Passive aiming is more difficult than I realized

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Passive aiming is more difficult than I realized

Posted: 12/18/2021 1:11:17 AM EDT

Local range put on an intro to NVGs course and since I've never had formal training I attended. About 2hrs on NODs, gear, applications etc in the classroom and about 2hrs on the range working under NODs.....

And passive aiming whipped my ass. Shooting with a PVS14 over my left (non-dom) eye and the weapon on my right side. Basic AR with DBAL-D2 and EXPS3, I couldn't get the gun in the right spot to align it all. Double taps, heads up with the laser got real comfy but I definitely need to practice my passive techniques.

Who has suggested viewing for things to practice?

Posted: 12/18/2021 1:28:25 AM EDT

[#1]

Putting your 14 on your dominant eye will help. From there you can consider a riser if it's really that important.

Posted: 12/18/2021 1:38:28 AM EDT

[#2]

Yeah what he said above. Get a 1.93” mount and keep the tube on your dominant eye. It works for me.

Posted: 12/18/2021 1:47:46 AM EDT

[#3]

-14 is on my weak side because I use it in combo with a weapon mounted thermal on hog hunts.

It'd probably be easier to learn with it on my dominant eye, but in the grand scheme I prefer it on my weak side.

Posted: 12/18/2021 1:53:21 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
-14 is on my weak side because I use it in combo with a weapon mounted thermal on hog hunts.

It'd probably be easier to learn with it on my dominant eye, but in the grand scheme I prefer it on my weak side.

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You may want to look at a JArm that can quickly move from one eye to the other such as the Wilcox, ModArmory JArm or look at the Noise Fighter articulating JArm (not sure if it will clear your TWS ocular lens). Passively aiming through a non aided eye is not going to work out well. Depending on your rear BUIS height when folded and what JArm you use you can get away with a 1.7 lower 1/3 cowhitness height sight.

Posted: 12/18/2021 2:10:38 AM EDT

[#5]

NOD is on a DDA, I'll swap it around and try it that way.

Posted: 12/18/2021 2:14:06 AM EDT

[#6]

Passive aiming isn't hard. It's just as natural as normal shooting in my experience.

Passively aiming cross eye on the non dominant eye while keeping the weapon shouldered on the dominant side or switching to shoot non dominant side certainly increases the level of complication.

Even worse if your optic isn't on a high riser.

So what you mean to say is fighting poor gear selection and configuration is harder than you realized.

Posted: 12/18/2021 2:59:04 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Passive aiming isn't hard. It's just as natural as normal shooting in my experience.

Passively aiming cross eye on the non dominant eye while keeping the weapon shouldered on the dominant side or switching to shoot non dominant side certainly increases the level of complication.

Even worse if your optic isn't on a high riser.

So what you mean to say is fighting poor gear selection and configuration is harder than you realized.

View Quote

I came here to say this.

Posted: 12/18/2021 4:00:36 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Putting your 14 on your dominant eye will help. From there you can consider a riser if it's really that important.

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This

Using duals with a T-1 on a unity riser I found passive aiming as intuitive as shooting without NODs. To the point my T1 and PEQ were perfectly overlayed when getting on target.

I haven't tried it with my personal 14, but it's pretty easy to see why it's not as intuitive

Posted: 12/18/2021 6:31:58 AM EDT

[#9]

So to clarify: Were you using a visibly illuminated reticle, seen by your naked right eye, and using the Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) to mind-meld it into your left eye PVS-14 image (which degrades past ~10 yards)....

....or were you trying to crane your head/neck over the stock, to try and see a right shouldered weapon/optic - with a left eye mounted 14?

If the latter - who was the range providing instruction?

Never tried it, but I would think a "shoulder bump" technique would be the only possible option for that scenario?

Posted: 12/18/2021 7:23:00 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
So to clarify: Were you using a visibly illuminated reticle, seen by your naked right eye, and using the Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) to mind-meld it into your left eye PVS-14 image (which degrades past ~10 yards)....

....or were you trying to crane your head/neck over the stock, to try and see a right shouldered weapon/optic - with a left eye mounted 14?

If the latter - who was the range providing instruction?

Never tried it, but I would think a "shoulder bump" technique would be the only possible option for that scenario?

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It was the former, using the BAC method.

Posted: 12/18/2021 7:55:23 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
It was the former, using the BAC method.

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That's not what people mean when they say "passive aiming with nods".

You're supposed to aim through the nod.

Posted: 12/18/2021 8:33:05 AM EDT

[#12]

It is not uncommon to see some difficulty with passive shooting initially. Although nothing really changes between how you shoot in the daytime and with the NVGs on, there can be some challenges with getting comfortable shooting through the NVGs.

Yes, the BAC can work, but like others have mentioned, it's range and accuracy are suspect beyond a certain distance. Everybody else's comments about risers, etc are on point too.

Getting the optic as high as possible (Unity Tactical makes a great mount for the Eotech) will help you acquire the dot easier.

