Please treat your IR lasers like loaded firearms, except..

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Please treat your IR lasers like loaded firearms, except.. (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 12/3/2017 9:47:41 AM EDT

A laser is going to reflect off everything even remotely shiny and you won’t know you’re being beamed until it’s too late.

My buddy and I were boar hunting this morning. Hehas a full power ATPIAL. Had it on Hi/Hi with the filter over the laser aperture, but the Illuminator was not covered. Saw a boar, shot it out of his truck window and then stashed the rifle muzzle up leaning against the shifter. Drove to get the boar loaded it in the truck and drove all the way home. Like that. Started complaining of eye pain. I guess that shit was pointed right at him for 15 mins bouncing around reflecting off windows and shit. He was good with unloading the rifle but he never once checked the laser.

He’s got a spot on his eye and will be going to the Dr tomorrow.

Posted: 12/3/2017 10:08:55 AM EDT

[#1]

Bad news, that is permanent retinal damage.

Posted: 12/3/2017 10:28:56 AM EDT

[#2]

Please let us know what the Dr. says, and what, if any treatment he recommends.

Posted: 12/3/2017 10:40:26 AM EDT

[#3]

Good word and really hope for the best for your friend

Posted: 12/3/2017 10:40:49 AM EDT

[#4]

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Bad news, that is permanent retinal damage.

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This is true. But more that likely that laser will go through the glass and not reflect. Hope all is well with buddy. But it's very unlikely the Beam would bounce from a typical car window.

Posted: 12/3/2017 11:00:01 AM EDT

[#5]

Sorry to hear that about your friend. You have to treat the rotary switch on your LAM as your safety. Hope he'll recover 100%

Posted: 12/3/2017 11:28:42 AM EDT

[#6]

Guess I’m confused.if the laser was painting his face wasn’t the rifle bore?

Shooting out of a truck and laying your rifle against the shifter he’s lucky he only has a sore eye.
Regardless,wish him the best!

I’ll go back to my Mr. Obvious where mistakes never happen land now.

Posted: 12/3/2017 11:40:54 AM EDT

[#7]

I'm too poor for this PSA to be relevant to me. Hope your buddy recovers.

Posted: 12/3/2017 12:58:11 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is true. But more that likely that laser will go through the glass and not reflect. Hope all is well with buddy. But it's very unlikely the Beam would bounce from a typical car window.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Bad news, that is permanent retinal damage.

This is true. But more that likely that laser will go through the glass and not reflect. Hope all is well with buddy. But it's very unlikely the Beam would bounce from a typical car window.

Most windows block (reflect) UV light. I don't know about IR, but I would guess that they are designed to reflect IR to help keep interiors cool.

Posted: 12/3/2017 1:13:31 PM EDT

[#9]

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Most windows block (reflect) UV light. I don't know about IR, but I would guess that they are designed to reflect IR to help keep interiors cool.

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There are lots of variables. IR is a pretty broad spectrum but most wave lengths penetrate most types of glass unless it specifically designed to keep that wave length out. I have tested a couple types of IR lasers through many types of glass and composites and very few have effect. Most that do tend to absorb some heat but the light goes straight through.

eta: not saying it isn't possible. There's also lots of other stuff in a vehicle that 100% can and will bounce a beam.

Posted: 12/3/2017 1:17:54 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
There are lots of variables. IR is a pretty broad spectrum but most wave lengths penetrate most types of glass unless it specifically designed to keep that wave length out. I have tested a couple types of IR lasers through many types of glass and composites and very few have effect. Most that do tend to absorb some heat but the light goes straight through.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Most windows block (reflect) UV light. I don't know about IR, but I would guess that they are designed to reflect IR to help keep interiors cool.

There are lots of variables. IR is a pretty broad spectrum but most wave lengths penetrate most types of glass unless it specifically designed to keep that wave length out. I have tested a couple types of IR lasers through many types of glass and composites and very few have effect. Most that do tend to absorb some heat but the light goes straight through.

I did a quick search, and saw that some window films "absorb" IR light. Not sure what that means. I don't think I would want film that made my windows hot.

