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Posted: 9/5/2018 9:35:00 PM EDT
Is there any benefit to the 15 over the Atipal C for shooting 200yds and under? I’m trying to decide between the two units for a clone build, I don’t mind the extra cost of the 15 if it has some added benefit but I’ve heard some people say that it’s really only the illuminator on the 15 that sets it apart, and that in distances 200yds and less it’s pretty much a toss up between the two.

Appreciate any feedback
Link Posted: 9/5/2018 11:25:22 PM EDT
I think 200 might be a bit optimistic for some conditions, but there are other units you might want to consider before a full power PEQ
Link Posted: 9/5/2018 11:31:26 PM EDT
How accurate can you really be with a laser at two hundred plus given the beam spread.
Link Posted: 9/5/2018 11:34:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CTM1:
How accurate can you really be with a laser at two hundred plus given the beam spread.
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I’ve never shot under NV at 200yds, it was just a number thrown out during a forum discussion i had read so i was referring to that
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 12:52:38 AM EDT
The conditions alone to be able to positively identify something that you'd be willing to shoot at 200 yards away under NV would need to be really good, let alone being able to be consistent with a laser at that distance. But in answer to you question, most civilian power lasers aren't going to be very useful at 200 yards in my experience. Realistically shooting at 200 yards with a laser would definitely require a good illuminator.
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 1:51:24 AM EDT
I have the atpial c and it sucks ass. At 50 yards my surefire IR does a better job of giving me a visual. I think it’s great for cqb. I also have a MAWL which is apples and oranges but if you have the extra money, I’d get a MAWL.
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 2:22:41 AM EDT
The higher power is useful for different applications such as punching through lighted areas to illuminate or target threats hiding in dark spaces. The APTIAL-C falls flat on it's face outdoors in an urban setting, but does ok in a very dark environment or indoors. Although having the brightest and most powerful is great trying to sneak up on your OpFor may not be to your advantage vs a low power LAM.
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 6:49:09 AM EDT
Civilian class-1 laser illumination is crap. No way you can illuminate at 200 yards with the ATPIAL-C.

The aiming laser will be fine at that range though.

TNVC lists the aiming laser as 0.5 milliradians, which is roughly 1.7 MOA.

https://tnvc.com/shop/l3-insight-atpial-c-class1-ir-laser/
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 9:30:35 AM EDT
Unless you are using full power units, dont expect over 50 yards of illuminator performance. Sometimes... you can get 60-75 yards in the right conditions and that is barely visible in tbe right conditions. 200 yards requires an LED illuminator, full power laser illuminator, or a MAWL C1
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 10:44:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 10:54:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2018 10:55:19 AM EDT by sbye]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:
I will add that if you go the class 3 route and get an actual PEQ-15 and it breaks you'll essentially have a paperweight and technically youre not supposed to have it as a civilian (as dumb as that rule is)

Just know that.
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@TNVC_Sam
What is the warranty with the ATPIAL-C? I have one and have been curious what the process would be if it broke.
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 11:14:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 2:15:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:
1 year from L3 which is kinda the industry Laser standard.

due to its construction once out of warranty its almost impossible to fix it if it breaks internally
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What changes after 1 year that makes it almost impossible to fix?
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 3:26:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 4:12:40 PM EDT
You want a MAWL or dbal d2. Both of their illuminator beat the full power peq 15
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 9:25:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:

they will replace the unit 99% of the time, there is no way to actually fix it. Its filled with Epoxy resin.
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Is the warranty pretty strict? Ie, breaks two years in, do you see them still take care of people? If not, well then, you’re still stuck with a paperweight.
Link Posted: 9/6/2018 10:40:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Betiobastard:
I have the atpial c and it sucks ass. At 50 yards my surefire IR does a better job of giving me a visual. I think it’s great for cqb. I also have a MAWL which is apples and oranges but if you have the extra money, I’d get a MAWL.
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In a similar vein, comparing the newer M600V IR to the DBAL-A3 illuminator - when the surefire goes on, you can't even tell the DBAL illuminator is there.

200 is pushing it for the M600V though, as well.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 6:52:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By NVjunkie:
You want a MAWL or dbal d2. Both of their illuminator beat the full power peq 15
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Originally Posted By NVjunkie:
You want a MAWL or dbal d2. Both of their illuminator beat the full power peq 15
That's a bit subjective - I have a real PEQ and also a D2, I like the PEQ better - it's definitely brighter and can be focused much tighter. The illum can occasionally have dead spots, if that's the case I just back it off or forward a quarter turn and it's good. Non issue.

