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Posted: 4/5/2021 11:51:06 AM EDT
Hey guys i wanna sell my SBR tavor X95, 5.56 and 9mm both barrels are cut to sbr length, but i’m wondering how to go about it the cheapest way possible? Can i write ATF have them remove it, and then remove the barrel from the receiver and ship them as seperate packages to the buyer and if they violate the NFA by reinstalling it before getting a stamp its on them? Or would my only option be P&W a flash can onto the installed barrel and ship it after its removed from the registry?
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 12:21:25 PM EDT
Wouldn't it be a form 4 on their end?
Their ffl holds until clear.

Link Posted: 4/5/2021 3:33:12 PM EDT
Uhhh.  First idea is probably illegal, constructive intent.   It might involve two tax stamps if it is going out of state.  1 f4 to dealer than f4 from dealer to new owner.  Best to just keep it.  Think of NFA stuff besides MGs as stuff you own for life.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 3:45:22 PM EDT
Keep it or find an in-state buyer.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 4:07:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Slimjim:
...i'm wondering how to go about it the cheapest way possible? Can i write ATF have them remove it
View Quote
You can, but that is not necessary (and they won't actually remove it from the NFRTR). Just wait...

...remove the barrel from the receiver and ship them as seperate packages to the buyer and if they violate the NFA by reinstalling it before getting a stamp its on them?
View Quote
Yes, that is an option. I would insist they go to separate addresses (since the receiver has to go to a FFL anyway).

You do not need to notify ATF to do this. You can just do it.

Or would my only option be P&W a flash can onto the installed barrel and ship it after its removed from the registry?
View Quote
That's another option.
Both of the above options are Title I (GCA) transfers.

Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Keep it or find an in-state buyer.
View Quote
Also good options.

In-state transfer as SBR would be one Form 4 directly to the buyer ($200).

Out-of-state transfer as SBR means two Form 4s (and 2x $200=$400).
The SBR wouldn't have to be transferred through a SOT (since it'll be a tax-paid transfer regardless) therefore any FFL in the buyer's state can process the transfer.

I'd list it for sale with options. Ideally you'll find an in-state buyer, but if not then you can open up your market (to other states) and/or lower the price.

Most people won't pay $400 to receive transfer of a SBR with someone else's engraving on it.
Some might pay $200 but the market is limited. (They'll have to be saving a lot versus buying a new one.)

If you end up selling it as a Title I firearm, and there's no chance you'll ever own it again, you may want to send ATF's NFA Branch a letter advising it's been permanently returned to Title I configuration.
The only benefit of such notification is that, if another owner tries to Form 1 it again, they won't run into any complications caused by your existing registration.

Notification is not a requirement, and if you choose to send it I'd definitely wait until after the sale and Title I transfer are completed.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 5:54:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ruger556boy:
Uhhh.  First idea is probably illegal, constructive intent.   It might involve two tax stamps if it is going out of state.  1 f4 to dealer than f4 from dealer to new owner.  Best to just keep it.  Think of NFA stuff besides MGs as stuff you own for life.
View Quote



Even after removed from the registry it needs a stamp going out of state?
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 5:55:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
You can, but that is not necessary (and they won't actually remove it from the NFRTR). Just wait...

Yes, that is an option. I would insist they go to separate addresses (since the receiver has to go to a FFL anyway).

You do not need to notify ATF to do this. You can just do it.

That's another option.
Both of the above options are Title I (GCA) transfers.

Also good options.

In-state transfer as SBR would be one Form 4 directly to the buyer ($200).

Out-of-state transfer as SBR means two Form 4s (and 2x $200=$400).
The SBR wouldn't have to be transferred through a SOT (since it'll be a tax-paid transfer regardless) therefore any FFL in the buyer's state can process the transfer.

I'd list it for sale with options. Ideally you'll find an in-state buyer, but if not then you can open up your market (to other states) and/or lower the price.

Most people won't pay $400 to receive transfer of a SBR with someone else's engraving on it.
Some might pay $200 but the market is limited. (They'll have to be saving a lot versus buying a new one.)

If you end up selling it as a Title I firearm, and there's no chance you'll ever own it again, you may want to send ATF's NFA Branch a letter advising it's been permanently returned to Title I configuration.
The only benefit of such notification is that, if another owner tries to Form 1 it again, they won't run into any complications caused by your existing registration.

Notification is not a requirement, and if you choose to send it I'd definitely wait until after the sale and Title I transfer are completed.
View Quote


See what has me is that when i called the NFA branch of the ATF to ask about selling a SBR they said i had to send them a letter to have it removed. Because i asked what if it was removed from NFA configuration could it be sold as a normal firearm, incase the end buyer is going to form 1 it again.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 6:01:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:



Even after removed from the registry it needs a stamp going out of state?
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Shipping all the parts of an sbr together could be considered illegal because there is intent to make it an SBR.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 6:02:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ruger556boy:

Shipping all the parts of an sbr together could be considered illegal because there is intent to make it an SBR.
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I had always intended to ship them to seperate addresses, much like guys who buy a stock for their AR pistol while waiting on a stamp and keep the stock in a seperate location.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 6:05:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:
Even after removed from the registry it needs a stamp going out of state?
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:
Even after removed from the registry it needs a stamp going out of state?
It only needs an NFA transfer if it's going to be transferred as an NFA (Title II) firearm such as SBR.

