Primers are tough to come by right now.  I expect the shortage (and sky high prices) to continue for a while.

What are we reloaders to do?  

Just thought I'd create a thread to help each other out with ideas/possibilities/info.  (NOTE: if you are a team member, check out the thread in Team.   ).


If you are not a member, please consider supporting the site and joining up. Lots of benefits to being a member

First off: this video from the Ultimate Reloader channel explains the problem (primers are all going into factory ammo) and even offers some suggestions for how to  scrounge primers using commercial websites:



Next up: some shooters think that we reloaders are reckless and that ammunition cannot be safely reloaded (we all know that isn't true).  there it is: an ignorant opinion some non-reloaders have.  

But what if: we could not only reload ammo, but also primers?  I know of only ONE commercial product on the market right now, by Innovative Reloading Solutions, using another approved, patented process that's been around a few years (I have not tested it).  But here is one possibility to answer the shortage:



If anyone has tested this product, please report back here to let everyone know if it works.


What other ideas/tips/hacks do people have?

One idea I used:  do a Craig's List search on this term:  "reloading" in your area.  It did get me a bunch of primers and some old (but unopened) powder from a shooter in my area.






To all posters, this is a technical forum not GD.

Don't make me edit your post and give an account warning.

Primer threads are bringing about some poor posts lately. dryflash3

Planning ahead seems to be the best bet.

Buy cheap stack deep.

Yes sir!  Best case scenario, this all blows over sometime in 2021.  If that happens, I plan to stack a lot deeper (though I am in good  shape at the moment).

Gavin at UR is full of shit about primers and where they are.
There are already a couple of, non and member, threads on where to find components and, primer compound is a bad idea for most.
<snip> this is not GD. dryflash3

Try looking deep into the internet and find stock around the country.

Resize & decap as per reloading.

Pop anvil & hammer cap to normal shape.  Anneal.

Make DDNP.

Distribute an aliquot of 50mg

Insert anvil.

Allow to dry.

Reprime

Care to elaborate for those of us who don’t know how to “look deep into the internet”? @gspbirdog

Primer compounds are nothing to play with. Some chemicals used are poisonous and mix it wrong, it will blow if you fart around it.

There use to be info on the net to make timer compounds but much of it disappeared. Probably because it is a high explosive.

This thread is a train wreck waiting to be locked...

Making primers isn’t practical.

Prove me wrong.

Primer compound once it is dry is very sustainable to static electricity. Primer compounds are nothing to fool around with without proper safety equipment.

Did ya twitch a little when you hit rough spots in the road?

Sharing some of these tips would be terrific!


While we are waiting for a few secrets:

- besides CraigsList, it’s possible to find reloading supplies for sale on FaceBook Marketplace.

- what other “classified” type websites are active in your area? (Might want to share resources in your HTF, if not in this thread).

I find the “you’ll shoot your eye out, kid!” replies really tiresome.  And now, I can certainly much better appreciate our moderators reluctance to host any discussion involving primer reloading kits! ).

This is a tech forum.  If you have no technical info to contribute, please don’t post.  If you have not tried the commercially available and legal reloading product I posted, then you have no knowledge, experience, or relevant experience to add (so don’t).

- I posted the ONE primer reloading kit I could find.  Have you tried it?  No? (neither have I).  Who is to say it CANNOT be done safely?

Thank you, and again, this is a tech forum.  Now, back to the topic of the primer-shortage work arounds.

I said it’s not practical. I never said it wasn’t safe, although I know it isn’t.

Here is another work around option...
I have no experience with this.  
It might work with your prime-all?

I think he means plotting out any shooting stores within a given area.  Put it in the GPS and driving to each one.  

Scouting out the older, out of the way “mom and pop” gun shops is a great idea for finding primers!

Hardware stores (at least when I was a kid) also sell guns sometimes, and they might even have primers left on the shelves.

http://www.aardvarkreloading.com/resources/homemadeprimercourse.pdf

I tried reloading berdan primers using paper caps a couple years ago, but I don't think I ever got around to try firing them.  They are still sitting in my basement.

Thinking of experimenting a little more with paper caps again.

Edit: made link hot

Just found an updated (March 2020) pdf from the same guy.

http://www.aardvarkreloading.com/resources/SHTF%20Homemade%20Primers%202020-03-23.pdf






http://www.aardvarkreloading.com/primers.html

Thanks TribunusSanGeorgi!  

That updated link contains a research grade paper detailing several methods of primer reloading.

Very professional!

OST.

