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Posted: 10/15/2020 10:21:54 AM EDT
My second purchase from TNVC, and goddamn was my PVS14 a gateway drug.
IR Patrol m300W weapon kit is ordered.  
I mostly wanted a scanner for hunting and for nightly training and patrolling, but for the extra money, to have the ability to clip-on or use it as standalone scope seemed a no-brainer.
I am usually in fairly dense forest, which I know will present a challenge to a thermal device, as it does to I2.  But in a SHTF scenario there are many suburbs and urban areas nearby.

This is my first foray into thermal.  Teach me something about it.  
How much brush is conceivable to detect through?
What conditions are ideal?  
In what situations does thermal really give me an edge over other skills and technologies?
I know you can't see through glass, but are there other oddities to know about?
Lastly, do I need any accessories for the Patrol(fuck I hope not)

Thanks all, much appreciated.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 10:43:07 AM EDT
Welcome to the world of thermal. Generally there’s not a lot of accessories to worry about but if your unit uses small batteries you may want to look into an external battery that will last for hours and hours.

Lots of practice at night is the best advice I can give. Your thermal probably has adjustments like a brightness control and then gain control along with matching your eye diopter and naturally a focus ring. You just have to go out and change the settings under different weather conditions to maximize what you can see. This is especially true in heavy humidity, mist, or rain. These three conditions can cause surroundings to wash out but any warm blooded animal should stand out like a sore thumb. 😊
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 6:45:45 PM EDT
Wait until you look through that sumbitch and then report back here . Worth every damn penny and I will echo the same amount the external battery. You'll definitely want that.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:21:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:51:46 PM EDT
Looks like about everything has been covered, but I will bring up one oddity of thermal that most people don't realize at first.
Some things will reflect LWIR like a mirror so some objects may appear hot but they are really reflecting the heat off of something else. For example, try to look into your car window with your thermal and you will likely see your body heat reflected in the image.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 11:11:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2020 11:18:47 PM EDT by Hard_ware]
16650 battery $7ea

https://www.illumn.com/16650-sanyo-ur16650zta-4-35v-2500mah-flat-top.html

Get at least 4 and a charger that will charge to 4.35v

Amazon charger aisn# B07H32WVTF      $30

It will fit in place of using 2 cr123 batts. Lasts about 2-3 hrs per cell. 4 batts will go all night. I have been running these for years no problems. Don’t need to turn it off and on, just leave it on and change batts every couple hours. Turn it off when not needed for longer periods.

I soldered a small ball of solder on the + terminal to make better contact as these cells are flat tops, the solder makes a 1/2 bb sized dome and will make contact like a normal cell does.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 11:18:13 PM EDT
I will add, don't be freaked out the first time you use it, and you realize your vision is temporarily impacted in that eye. Eventually, you won't even notice, but it can be kind of freaky the first time.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 12:53:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SnazSleepWalker:
My second purchase from TNVC, and goddamn was my PVS14 a gateway drug.
IR Patrol m300W weapon kit is ordered.  
I mostly wanted a scanner for hunting and for nightly training and patrolling, but for the extra money, to have the ability to clip-on or use it as standalone scope seemed a no-brainer.
I am usually in fairly dense forest, which I know will present a challenge to a thermal device, as it does to I2.  But in a SHTF scenario there are many suburbs and urban areas nearby.

This is my first foray into thermal.  Teach me something about it.  
How much brush is conceivable to detect through?
What conditions are ideal?  
In what situations does thermal really give me an edge over other skills and technologies?
I know you can't see through glass, but are there other oddities to know about?
Lastly, do I need any accessories for the Patrol(fuck I hope not)

Thanks all, much appreciated.
View Quote


Just to answer some of your questions:

1-Thermal is still line of sight so as long as the brush is not fully hiding the critter you will be able to detect. ID is another matter.

2-Ideal conditions are dry and cool. Hot and humid will degrade the image but I have seen the worst possible conditions still provide a usable (not great) image with a good thermal.

3-Thermal is king of detection especially for efficiency. It takes a few seconds to scan 360 degrees around you and determine if anything alive is within view.

