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Posted: 1/20/2021 7:12:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Cool. Details please
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Posted: 1/20/2021 7:58:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Very cool! Details would be cooler...
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Posted: 1/20/2021 10:23:43 PM EDT
[#3]
  We need details man |
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Posted: 1/20/2021 11:14:47 PM EDT
[#4]
The basics details are that this is an aluminum pusher, that has a sleeve to glue in a 14.5mm artillery simulator projectile.
I did not make the pusher, but I am working on re-inventing it with 3d printing so that it is much more reliable and cheaper and easier for everyone to get. The aluminum ones are barely light enough to get enough velocity out-of them to arm the setback fuze. I had quite a few duds, and only used my break action because the extra 2" of barrel gave me more velocity. I did send one of the projos to Scot pace to see if he would offer them, except with a plastic driving band to limit barrel wear. But he has been very busy with 37mm projects and I havent heard anything. The 3d printed version should be able to be lighter and get a much better reliability. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:48:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Nice.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 2:39:32 AM EDT
[#6]
What type of charge do the arty simulators have?
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:29:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Who's got the 14.5 projos?
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:59:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Cdvs still has some. And gunbroker every once in a while. After this test I went ahead and ordered a hundred more projos to save for later.
Surprisingly, even the projos loaded in 20ga didn't work with an adapter. Im guessing they weren't stable in flight or something. So that's why I'm pursuing a 40mm projo. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:01:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What type of charge do the arty simulators have? It is some type of military grade flash powder. It explodes out the back of the projectile without any shrapnel. The though the timed air burst projos seem to break apart into chunks of lead. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:49:57 AM EDT
[#10]
If I could get my hands on these kind of rounds I’d commit to buying a 40mm. I can’t do it just to shoot chalk...
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:17:56 PM EDT
[#11]
I'll put it this way. I bought a lot of my ammo, components, QD barrel mount, and barrel before I bought my first 40mm. Same reason I have a handful of 60mm mortar practice rounds in my shop. Buy when you can.
There is a lot more than chalk out there. What one of my recent videos to see what is out there just on the surplus side of the house. https://youtu.be/LW5SvzkedOA Owning a 3d printer and access to a lathe has opened up a whole realm of opportunities. And this ammo is just one of the "projectiles that go bang" that im working on. But I get it, especially with the current price of launchers. It wasn't worth it to me to buy an LMT for 1500 bucks or whatever they were. But after already having a barrel I got on sale, a barrel mount for 70 bucks, and some ammo, it was easy to buy a receiver. (Though I missed out on DSA). Especially after I sold some smoke grenades on gunbroker for a ridiculous amount of money that more than paid for it. And I wouldn't have a second launcher if an awesome member of this website didn't sell me it at a great price. I missed out on too many 2500 dollar machine guns when I was young and had the money cuz I would "just wait" I regret that greatly now... I don't regret my current purchases |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 6:22:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cdvs still has some. And gunbroker every once in a while. After this test I went ahead and ordered a hundred more projos to save for later. Surprisingly, even the projos loaded in 20ga didn't work with an adapter. Im guessing they weren't stable in flight or something. So that's why I'm pursuing a 40mm projo. I have one of those adapters which is a cut down Russian KPV 14.5mm MG barrel that is sleeved in a 40mm barrel and uses the projos loaded into 20ga shotgun hulls and I have a 80% dud rate. I suspect that the bore is too large and the rifling is not being engaged, leading to the projos not being spin stabilized and tumbling in flight. I am very curious to see how you adapted these to 40mm pushers. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 6:27:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have one of those adapters which is a cut down Russian KPV 14.5mm MG barrel that is sleeved in a 40mm barrel and uses the projos loaded into 20ga shotgun hulls and I have a 80% dud rate. I suspect that the bore is too large and the rifling is not being engaged, leading to the projos not being spin stabilized and tumbling in flight. I am very curious to see how you adapted these to 40mm pushers. Wow that is disappointing. I have good luck with a smooth bore 20ga shotgun. I'm hoping to make it as simple as possible so that anyone can make the pusher/adapters. Either a 3d printed mold to cast the pusher in with the arty sim in the middle, or a totally 3d printed pusher that you insert the arty sim into. It just has to be light enough and strong enough to be launched to the proper velocity/acceleration with a standard m781 blank. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:40:16 PM EDT