I have some I just received last week

I was going to do a batch of 50 small primers to test

Im having a hell of a time removing the anvils. In fact I gave up until I can figure something out

Was using dental pics and pliers and not having a easy time at all. Didnt get a one out

Hey man - I really like the threads you create!  Great content.  

On removing anvils:  try dry tumbling them in fine crushed walnut (I’ve had fired primers come apart that way).

Please let us know what works.

I know some of you men don’t ventured into the “general discussion” (GD) part of Arfcom - where some of the COC rules are relaxed.  

Can’t say I blame you if that’s your choice.

But I’ve noticed numerous threads about - of all things - primers, in GD.

I mentioned this only to point out my observation that the primer shortage is real right now, and it’s serious.  I do not know when this will all blow over.

Point is:  do yourself a favor if you happen to run across primers someplace (anyplace) and buy yourself what you can afford.

I have a good supply of large pistol primers, but my supply of small pistol primers is only about half what I'd like. One of the cartridges I load a lot of is .38 Special, which takes SPPs. However, once upon a time, some .38 (and .357) brass was made to take LPPs. So, I wondered if it would be possible to modify .38 brass with small primer pockets to take LPPs.

After doing some research I found that others have done this in the past. Today, I modified a few cases using my mini lathe. I posted a writeup with pictures on one of my blogs:

https://survivalpreps.blogspot.com/2020/11/converting-38-special-brass-to-accept.html

At this point it's mostly a proof of concept but it could come in useful in the long term.

Thanks Dave M. !!

Very cool stuff.  This is exactly the sort of info I am hoping to collect in one place to help out other shooters.

I don’t think that a lot of the nay sayers are trying to be simply Debbie downers and haters.

You can do what you want first off, but I would like to make some points.

Reloading ammunition is well established, and there is a vast body of knowledge out there for it, lots of mistakes have been made, and you can learn from other people’s mistakes. That is not really true with reloading primers. There is some knowledge, it has been done by private individuals, but we have not found all the ways to screw this up yet.

Consistency is going to be difficult. A lot of the tooling will probably have to be made or adapted from other uses. Especially to reform the primer shell with the rounded shoulders.

My scalded, both electronic and balance, are only accurate to within .1 grain.
.1 grains in a magnum rifle case is perfectly fine, even on a 5 grain pistol load it is a perfectly acceptable Margin of error.

How much play do you have with primer compound?

.5 grains of primer compound.... +- .1 grains is a 20% variance up or down.

<off topic post removed> dryflash3

Use volume not weight. The big companies spread the wet priming compound across boards filling primer sized cavities. At least from what I remember.

Would these be " corrosive'' ?

Yes and that includes the .22 LR reloading kits. So, clean your gun thoroughly that day using something that includes water in the mix, to flush out the corrosive salts. Then make sure it's dry and oil it.

Thanks for posting all this, very interesting.
Off I go down another rabbit hole.....

Ok that compound looks cool. I'm still a newb though so I'm pretty sure I have to wait for affordable primers to start.

For an advanced loader that could allow you a hedge against shortages.

He alluded to reloading 22 in that video.  I didn't know that was possible.

Men - I think I found the most comprehensive, free, book on the manufacture of ammunition on the net!

This thing is amazing! (And covers not only primer manufacture, but just everything else).

Chapter VI is specific to primers (I want to give credit to the Arcomer who found this, so here is the Arfcom link - made hot):

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/1990-PDF-book-you-should-download-manufacture-of-ammo/5-2399286/

Apparently Midway’s website is indicating that Remington primers are discontinued.  

Granted - it’s the only site I checked.  Can anyone confirm?

I did see that someone bought Remington’s ammunition branch, and I can’t believe right now they’ve stopped making ammo.  But are Remington reloading primers gone for good?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Are-all-Remington-primers-discontinued-/42-519412/

Wow this is just all over the net with all sorts of speculation. Remington went chapter 11 and Vista bought out Remington Ammo. They called all the old Remington employees back Nov 15th, I think. Just maybe they are ready to ship ammo and primers and Midway just renegotiated a new contract. Maybe they will sell the old Remington primers under the federal or cci brand name.

Estate sales-Not just the ones locally. Lots of high end firearms collector grade dealers frequently purchase entire estates for a few choice specimens. Reloading equipment, components and handloaded ammo is considered a liability in such transactions.

Look in that direction.

This is a good suggestion.  Thanks !


EDIT:   On a different note:  .45 ACP certainly CAN be reloaded with simple caps; the following data includes chronograph results and he achieved 100% reliability:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?410816-Reloading-primers-with-toy-caps-results


I am aware there are YouTube videos where others had high rates of failures - up to half; but I understand that person used only one cap instead of 2.