Posted: 12/3/2017 1:22:39 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
There are lots of variables. IR is a pretty broad spectrum but most wave lengths penetrate most types of glass unless it specifically designed to keep that wave length out. I have tested a couple types of IR lasers through many types of glass and composites and very few have effect. Most that do tend to absorb some heat but the light goes straight through.

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I don’t know what kind of testing you’ve been doing, but I’ve lased plenty of windows, windshields, glass fragments, etc. with aiming lasers “IRL,” and while yes, some of it goes through, you can still get some pretty significant reflection/bloom/splashback, espcially depending on angle and distance.

Spectrums, power, yadda, yadda, maybe the glass reduces it enough not to cause permanent damage (fingers crossed in this case), but you’re still going to get some of it coming back at you.

~Augee

Posted: 12/3/2017 1:25:58 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
There are lots of variables. IR is a pretty broad spectrum but most wave lengths penetrate most types of glass unless it specifically designed to keep that wave length out. I have tested a couple types of IR lasers through many types of glass and composites and very few have effect. Most that do tend to absorb some heat but the light goes straight through.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Most windows block (reflect) UV light. I don't know about IR, but I would guess that they are designed to reflect IR to help keep interiors cool.

There are lots of variables. IR is a pretty broad spectrum but most wave lengths penetrate most types of glass unless it specifically designed to keep that wave length out. I have tested a couple types of IR lasers through many types of glass and composites and very few have effect. Most that do tend to absorb some heat but the light goes straight through.

Also depends on coatings as well, along with window tints, etc. I've seen many reflections off glass either way. Subject title says it all, just like the terrible story of the hog hunter getting killed several months ago with thermal due to no PID. Safety, safety, safety....

Let's hope for the best for your friends eye.

Posted: 12/3/2017 1:28:17 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
There are lots of variables. IR is a pretty broad spectrum but most wave lengths penetrate most types of glass unless it specifically designed to keep that wave length out. I have tested a couple types of IR lasers through many types of glass and composites and very few have effect. Most that do tend to absorb some heat but the light goes straight through.

eta: not saying it isn't possible. There's also lots of other stuff in a vehicle that 100% can and will bounce a beam.

View Quote

I was just trying to point out that a laser will reflect off things and damage your eye. Bullets ricochet but not off everything (they will just go through it)

It didn’t matter if it reflected or not for him unfortunately, the IR was pointed right at his face for quite a while.

Posted: 12/3/2017 1:58:29 PM EDT

[#14]

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Most windows block (reflect) UV light. I don't know about IR, but I would guess that they are designed to reflect IR to help keep interiors cool.

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Automotive glass lets in short IR, but blocks long IR.

That's why your car gets so hot in the summertime sitting in the sun.

The shortwave stuff heats up all the surfaces in the car, then they emit longer wave IR which can't get back out through the glass, so it gets hot as hell inside the car.

Posted: 12/3/2017 2:02:48 PM EDT

[#15]

Whenever I meet up with a group of guys to do NVG shit, I always wear the green IR laser lense eye protection, the lenses are not cheap and are kind of annoying, but I'd you look on eBay you can find them for less, my revision sawfly IR lens was only $15 bucks.

I have seen some real idiots do some real retarded shit with full power lasers, most people are 100% ignorant of the danger. Some wrap around IR laser goggles give me a little piece of mind.

Posted: 12/3/2017 2:05:19 PM EDT

[#16]

He didn’t notice it was still on when he was putting the NODs away?

Posted: 12/3/2017 2:16:11 PM EDT

[#17]

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He didn’t notice it was still on when he was putting the NODs away?

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I wasn’t there and I’m not really inquiring as to hey man how did you permanently ruin your vision but I would guess he shot the boar threw the rifle in the truck, ripped his NV off and drove to get him. Never putting the NV back on.

In time if he’s not so devastated I will ask exactly what he did.

Posted: 12/3/2017 2:19:23 PM EDT

[#18]

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Whenever I meet up with a group of guys to do NVG shit, I always wear the green IR laser lense eye protection, the lenses are not cheap and are kind of annoying, but I'd you look on eBay you can find them for less, my revision sawfly IR lens was only $15 bucks.

I have seen some real idiots do some real retarded shit with full power lasers, most people are 100% ignorant of the danger. Some wrap around IR laser goggles give me a little piece of mind.