Originally Posted By dogesco93:

Is the warranty pretty strict? Ie, breaks two years in, do you see them still take care of people? If not, well then, you’re still stuck with a paperweight.
LOL, thought I was the only one. Ill take my chances.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 7:38:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By CTM1:
How accurate can you really be with a laser at two hundred plus given the beam spread.
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Point targets at 300 to 400 isnt that big a deal, given an illuminator worth a shit.

The castrated Peq15 lookalike isnt worth a shit.

The MAWL will do it, as will issued units in my experience, the PEQ15 and the PEQ15A2.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 7:39:40 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dag34:

What changes after 1 year that makes it almost impossible to fix?
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engineered obsolescence
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 7:40:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By NVjunkie:
You want a MAWL or dbal d2. Both of their illuminator beat the full power peq 15
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Despite what you may have read on the internet, that is incorrect.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 8:15:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ACPjunkie:
Despite what you may have read on the internet, that is incorrect.
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Technically he is correct... To a point. If you set the illuminator size of the full powered peq15 to that of the same size as a mawl c1+ illuminator, the mawl appears slightly brighter/more crisp due to the cleaner illuminator. Once you tighten that illuminator down on the peq and try to reach out with a clip on or something, peq wins by a long shot. Even comparing an la5 to a mawl c1+ with similar sized illuminator I felt the la5s illuminator was only just slightly brighter. All depends on what type of use you are trying to get out of it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 8:17:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2018 8:24:00 AM EDT by brodband8]
Oh and whoever said atpials are epoxy filled is not entirely correct. They are only sealed around the edges and on top of the screw heads. You can get into one without too much difficulty, but I haven't found a way to make it look factory when sealing it back up. I wish I knew how L3 did it lol.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 10:25:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2018 10:26:18 AM EDT by NVjunkie]
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Originally Posted By ACPjunkie:
Despite what you may have read on the internet, that is incorrect.
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That’s not what I’ve read on the internet. That’s my D2 vs the three different full power peq-15’s my buddies gave that I go shooting with at least twice a month.

Now their ir lasers? Yeah, they beat my D2’s ir laser but illuminator? No. No way. Even they admit it.

I mean, unless they have junk or fake peq 15’s(they don’t) or I somehow have a full power D2, which I greatly doubt.....

Trust me, I saw this two weekends ago. In fact every time we go out I bring it up to bust on them. Rest assured the D2 illuminator is brighter.

Not sure why that’s a shock. The civi mawl beats the peq and the D2’s illuminator hangs with the MAWL.

Again, not being a jerk, I’ve got experience with all of these units. Quite frankly, unless you’re a cloner, I have no idea why anyone would get a peq over a MAWL or D2. In fact the MAWL should be what our guys use instead of the peq. Like I’ve always maintained, for civi use factoring price, nothing beats the d2. For out and out performance, the MAWL stomps everything.

*i have no experience with the newest a4 v2.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 1:05:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By NVjunkie:
You want a MAWL or dbal d2. Both of their illuminator beat the full power peq 15
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YEP!
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 6:29:42 PM EDT
You can see the C laser at several hundred yards fine. Where you will notice the difference is the illuminator. If that's worth it and you have access to a non-stolen PEQ-15 have at it (not sure if that's even possible)
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 8:17:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CTM1:
How accurate can you really be with a laser at two hundred plus given the beam spread.
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500+ yds ive been informed...
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 8:29:05 PM EDT
Thanks for the info guys, Peq 15 it is

This will be for clone builds so the MAWL/Dbal is a no go
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 8:40:19 PM EDT
For the guys getting PEQS, where are you finding them? eBay would likely yield a knock on the door from the fact most are probably stolen.

Unless the factory unit warranty’s are honored beyond 1 year, for anyone it’s probably worth the gamble. IMO, the warranty for a 1,000+ item is ridiculously low. I would think 3 would be standard but I suppose not.
Link Posted: 9/7/2018 9:25:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dogesco93:
For the guys getting PEQS, where are you finding them? eBay would likely yield a knock on the door from the fact most are probably stolen.

Unless the factory unit warranty’s are honored beyond 1 year, for anyone it’s probably worth the gamble. IMO, the warranty for a 1,000+ item is ridiculously low. I would think 3 would be standard but I suppose not.
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There is one on Texas Gun Trader right now. I think he’s legit as we were discussing his PERST laser and he sent lots of pics and info.
Link Posted: 9/11/2018 9:36:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:

they will replace the unit 99% of the time, there is no way to actually fix it. Its filled with Epoxy resin.
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Good to know, guess that makes the no warranty on full power units a non issue imo.
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