User Panel
Posted: 3/14/2023 2:44:17 PM EDT
Fella’s I got to borrow a friends PVS-14 for a week and now I’m shopping stuff. IDK what to do. I can budget up to $10k within 3 months, could go to 12 if it’s really worth it and I feel like waiting another year.
My intended uses are HD, star gazing, night shooting, and hunting coyote out to ~250 yards. My terrain is mostly row crop fields with patches of woods here and there. There’s a dizzying array of options. Do I helmet mount a pvs-14 and have a thermal scope? PVS w/ecoti and aim with lasers or my aimpoint? Are Bino NODS better than 1 eye of NV and 1 thermal? I don’t know the answer to a lot of these questions and I don’t have a lot of time or money to keep trying different things, selling off what I don’t like (taking the hit) and trying again. I’d sure appreciate any insight. |
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[#1]
Personally, I would go with a 14 for now and then see how things pan out. You are talking about a lot of expensive trials and errors to figure out what works for you.
We did a lot of that…at the government’s expense. Related topics: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Help-me-bridge-a-FLIR-monocular-and-a-PVS-14/18-542520/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Stick-with-PVS-14-or-go-Anvis-9/18-542972/ |
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[#2]
Photonis binos and Jerry-C Ecoti would be awesome.
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photonis-Vyper-night-vision-binocular-device-4G-White-Phosphor-Vyper.htm https://www.customnightvision.com/product/infiray-jerry-ce5-clip-on-thermal-imager-with-external-battery/ Robert at JRH gives member discounts too. But then you need a helmet, mount, battery pack, laser... |
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[#3]
I really love my bridged pvs-14/ thermal. Feels like the best of both worlds. True super-power vibes.
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[#4]
Quoted: Fella’s I got to borrow a friends PVS-14 for a week and now I’m shopping stuff. IDK what to do. I can budget up to $10k within 3 months, could go to 12 if it’s really worth it and I feel like waiting another year. My intended uses are HD, star gazing, night shooting, and hunting coyote out to ~250 yards. My terrain is mostly row crop fields with patches of woods here and there. There’s a dizzying array of options. Do I helmet mount a pvs-14 and have a thermal scope? PVS w/ecoti and aim with lasers or my aimpoint? Are Bino NODS better than 1 eye of NV and 1 thermal? I don’t know the answer to a lot of these questions and I don’t have a lot of time or money to keep trying different things, selling off what I don’t like (taking the hit) and trying again. I’d sure appreciate any insight. View Quote For hunting, a PVS-14 (or binos) + thermal scope is probably best. For home defence, binos + COTI wins hands down (do NOT get a hybrid setup for this, speaking as someone who can fuse them reasonably well 1 eye of NV and 1 eye of thermal does not fuse well enough for a dynamic situation such as HD). If you can swing the cash, I would start with a PVS14 + thermal scope. Then later, add a COTI. Then upgrade the PVS14 to a set of binos giving you full capability (maybe throw in a thermal hand scanner for daytime scanning use too). |
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[#5]
Quoted: Photonis binos and Jerry-C Ecoti would be awesome. https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photonis-Vyper-night-vision-binocular-device-4G-White-Phosphor-Vyper.htm https://www.customnightvision.com/product/infiray-jerry-ce5-clip-on-thermal-imager-with-external-battery/ Robert at JRH gives member discounts too. But then you need a helmet, mount, battery pack, laser... View Quote Interesting, I’ve not heard of JRH before and I’ve been looking into this for a couple months now. How reputable are they for repairs/CS? I did stumble on the Jerry-C today, it honestly seems better than an e-coti, but with all the China concerns lately I’m hesitant on that product, even though it seems better and cheaper. |
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[#6]
Quoted: Fella’s I got to borrow a friends PVS-14 for a week and now I’m shopping stuff. IDK what to do. I can budget up to $10k within 3 months, could go to 12 if it’s really worth it and I feel like waiting another year. My intended uses are HD, star gazing, night shooting, and hunting coyote out to ~250 yards. My terrain is mostly row crop fields with patches of woods here and there. There’s a dizzying array of options. Do I helmet mount a pvs-14 and have a thermal scope? PVS w/ecoti and aim with lasers or my aimpoint? Are Bino NODS better than 1 eye of NV and 1 thermal? I don’t know the answer to a lot of these questions and I don’t have a lot of time or money to keep trying different things, selling off what I don’t like (taking the hit) and trying again. I’d sure appreciate any insight. View Quote On the night vision: The majority of folks prefer dual tubes/binos