Without the riser, getting the optic a little more away from your goggle will help--moving the optic on the upper receiver (if possible), extending the buttstock.

And then just get the dry reps in. Do it in the daytime without NVGs on--super easy--and then add the NVGs. Just to get familiar with the motion and where everything should be. Then doing it at night with the goggles on.

Posted: 12/18/2021 8:33:25 AM EDT

[#13]

Double tap

Posted: 12/18/2021 8:58:02 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
It is not uncommon to see some difficulty with passive shooting initially. Although nothing really changes between how you shoot in the daytime and with the NVGs on, there can be some challenges with getting comfortable shooting through the NVGs.

Yes, the BAC can work, but like others have mentioned, it's range and accuracy are suspect beyond a certain distance. Everybody else's comments about risers, etc are on point too.

Getting the optic as high as possible (Unity Tactical makes a great mount for the Eotech) will help you acquire the dot easier.

Without the riser, getting the optic a little more away from your goggle will help--moving the optic on the upper receiver (if possible), extending the buttstock.

And then just get the dry reps in. Do it in the daytime without NVGs on--super easy--and then add the NVGs. Just to get familiar with the motion and where everything should be. Then doing it at night with the goggles on.

View Quote

That is certainly part of it, the optic was all the way to the rear of the receiver.

Thanks guys, lot of good info!

Posted: 12/18/2021 9:54:09 AM EDT

[#15]

Can you shoot reasonably well from your left side? That would be "A" solution if you could.

Posted: 12/18/2021 10:32:09 AM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:
Can you shoot reasonably well from your left side? That would be "A" solution if you could.

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I'll be trying that on my next range trip.

Ive had this -14 for about a year, and up until yesterday had only used it for navigation when hunting with the thermal.

Posted: 12/18/2021 10:51:01 AM EDT

[#17]

I initially struggled passively aiming with my MK18/single pvs14 setup and eotech. After getting the Unity Fast Eotech riser and moving the optic further on the rail it was a night and day difference. Even during the day having the eotech on the riser puts it in a more natural position allowing me to see the reticle quicker with no head movement. Its amazing how something as simple as riser makes smacking steel at night simpler and much more fun!

Posted: 12/18/2021 11:00:18 AM EDT

[#18]

Unity mount + dominant eye.

Problems will be solved.

Posted: 12/18/2021 11:54:18 AM EDT

[#19]

The higher mount is almost a must. It's still not ideal but you can even get by with your pvs-14 on your non dominant eye.

Unless you have a specific reason to keep the 14 on your non-dominant eye, I'd try swapping it over.

Also, YMMV but I wouldn't fool with fancy j-arms/mounts that allow you to quickly swap from side to side thinking you will switch on the fly.

Posted: 12/18/2021 12:06:21 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Unity mount + dominant eye.

Problems will be solved.

View Quote

Yup. Only reason not to do this is stubbornness.

Posted: 12/18/2021 1:17:42 PM EDT

[#21]

I have Unity risers for AP Micro and EXPS.

They are the way for passive shooting under NV.

Posted: 12/18/2021 2:57:27 PM EDT

[#22]

I run the 14 on my dominant eye and use a unity riser. I'm a noob and able to hit targets just fine.

Posted: 12/18/2021 3:37:38 PM EDT

[#23]

On my bridged system I run NV on my dominant eye and a TWS.

I don’t know what your specific environment is or your what techniques you’re using in it but in in the last 200+ I’ve killed there have been exactly zero instances where I shot a hog, or attempted to, using a TWS that a -14 on the non dominant eye would have made anything easier.

Opinion, keep the -14 over the eye you can best navigate and use it with across the board. When you’re in position to start killing flip that thing up and get to work.

Posted: 12/18/2021 4:24:33 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Passive aiming isn't hard. It's just as natural as normal shooting in my experience.

Passively aiming cross eye on the non dominant eye while keeping the weapon shouldered on the dominant side or switching to shoot non dominant side certainly increases the level of complication.

Even worse if your optic isn't on a high riser.

So what you mean to say is fighting poor gear selection and configuration is harder than you realized.

View Quote

Agreed.

It’s only difficult if you make it difficult.

Unfortunately I was taught in the military to run a 14 over my non shooting eye, and to use the optic as normal. Basically BAC, letting the pictures merge. It’s inferior for this application.

Consider it a learning experience OP, and move on to the correct way of passive shooting. Good on you for taking the class. Was probably an eye-opener.

I’m surprised non of the instructors in class bothered to talk with you about the issue.

Posted: 12/18/2021 4:53:45 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Putting your 14 on your dominant eye will help. From there you can consider a riser if it's really that important.

View Quote

I use dominant eye and it works well. unity riser master race also. I have the slightly lower xps3 and buddy has the taller exps3 both on risers. I prefer his but mine works. without a riser they suck. I just bang my 14 into the gun trying to get on the optic. also as everyone has said just getting the reps in and finding what works will make things much easier.