If you reconfigure it into a Title I firearm then you can just do a normal (GCA) transfer.
Again, no letter/notice is required to make this happen.

Originally Posted By Slimjim:
See what has me is that when i called the NFA branch of the ATF to ask about selling a SBR they said i had to send them a letter to have it removed. Because i asked what if it was removed from NFA configuration could it be sold as a normal firearm, incase the end buyer is going to form 1 it again.
You're never required to send a letter, but if the new buyer is going to Form 1 then it would be a good idea to send notice before he sends the F1.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 6:34:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
It only needs an NFA transfer if it's going to be transferred as an NFA (Title II) firearm such as SBR.

If you reconfigure it into a Title I firearm then you can just do a normal (GCA) transfer.
Again, no letter/notice is required to make this happen.

You're never required to send a letter, but if the new buyer is going to Form 1 then it would be a good idea to send notice before he sends the F1.
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Originally Posted By Slimjim:
Even after removed from the registry it needs a stamp going out of state?
It only needs an NFA transfer if it's going to be transferred as an NFA (Title II) firearm such as SBR.

If you reconfigure it into a Title I firearm then you can just do a normal (GCA) transfer.
Again, no letter/notice is required to make this happen.

Originally Posted By Slimjim:
See what has me is that when i called the NFA branch of the ATF to ask about selling a SBR they said i had to send them a letter to have it removed. Because i asked what if it was removed from NFA configuration could it be sold as a normal firearm, incase the end buyer is going to form 1 it again.
You're never required to send a letter, but if the new buyer is going to Form 1 then it would be a good idea to send notice before he sends the F1.


This.

As far as intent it's OK to intend to stamp a SBR.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 6:45:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By King_Mud:


This.

As far as intent it's OK to intend to stamp a SBR.
View Quote


That’s not how “intent” works in this context.
Link Posted: 4/8/2021 2:52:27 AM EDT
If you live in a state where there is a decent NFA market, would first try to sell as an NFA item.

Otherwise, buy a legal 16" bbl if available and sell the barrels to others who want to make an SBR.  Or maybe you trade them your SBR length barrel for their 16" bbl.

I would not mail to two different addresses.  If the guy gets caught with an unregistered barrel, guess who he is going to turn in to make a deal with LE.
Link Posted: 4/8/2021 3:03:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2021 9:43:12 PM EDT by KitBuilder]
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Originally Posted By Quake_Guy:
I would not mail to two different addresses.  If the guy gets caught with an unregistered barrel SBR, guess who he is going to turn in to make a deal with LE.
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Turn him in for what?
That's not how this works.
Link Posted: 4/8/2021 6:53:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Turn him in for what?
That's not how this works.
View Quote


meant to say unregistered SBR...  we live in a world where a plastic stock is a machine gun.  Don't expect me to have the imagination of a prosecuting DA.  Expect him to lean into some guy that has an unregistered SBR and dream of a second guy he can charge, even better if across state lines.   Oh you mailed the barrel to a different addresses, another charge with intent to evade another made up charge.

He will bill you as some major gun runner, you might not go to jail, but $40k in defense fees will leave a dent.
Link Posted: 4/28/2021 9:35:47 PM EDT
Buy a 16” barrel and sell it that way

Sell 13” barrel separately later on
Link Posted: 4/28/2021 10:31:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Quake_Guy:
meant to say unregistered SBR...  we live in a world where a plastic stock is a machine gun.
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Originally Posted By Quake_Guy:
meant to say unregistered SBR...  we live in a world where a plastic stock is a machine gun.
Edited...

Many unusual objects (shoe string) were MGs, even before Trump and the NRA got involved.
But this thread is about SBRs and Title I firearms.

Don't expect me to have the imagination of a prosecuting DA.  Expect him to lean into some guy that has an unregistered SBR and dream of a second guy he can charge, even better if across state lines.
Please stop imagining insane hypothetical DAs.

Allow me to depict how this would play out in the real world...


Even if there were some state/local law against SBR possession, they couldn't get a chargeable offense out of the above scenario anyway. With 2 separate shipments, there wouldn't even be "constructive possession". Any such possession would be the receiver's problem in any case, not the sender's. The sender/seller can lawfully possess the parts as a SBR now, and he can split them up into a non-SBR prior to shipment if he wants.

Oh you mailed the barrel to a different addresses, another charge with intent to evade another made up charge.
Following the law is "intent to evade" the law?
No.

He will bill you as some major gun runner, you might not go to jail, but $40k in defense fees will leave a dent.
What some crazy DA tries to do in another state is irrelevant if he cannot establish jurisdiction.
Can you cite even 1 case where something like you're describing has occurred?

Please don't give advice if you don't know what you're talking about.
Link Posted: 4/30/2021 10:30:13 PM EDT
Disassemble, sell separate. No tax.
Disassemble, install 16" barrell. No tax.
P&W to make 16. No tax.
Sell in state as SBR, $200.
Sell out of state, $200 to Form 4 to their dealer, $200 for their dealer to Form 4 to them.

I would pick option 2 or 3 as those will net you the most money, with the current panic you will be able to make back the tax stamp and work easily.
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