so depending on how deep you got bit, if you're the "buy once cry once" type you may want to consider going that route. Starting with a -14, you will likely want to get another one to bridge, or get binos shortly down the road. We have dual tube systems like the RNVG with L3Harris unfilmed WP tubes for under $10k as well as more expensive systems. Going this route will set you back on a good thermal and/or good laser like a DBAL D2 or MAWL unless you raise your budget. The conservative approach is to start with a PVS-14. Get the best tube you can - L3Harris unfilmed WP. We have PVS-14s with L3Harris unfilmed WP 2376+ FOM with a Limited Lifetime Warranty for $4k. This leaves room for a helmet, mount, laser, thermal, etc. etc. L3 has been killing it for some time and the tubes we se are VERY easy to match down the road. We can repurpose your PVS-14 (if L3 tube & purchased from TNVC) into a bino system to save you some money vs buying a new bino while maintaining the TNVC warranty. We do all of our work ourselves and have a dedicated build team professionally trained (including direct from L3Harris) with the proper tools whose sole job is to build, repair, and maintain night vision systems. On the thermal: The majority of folks will get far more use/utility out of a dedicated thermal than a COTI. Unlike the COTI, you can use the dedicated thermal without nods (including in daylight), and a good quality unit will provide far more DRI (detection, recognition, identification) capability. The role of the COTI/ECOTI is for rapid detection of humans while wearing night vision. This applies to most animals that are notably physically different (that's a horse or a cow or a deer etc) but especially at distance you won't have a great level of ID capability to know if you're looking at a coyote or a dog etc. A dedicated thermal with more magnification will be FAR superior in that regard. If you want to go the COTI/ECOTI route and stick to American here are your options - the legacy COTI (AN/PAS-29A) although discontinued and no longer supported will pop on the used market from time to time (check the EE). We will be releasing the TAD (Thermal Augmentation Device) in Q3/Q4. It is essentially a lower cost commercial version of the ECOTI (AN/PAS-29B) but with the same thermal performance (actual slightly better). The ECOTI is available to order now but it more expensive and has features that only MIL can access & use hence the creation of the TAD per TNVC's request Now, as to which dedicated thermal to choose, this can be another lengthy discussion. @KoreyKirsch |
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[#7]
Quoted: Interesting, I’ve not heard of JRH before and I’ve been looking into this for a couple months now. How reputable are they for repairs/CS? I did stumble on the Jerry-C today, it honestly seems better than an e-coti, but with all the China concerns lately I’m hesitant on that product, even though it seems better and cheaper. View Quote We have been in business over 30 years now (since 1992) and have sold NV since 1993. The Photonis Vyper binos that were mentioned carry a 5 year warranty. Been some recent threads about them from purchasers here as well. We have 3rd Gen PVS14s in stock, ready to ship, with high specification Elbit thin filmed tubes or 20UM Un filmed White phosphor L3 Harris tubes. RNVGs and Katanas in stock ready for immediate shipment with YH grade Elbit WP tubes or 20UM high specification L3 Harris un filmed tubes. Feel free to email or call if you have any questions. |
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[#8]
Quoted: On the night vision: The majority of folks prefer dual tubes/binos so depending on how deep you got bit, if you're the "buy once cry once" type you may want to consider going that route. Starting with a -14, you will likely want to get another one to bridge, or get binos shortly down the road. We have dual tube systems like the RNVG with L3Harris unfilmed WP tubes for under $10k as well as more expensive systems. Going this route will set you back on a good thermal and/or good laser like a DBAL D2 or MAWL unless you raise your budget. The conservative approach is to start with a PVS-14. Get the best tube you can - L3Harris unfilmed WP. We have PVS-14s with L3Harris unfilmed WP 2376+ FOM with a Limited Lifetime Warranty for $4k. This leaves room for a helmet, mount, laser, thermal, etc. etc. L3 has been killing it for some time and the tubes we se are VERY easy to match down the road. We can repurpose your PVS-14 (if L3 tube & purchased from TNVC) into a bino system to save you some money vs buying a new bino while maintaining the TNVC warranty. We do all of our work ourselves and have a dedicated build team professionally trained (including direct from L3Harris) with the proper tools whose sole job is to build, repair, and maintain night vision systems. On the thermal: The majority of folks will get far more use/utility out of a dedicated thermal than a COTI. Unlike the COTI, you can use the dedicated thermal without nods (including