[#14]
This has my interest. I’m only 4 weeks into the Form 1 wait on my DSA 203, but I bought a printer specifically to do 40mm stuff... Once I get it up and running, I’ll hit you up for your files if you don’t mind.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:59:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow that is disappointing. I have good luck with a smooth bore 20ga shotgun. I'm hoping to make it as simple as possible so that anyone can make the pusher/adapters. Either a 3d printed mold to cast the pusher in with the arty sim in the middle, or a totally 3d printed pusher that you insert the arty sim into. It just has to be light enough and strong enough to be launched to the proper velocity/acceleration with a standard m781 blank. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have one of those adapters which is a cut down Russian KPV 14.5mm MG barrel that is sleeved in a 40mm barrel and uses the projos loaded into 20ga shotgun hulls and I have a 80% dud rate. I suspect that the bore is too large and the rifling is not being engaged, leading to the projos not being spin stabilized and tumbling in flight. I am very curious to see how you adapted these to 40mm pushers. Wow that is disappointing. I have good luck with a smooth bore 20ga shotgun. I'm hoping to make it as simple as possible so that anyone can make the pusher/adapters. Either a 3d printed mold to cast the pusher in with the arty sim in the middle, or a totally 3d printed pusher that you insert the arty sim into. It just has to be light enough and strong enough to be launched to the proper velocity/acceleration with a standard m781 blank. I had thought about taking a standard M781, drilling a hole in the windshield and inserting & epoxying the projectile to the pusher. The projo would stick out a little like a nipple. Do you're saying you don't think it would have enough velocity to detonate? I do have several boxes of Winchester 38BLP blanks that I have used to reload the M212 cases, and those are definitely hotter than the loads in the issue M781 rounds because they would blow apart the pressure chamber of the case at least half the time with just one shot. If you don't have some of those blanks I'd like to send you some to try. I'm really curious to see if that would be a viable solution but unfortunately I wouldn't have a chance to try it myself for 5 or 6 months. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:16:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Hit me up anytime for the files. I just moved my printer to my shop so I'm starting to make stuff again.
And I will say that putting a 14.5mm sim projo on top of a zinc pusher will NOT work with a standard blank. I imagine it is possible to load a blank hot enough to do it. But that sounds a bit too risky to me when using an aluminum barrel. But I'm not an engineer. I used a factory blank in an exactimpact case with a zinc and it swelled the aluminum casing I even put some pushers in a lathe and removed 30% or more of the weight, then glued a arty sim to the top with a 3d printed nosecone that was designed with a 14.5mm hole in the middle. It did not arm or go off on impact. I did the same thing with the plastic pusher from a m1006 sponge round and it worked fine, but I want a trajectory closer to a m433 or m781 round. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:25:16 AM EDT
[#17]
I need to get a 40mm.
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:29:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Dam your getting me interested in screwing around with my launcher again.
 It was the Boring ammo that got it put away especially after the government got involved and banned bird bombs and the likes . And I even had a Koi pond I need a bird scare devices it just became a pita to acquire anything interesting ??
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Posted: 1/24/2021 3:26:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Are you using the point det arty sims, or the airburst ones?
I don't think that stabilization is required for the AB ones. I bought a few but haven't played around with them yet. I was planning to shoot them our of my registered RV85. Probably using a 20 gauge adapter. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 4:44:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Point det. I have a handful of airburst but only used them in my 20ga. For airburst with the 203, i just use 12ga shell crackers as they are safe to launch in the air
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Posted: 1/25/2021 12:39:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Where are you getting your crakers at ? My sorce has dried up
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:54:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Sutton Ag. Gotta fill out a form that you are using them for pest control. I am all out and need to stock up next paycheck.