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So have I.

peg 15's lightsaber battle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41g6-B7kOzo

Posted: 12/3/2017 3:10:00 PM EDT

[#19]

That sucks. Guy was probably stoked and hyped up from the shoot and didn’t think twice about it.

It’s easy to say “he shoulda” with the benefit of hindsight but I’m sure we’ve all had our moments.

Hope he is ok. The body is pretty resilient and I’ve seen a lot of recovery when doctors were in doubt. Eye pain sounds bad though.

Both eyes? Just one? It’s hard to imagine the beam hit just one eye for long stretches of time. While your vehicle feels smooth, especially if it’s newer, things vibrate and bounce quite a bit. Hopefully this means there wasn’t a lot of full blown exposure to one eye

Posted: 12/3/2017 3:11:42 PM EDT

[#20]

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So have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41g6-B7kOzo

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“It seemed like fun at the time” as they are all blind now lol.

Posted: 12/3/2017 3:16:05 PM EDT

[#21]

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I wasn’t there and I’m not really inquiring as to hey man how did you permanently ruin your vision but I would guess he shot the boar threw the rifle in the truck, ripped his NV off and drove to get him. Never putting the NV back on.

In time if he’s not so devastated I will ask exactly what he did.

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Lol I shouldn't laugh but that's funny

Posted: 12/3/2017 3:21:39 PM EDT

[#22]

peq and dbal auto shut off after 5 mins, a good thing im sure in this case!

Posted: 12/3/2017 3:24:15 PM EDT

[#23]

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peq and dbal auto shut off after 5 mins, a good thing im sure in this case!

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this.

5 minutes is still a long time to be subjected to any IR laser in a confined space potentially shining you in the face. In for an update.

Posted: 12/3/2017 5:01:51 PM EDT

[#24]

Is this an issue with the civilian lasers like the OTAL-C?

Do the green tinted lenses affect the image of the NOD?

I guess the PVS-14 needs an IR filter too?

Posted: 12/3/2017 6:29:42 PM EDT

[#25]

Sorry about your friend. Thank you for the reminder.

Posted: 12/3/2017 7:15:43 PM EDT

[#26]

This is also why almost every unit including civil stuff has a visible light that illuminates when the unit is actively emitting ir.

Eta:Or they have a clearly marked setting knob.

Posted: 12/3/2017 11:02:54 PM EDT

[#27]

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This is also why almost every unit including civil stuff has a visible light that illuminates when the unit is actively emitting ir.

Eta:Or they have a clearly marked setting knob.

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I know in the USMC we never even removed the blue safety screw from our PEQs even in Iraq.

I’m not sure how Eye safe a civilian IR laser is though. Does anyone have any insight on that? How much damage would an ATPIAL C pointed directly into your eye 5 feet away do? Nothing? Eye ache? Or permanent damage?

Posted: 12/3/2017 11:19:50 PM EDT

[#28]

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I know in the USMC we never even removed the blue safety screw from our PEQs even in Iraq.

I’m not sure how Eye safe a civilian IR laser is though. Does anyone have any insight on that? How much damage would an ATPIAL C pointed directly into your eye 5 feet away do? Nothing? Eye ache? Or permanent damage?

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I don't think any laser is eye safe. Ever

Even the little piss-ant red ones will disturb your vision for a while at distances of a few miles, according to folks who have been squirted in aircraft.

Posted: 12/3/2017 11:56:44 PM EDT

[#29]

I don't care how "unloaded" a rifle is—I'm still not storing it with the barrel pointed right at my face.

I hope your friend is ok.

Posted: 12/4/2017 1:26:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Why muzzle up? That just seems like a bad idea all around.

Posted: 12/4/2017 5:16:51 PM EDT

[#31]

I guess it's always a good idea to be sure that shit you can't see is turned off.

The guys who fart around with fluorescent minerals always have to be careful to keep reflections from their UV lamps out of their eyes, and that it really isn't a good idea to look into it "to see if it is on".

I know of one case where a foreign graduate student in a crystallography lab was grabbed and forcibly pulled back just as he was about to look into an x-ray beam "to see if it was on".

Posted: 12/4/2017 9:46:41 PM EDT

[#32]

Any update on your friends status?

Hope he doesn’t have any permanent damage.