in daylight), and a good quality unit will provide far more DRI (detection, recognition, identification) capability. The role of the COTI/ECOTI is for rapid detection of humans while wearing night vision. This applies to most animals that are notably physically different (that's a horse or a cow or a deer etc) but especially at distance you won't have a great level of ID capability to know if you're looking at a coyote or a dog etc. A dedicated thermal with more magnification will be FAR superior in that regard. If you want to go the COTI/ECOTI route and stick to American here are your options - the legacy COTI (AN/PAS-29A) although discontinued and no longer supported will pop on the used market from time to time (check the EE). We will be releasing the TAD (Thermal Augmentation Device) in Q3/Q4. It is essentially a lower cost commercial version of the ECOTI (AN/PAS-29B) but with the same thermal performance (actual slightly better). The ECOTI is available to order now but it more expensive and has features that only MIL can access & use hence the creation of the TAD per TNVC's request Now, as to which dedicated thermal to choose, this can be another lengthy discussion. @KoreyKirsch View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Fella’s I got to borrow a friends PVS-14 for a week and now I’m shopping stuff. IDK what to do. I can budget up to $10k within 3 months, could go to 12 if it’s really worth it and I feel like waiting another year. My intended uses are HD, star gazing, night shooting, and hunting coyote out to ~250 yards. My terrain is mostly row crop fields with patches of woods here and there. There’s a dizzying array of options. Do I helmet mount a pvs-14 and have a thermal scope? PVS w/ecoti and aim with lasers or my aimpoint? Are Bino NODS better than 1 eye of NV and 1 thermal? I don’t know the answer to a lot of these questions and I don’t have a lot of time or money to keep trying different things, selling off what I don’t like (taking the hit) and trying again. I’d sure appreciate any insight. On the night vision: The majority of folks prefer dual tubes/binos so depending on how deep you got bit, if you're the "buy once cry once" type you may want to consider going that route. Starting with a -14, you will likely want to get another one to bridge, or get binos shortly down the road. We have dual tube systems like the RNVG with L3Harris unfilmed WP tubes for under $10k as well as more expensive systems. Going this route will set you back on a good thermal and/or good laser like a DBAL D2 or MAWL unless you raise your budget. The conservative approach is to start with a PVS-14. Get the best tube you can - L3Harris unfilmed WP. We have PVS-14s with L3Harris unfilmed WP 2376+ FOM with a Limited Lifetime Warranty for $4k. This leaves room for a helmet, mount, laser, thermal, etc. etc. L3 has been killing it for some time and the tubes we se are VERY easy to match down the road. We can repurpose your PVS-14 (if L3 tube & purchased from TNVC) into a bino system to save you some money vs buying a new bino while maintaining the TNVC warranty. We do all of our work ourselves and have a dedicated build team professionally trained (including direct from L3Harris) with the proper tools whose sole job is to build, repair, and maintain night vision systems. On the thermal: The majority of folks will get far more use/utility out of a dedicated thermal than a COTI. Unlike the COTI, you can use the dedicated thermal without nods (including in daylight), and a good quality unit will provide far more DRI (detection, recognition, identification) capability. The role of the COTI/ECOTI is for rapid detection of humans while wearing night vision. This applies to most animals that are notably physically different (that's a horse or a cow or a deer etc) but especially at distance you won't have a great level of ID capability to know if you're looking at a coyote or a dog etc. A dedicated thermal with more magnification will be FAR superior in that regard. If you want to go the COTI/ECOTI route and stick to American here are your options - the legacy COTI (AN/PAS-29A) although discontinued and no longer supported will pop on the used market from time to time (check the EE). We will be releasing the TAD (Thermal Augmentation Device) in Q3/Q4. It is essentially a lower cost commercial version of the ECOTI (AN/PAS-29B) but with the same thermal performance (actual slightly better). The ECOTI is available to order now but it more expensive and has features that only MIL can access & use hence the creation of the TAD per TNVC's request Now, as to which dedicated thermal to choose, this can be another lengthy discussion. @KoreyKirsch I am a buy once cry once type of guy, which is why I’m agonizing over this so much. I appreciate all the information, that’s very helpful. |
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[#9]
A good PVS14 and weapon mounted thermal will fit your needs best in my opinion with money left over to get a helmet set up and IR laser/illuminator for your rifle.