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Posted: 1/25/2021 2:57:26 PM EDT
[#23]
As to the original topic, I redesigned my smoke projectile stl file to accept a artillery sim projo. Will be doing some test print in petg and pla in the next day or two. Then some test fires with inert weight simulators to see if the projos hold up to launch. Then you all will see if I get them to work with live projos.
Then, of course, the stl file will be ready for sharing 
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Posted: 1/26/2021 12:07:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Cool, can't wait.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 6:34:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Stayed home from work since my daughters class was virtual this week.
Gave me time to finish the first live projo and do a test. Here is the video, you can only find it at this link for now, as I just threw this video together to give you all an update. I also have the first test shot included in this video from last week. I have a few more versions ready to print. This test was in PETG, I am printing PLA right now. My print times are about 5hrs per projectile. Totall worth it for me to let the printer run a for few days and have an ammo can full of these rounds. Enjoy Project BOOM test #2 |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 7:57:32 PM EDT
[#26]
PLA version up next for testing. I have high hopes for this PLA projo, as I was not getting good infill adhesion with my PETG lately. This was evidenced by the birds nest of petg that I found in the fired nylon case from today's test. The 38 blank must have done a number on it, yet it still looked solid and stable in flight. I still have at least one more design improvement to print and test. As the 14.5mm projo is somewhat difficult to get centered right now. So I will put a cup for the bottom of it to sit in, which will also shorten the tip a little.
This round is also filled with orange chalk around the 14.5mm projo, I'm hoping that it give a bit more of a visual effect. Firefox Ninja smoke mix would probably be amazing to try in place of it.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 1:25:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Nice, does the 3d printed projo survive or does it break up when the arty sim goes off?
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Posted: 1/27/2021 6:46:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Also materials cost aprox on each projectile ?
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Posted: 1/27/2021 7:49:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Here are some answers.
Yes the projectile does break apart. The way it is designed, the spotter charge detonated right in the center of the round, which is why my next test will have orange chalk in the cavity around the spotter round. The spotter projo is also superglued into the printed projo for stability. Material cost is approximately $1 per projectile, plus whatever you can find the artillery sims for. You can easily find them for 2-3 bucks each. Note that these projos will only work with the m83a1 point detonating type, the 3 and 6 second delay rounds require an exposed base for the fuse to light. I am using standard m212 nylon cases with blanks from cdvs that are supposed to be loaded to factory specs. Though I will probably also use aluminum eXact impact cases at some point Velocity is a little bit higher than standard chalk rounds, as the m183a1 requires about 300fps launch to arm the setback fuze. So I may make up some lead weights to make my own practice rounds to get sighted in. I have a couple PLA projectiles ready to test. So if I have time, i will do those tonight. But no promises |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 9:01:48 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 1/27/2021 6:05:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Were you able to recover the projectiles or any part of the projectiles that have the part with the driving band on them? The reason that I ask is because, maybe 10 years ago (before 3D printers were a thing), I made a silicone mold of the zinc pushers and cast some out of polyurethane. When I recovered them later, I saw that the driving bands were pretty much all sheared off. In other words, the projectile wasn't getting a spin on it and was probably coming out like it was fired through a smoothbore. I had a lot of deflection when the rounds were fired which pretty much confirmed this theory. I was wondering if your 3D projectiles exhibited this same behavior, and if so, what would happen if you made the driving band uniform to engage the rifling more firmly instead of having the two thin bands like on the zinc pusher.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 6:26:56 PM EDT
[#32]
The projos im testing have thicker driving bands. But I will shoot some "inert" ones to recover and inspect
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Posted: 1/27/2021 7:15:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Update, PLA held up extremely well. Had clear rifling marks on the driving bands, but the projos are definitely slightly undersized. I will fix that in my next prints which should fix any issues I've had. This is promising
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Posted: 1/27/2021 7:20:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Awesome, keep it goin!