My humble suggestion is to have a decent magnification scope (either thermal or i2). 1x is not very good for ID or shooting anything further than 100 yards. Its possible, but not ideal.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 9:07:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2020 9:08:20 AM EDT by TX-Zen]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KoreyKirsch:
I will add, don't be freaked out the first time you use it, and you realize your vision is temporarily impacted in that eye. Eventually, you won't even notice, but it can be kind of freaky the first time.
View Quote
On the Abrams we called that eye smear haha

The interior tank lights are very dim and your eyes get night adapted, but when your shooting eye is glued to the gunsight that bright ass green image burns your retina and you see a dark shadow for a long time. It makes you think your shooting eye has gone blind
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 10:20:29 AM EDT
I have the same thermal. Use it often.
Start saving right now for a magnifier. These snap into the objective lens.
I had ordered a 60-ish mm 3X magnifier but kept a 52mm that was shipped in error.

The 1X native power of the system is perfect for what I do. 1X and the wide field of view is what I generally need. But, every now and then I want to "get closer", and that magnifier really makes an astonishing difference. With 3X optical and 2X digital zoom, you can see detail that will knock your socks off, but you aren't stuck with magnification as you would be with a dedicated magnified scope.

You made a great choice. Well done.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 12:52:22 PM EDT
What have you found to be the best source for the magnifiers?
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 1:20:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2020 1:28:38 PM EDT by mort]
Watch some thermal hog hunting videos on teh youtubes.  Look for videos where they are hunting in rain/snow/humid especially if they are using both light gathering and thermal.  I've seen videos where they can see 200yds in one direction but only 100 in another direction because of rain/humidity/fog.  Wet animals are harder to see on thermal in these environments.

Get a space blanket, see how you can use it to hide things from thermal.

And of course, WINDOWS ARE EFFECTIVE CONCEALMENT FOR THERMAL.  If you are in a SHTF situation you better not be relying on thermal scanning alone.

Out of curiosity do you plan to get a helmet mount for your M300W or are you just going to use it mounted on a weapon?  It would be funny to run pvs14 on one eye and thermal on the other.  Might be cheaper to get one of those coti thermal units the NVG thread is going nuts over strapped on to a pvs14.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 4:34:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KoreyKirsch:
I will add, don't be freaked out the first time you use it, and you realize your vision is temporarily impacted in that eye. Eventually, you won't even notice, but it can be kind of freaky the first time.
View Quote
We call that the stank eye
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 5:30:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SnazSleepWalker:
My second purchase from TNVC, and goddamn was my PVS14 a gateway drug.
IR Patrol m300W weapon kit is ordered.  
I mostly wanted a scanner for hunting and for nightly training and patrolling, but for the extra money, to have the ability to clip-on or use it as standalone scope seemed a no-brainer.
I am usually in fairly dense forest, which I know will present a challenge to a thermal device, as it does to I2.  But in a SHTF scenario there are many suburbs and urban areas nearby.

This is my first foray into thermal.  Teach me something about it.  
How much brush is conceivable to detect through?
What conditions are ideal?  
In what situations does thermal really give me an edge over other skills and technologies?
I know you can't see through glass, but are there other oddities to know about?
Lastly, do I need any accessories for the Patrol(fuck I hope not)

Thanks all, much appreciated.
View Quote


Walk around with it during the day and at night. Remember you are seeing heat...not light. Fun weirdness...black trashbags are transparent.
 You can see nails in studs and siding of stick built houses at night on a cold night. With practice you can tell how long a car has been sitting.
Watch a car drive up...note the tires and brakes...and how long the engine glows. Look at chairs, beds, shoes you just took off. You will be
amazed how you can see the heat left behind. Put your hand on a window for 10 seconds and enjoy how long the IR print lasts!
Trees are alive, they are warm. So are insects. You can see the heat of an animal shine through brush...and track it. Concrete floors are reflective
and look polished at heat frequencies. Look at a squirrel on a cold night...it looks exactly like a rat!

 Take your shoes off and walk backwards and laugh at the footprints! Great on hardwood floors. Windows are heat mirrors. You can see wires in the walls
that are under a good load...look at your breaker panel and see which circuits draw the most power. You can see air leaks around doors and windows
easily when it gets cold. You can see hidden roof leaks and other damage too. Go nuts. A good thermal is useful for much more than hunting.
I use a FLIR LS-XR. Welcome to epic dude!
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 5:59:59 PM EDT
As far as an edge goes...camo won't save you from thermal. Ideal for detecting ambushes. Good camo beats NVG but
thermal...not so much. It sees through smoke well too. Fog is another matter. Remember you are seeing heat so the body
is the emitter...it is shining. Dense woods are a good place to use alert features if your scope has them. I strongly recommend
bringing a pal and see how well he can surprise you...or not. During the day with lots of sun thermal blows. The sun heats up
everything and contrast goes away. That what good binos are for! Winter, cold and crisp, is optimum for thermal use. Best range
and contrast by far. Summer...not so much...heavy rain...poor.
Practice using it. Giant upside is you can train with it regardless of light level...it is not fragile like a image intensifier tube is.
  Cold and dry conditions at night will freak you out. You will see every critter from songbirds roosting to bears. Possums are
comical too.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 7:11:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2020 7:16:50 PM EDT by UtopiaTexas]
Thermal is the best option for detection even in the worst of conditions. The picture shows two squirrels in two trees at 115 yards after raining all day. Note that the trees in the background are all washed out since they are the same temperature but the squirrels stand out just fine.

