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Posted: 12/26/2018 8:27:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Folks talking about warranty support. You know, if you buy a class-3b U.S.-made laser, even if you buy it legally, it won't have a warranty either since the manufacturers won't support private owners.
Just saying. If you don't want to pay for an A4 or MAWL (or D2 for non-tactical), this is probably the best you're gonna get besides a used PEQ-15, PEQ-2/2A, or DBAL-A2 (PEQ-15A), or the rare class-3b DBAL-I2. Of which, buy from a reputable source or it could be stolen goods. If you want a warranty, the D2, A4, or MAWL are the best ticket. Ivan may support his customers, and I genuinely hope he does and I truly want these to be a great success, but good luck if he doesn't. I hope I don't sound to negative. Just trying to be realistic. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 8:53:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Folks talking about warranty support. You know, if you buy a class-3b U.S.-made laser, even if you buy it legally, it won't have a warranty either since the manufacturers won't support private owners. Just saying. If you don't want to pay for an A4 or MAWL (or D2 for non-tactical), this is probably the best you're gonna get besides a used PEQ-15, PEQ-2/2A, or DBAL-A2 (PEQ-15A), or the rare class-3b DBAL-I2. Of which, buy from a reputable source or it could be stolen goods. If you want a warranty, the D2, A4, or MAWL are the best ticket. Ivan may support his customers, and I genuinely hope he does and I truly want these to be a great success, but good luck if he doesn't. I hope I don't sound to negative. Just trying to be realistic. That said, how do you expect to be able to take advantage of warranty? Once they're state-side, you can't re-export them without running afoul of ITAR. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 10:35:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In theory, since they aren't US made, you shouldn't run into the issue you do with class-iii units. That said, how do you expect to be able to take advantage of warranty? Once they're state-side, you can't re-export them without running afoul of ITAR. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 10:42:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not a US product, would itar even apply? Zenitco doesn't show up on the EAR list or CSS search. You'd have to write Customs to get a real opinion. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 11:17:16 PM EDT
[#5]
In all honesty for the price that it is I wouldn’t bother with a warranty and risking losing it in the mail.
If you want good product support, don’t order something from Russia. Get something from a reputable US manufacturer. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 11:32:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn that Perst-1 looks like a steal if you just want a stand alone powerful IR laser. How big is the dot on these? Wouldnt be so good if the dot is 3 yards across at 100 yards....  I would guess 4 MOA maybe? I've only looked at mine a couple times, haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet. It's plenty small enough for shooting out to 2-300 yards, I'd say. I haven't pointed it at anything further than that. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 11:34:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it had a US designed anything in it, then it would need an exemption. Zenitco doesn't show up on the EAR list or CSS search. You'd have to write Customs to get a real opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It's not a US product, would itar even apply? Zenitco doesn't show up on the EAR list or CSS search. You'd have to write Customs to get a real opinion. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 11:58:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In all honesty for the price that it is I wouldn't bother with a warranty and risking losing it in the mail. If you want good product support, don't order something from Russia. Get something from a reputable US manufacturer. |
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Posted: 12/26/2018 11:59:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@2JokersWild I would guess 4 MOA maybe? I've only looked at mine a couple times, haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet. It's plenty small enough for shooting out to 2-300 yards, I'd say. I haven't pointed it at anything further than that. |
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Posted: 12/27/2018 12:05:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In theory, since they aren't US made, you shouldn't run into the issue you do with class-iii units. That said, how do you expect to be able to take advantage of warranty? Once they're state-side, you can't re-export them without running afoul of ITAR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Folks talking about warranty support. You know, if you buy a class-3b U.S.-made laser, even if you buy it legally, it won't have a warranty either since the manufacturers won't support private owners. Just saying. If you don't want to pay for an A4 or MAWL (or D2 for non-tactical), this is probably the best you're gonna get besides a used PEQ-15, PEQ-2/2A, or DBAL-A2 (PEQ-15A), or the rare class-3b DBAL-I2. Of which, buy from a reputable source or it could be stolen goods. If you want a warranty, the D2, A4, or MAWL are the best ticket. Ivan may support his customers, and I genuinely hope he does and I truly want these to be a great success, but good luck if he doesn't. I hope I don't sound to negative. Just trying to be realistic. That said, how do you expect to be able to take advantage of warranty? Once they're state-side, you can't re-export them without running afoul of ITAR. |
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Posted: 12/27/2018 12:38:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah 4 MOA is definitely usable. Thanks! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@2JokersWild I would guess 4 MOA maybe? I've only looked at mine a couple times, haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet. It's plenty small enough for shooting out to 2-300 yards, I'd say. I haven't pointed it at anything further than that.