For thermals check out Bering Vibe. That’s the best price for performance in my opinion. I have a COTI and can tell you I t is going to be severely lacking for hunting or positively identifying anything inside 50yds. |
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[#10]
Quoted:Now, as to which dedicated thermal to choose, this can be another lengthy discussion. @KoreyKirsch View Quote |
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[#11]
I have RNVGs with docked Harris 11769 tubes. I got the tubes from tlandoe07 a couple years back. I also have a Mod3b with two matching Omni-VII 11769 tubes. I got the Mod3b with the intent to split up and bridge with an iRay MH25. I tried and tried to make it work but just couldn't get there. I traded that off for a Coti to mount to the RNVGs and couldn't be happier!
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[#12]
Quoted: I have RNVGs with docked Harris 11769 tubes. I got the tubes from tlandoe07 a couple years back. I also have a Mod3b with two matching Omni-VII 11769 tubes. I got the Mod3b with the intent to split up and bridge with an iRay MH25. I tried and tried to make it work but just couldn't get there. I traded that off for a Coti to mount to the RNVGs and couldn't be happier! View Quote Do you find the RNVG’s cumbersome to adjust? The housing seems like a good value prop |
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[#13]
Quoted: Thanks Will for including me in the thread. My name is Korey Kirschenmann, and I am a Product Specialist for the "hunting division" of TNVC known as Night Goggles. I am also a die-hard coyote hunter. I have shot 368 coyotes this Fall/Winter using thermal technology averaging over 10 coyotes on every hunt. If you are calling coyotes (vs baiting), you really need 2 thermals. You need a thermal scanner and a thermal weapon's sight. Yes there are other options but if you are serious about it, in the end you will have both. I2 is great for navigating and in some situations can work very good for positive ID of animals of similar size and body characteristics but in most cases thermal wins for hunting animals. I will send you a message with my cell number. Set aside 30-45 minutes, and give me a call and we can dig into your needs such as terrain, type/style of hunting, budget, weapons, etc and find some options for thermal that would work well for you. View Quote That’s a ton of coyotes to kill in 1 year. I’m only looking to keep them from killing my chickens. I think my budget is going to limit me from doing both. I’ve read a lot of mixed reviews about the DBAL, namely not holding zero. Some people get great units, others get trash. To my knowledge the MAWL, at twice the price, doesn’t have any known issues. But that step up sort of forces me into a single PVS-14 and no thermal for the next year or so. I might need more budget. Holy crap this stuff is expensive |
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[#14]
Quoted: Photonis binos and Jerry-C Ecoti would be awesome. https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photonis-Vyper-night-vision-binocular-device-4G-White-Phosphor-Vyper.htm https://www.customnightvision.com/product/infiray-jerry-ce5-clip-on-thermal-imager-with-external-battery/ Robert at JRH gives member discounts too. But then you need a helmet, mount, battery pack, laser... View Quote you'll need about $300-500 more in helmet and mounts, g24 and ops core/Wendy/etc. bump if you can swing it. to start, you can get a Tlr-vir2 for a reasonable amount and that will give you some ir illum and laser that later can be used on a pistol. |
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[#15]
I'd go thin flimed Pvs14 for 2200-3K, and a multi role 384 thermal like the Iray RL25 for3K. get a surefire vampirine scout 6V and any one of the dual laser pointers. could be very well setup with very usable everything and accessories for that 10K
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[#16]