Posted: 12/4/2017 10:41:12 PM EDT

[#33]

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Any update on your friends status?

Hope he doesn’t have any permanent damage.

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I don’t know the specifics but they think it’s temporary.

Posted: 12/4/2017 11:41:17 PM EDT

[#34]

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I don’t know the specifics but they think it’s temporary.

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Does he still see the dark spot?

Posted: 12/5/2017 6:01:31 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
I don’t know the specifics but they think it’s temporary.

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There was a guy on candlepowerforums years ago who zapped himself in the eye accidentally. Laser reflected off something in his house and pop, instant spot in his field of vision. After a year (possibly longer) he posted an update that the spot was mostly gone and admitted he felt lucky considering it could have much worse.

Posted: 12/5/2017 9:25:18 AM EDT

[#36]

The human body can be a lot tougher, and sometimes a lot weaker than you think. I’m not completely shocked they said that.

One thing is for sure, I’ll bet he turns into the number one laser safety nazi.

Posted: 12/5/2017 10:38:15 AM EDT

[#37]

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I don’t know the specifics but they think it’s temporary.

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Awesome, I wish him well.

Posted: 12/5/2017 10:54:00 AM EDT

[#38]

IR laser damage is permanent. The floaters he is seeing in his vitreous humor are a result of the retinal necrosis and resulting inflammation aggravating the initial injury to the retinal ganglion cells.

He will be very fortunate if he does not experience Posterior Uvetitis bilaterally and lose sight from the S-antigen secretion in his other eye, resulting in serious permanent blindness in both eyes. Any inflammation in one eye can result in Autoimmune inflammatory Uveitis in both eyes and permanent loss of vision and is a very serious disease.

https://nei.nih.gov/health/uveitis/uveitis

Posted: 12/5/2017 11:44:47 AM EDT

[#39]

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IR laser damage is permanent. The floaters he is seeing in his vitreous humor are a result of the retinal necrosis and resulting inflammation aggravating the initial injury to the retinal ganglion cells.

He will be very fortunate if he does not experience Posterior Uvetitis bilaterally and lose sight from the S-antigen secretion in his other eye, resulting in serious permanent blindness in both eyes. Any inflammation in one eye can result in Autoimmune inflammatory Uveitis in both eyes and permanent loss of vision and is a very serious disease.

https://nei.nih.gov/health/uveitis/uveitis

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While all technically true and possible if the eye doctors who actually performed the examination said it’s probably temporary I’d probably take their word for it.

Even though doctors can be wrong and beyond that morons even.

Like I mentioned earlier even the smoothest cars bounce a lot. I doubt the beam was in the exact same position on his eye for a lengthy amount of time.

Posted: 12/5/2017 12:07:13 PM EDT

[#40]

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Bad news, that is permanent retinal damage.

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Posted: 12/5/2017 12:20:15 PM EDT

[#41]

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While all technically true and possible if the eye doctors who actually performed the examination said it’s probably temporary I’d probably take their word for it.

Even though doctors can be wrong and beyond that morons even.

Like I mentioned earlier even the smoothest cars bounce a lot. I doubt the beam was in the exact same position on his eye for a lengthy amount of time.

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If he is still seeing a dark (or black) spot, the retina is either damaged or destroyed in that spot.

The retina is a pretty damned delicate thing, and can be irreversibly damaged fairly easily.

I hope your friend didn't permanently damage his vision.

Posted: 12/6/2017 6:43:33 PM EDT

[#42]

There are at least two soldiers sitting in the military prison in Fort Leavenworth because they thought it would be funny to shine lasers in people's eyes while deployed. One hurt over 200 soldiers in the DFAC. They caught him because most of the injured went to sick call at the same time and the DFAC had cameras.

ETA fix autocorrect

Posted: 12/6/2017 7:27:14 PM EDT

[#43]

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I don’t know the specifics but they think it’s temporary.

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Good to hear that he's probably ok.

Posted: 12/6/2017 10:57:23 PM EDT

[#44]

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There are at least two soldiers sitting in the military prison in Fort Leavenworth because they thought it would be funny to shine lasers in people's eyes while deployed. One hurt over 200 soldiers in the DFAC. They caught him because most of the injured went to sick call at the same time and the DFAC had cameras.