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Posted: 12/27/2018 12:42:02 AM EDT
[#12]
 Attached FileAlso, this fucking switch is goddamn huge.  I'm not sure yet how I'm gonna lay this thing out...
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Posted: 12/27/2018 1:19:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Just throwing this here:
My buddy and I each have one of these. They are pretty awesome. Adjustable power for visible laser, IR laser, and IR illuminator. On high power the IR laser and illuminators are absolute flamethrowers. It's like having an invisible light saber. On low power and with the diffuser cap installed it works great indoors. The quality is good but not perfect. You can see that there is a lot of handwork involved with assembling these. They are built like a tank, and because of this they are heavy. Overall I'm very happy with the purchase, and would recommend these. Just be careful because they are NOT eye safe and you can easily damage your eyes or night vision. It's not just about having good muzzle discipline because you also need to account for reflections. |
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Posted: 12/27/2018 5:56:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Usually I'd say fuck the LIF, but...
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Posted: 12/28/2018 10:44:58 AM EDT
[#15]
Here's the other one:
Running a Surefire M600DF on an Arisaka inline scout mount. There's not enough clearance for an offset scout mount, but I think this looks pretty good. The nice thing about these units is that they have an integrated pic rail mount, so they sit pretty low on the rail. Compared to my Steiner OTAL these sit about 3/8" lower (estimating, haven't actually measured). EDIT: Anyone know why my picture is showing up as a link? I used the "img" tags... |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 11:47:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EDIT: Anyone know why my picture is showing up as a link? I used the "img" tags... Sits nice and low on the rail. I like that |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 11:47:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need 50 posts to show pics. I hit approve on them. |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 5:42:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, I screwed it up again editing my post. Sorry :( |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 6:53:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No worries, I can see it just fine. Thanks for providing good content! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ah, I screwed it up again editing my post. Sorry :( I’m trying not to spend the $$ I have in hand, otherwise I’d be a buyer today (I’m saving toward DUALS). |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 9:50:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In all honesty for the price that it is I wouldn’t bother with a warranty and risking losing it in the mail. If you want good product support, don’t order something from Russia. Get something from a reputable US manufacturer. That's the big reason I posted this thread, to explore other options. |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 10:02:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is there's no good civilian IR lasers out there. The MAWL is the closest to it, and it has issues that an item that expensive shouldn't have. That's the big reason I posted this thread, to explore other options. |
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Posted: 12/28/2018 10:19:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Known issues with the MAWL? Please let us all know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The problem is there's no good civilian IR lasers out there. The MAWL is the closest to it, and it has issues that an item that expensive shouldn't have. That's the big reason I posted this thread, to explore other options. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 2:39:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1. What issues? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: The problem is there's no good civilian IR lasers out there. The MAWL is the closest to it, and it has issues that an item that expensive shouldn't have. That's the big reason I posted this thread, to explore other options.
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Posted: 12/29/2018 10:40:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1. What issues? |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 10:38:57 PM EDT
[#25]
The need to spend $460 bucks for a threaded endcap (if you've already bought it, or spend 2 or 300 more when you buy it initially), BE Meyer's customer service (see above, they put out a faulty product then instead of making it right, expect you to spend nearly $500 to have a usable unit), and the plastic selector switch mounted in plastic are the biggest issues, coming from guys I know that own several of them and use them in duty capacities.