Quoted: Do you find the RNVG’s cumbersome to adjust? The housing seems like a good value prop View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I have RNVGs with docked Harris 11769 tubes. I got the tubes from tlandoe07 a couple years back. I also have a Mod3b with two matching Omni-VII 11769 tubes. I got the Mod3b with the intent to split up and bridge with an iRay MH25. I tried and tried to make it work but just couldn't get there. I traded that off for a Coti to mount to the RNVGs and couldn't be happier! Do you find the RNVG’s cumbersome to adjust? The housing seems like a good value prop They are not cumbersome to adjust at all. Dial them in with the pupilary distance and ocular focus and you're good to go. Basically a set and forget. The infinity focus is easy enough. |
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[#17]
Quoted: That’s a ton of coyotes to kill in 1 year. I’m only looking to keep them from killing my chickens. I think my budget is going to limit me from doing both. I’ve read a lot of mixed reviews about the DBAL, namely not holding zero. Some people get great units, others get trash. To my knowledge the MAWL, at twice the price, doesn’t have any known issues. But that step up sort of forces me into a single PVS-14 and no thermal for the next year or so. I might need more budget. Holy crap this stuff is expensive View Quote The MAWL is not without problems either. On the DBALs, I've never had an issue losing zero with the old 9007s and the D2. Have one A3 that seemed to be a PITA to zero at the onset though. |
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[#18]
Quoted: Interesting, I’ve not heard of JRH before and I’ve been looking into this for a couple months now. How reputable are they for repairs/CS? I did stumble on the Jerry-C today, it honestly seems better than an e-coti, but with all the China concerns lately I’m hesitant on that product, even though it seems better and cheaper. View Quote HIGHLY vouch for the man and his business practices. Robert is rock solid. |
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[#19]
OP,
Have you made any decision as to what you are going to do? I am in the same boat. Looking for NV, but also want thermal. What is better to have Bino NV or 2 thermal devices (clip on and or scope)? Ecoti or Bridge a thermal with PVS14? |
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[#20]
Quoted: OP, Have you made any decision as to what you are going to do? I am in the same boat. Looking for NV, but also want thermal. What is better to have Bino NV or 2 thermal devices (clip on and or scope)? Ecoti or Bridge a thermal with PVS14? View Quote I recommend reading the threads above because the answers you'll receive will be nearly identical. With that said, your budget and use case will dictate the best recommendation for YOU. Also bear in mind that as you gain more experience using your gear, you may change your mind in terms of which gear suits your needs. Feel free to shoot me a PM or give me a ring. Phone is better because we can cover more info more quickly. |
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[#21]
With everything you are wanting to do, I would recommend going this route to get your feet wet.
Helmet setup with a L3Harris PVS-14 White Phosphor Milspec or Commercial Spec. The Commercial Spec will save you around $600. Get the mounting hardware, Wilcox L4 G24, Wilcox Bridge, and shoe kit for you PVS-14. Then I would get the Rl25 Micro so you can mount that on the bridge opposite of the PVS-14 and be able to scan at night with thermal. The RL25 can be used as a helmet mounted thermal monocular and a dedicated thermal rifle scope. You would need to get the pictail mount and the ADM MQD mount. That way you can remove the RL25 from the bridge and attach it to the MQD mount that stays on the rifle. It's not 100% ideal spotting a coyote with your helmet mounted thermal then removing it from your helmet and attaching it to your rifle, but it will get you started. You will have a solid helmet setup with a PVS-14 and RL25 if you ever want to upgrade to a dedicated thermal scope down the road. That will keep you well below your 10k budget. |
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