ETA fix autocorrect

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I for one, hope they sit there for a very long time.

Yet another example of people who can't distinguish between "stupid" and "funny".

They probably think they got fucked by the system, because folks didn't understand that it was just a "joke".

Posted: 1/5/2018 11:17:56 AM EDT

[#45]

Update?

Posted: 1/5/2018 11:46:16 AM EDT

[#46]

Yesterday I had a long educational coversation with a Member of a Large Metro SWAT team in TX interested in LA-5 laser/ Illuminators, they want to be able to absolutely flood an area with IR light for their SWAT members to see as well as Snipers, especially into buildings through windons and open doors. Not a bad want, however I asked him if laser safety to both His officers and the public was important to him? He said "of course, but what do you mean?" You see he had no idea that class 3 lasers like PEQ-2's PEQ 15's LA-5's and MAWL DA's could and would damage peoples eye sight and could destroy an intensifier tube with laser damage from even breif exposure to units like that, and had inadvertantly been doing so to both citizens and his officers ever since they got their hand me down PEQ-15's from the Gov't 1033.

I wonder how many people they have injured over the years because they did not read the product manual.
I explained if they want range and eye safety all in one package the MAWL C1+ is the best route to go down, certainly cheaper than an LA-5 and less liability.

Posted: 1/5/2018 12:38:58 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yesterday I had a long educational coversation with a Member of a Large Metro SWAT team in TX interested in LA-5 laser/ Illuminators, they want to be able to absolutely flood an area with IR light for their SWAT members to see as well as Snipers, especially into buildings through windons and open doors. Not a bad want, however I asked him if laser safety to both His officers and the public was important to him? He said "of course, but what do you mean?" You see he had no idea that class 3 lasers like PEQ-2's PEQ 15's LA-5's and MAWL DA's could and would damage peoples eye sight and could destroy an intensifier tube with laser damage from even breif exposure to units like that, and had inadvertantly been doing so to both citizens and his officers ever since they got their hand me down PEQ-15's from the Gov't 1033.

I wonder how many people they have injured over the years because they did not read the product manual.
I explained if they want range and eye safety all in one package the MAWL C1+ is the best route to go down, certainly cheaper than an LA-5 and less liability.

View Quote

That's pretty scary actually.

Posted: 1/5/2018 1:31:25 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yesterday I had a long educational coversation with a Member of a Large Metro SWAT team in TX interested in LA-5 laser/ Illuminators, they want to be able to absolutely flood an area with IR light for their SWAT members to see as well as Snipers, especially into buildings through windons and open doors. Not a bad want, however I asked him if laser safety to both His officers and the public was important to him? He said "of course, but what do you mean?" You see he had no idea that class 3 lasers like PEQ-2's PEQ 15's LA-5's and MAWL DA's could and would damage peoples eye sight and could destroy an intensifier tube with laser damage from even breif exposure to units like that, and had inadvertantly been doing so to both citizens and his officers ever since they got their hand me down PEQ-15's from the Gov't 1033.

I wonder how many people they have injured over the years because they did not read the product manual.
I explained if they want range and eye safety all in one package the MAWL C1+ is the best route to go down, certainly cheaper than an LA-5 and less liability.

View Quote

It's a shame that someone needed to have it explained to them why shining lasers at peoples faces is a bad idea.

Posted: 1/5/2018 1:56:33 PM EDT

[#49]

After reading over the many responses here in this thread regarding IR Illuminators, IR lasers,and such, it is easy for me to see why the FDA regulates these instruments so highly from civilian use as the lack of knowledge of their effects on the human eye leaves much to be desired.

Posted: 1/5/2018 2:07:12 PM EDT

[#50]

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After reading over the many responses here in this thread regarding IR Illuminators, IR lasers,and such, it is easy for me to see why the FDA regulates these instruments so highly from civilian use as the lack of knowledge of their effects on the human eye leaves much to be desired.

View Quote

Same reason they regulate MGs. I had a ND/AD on a familiarization fire with a PPsH41 because I was unfamiliar with open bolts. It went in a safe direction and didn't hurt anyone so that was good.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Please treat your IR lasers like loaded firearms, except.. (Page 1 of 2)

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