They're no doubt the "best" on the civilian market currently, but I'm reluctant to spend that much money on a product that has such problems. With C1 lasers you're more paying for what kind of bullshit you're willing to deal with than what is really the best, it still looks like sucking it up and buying a MAWL is the best option for a really good performing unit, honestly. To be fair, I've only heard rumors of the selector switch breaking off, so that may not be a real concern. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 11:03:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The need to spend $460 bucks for a threaded endcap (if you've already bought it, or spend 2 or 300 more when you buy it initially), BE Meyer's customer service (see above, they put out a faulty product then instead of making it right, expect you to spend nearly $500 to have a usable unit), and the plastic selector switch mounted in plastic are the biggest issues, coming from guys I know that own several of them and use them in duty capacities. They're no doubt the "best" on the civilian market currently, but I'm reluctant to spend that much money on a product that has such problems. With C1 lasers you're more paying for what kind of bullshit you're willing to deal with than what is really the best, it still looks like sucking it up and buying a MAWL is the best option for a really good performing unit, honestly. To be fair, I've only heard rumors of the selector switch breaking off, so that may not be a real concern. |
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Posted: 12/29/2018 11:10:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@brodband8 have you heard of these issues? I know you k ow pretty much everything about them.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The need to spend $460 bucks for a threaded endcap (if you've already bought it, or spend 2 or 300 more when you buy it initially), BE Meyer's customer service (see above, they put out a faulty product then instead of making it right, expect you to spend nearly $500 to have a usable unit), and the plastic selector switch mounted in plastic are the biggest issues, coming from guys I know that own several of them and use them in duty capacities. They're no doubt the "best" on the civilian market currently, but I'm reluctant to spend that much money on a product that has such problems. With C1 lasers you're more paying for what kind of bullshit you're willing to deal with than what is really the best, it still looks like sucking it up and buying a MAWL is the best option for a really good performing unit, honestly. To be fair, I've only heard rumors of the selector switch breaking off, so that may not be a real concern. As for the threaded endcap, yeah it is kind of expensive, and offers additional pressure switch ports which I have really never found a need for and get in the way of things more than anything. The only good thing that comes from that end cap is the ability to be able to swap batteries on the fly without tools and not have to worry about potentially losing zero on the unit, (even though its a non issue if you just mark your screws with paint pen beforehand and return to their original locations.) Also, I didn't feel the sting of the $460 as I paid the upgrade charge of $100 to get a unit with the new style endcap instead of buying it separately. Can you send me a source for the broken switch claims? I'm genuinely interested to find out more about that. |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 1:16:11 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The need to spend $460 bucks for a threaded endcap (if you've already bought it, or spend 2 or 300 more when you buy it initially), BE Meyer's customer service (see above, they put out a faulty product then instead of making it right, expect you to spend nearly $500 to have a usable unit), and the plastic selector switch mounted in plastic are the biggest issues, coming from guys I know that own several of them and use them in duty capacities. They're no doubt the "best" on the civilian market currently, but I'm reluctant to spend that much money on a product that has such problems. With C1 lasers you're more paying for what kind of bullshit you're willing to deal with than what is really the best, it still looks like sucking it up and buying a MAWL is the best option for a really good performing unit, honestly. To be fair, I've only heard rumors of the selector switch breaking off, so that may not be a real concern. Two way range? Professionals. Yes. Absolutely. The MAWL (or a4 v2) |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 10:06:31 AM EDT
[#29]
You guys with the perst-3. how true is the co-aligned visible laser? Can you confirm they are "trued up"?
