I just broke into the night vision world and picked up my first gen 3 PVS-14. I went against most advice I've seen here and found one on Ebay for $2300. It seems to be like new, no wear on it, and a tube with no blems. I have some questions on the spec sheet that I hope some of the experts here can answer. Here are the numbers:

PR: 1444
HALO: 0.93
EBI: 0.91
Res: 64
FOM: 1420.8
SNR: 22.2

What I'm looking at is the lower PR and FOM. The other specs (HALO, EBI, Res) seem great. From what I can tell I got an "OK" deal but probably could have found a higher spec tube for less with enough looking around. Honestly, I'm really happy with the tube, the image is very clear and looks about like what I've seen in the Army. I can walk around in the woods on a cloudy night without IR with no problem. My question is about those below average numbers. From what I understand, this means that in an environment with very little ambient light, I might have to use IR a little sooner a higher spec unit would. Is this correct? Any idea how significant the difference is in the real world?

eBay unit? How sure are you that this is gen 3? The specs are within gen 3 range but not by a lot. What kind of tube is in your unit? If the vendor didn’t say, we can coach you through unscrewing the ocular lens assembly to show the tube and it’s ID markings.

As long as you like it, it's fine.

It's below min specs (Omni VIII anyway) as far as SNR goes, with minimum of 24. I'd have probably listened to advice here, though. I just sold two PVS14s here within the last two weeks that had better specs and I sold them for less than you paid.

FWIW - here are the two tubes I just sold HERE so you can compare specs.

Exelis tube F9815SLG according to the spec sheet. It is an OPMOD unit that used to be sold by Optics Planet.

I was actually looking at those but had already put my bid in on ebay before I saw them! I ended up winning so there was no turning back, oh well. I've seen a few come up since, so yeah it looks like I could have gotten a better deal if didn't let my impulsiveness get hold of me. Without having another higher spec tube on hand for camparison, it seems to be pretty decent. I'm just wondering if there will be a significant loss of performance in the real world when compared to a more average spec tube.

You'll need to use additional IR a lot with this tube. I had a L3 GP tube with these specs 1344 FOM tube (64 res & 21 snr), photocathode sensitivity/response 2143, and EBI 1.4. With ambient light it worked really well but when it got dark it struggled pretty hard. What's going to hurt you the most is the photocathode being 1444.

Did you request an eval period, most of the times you can get a period of time to check them out. Maybe try to contact the seller and say your not happy, they may take them back but you will be out shipping.

I just bought 2 used pvs14 with blem free omni VII tubes for 2500. I would try to return it.

edit where in PA are you? As I would be interested in comparing mine and yours

That gives some good perspective. It does great outdoors and in a room with a little ambient light, but in a dark room of my basement with just starlight shining in a small window, it needs the IR. I just wasn't sure if a tube with even average numbers would make a huge difference in this area. It sounds like it does make a big difference.

No eval period. Honestly, I wouldn't feel right about sending it back anyways. The seller posted the spec sheet fair and square, so if anything its my fault for not researching more of what these numbers meant before placing a bid. I may end up reselling it down the road and hopefully recoup some of the money before upgrading to a better tube, but maybe I'll hang onto it for a bit since it works well outdoors. I'm in the Scranton area, I'd be interested in a comparison as well if your nearby.

Edit: I see you're in MD now, that might be a bit of a stretch!

It seems like a solid unit. The EBI is a bit higher than I'd want for that SNR, but it should totally be usable. I don't think you'll need additional IR under normal usage.

Basement with zero ambient light is a good test for how good your tube actually is (or isn't). Any tube I've used has struggled in this scenario as they amplify ambient light. If there is little to no light to amplify, they struggle. My filmless tubes would perform better than your tube in this environment, but we're talking barely seeing shadowy blob vs seeing an indistinguishable shadowy blob. A great example of this is some of the original TNVC tube testing pictures. There are slight differences, but in all cases the identification through the tube is less than optimal.

In most cases when it is that dark, you'd want some additional light for positive ID.

This is always a great thread for examples on performance. It would be neat to see an updated version of this that relates to Gen 2+, Modern Photonis Echo/Intens, Gen 3, Gen 3 Gated Green, Gen 3 Gated White (the newer high spec elbit tubes), Gen 3 Filmless Green, Gen 3 Filmless White. This would give buyers a really good opportunity to see what they would be upgrading into.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/-/18-329958/?

Yup Scranton is a little far. I am 20 mins from Gettysburg, but in Maryland.

I should clarify, my comment about needing a lot of IR was to your question about little ambient light compared to a higher spec tube. In dark conditions you will need to use IR a lot more compared to a tube with higher photocathode & snr #'s.

I never liked doing indoor/closet/basement tests. Even on the darkest of nights in the middle of BFE, there's more available light outdoors, which I believe you need to separate the better tubes. Like you said, when there's no light, every tube looks like terrible, and it's harder to spot the little differences. These little differences don't come across on camera but your brain sure can see it and it makes the difference between resolving an image or staring at static.

Actually my tube seems to look better than the night enforcer pictures from that thread. I wonder if they'd be similar images when you account for loss of image quality from the camera lens in those pics. I'm in between right now on keeping it or not. If we're talking about a modest improvement in what you can see with your filmless tube, then I'll probably keep it. Like I said, I am happy with it, but that might be because I don't have a lot of experience with NODs to compare it to. On top of that, I'm planning to pair it with an Atpial-c on my rifle eventually so I'll have a good IR source if I ever need it.

Maybe I'll try to get some pictures through the tube in some different lighting conditions for comparisons sake if anyone's curious.

IMO, for $2,300, I'd return it if you can, and buy a -14 with better specs. Decent ones pop up on the EE for close to or a little more than you paid. Or spend $500-$1,000 more and buy one with a new from the factory tube from a dealer who sells average to excellent specs with up to a 10 year warranty.

A filmless tube with average specs or better will be much more than a modest improvement over what you got.

This.

I sold two last year, Omni VIII with 30 SNR and clean screens for 2k a pop. There are deals to be had on Ebay, that was not it.

He is going to lose about $50-100 returning that on eBay for shipping/insurance, and will have to file an Item Not As Described case (unless it comes with a prepaid label and I think all INAD cases, do now). Plus the seller is going to have to eat the Paypal fees, because Paypal no longer refunds seller fees as part of the refund process (which is completely unfair). The seller can also dispute the return. If you are having issues and second guessing the purchase, you might want to consider contacting the seller and asking for a partial refund, but if the specs were posted with the listing, that isn't really on the seller.

That being said, I think I found the auction and I really question why that PVS-14 is lacking the OPMOD sticker or any sticker at all. Those come branded with stickers as far as I know unless they didn't at that time, but even checking youtube videos from back then - they were all branded OPMOD.

Attached File

I agree, I can't fault the seller at all. I'm not going to screw him just because I should have done this research before placing a bid. That's the auction you found, there is no OPMOD sticker on it. Could have easily peeled off though but don't know why anyone would.

I think I'm going to put it back up for sale and probably take a bit of a loss on it. I'll take your advice and the info from others here and get a better quality one on EE for around 2k. Thanks to everyone for the information that I needed to know to make that decision!

if you can find someone with another pvs14 with known values then compare them - reallife viewing is allways best - then you can decide if it does all you need or if its a long way behind other stuff then change it