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:24:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Version 7, first prototype printed. I added the 14.5mm cup to the bottom of the internal cavity. This allows for the arty sim (from now on just referred to m183) to sit deeper, and also ensures that the m183 is centered in the projectile. The m183 can be secured with superglue or an epoxy. I also increased the diameter for v7 to fit the barrel better. V6 could be shoved into the rifling by hand, and light could be seen between the projo and barrel wall. The bigger projo should create a better seal to prevent gas blow-by, increasing velocity and also increasing the rifling engagement, which should ensure better projectile stability in flight.
I should have a handful of these projectiles ready for the weekend. If I run out of improvements, and get 100% success rate with firing, then I will reply to emails asking for the file. While this is my most exciting 40mm project to date, it is far from my last.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileFor anyone worried about the durability of these projectiles on launch, I will post the pictures of the base of some fired projos were the launch charge only made it through 1 or 2 of the 50 or so layers of PLA in the base with a standard m781 blank |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 2:24:42 PM EDT
[#36]
I noticed the cavity is bigger than the Artillery sim is this for chalk to fill in an if so how are you going to fill it ?
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:21:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I noticed the cavity is bigger than the Artillery sim is this for chalk to fill in an if so how are you going to fill it ? There are multiple reasons for the large cavity. As you mentioned, it can be filled with colored chalk to enhance the visual effect. The most important reason is that it saves weight, material, and print time. The third reason is that this is essentially a newer version of the (untested by me) smoke projectile that I shared. And it has a printable cap that can be glued in place. This means you can drill the bottom, glue in a section of cannon fuse, and fill the cavity with smoke or spicy smoke mixture. Essentially making it a two purpose round. You could also just fill it with chalk and skip the m183. But I'm not sure it would break on impact. I did hear that my original smoke design worked well filled with sand and used just as a solid projo. I figured it'd be great to be able to run my printer for a few days and have a bunch of projos that I can load however I want. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:23:49 PM EDT
[#38]
And to answer the second part of your question. I filled it halfway with chalk, inserted the m183 while rotating the projo to let the chalk move around it, and then just super glued the m183 in at the top to seal the everything in. Seemed to work just fine, but may be improved
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:52:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Thank-you sir
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Posted: 1/29/2021 11:44:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Just an update/post to document work so far.
Here are pictures of the recovered base of projectile v6. The rest of the projectile was blown apart by the m183. You can see the rifling marks on the driving band and how shallow they are. v7 is a improved with a bigger overall diameter which will give a better gas seal, better rifling engagement, and better velocity. You can also see where the high pressure gas hit the base of the projectile and how well the PLA held up.  Attached File Attached FileIn the m212 case, you can see the remnants from v4 that was printed in petg and see how my printer was causing weird infill that got blasted hard by the high pressure chamber  Attached FileI've got 3 or 4 v7 projectiles to test this weekend. If all goes well, there will be very minor improvements made to make printing and loading easier. I also plan to load some up as smoke rounds and see how that works, as I have plans to make an extended version for more smoke fill. Here is the next test round, it didn't come out perfect, but I printed it on a coworkers printer since he has his nder3 pro in our office while mine runs at my shop.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 6:00:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just an update/post to document work so far. Here are pictures of the recovered base of projectile v6. The rest of the projectile was blown apart by the m183. You can see the rifling marks on the driving band and how shallow they are. v7 is a improved with a bigger overall diameter which will give a better gas seal, better rifling engagement, and better velocity. You can also see where the high pressure gas hit the base of the projectile and how well the PLA held up. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/488159/20210129_101359_jpg-1801806.