Talk to me about this. I’ve always been mostly a karambit guy but recently been reading a lot more from Craig Douglas and seeing the popularity of this style of blade from “been there done that” types, and what I’m understanding is making a lot of sense. The combination of gross motor skills, simple employment tactics, and devastating effectiveness is extremely appealing.

So, who has them? Who trains with them? How many people EDC one? Please feel free to post pictures of your blade of choice as well

Of all the knife fights I have been in and seen, none of them have been decided based on edge cuts.  I would recommend a knife you can stab with.

The first time I got jumped the dude had a shank, looked like it was made from a letter opener or something.  He swung right for my head at full extension and I reflectively put my left hand out to stiffarm the blow.  Well I caught the knife on the tip and it went handle deep.  I still have very low temperature sensitivity in my left hand and my ring and little finger are at about 80% function over a decade later.

I got sliced up about a dozen times in one fight when I was a teen (I thought it was a fist fight, boy was I wrong). My sweatshirt was shredded almost instantly; fortunately none of the cuts made it past my ribs and the wounds were superficial.

Now I work in a jail and I have seen several shanks made by our resident craftsmen.  They are all made for stabbing, simpler design, simpler deployment and easier to use in an ambush or a grapple.  Damn near every knife fight ends up in a wrestling match, so bring the type of knife you want to wrestle with.

ETA:


These are the knives I actually use, I have at least one of them on me when I leave the house.

Top to bottom:
ESEE Izula II 2.63" blade for when I need a small fixed knife.
SOG Flash II Tanto 3.5" blade for when I need a folder
Buck 192 Vanguard 4.125" blade, it is about halfway between a skinner and a fighter.
SOG Seal Pup 4.75" blade mostly for utility

Also I would totally buy the Shivworks Clinch pick as it is very similar to the Izula II in size and based on profile it would probably be a better fighting knife.

Ive trained with Craig Douglas a couple times. For in fight access and inside the scope of the design for that blade its a pretty reasonable design. Considering that its a last ditch weapon thats designed around getting out of a clench... it is what it is.

I carry one most days in uniform, considering a gun is no no.

That’s quite a nice set of blades Magickaldood!

From my understanding of watching and reading Craig Douglas’ material it does seem he heavily emphasizes stabbing and poking over slashing techniques. What really interests me is his description of an edge-in blade’s ability to “shear” or rip at an opponent when withdrawing the knife, using gross motor skills and the much more powerful muscles in your back and hips to filet arms and cause massive physical and psychological trauma. That particular ideology makes a LOT of sense to me from the perspective of defense with a blade, and would likely be very quickly effective in motivating an attacker to break contact.

What I’d like to do is either find or have made a small fixed blade that combines everything I love about karambits (ergonomic handle, finger ring for superb retention and control, ability to slash at arm’s length from the opponent, etc) with a blade shape that lends itself well to Douglas’ methods of poking, stabbing, shearing, and ripping from the clinch. Something like this, but with an index finger ring (note it’s a double-edged blade, which would be necessary for the range of capabilities I’m wanting);



Such a knife with that combination of features and capabilities would likely finally convince me to replace the folding karambit in my EDC with an easily accessible fixed blade in a sheath...

https://flagrantbeard.com/shopping/knives/flagrant-havoc/

I know this isn’t double edge, but may be worth a shot.

Also, check out the JB Sakit. I find the ring unnecessary and a liability.

Appreciate the input from everyone, but I ended up finding Ironside Edgeworks out of South Africa who specializes in pikal combative knives;

https://ironsideedgeworks.com/

I’m working with him on a one-off custom blade with exactly the features I’ve been looking for. Will post updates here when I have more

Excellent choice!

I’m confident in his ability to deliver what I’m looking for. I started a new thread about the design and ordering process if you’re interested in following;

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Ironside-Edgeworks-Mestiso-Hybrid-Karambit-Pikal-Combative-Knife-and-Buyer-s-Review/4-501771/

While I have a significant appreciation for the pikal-designs, I ironically don't own any!  What I do like is the reverse grip use of a defensive blade.  I routinely carry a small fixed blade for weak-hand access.  While it's less about using a knife in a fight and more about having a weak-side weapon if my primary defensive tool, a handgun, is pinned, injured arm, or otherwise occupied.  My purpose of such a knife is simply as a backup to assist in creating space.  What I found I needed in a blade is something that I can use effectively at close distance.  I have and carry "punch knives" as well and find them even more effective in the closer confines of a vehicle-type setting, but I've had to completely avoid any knife techniques that require wider arm movements.  What's nice, just like punch knives, with the reverse grip is you can draw it in a pretty tight space, use your arm to protect your body and still punch/stab with power in very little space.

I love your concept knife.  I was hesitant about the rings on knives, but after using and carry a few over the past few years, they've proven quite serviceable.  The biggest benefit, especially with your weak-hand, is with indexing your blade.  Trying to rapidly draw your blade from various positions under stress is no different than a handgun.  The ring allows own to quickly index the knife handle with more basic gross motor skills.