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Posted: 12/30/2018 10:35:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys with the perst-3. how true is the co-aligned visible laser? Can you confirm they are "trued up"? EDIT: Well, I'm a little disappointed to report the visible laser is off of the IR laser by about 1/4" at 20 feet. That equates to 3.75" at 100 yards if my math is correct. Oh well, I don't expect to be using the visible laser at long range anyway. Edit again: Actually, I think thats normal. The visible and IR lasers are about 1/4" apart to begin with. So presumably they will be 1/4" apart at every distance. Crisis averted I guess? Just played around with this again in the backyard. I must say, this thing works great! The illuminator really punches through the darkness. I'm gonna try to get some beam shots tonight. |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 9:04:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not seen this firsthand with the selector switch so I can't speak for that unfortunately. We did use the mawl for the Geissele drop test twice and it seemed to hold up fine. As for the threaded endcap, yeah it is kind of expensive, and offers additional pressure switch ports which I have really never found a need for and get in the way of things more than anything. The only good thing that comes from that end cap is the ability to be able to swap batteries on the fly without tools and not have to worry about potentially losing zero on the unit, (even though its a non issue if you just mark your screws with paint pen beforehand and return to their original locations.) Also, I didn't feel the sting of the $460 as I paid the upgrade charge of $100 to get a unit with the new style endcap instead of buying it separately. Can you send me a source for the broken switch claims? I'm genuinely interested to find out more about that. And regarding “best,” I should specify best performing, not necessarily best bang for the buck. |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 9:24:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm gonna try to get some beam shots tonight. |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 9:59:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Excellent. Very interested in seeing the pics and hearing your thoughts. Don't suppose you could compare it to an unrestricted PEQ15 (either side by side or from memory)? Either way, I’m sure the beamshots will be helpful. |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 10:34:47 PM EDT
[#34]
So I got some beamshots. Let me start by saying, I really considered not posting this because the photos look nothing like what I saw through the tube. I just couldn't get the phone to adjust well to the lighting conditions. But, I'll post them anyway and just make some notes about what I saw.
Tonight was VERY dark, no moon whatsoever although the sky was clear. Trees are 80 yards away. First pic is IR laser only, on low: 
Next is IR laser only, medium: 
Next is IR laser only, high (bloom was not quite as bad in person): 
Next is illuminator only, medium. Not sure what it doesn't look round in this pic, in person its perfectly circular. Also, the phone makes it look washed out. But in person everything inside that circle is perfectly crisp and bright: 
In an attempt to recreate what my eye was seeing, I zoomed in with my phone and adjusted the brightness until it didn't appear washed out. Problem is, now its pixelated from my phone's poor resolution. Also, I turned the laser on one notch above low: 
Here is basically the same thing as above, but with the laser on high: 
Again, these image look like absolute garbage compared to what I saw. I don't think my iPhone 6 is really suitable for taking these pictures. Something with higher resolution and adjustable iris would do a much better job. |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 11:04:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Also FYI I'm using the terms "low, medium and high" pretty loosely. The lasers and illuminator have 5 different levels of intensity. I'm calling position 1 low, positions 2-4 are medium, and position 5 is high.
The cool thing is you can adjust all of the levels independently. The way you do it is a little weird, but it's effective. When you are on IR laser + illuminator, the adjustment only affects the illuminator intensity. The laser stays the same. If you want to change the laser intensity, you have to switch to IR laser only, make your adjustment, and then switch back to laser + illum. This may seem weird, but I actually like it. When I'm running them together, I typically don't want to increase the laser intensity anyway. I like running the laser one notch above low under all conditions (indoors and out), and only adjust the illuminator power as needed. If there is ever a time when I'm running laser + illum and for some reason I want to crank the laser, it's not a big deal to switch to the laser only and make my adjustment. Whatever settings you use on each position, the unit remembers them as you switch back and forth and cycle the unit on and off. |
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Posted: 12/30/2018 11:54:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Very interesting, I am definitely going to have to pick one up, the photos look good to my unexperienced eye. Thanks for doing that!