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/488159/20210129_101222_jpg-1801807.JPG In the m212 case, you can see the remnants from v4 that was printed in petg and see how my printer was causing weird infill that got blasted hard by the high pressure chamber https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/488159/20210129_101138_jpg-1801808.JPG I've got 3 or 4 v7 projectiles to test this weekend. If all goes well, there will be very minor improvements made to make printing and loading easier. I also plan to load some up as smoke rounds and see how that works, as I have plans to make an extended version for more smoke fill. Here is the next test round, it didn't come out perfect, but I printed it on a coworkers printer since he has his nder3 pro in our office while mine runs at my shop. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/488159/20210129_102017_jpg-1801818.JPG Some more questions. Was that fired projectile just a base without the nosecone, or was it a full projectile with the arty sim installed and it blew off the nosecone part of the projectile? It looks like a pretty uniform break. Because those take a while to print, what if you were to make one, and turn the diameter down in order to use a standard blue M781 nosecone on it? How much would that cut down on production time & material? Sure, you have to drill a hole in the blue nosecone, but the pusher seems to hold up well and if you can recover it, it could be reusable and reloadable. To clarify, this would be for using the arty sims. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 6:52:25 PM EDT
[#42]
I could definitely do that, but with the weight of the artillery simulator, if its not perfectly centered, would probably destroy the nose cone when launched. This round could be printed in two pieces pretty easily, especially if I designed a thicker nose cone. But I don't mind doing overnight prints for now. I may explore you're idea in the near future though.
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Posted: 1/29/2021 7:33:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could definitely do that, but with the weight of the artillery simulator, if its not perfectly centered, would probably destroy the nose cone when launched. This round could be printed in two pieces pretty easily, especially if I designed a thicker nose cone. But I don't mind doing overnight prints for now. I may explore you're idea in the near future though. I get what your saying. That was always a concern of mine about mounting those arty sims on a 40mm round. Even if the slightest bit off center, once that gets spinning centrifugal forces would cause that projectile to tumble out of control. |
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Posted: 1/31/2021 3:19:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Somehow I stupidly ran out of PLA. So instead of switching back over to petg for a few days I'm gonna wait for my new order to come. Delays testing about a week.
I did get a couple test shots yesterday. Two had chalk filled in the extra space in the cavity. One did not. The two with chalk did not detonate when they hit my plywood target. Very strange as they both hit nose first and punched through the plywood (well one got lodged in it). The third without the chalk detonated on impact with the ground at a shallow angle. Not sure if it could be a weight issue or not. The recoil felt good and when I slow the video down, they look like they are flying pretty straight. Strange results when compared to V6 that was looser in the bore. No giving up on this project, just delays. I do have a couple buckshot cups printed out that I may get video of testing in the mean time |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 5:44:14 AM EDT
[#45]
I really need to get my house done so me and the 40 can spend more time together and I can get 3D printer set up.
This is way cool OP. 
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Posted: 2/3/2021 8:01:56 AM EDT
[#46]
I seemed to get better results from one wide driving band than the two narrow ones on my printed projectiles.
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Posted: 2/3/2021 7:49:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I seemed to get better results from one wide driving band than the two narrow ones on my printed projectiles. Thanks for the tip. If I encounter any more problems with mine, then I will try that. I got some PLA in the mail yesterday and today, so I've been printing projos pretty steadily. I think I have 7 or 8 printed so far and I plan on shooting on Saturday unless the weather is bad. Its supposed to be pretty cold but thats fine as long as its not windy. Just to add a data point. I print mostly with overture filaments. Its not the cheapest, but the quality seems to be good. I haven't tried PLA+ yet for printing, but I plan to get some of the eSun PLA+ that all the gun groups recommend |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 8:22:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Are you removing the plastic cap off the bottom of the artty sim when loading in the projectile ?
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Posted: 2/3/2021 10:14:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you removing the plastic cap off the bottom of the artty sim when loading in the projectile ? Nope. I don't believe you are supposed to. Rounds getting prepped for this weekend. Still have the printer running as well.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 10:46:56 PM EDT
[#50]
That is sweet. I was gonna buy some arty sims from CDVS but they sold out of the bulk pack right as you posted the update.
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