Tons of info in this thread:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Reloading-primers-with-snap-cap-rolls-the-ones-used-for-toy-guns-/42-520939/?r=5453488&page=1&anc=5453488#i5453488

Ok - update from this morning.  

Note: this CCI video about the ammunition and primer supply was just posted this AM to YouTube (there was a different, but similar-looking video, posted a few weeks back.  This is from today).



Looks like the shortage will continue for a while.

Looks like we are screwed as far as primers go.

Your link does not work for me.  It takes me to GD, not to a thread.

For those of you who shoot cap and ball revolvers and who are having problems finding percussion caps, you can use plastic caps for cap guns, such as these. I've tried them a couple times when using real black powder and the shots went off as quickly as with CCI or RWS caps.

Compared with real percussion caps they aren't as strong. However, in a percussion revolver the nipple goes directly into the base of the powder charge, so it doesn't seem to be a problem at least with real black powder. I have not tested the toy caps with substitutes like Pyrodex or Triple 7, which have higher ignition temperatures.

These are filled with Armstrong's Mixture, which is corrosive. Since if you're shooting a percussion revolver you need to clean it thoroughly afterwards, this isn't a big deal. Worth noting if you just pop a cap on a nipple without a charge in the chamber, though.

Good way for people to get hurt and blow up guns. I can understand having a few of the primer kits around for a true SHTFEOW scenario but actually using them in handguns, precision rifles, and my big bore rifles, forget it.

For non-payers, the archive is locked.

It's locked for everyone right now...  I can't see it either.

ETA:  I knew I downloaded the book, but couldn't remember what book it was.  I just found it and then googled to find the downloadable copy again.  Here it is.

Ammunition Making by George Frost

@Trollslayer

Ignorant:

adjective.

lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned:
“an ignorant man.”

I grow tired of the posts by people - ignorant people - who have no knowledge of the thread topic, and yet they speculate that it will “blow up guns” or some other unsupported, speculative risk.

Would anyone care to post evidence of “blown up guns” resulting from a reloaded PRIMER??!?  Anyone?  Even ONE example??

If you have NO experience here, then you have nothing constructive to contribute.  Therefore, please do not contribute.  Your cares and concerns for MY personal safety are noted; thanks.

All others:  please continue, on - topic if you don’t mind.


Thanks to Trollslayer, for his excellent post in the thread I linked above.    Trollslayer clarifies the issue better than I could have, so I’ll just copy what he researched:

“There is another web site around with publication(s) by W. Marshall Thompson PhD.  I down loaded a copy of his "Homemade Primer Course", April 29, 2014" but forgot to copy the URL.  

Under the heading of, "Is It Legal" he offers this,

"According to current BATFE rules, making ammunition primers for your own personal use is legal (as is
making your own fireworks.) Selling them or even giving them away is not legal without acquiring the
appropriate Federal Licence(s) for manufacturing and selling explosives. Despite the absence of Federal
restrictions on personal primer manufacture, there may be state regulations that affect how you store
certain chemical compounds and in what quantities they may be stored. Consult competent legal advice
if you are unsure of your particular situation. Be aware that making primers in your home, garage, or
external workshop is likely to carry more restrictions than making them in a commercially zoned
building."

I also downloaded a copy of his "SHTF Homemade Primers", March 23, 2020 .  In this SHTF version he offers this -

Is it Legal

"In a SHTF situation, legality is of little concern as most laws will no longer be enforced. More likely, the
law of the jungle will exist, and life will be cruel and cheap. The major problem one must overcome in
this difficult situation is obtaining the supplies/chemicals needed to make workable primers. Prior
planning is worth its weight in gold here, but there are still options if you missed the boat. The more
civilization left in place, the easier it will be to get what you need to make primers."

I have some stock on hand but I also believe in working on projects before they are needed.  My development of alternative loads for my rifle is one of those.

When I read things like, "learning to make potassium chlorate from bleach and salt substitute sold in stores" or "finely ground fast pistol powder can be substituted for TNT in this primer formula", ... well, you just know you have embarked on a long journey.

Be careful if you go down this path.”


The higher prices of new primers go, the more realistic the reloading option becomes.

I think necessity is gonna elevate and open minds to innovation and possibilities.Primers are not a difficult thing.If the primer dry spell continues I bet it won’t be long before the minds in the gun community figure out a workable solution.Maybe it’s a new kid on the block that sells domestically produced quality primers or maybe it’s D.I.Y. primer loading kits...Someone is gonna figure it out if there is money to be made.