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Posted: 12/31/2018 12:31:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also FYI I'm using the terms "low, medium and high" pretty loosely. The lasers and illuminator have 5 different levels of intensity. I'm calling position 1 low, positions 2-4 are medium, and position 5 is high. The cool thing is you can adjust all of the levels independently. The way you do it is a little weird, but it's effective. When you are on IR laser + illuminator, the adjustment only affects the illuminator intensity. The laser stays the same. If you want to change the laser intensity, you have to switch to IR laser only, make your adjustment, and then switch back to laser + illum. This may seem weird, but I actually like it. When I'm running them together, I typically don't want to increase the laser intensity anyway. I like running the laser one notch above low under all conditions (indoors and out), and only adjust the illuminator power as needed. If there is ever a time when I'm running laser + illum and for some reason I want to crank the laser, it's not a big deal to switch to the laser only and make my adjustment. Whatever settings you use on each position, the unit remembers them as you switch back and forth and cycle the unit on and off. |
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Posted: 12/31/2018 11:55:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Usually I'd say fuck the LIF, but... |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 9:08:05 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What exactly do you think a LIF would do for you with regards to these lasers? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Usually I'd say fuck the LIF, but... But on a serious note, those look pretty awesome. Would have loved to see an illuminator pic at, say a couple hundred yards. I may have to get one too. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 9:48:37 PM EDT
[#40]
So I just realized on my Perst-1 if I double tap the tape switch it goes into a slow flashing mode. Should be helpful when shooting with someone else. I didn't know since the manual was in Russian
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Posted: 1/2/2019 10:36:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I just realized on my Perst-1 if I double tap the tape switch it goes into a slow flashing mode. Should be helpful when shooting with someone else. I didn't know since the manual was in Russian |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 11:11:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you like it? It looks pretty cool, but I can't figure out from pictures where the laser is emitted from, lol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So I just realized on my Perst-1 if I double tap the tape switch it goes into a slow flashing mode. Should be helpful when shooting with someone else. I didn't know since the manual was in Russian It seems pretty well made but a little clunky. You can tell it's Russian. It just barely sits low enough to mount in front of the front sight and still have a useable picture with irons. I had to switch my red dot to a lower 1/3 mount otherwise it took up too much of the field of vision. Zeroing is kind of a PITA, you need a hex wrench. I just looked through my red dot at something about 300 yards away and adjusted the laser to the same point. For the money I think it's a great deal, as long as it holds zero. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow when I'm packing up to go hunting. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 11:27:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haven't had a chance to shoot with it yet but hoping to this weekend. The laser emits from the lower right corner as you are standing behind it. It seems pretty well made but a little clunky. You can tell it's Russian. It just barely sits low enough to mount in front of the front sight and still have a useable picture with irons. I had to switch my red dot to a lower 1/3 mount otherwise it took up too much of the field of vision. Zeroing is kind of a PITA, you need a hex wrench. I just looked through my red dot at something about 300 yards away and adjusted the laser to the same point. For the money I think it's a great deal, as long as it holds zero. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow when I'm packing up to go hunting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So I just realized on my Perst-1 if I double tap the tape switch it goes into a slow flashing mode. Should be helpful when shooting with someone else. I didn't know since the manual was in Russian It seems pretty well made but a little clunky. You can tell it's Russian. It just barely sits low enough to mount in front of the front sight and still have a useable picture with irons. I had to switch my red dot to a lower 1/3 mount otherwise it took up too much of the field of vision. Zeroing is kind of a PITA, you need a hex wrench. I just looked through my red dot at something about 300 yards away and adjusted the laser to the same point. For the money I think it's a great deal, as long as it holds zero. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow when I'm packing up to go hunting. The 1.93” mounts were designed (in part) to alleviate this issue. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 9:21:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Yeah most stuff gets in the way of an absolute cowitness mount, so that doesn’t bother me too much. Although it sounds like it has some decent functionality.
It’s tempting to get the 1 over the 4 because of the super low cost. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 10:12:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Check out the ZenitCo 2IKS+ which is an IR laser and IR illuminator (LED type) for $275. Looks like its more of a pistol form factor but I suppose you could use it on a rifle.
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Posted: 1/3/2019 11:03:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check out the ZenitCo 2IKS+ which is an IR laser and IR illuminator (LED type) for $275. Looks like its more of a pistol form factor but I suppose you could use it on a rifle. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 12:15:55 PM EDT
[#47]
HERE is a good thread page with some pics, info and video from Ivan.
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Posted: 1/3/2019 1:18:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HERE is a good thread page with some pics, info and video from Ivan. Also, the training facility looks really cool. |
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Posted: 1/5/2019 12:47:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Known issues with the MAWL? Please let us all know. |
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Posted: 1/21/2019 8:51:57 PM EDT
[#50]
What is the rear circle knob on the back of the pressure switch?
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