.


In this video I shoot a rare breed forced reset trigger and then shoot my M16 lower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut-WKgVd_ow
View Quote


For sure the full auto simulators over the ages offer a much bigger bang for the buck.
My question is when TSHTF are you able to concentrate on range type trigger control ?
Link Posted: 12/27/2021 7:39:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lightguy:


For sure the full auto simulators over the ages offer a much bigger bang for the buck.
My question is when TSHTF are you able to concentrate on range type trigger control ?
View Quote
With the FRT you just pull. Your finger moves back and forth, but you don't have to work to make it happen.

What you lose is a selector, it's hard to shoot singles.
Link Posted: 12/27/2021 12:59:53 PM EDT
[#10]
That is one of the issues I have with the FRT.  Part of the reason I was looking at one for a 9mm.  Not something I'd want on a rifle caliber.  If they manage to win their court case, hopefully they'll add a semi-auto selection somehow.  I put a binary on the 300 BLK pistol more as a way to get very quick double taps than trying to run it at high rates for mag dumps, but it is admittedly fun to run it from time to time.  The "rhythm" to make it mag dump isn't hard.
Link Posted: 12/27/2021 10:20:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EDL:
$17,500.  Ouch, that's not gonna happen my life time unless I win the lottery.

Anyway, I know about the Rare Breed, but I also know they were served a cease and desist by the ATF back in July.  Last I heard they were heading to court.  I considered building a 9mm AR with one of those triggers, or dropping one into a CMMG Banshee (I'm leery of out of battery kabooms with blow back designs).

For now, I guess I'll just live my 7.5" 300 Blackout pistol with a Franklin Armory binary trigger in it.
View Quote



$17,500 would be a buy immediately price today. That was a buy immediately price last year too. A forged non-Colt registered lower would run at least $22k today.
Link Posted: 12/27/2021 10:49:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshNC:



$17,500 would be a buy immediately price today. That was a buy immediately price last year too. A forged non-Colt registered lower would run at least $22k today.
View Quote
Yep.  $17,500 was a good price last year.  It's an impossible to find price this year.
Link Posted: 12/28/2021 12:38:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Sadly, we only have the GCA and NFA to thank for that.  It's doubly bitter when you consider that binary triggers are legal (for now).  Not exactly "full auto" proper, but close enough.

I was on another forum and we were talking about the GCA and NFA, and we actually had a chance in 1939 to toss it out in the Miller vs United States case (307 U.S. 174, 59 S.Ct. 816, 83 L.Ed. 1206 (U.S.Ark. 1939) when two men were charged with transferring a double barrel 12-gauge shotgun in violation of the NFA. A federal district court quashed the indictment, ruling that the NFA did indeed violate the Second Amendment. But the Supreme Court, in a unanimous decision, disagreed. Justice James McReynolds dismissed the case with the statement "the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument." McReynolds added that "certainly it is not within Judicial Notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense." He also noted that many states had adopted gun-control laws over the years.

The funny thing is, that statement and logic, today, actually supports the removal of at least short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, suppressors and machine guns from the NFA list as all are absolutely "a part of the ordinary military equipment."  Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

It's also a bit ironic that in many European countries, where guns are much more restricted, the purchase of suppressors are not.  Heck, they don't even put serial numbers on them.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 8:20:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken] [#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Yep.  $17,500 was a good price last year.  It's an impossible to find price this year.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:



$17,500 would be a buy immediately price today. That was a buy immediately price last year too. A forged non-Colt registered lower would run at least $22k today.
Yep.  $17,500 was a good price last year.  It's an impossible to find price this year.


Don't I know it, I just completed the final phase of my BRD and purchased a Colt m16a1....mid life crisis and all that I guess....always wanted one sick of watching them slip further out of reach, said fuck it.  Selling one of my m11s and some uppers to recoup some of the cost.
Link Posted: 12/29/2021 9:11:57 PM EDT
[#15]
M-16 full auto parts are not particularly expensive as I recall.  The hammer, trigger, disconnect, safety and bolt carrier are interchangeable and finding the right supplier is the hard part.  I have 2 Colt M-16's and a DIAS and have put the lower parts kits in a few standard lowers.  One is a pistol lower with a Ceiner Conversion for .22 with a 4" barrel.  Kinda fun.

Also, some UZI's have registered bolts, and that part is the machine gun.  The rest of the gun is just a host for the bolt.  I have a full size and a Micro NFA bolt in 9mm that are a hoot also.
Link Posted: 1/1/2022 11:51:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EDL:
...It's doubly bitter when you consider that binary triggers are legal (for now).  Not exactly "full auto" proper, but close enough.
View Quote

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that point. A binary trigger is the next incremental step from a standard semi-auto towards a real full auto, but it’s it’s a loooooong way from the real thing.
Link Posted: 1/2/2022 1:44:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stahlgewehr762:

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that point. A binary trigger is the next incremental step from a standard semi-auto towards a real full auto, but it’s it’s a loooooong way from the real thing.
View Quote


Totally agree.
Link Posted: 1/2/2022 2:12:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
They're spendy. I bought mine about a year ago for $17,500. It's a SAW conversion.  Colt would have cost about $7k more for a proper push pin lower.

As received.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/Resized_20210330_185531_jpeg-2218153.JPG

In a more modern configuration.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/Resized_20210405_205000_jpeg-2218154.JPG
View Quote


Damn, in one year they are approaching 30k for non colts
Link Posted: 1/2/2022 2:55:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By colossians323:


Damn, in one year they are approaching 30k for non colts
View Quote
Yep. Ruben is always a little high, but in 15 months he went from asking ~$21k to almost $30k.
Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 3/5/2022 8:53:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
They're spendy. I bought mine about a year ago for $17,500. It's a SAW conversion.  Colt would have cost about $7k more for a proper push pin lower.

As received.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/Resized_20210330_185531_jpeg-2218153.JPG

In a more modern configuration.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/Resized_20210405_205000_jpeg-2218154.JPG
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By EDL:
Cool, thanks for the info.  I suppose an actual M-16 lower receiver, or any of the full auto parts are stupidly expensive, if you can even find them for sale.
They're spendy. I bought mine about a year ago for $17,500. It's a SAW conversion.  Colt would have cost about $7k more for a proper push pin lower.

As received.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/Resized_20210330_185531_jpeg-2218153.JPG

In a more modern configuration.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/57761/Resized_20210405_205000_jpeg-2218154.JPG

Why did you do that to that weapon?Old school Colt MK18 owner here.Not meaning to be disrespectful to you just wondering why?
Link Posted: 3/5/2022 10:51:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VK2XXM:

Why did you do that to that weapon?Old school Colt MK18 owner here.Not meaning to be disrespectful to you just wondering why?
View Quote
Because I like to shoot it. I have all the original parts stashed so it can be put back any time. I've got a bunch of uppers to swap between. I've got a SSF in the lower and a grip and stock I like shooting with.
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