Link Posted: 10/16/2020 8:00:47 PM EDT
I bought my magnifier (Torrey Pines Logic - now under a different name but top notch) from Kathleen at P&R Infrared in Beaverton, OR. PRInfrared dot com
I am local to them, her prices often beat all others, and she will order what I want.
BTW, the magnifier I bought was intended for EOTech X320 and fits the MW300 perfectly.

Bought other items from TNVC and UNV and the others, and I am sure they can get magnifiers as well.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 8:24:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SnazSleepWalker:
My second purchase from TNVC, and goddamn was my PVS14 a gateway drug.
IR Patrol m300W weapon kit is ordered.  
I mostly wanted a scanner for hunting and for nightly training and patrolling, but for the extra money, to have the ability to clip-on or use it as standalone scope seemed a no-brainer.
I am usually in fairly dense forest, which I know will present a challenge to a thermal device, as it does to I2.  But in a SHTF scenario there are many suburbs and urban areas nearby.

This is my first foray into thermal.  Teach me something about it.  
How much brush is conceivable to detect through?
What conditions are ideal?  
In what situations does thermal really give me an edge over other skills and technologies?
I know you can't see through glass, but are there other oddities to know about?
Lastly, do I need any accessories for the Patrol(fuck I hope not)

Thanks all, much appreciated.
View Quote


My understanding was that newer M300W’s don’t have the clip-on capability anymore. Please keep us updated if that is true.
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 7:23:24 AM EDT
Thank you all, helpful stuff so far.
I appreciate the external battery recommendation.
I definitely do want a magnifier, but given the range I'll usually be using this, and the obscene price tag of the magnifiers, I gotta wait for now.
I was thinking of attempting to side by side the Patrol with my PVS14, but that's at the bottom of my list for now.  After I've used it a bit I might do the research into helmet mounting and determine if it makes sense to SxS it with my I2.  Otherwise Ill lanyard it around my neck most of the time.
As for clip on capability, the M300W is heavily advertised as being clip-on capable. This is from TNVC's page:
'The IR Patrol M300W is a Weapon-Mounted Thermal Monocular Scope. It is capable of being used as a standalone scope with internal digital reticle or in a clip-on capacity in front of low magnification weapon optics.'
So I hope it works!  I am willing to accept some POI shift and fudginess, as I am shooting under 200 yards the vast majority of the time.
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 9:24:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SnazSleepWalker:
Thank you all, helpful stuff so far.
I appreciate the external battery recommendation.
I definitely do want a magnifier, but given the range I'll usually be using this, and the obscene price tag of the magnifiers, I gotta wait for now.
I was thinking of attempting to side by side the Patrol with my PVS14, but that's at the bottom of my list for now.  After I've used it a bit I might do the research into helmet mounting and determine if it makes sense to SxS it with my I2.  Otherwise Ill lanyard it around my neck most of the time.
As for clip on capability, the M300W is heavily advertised as being clip-on capable. This is from TNVC's page:
'The IR Patrol M300W is a Weapon-Mounted Thermal Monocular Scope. It is capable of being used as a standalone scope with internal digital reticle or in a clip-on capacity in front of low magnification weapon optics.'
So I hope it works!  I am willing to accept some POI shift and fudginess, as I am shooting under 200 yards the vast majority of the time.
View Quote


I asked TNVC and they acknowledged that their listing was outdated. Perhaps they have NOS that doesn’t have the firmware update that deleted the clip-on functionality. I’d be very interested in the M300W if it still had the clip on capability, so I hope I’m wrong. Maybe TNVC can chime in to clear things up.
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 12:10:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RRAR15:
I asked TNVC and they acknowledged that their listing was outdated. Maybe TNVC can chime in to clear things up.
View Quote


I hope that's not the case, if true, it would have been nice to have been told that during my communication with them.

I'm more excited about looking at the inefficiencies of my home than I thought I would be. I'm pretty young, hoping that maybe over the course of my life the thermal will pay itself off in detecting home issues
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