I've recently went back to some less expensive knives for EDC; both from CRKT.  So far, they seem like well made knives for the price and with very versatile carry systems which is important for both concealment, security, and fast access:



Looking forward to your review once you ring-fingered pikal is delivered!

ROCK6

I carry and train with them. I haven't trained with Craig, but I'm patched in Libre Knife Fighting systems and I have trained with Ed Calderon of Ed's Manifesto. Train with wait you carry. Edge in is great for close quarters and retention. The seminar I did with Ed included one of his organic medium labs. Small blades are lethal up close.

From top top to bottom:
JB Knife and Tool ditch pick
JB Knife and Tool ditch sakit and trainer
JB Knife and Tool  Batwing
Ironside Edgeworks Diavel
Ban Tang fruit Knife (wrapper handle)
JB Knife and Tool Pik
Sosby Cub

Those are some great blades! I agree, the thing I like most about ring-handled knives is the ease and speed with which you can index and draw the blade. I don’t use them for any fancy/flashy spinning or flipping tricks, just to help draw the knife and index it as consistently as possible along with retention during use. I’ve also found as long as the inner diameter of the finger ring isn’t too small, the risk of injury is significantly diminished as it’s very easy to slip your finger out of the ring whenever you might need to. For my smallish-medium hand size, rings with an inner diameter of exactly one inch seem to be the perfect size

Beautiful collection as well, I’m familiar with all those makers - You have very good taste in your defensive blades

I’ve been reading and watching a lot about the Libre system from Scott Babb as well, and it also makes a lot of sense. I strongly believe the concept I’ve commissioned will have a combination of features and capabilities that will lend itself equally well to the systems developed by Craig Douglas, Scott Babb, Ed Calderon, as well as more traditionally Karambit-oriented systems like the curriculums of Steve Tarani, Doug Marcaida, and even Michael Janich’s Filipino Martial Arts-derived Martial Blade Concepts.

The design is truly intended to be well suited towards any knife fighting system with roots in FMA

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Thanks! I've known Brian at JB Knife and Tool for 20 years. I was able to attend Ed Calderon's Organic Medium and Improvised weapons seminar last month that Brian hosted. My Libre instructor has a bigger background in traditional FMA than I do, and he is a fan of Janichs stuff as welll.

I’d love to be able to attend one of Ed’s OME classes once I have the completed blade in hand to see what it’s really capable of. At the very least though I’ll be doing some of my own cut tests on some slabs of pork and beef at home.

In addition to the live blade I’m having Gavin make an accompanying dull trainer version at the same time so I can properly and safely practice techniques. It’s my absolute intention to add the Mestiso to my EDC as the backup to my CCW pistol, and making sure I’m familiar with it in a safe manner is very important to me in that regard.

I’ve spent so long reading/watching/studying the curriculums offered by Craig Douglas, Michael Janich, Scott Babb, Doug Marcaida, Ed Calderon, and Steve Tarani, and they all seemed to make so much sense I wasn’t sure which system to commit myself to practicing. Then I realized with a properly designed blade I could study them all and apply the tactics, techniques, and concepts from any one of their systems depending on the defensive scenario - all while utilizing one universal tool. That’s when the idea for the Mestiso was born

You hit the nail on the head. Like Scott said, the knife is not the weapon. I think it awesome that you are getting a trainer made with your new Ironside Edgeworks custom. Craig is on my short list of people to spend time on the mat with. Next year I hope to be able to train with Scott at some point , and with Lee Morrison of Urban Combatives. My Libre instructor's fiance just became an official study group leader. I think she is only one of two women to be designated as such. I've dabbled in a bunch of arts over the years, but Libre and UC are what I am currently doing.

I view having an identical training blade that closely duplicates the feel and features of your live carried knife is of the same importance as dryfire/snapcap practice with your CCW firearm. Not only will the Mestiso trainer have the same overall profile, it will have the full Tsukamaki wrapped handle to get as close as possible to the same overall feel of the equivalent live blade (less some of the pricier exotic materials like carbon fiber and rayskin). Even the duplicate trainers that Gavin makes are aesthetically and structurally stunning;

https://www.instagram.com/p/Byp5hP4Hr8p/?igshid=ab6x2ulr4br7

I haven’t previously been familiar with Lee Morrison or Urban Combatives, but I’ll add it to my list to study. Is UC a derivative of Libre, or...?

UC is its own entity, but Lee and Scott are pretty tight. Lee has taken a liking to Libre and has even put out some videos of him working techniques. A lot of Libre guys also train in UC. It's mostly empty hand techniques, so it pairs well with Libre. Scott and Lee occasionally do joint seminars together. They do a big one annually in the Philippines. Big groups of both UC and Libre groups there. I just started UC training in the last month or so. It's all about mindset. I like everything I've seen so far.

Bantang Fruit Knife (top)
Bantang Evio Shiv

A few JBs and Ban tangs are on my short list...

Particularly

JB
Ditch Sakit RE w/ Trainer
G10 Sakit
Pik with sharpened reverse edge/partial belly

BT
Recurve Pikal
Bowie